TLGD: Zange-chan Social- Toon Goons for Life

[Death Arcana]

i took X to game 3 in tourney!!!
Get at me!!

 

[NH Cody]

Good job.

Jash, I think we'd all appreciate your input towards MU ratios.

The more the merrier ;D

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

I've heard that philly is like, really really bad, except for MIB, Chibo and Vex.

Isn't KingToon from there?

 

[Bilbo Sandbaggins]

Are you guys interested in the ratio for each matchup for Toon Link in MY opinion? If not it's ok I'll leave lol.

Yes sir we would.

and imo tl+mk is the best team mk dthrow to tl dair works everytime =]

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

I've heard that philly is like, really really bad, except for MIB, Chibo and Vex.

Isn't KingToon from there?

He is.

Are you guys interested in the ratio for each matchup for Toon Link in MY opinion? If not it's ok I'll leave lol.

I am. It's better then not having data for some matchups.

 

[bobtheknight]

I team with a player who uses Wolf and ZSS. I find that Wolf is great because of the killing power and he can stock tank. ZSS not so good, fills a similar role in 2v2s.

 

[CTX]

as far as good team partners for tl. i think teamin with a snake suits us best. he takes care of wat we cant and thats killing.

This. Plus, its mass chaos on screen

 

[Jash]

Alright this is what I think MU ratio wise:

Metaknight: ??
Snake: 55/45 - Snake
Diddy Kong: 55/45 - Toon Link
Falco: 50/50
Ice Climbers: 55/45 - Toon Link
Marth: 50-50
Wario: 50-50
King Dedede: 55-45 - Toon Link
Pikachu: 55-45 - Toon Link
Olimar: 55-45 - Toon Link
Lucario: 50-50
Mr Game and Watch: 55-45 - Toon Link
Pit: 50-50
Toon Link: 100-0 - Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus: 55-45 - Toon Link
Kirby: 60-40 - Toon Link
R.O.B: 55-45 - Toon Link
Donkey Kong: 55-45 - Toon Link
Peach: 55-45 - Toon Link
Fox: 50-50
Luigi: 60-40 - Toon Link
Wolf: 55 - 45 - Toon Link
Sheik: 55 - 45 - Toon Link
Squirtle: 50-50
Ivysaur: 55-45 - Toon Link
Charizard: 60-40 - Toon Link
Sonic: 60-40 - Toon Link
Ness: 60-40 - Toon Link
Bowser: 60-40 - Toon Link
Lucas: 55-45 - Toon Link
Ike: 70-30 - Toon Link
Yoshi: 60-40 - Toon Link
Mario: 60-40 - Toon Link
Captain Falcon: 60-40 - Toon Link
Samus: 60-40 - Toon Link
Jigglypuff: 60-40 - Toon Link
Zelda: 70-30 - Toon Link
Link: 60-40 - Toon Link
Ganondorf - 70-30 - Toon Link

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[WindMajor]

So much Toon Link.... O_O

 

[Kaffei]

Why does MK vs TL have ??

 

[Jash]

Why does MK vs TL have ??

I haven't practiced the MU enough to be accurate with it and say its so and so.

 

[CTX]

Its like toon link is the 3rd best character in the game..easily...

I'm sorry about i completely disagree on a couple of these.

Snake and Olimar to be specific.

Yes we can outcamp snake...to a point. After a certain point camping swings into Snakes favor, for the simple fact that he can kill with his camp game and we can't. We have to go in for the kill and that is very much in Snakes advantage.

Olimar...I will say that I don't think this is as bad as originally thought. I think that the jab is a great thing to use in this fight for simple fact that Olimar has ZERO grab armor (which is something I don't think people realize). But the very fact that he can render our biggest strength to a zero with proper usage of pikmin (making our own bombs explode on us) and the fact he has a ridiculous grab game that can kill when our best camping tool is taken away, combined with Olimars good camp game and ability to punish our lack of range in melee attacks makes me believe that this is slightly in Olimars advantage. Only slightly because of olimars horrible recovery.

