Leaf_It
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- May 17, 2015
- Messages
- 54
Southern Australia has banned Hero, and as I'm sure most of you are aware, many more are asking for it to happen elsewhere. What I want to know is, what are the minimum changes that can be made to address the concerns people have for this character? Sakurai is not just going to rework him entirely, that's never happened in any smash game, and he'll likely just ignore us if that's the solution put forth. For those that like Hero, and don't think he needs to be banned, that's fine, but this thread's purpose is to explore what could be changed to please most of the naysayers.
The first thing I want to say here is, Sakurai isn't going to outright remove anything, no matter how much some of you may want him to.
Lets go over the big issues I've seen recently online:
• Language barrier: When in Tournament with players from other countries, they will not be able to read the spell selection if they cannot read the same language.
• Random Critical hits: The ~10% chance that any smash/tilt/jab/ariel will deal 1.5% more damage+knock back than usual.
• Kamikaze/Magic Burst edge guards: Both Kamikaze and Magic Burst can be searched when the opponent is off stage, and guarantee a kill if they are above ~40%.
• Whack/Thwack: These spells have a chance to instantly kill at any percentage, though the chances are lower, depending on how low your percent is.
• Hocus Pocus: The (extremely low) chance to pull out an invulnerability star, giant mushroom, or invisibility, giving a huge advantage for the next 10 seconds.
• General RNG aspect of Hero's design: Mostly directed at the random selection of spells on Down special, but also about his random critical hits.
With these 6 issues (yes there are more but I will be focusing on these for now) laid out, I'm going to present my potntial solutions for each of these.
Language Barrier. Each spell should have a symbol created specifically for it. The spells will still be spelled out, but the symbols will be the same no matter the language, so someone from japan playing with an English player will still know what spells are being used. This will also make it easier to see what spell the hero is using at a glance, without needing to read anything, which will make it easier for children who haven't learned how to read yet. After looking around, I'm not the first to think of this, which is good, because it means Sakurai himself might think of it on his own, and implement it.
Random Critical hits. My solution is to keep knock back the same regardless of critical hits. The Critical hit will add the damage, but the player hit will fly as though they had not been hit by a critical hit. The random chance stays in, but it doesn't randomly end stocks immediately. Again, as I said above, the critical hits have to stay, or the solution will never be accepted.
Kamikaze edge guards. The only major change that I think needs to be made, is that it ignores shield. Stop it from ignoring shield, and it's fine. Sure it will almost definitely break the shield, and Hero can try to quickly run up with his new stock and get a free forward smash, but it lets the opponent have a have a chance. It is a guaranteed loss of hero's stock, so it needs to be powerful. In many ways, it is the same as Ganon side special when off stage, and there are several other characters that have a similar mechanic on one of their specials, or on back throw next to ledge.
Magic Burst edge guards. My solution is to slow the start up time after choosing the spell before it actually comes out, and increase the speed at which the blast hits, expands, and ends. Make it a riskier option, that requires timing. If you use it too soon, you have lost all MP, and can be easily punished without a recovery, if you use it too late, the opponent has more opportunity to hit you out of it. Some general information of how Magic Burst works; Magic Burst will be canceled if hero is hit while doing it, and this will cost him all MP no matter what, so if your character has a projectile, you can prevent this, but if you don't have anything to fire off at hero, then you are out of luck. Magic Burst covers a large area, the size of which is affected by Hero's current MP, and the damage is affected by his current damage percentage. It is a lingering hitbox similar to the Smart Bomb item. The lingering hitbox is what makes this so harsh, if it is well timed, you won't be able to delay long enough, or recover soon enough to avoid getting hit by it, and ledge invulnerability doesn't last long enough to save you unless Hero has very low MP. Magic Burst does not ignore shield, but it hits so many times that unless Hero has low MP, and/or you have a full sheild, it will break it, and you will get hit, though not as much as you otherwise would.
Whack/Thwack. My solution is make it a bit like Zelda's Final Smash. Zelda's Final Smash, for those that don't know, sucks you into a Tri-force black hole, dealing damage similar to Magic Burst, and then if you are above 120% at the end, it instantly kills you. (I think it's 120%, I could be wrong, whatever % it is, the point is that it only kills if you exceed that Percentage.) So, Let Whack/Thwack deal an amount of damage, and if it puts you above 130%, then it will instantly kill, otherwise give it forward tilt knock back. They will still keep their chances to whiff, dealing 2% damage, and ~Falco lazer flinching. This allows it to be balanced further by how much damage it deals, and by how high your percentage needs to be, for it to kill instantly. Lets initially put Whack at 35% damage in 1v1, and Thwack at 50% in a 1v1. Those are still big numbers, but remember that they have a higher chance to whiff, the lower your percentage is, and remember that they need to represent the spell from Dragon quest, where they will instantly kill. The Reason I have chosen to add the forward tilt knock back when it doesn't kill, is because it is still dealing a lot of damage, and it should feel like it has something behind that damage when it isn't instantly killing anyone.
Hocus Pocus. I'm going to be honest here, I don't have a solution here, because I don't think that this one is nearly as big of an issue as it has been made out to be. Hocus Pocus has the lowest chance of any spell to appear, and then the chances of pulling the 3 actually powerful effects (invulnerability star, giant mushroom, or invisibility) are around 6%. Invulnerability star is the same as when anyone respawns, but lasts 10 seconds instead of 2. Giant Mushroom slows Hero down, making it easier to avoid him, and slowing his already slow normals even more. Invisibility still shows particle effects from Oomph, Phyche Up, Bounce, Accelerate, charging neutral special, and any kind of movement, making it possible to have a general idea of where they are at almost all times. Just camp them out in the same way you would someone who was was at 0%, when you are at 200%+, and literally anything will kill you.
General RNG aspect of Hero's design. Honestly I think the main issue that people have with this is that the good things Hero can get from his RNG are REALLY good. Instantly killing with Whack. Getting a Giant mushroom and guaranteeing a kill from forward smash. Undodgeable edge guards with Magic Burst. Getting a Critical hit on a smash attack. All of this will be alleviated to some degree with the above suggestions are implemented. Game & Watch's Judge hammer isn't getting him banned. Luigi Misfire (which is almost identical to random Crits) isn't getting him banned either. Tone back the really powerful stuff, and everyone will be more willing to accept the Hero's more average RNG.
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Is there anything you think I'm wrong about, or could be better implemented? Lets talk about it. Feel free to give any feedback you have.
The first thing I want to say here is, Sakurai isn't going to outright remove anything, no matter how much some of you may want him to.
Lets go over the big issues I've seen recently online:
• Language barrier: When in Tournament with players from other countries, they will not be able to read the spell selection if they cannot read the same language.
• Random Critical hits: The ~10% chance that any smash/tilt/jab/ariel will deal 1.5% more damage+knock back than usual.
• Kamikaze/Magic Burst edge guards: Both Kamikaze and Magic Burst can be searched when the opponent is off stage, and guarantee a kill if they are above ~40%.
• Whack/Thwack: These spells have a chance to instantly kill at any percentage, though the chances are lower, depending on how low your percent is.
• Hocus Pocus: The (extremely low) chance to pull out an invulnerability star, giant mushroom, or invisibility, giving a huge advantage for the next 10 seconds.
• General RNG aspect of Hero's design: Mostly directed at the random selection of spells on Down special, but also about his random critical hits.
With these 6 issues (yes there are more but I will be focusing on these for now) laid out, I'm going to present my potntial solutions for each of these.
Language Barrier. Each spell should have a symbol created specifically for it. The spells will still be spelled out, but the symbols will be the same no matter the language, so someone from japan playing with an English player will still know what spells are being used. This will also make it easier to see what spell the hero is using at a glance, without needing to read anything, which will make it easier for children who haven't learned how to read yet. After looking around, I'm not the first to think of this, which is good, because it means Sakurai himself might think of it on his own, and implement it.
Random Critical hits. My solution is to keep knock back the same regardless of critical hits. The Critical hit will add the damage, but the player hit will fly as though they had not been hit by a critical hit. The random chance stays in, but it doesn't randomly end stocks immediately. Again, as I said above, the critical hits have to stay, or the solution will never be accepted.
Kamikaze edge guards. The only major change that I think needs to be made, is that it ignores shield. Stop it from ignoring shield, and it's fine. Sure it will almost definitely break the shield, and Hero can try to quickly run up with his new stock and get a free forward smash, but it lets the opponent have a have a chance. It is a guaranteed loss of hero's stock, so it needs to be powerful. In many ways, it is the same as Ganon side special when off stage, and there are several other characters that have a similar mechanic on one of their specials, or on back throw next to ledge.
Magic Burst edge guards. My solution is to slow the start up time after choosing the spell before it actually comes out, and increase the speed at which the blast hits, expands, and ends. Make it a riskier option, that requires timing. If you use it too soon, you have lost all MP, and can be easily punished without a recovery, if you use it too late, the opponent has more opportunity to hit you out of it. Some general information of how Magic Burst works; Magic Burst will be canceled if hero is hit while doing it, and this will cost him all MP no matter what, so if your character has a projectile, you can prevent this, but if you don't have anything to fire off at hero, then you are out of luck. Magic Burst covers a large area, the size of which is affected by Hero's current MP, and the damage is affected by his current damage percentage. It is a lingering hitbox similar to the Smart Bomb item. The lingering hitbox is what makes this so harsh, if it is well timed, you won't be able to delay long enough, or recover soon enough to avoid getting hit by it, and ledge invulnerability doesn't last long enough to save you unless Hero has very low MP. Magic Burst does not ignore shield, but it hits so many times that unless Hero has low MP, and/or you have a full sheild, it will break it, and you will get hit, though not as much as you otherwise would.
Whack/Thwack. My solution is make it a bit like Zelda's Final Smash. Zelda's Final Smash, for those that don't know, sucks you into a Tri-force black hole, dealing damage similar to Magic Burst, and then if you are above 120% at the end, it instantly kills you. (I think it's 120%, I could be wrong, whatever % it is, the point is that it only kills if you exceed that Percentage.) So, Let Whack/Thwack deal an amount of damage, and if it puts you above 130%, then it will instantly kill, otherwise give it forward tilt knock back. They will still keep their chances to whiff, dealing 2% damage, and ~Falco lazer flinching. This allows it to be balanced further by how much damage it deals, and by how high your percentage needs to be, for it to kill instantly. Lets initially put Whack at 35% damage in 1v1, and Thwack at 50% in a 1v1. Those are still big numbers, but remember that they have a higher chance to whiff, the lower your percentage is, and remember that they need to represent the spell from Dragon quest, where they will instantly kill. The Reason I have chosen to add the forward tilt knock back when it doesn't kill, is because it is still dealing a lot of damage, and it should feel like it has something behind that damage when it isn't instantly killing anyone.
Hocus Pocus. I'm going to be honest here, I don't have a solution here, because I don't think that this one is nearly as big of an issue as it has been made out to be. Hocus Pocus has the lowest chance of any spell to appear, and then the chances of pulling the 3 actually powerful effects (invulnerability star, giant mushroom, or invisibility) are around 6%. Invulnerability star is the same as when anyone respawns, but lasts 10 seconds instead of 2. Giant Mushroom slows Hero down, making it easier to avoid him, and slowing his already slow normals even more. Invisibility still shows particle effects from Oomph, Phyche Up, Bounce, Accelerate, charging neutral special, and any kind of movement, making it possible to have a general idea of where they are at almost all times. Just camp them out in the same way you would someone who was was at 0%, when you are at 200%+, and literally anything will kill you.
General RNG aspect of Hero's design. Honestly I think the main issue that people have with this is that the good things Hero can get from his RNG are REALLY good. Instantly killing with Whack. Getting a Giant mushroom and guaranteeing a kill from forward smash. Undodgeable edge guards with Magic Burst. Getting a Critical hit on a smash attack. All of this will be alleviated to some degree with the above suggestions are implemented. Game & Watch's Judge hammer isn't getting him banned. Luigi Misfire (which is almost identical to random Crits) isn't getting him banned either. Tone back the really powerful stuff, and everyone will be more willing to accept the Hero's more average RNG.
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Is there anything you think I'm wrong about, or could be better implemented? Lets talk about it. Feel free to give any feedback you have.