I would also venture to say that Marth isn't even, as I would also think that dedede is even at best.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Alright this is what I think MU ratio wise:

Metaknight: ??
Snake: 55/45 - Snake
Diddy Kong: 55/45 - Toon Link
Falco: 50/50
Ice Climbers: 55/45 - Toon Link
Marth: 50-50
Wario: 50-50
King Dedede: 55-45 - Toon Link
Pikachu: 55-45 - Toon Link
Olimar: 55-45 - Toon Link
Lucario: 50-50
Mr Game and Watch: 55-45 - Toon Link
Pit: 50-50
Toon Link: 100-0 - Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus: 55-45 - Toon Link
Kirby: 60-40 - Toon Link
R.O.B: 55-45 - Toon Link
Donkey Kong: 55-45 - Toon Link
Peach: 55-45 - Toon Link
Fox: 50-50
Luigi: 60-40 - Toon Link
Wolf: 55 - 45 - Toon Link
Sheik: 55 - 45 - Toon Link
Squirtle: 50-50
Ivysaur: 55-45 - Toon Link
Charizard: 60-40 - Toon Link
Sonic: 60-40 - Toon Link
Ness: 60-40 - Toon Link
Bowser: 60-40 - Toon Link
Lucas: 55-45 - Toon Link
Ike: 70-30 - Toon Link
Yoshi: 60-40 - Toon Link
Mario: 60-40 - Toon Link
Captain Falcon: 60-40 - Toon Link
Samus: 60-40 - Toon Link
Jigglypuff: 60-40 - Toon Link
Zelda: 70-30 - Toon Link
Link: 60-40 - Toon Link
Ganondorf - 70-30 - Toon Link

If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Toon Link has to have more worse matchups. Otherwise, he'd be second to meta knight.

 

[Jash]

Its like toon link is the 3rd best character in the game..easily...

I'm sorry about i completely disagree on a couple of these.

Snake and Olimar to be specific.

Yes we can outcamp snake...to a point. After a certain point camping swings into Snakes favor, for the simple fact that he can kill with his camp game and we can't. We have to go in for the kill and that is very much in Snakes advantage.

Well that's why I put it in Snakes advantage, it is hard to kill Snake, it is hard to camp Snake, but it isn't that hard to rack up damage on Snake. Toon Link pressures him too hard (when he's in the air) which is the only reason I think it's 55/45 - Snake.

Olimar...I will say that I don't think this is as bad as originally thought. I think that the jab is a great thing to use in this fight for simple fact that Olimar has ZERO grab armor (which is something I don't think people realize). But the very fact that he can render our biggest strength to a zero with proper usage of pikmin (making our own bombs explode on us) and the fact he has a ridiculous grab game that can kill when our best camping tool is taken away, combined with Olimars good camp game and ability to punish our lack of range in melee attacks makes me believe that this is slightly in Olimars advantage. Only slightly because of olimars horrible recovery

Firstly, camping IS our biggest strength, but it's not our ONLY strength. We can play all three styles, Close Combat, Mid range and Camping/Spamming. Olimar has only ONE strength and that's camping (grabbing too if you count that as not camping idk lol). We abuse his weaknesses with the strength that we have that he doesn't, and that would definitely be Mid/Close Combat.

I would also venture to say that Marth isn't even, as I would also think that dedede is even at best.

Marth beats our close up and mid range game (we're kind of even mid range thanks to our Zair) but if we camp to a point where Marth has a hard time approaching, we can rack up a lot of damage, damage he can't afford to have because we can kill him faster then he can kill us (excluding tipper Fsmash of course, but that can be avoided easier then our Upsmash). Marth has no camp game while that's what makes Toon Link....Toon Link. However Marths dash speed makes it a bit easy for him to approach but all in all, it seems even.

I was talking to Atomsk about the King Dedede and Toon Link MU and he agrees that a perfect Toon Link will always beat a perfect DDD. Our only downfall in this matchup is "mistakes". By mistakes I would say technical errors or badly spaced moves, this is all technical quality products in this game (it has nothing to do with mentality).

 

[Ojih~Sama]

Jerm says that he agrees with jash's list for the most part. And that he thinks MK is 60-40 Mk, but still winnable. We go even on stage, but we easily lose off stage

 

[Sosuke]

Ivysaur: 55-45 - Toon Link

dude we **** ivy though

 

[Lobos]

a really good ivy doesnt get *****......I would say charizard is the weakest out of the 3

 

[CTX]

a really good ivy doesnt get *****......I would say charizard is the weakest out of the 3

QFT. Ivy may be the most difficult to get down and have confidence in, but he is better than charizard.

Btw, if squirtle didn't have those two character attached to him, I would probably main him

@ Jash =I would just say a lil more in snakes favor than 55:45. My bad on not clarifyin' that

 

[TLMSheikant]

Ill be 21 by pound 5 :D. If a few more smash players from PR are going, Ill definetely be there. And I wont have parent johns :D. :D :D :D.

 

[NH Cody]

I was talking to Atomsk about the King Dedede and Toon Link MU and he agrees that a perfect Toon Link will always beat a perfect DDD. Our only downfall in this matchup is "mistakes". By mistakes I would say technical errors or badly spaced moves, this is all technical quality products in this game (it has nothing to do with mentality).

I think this is very true.

But...do you really think that our only unfavorable matchups are vs MK and Snake?

I've never...even considered that to be the case, but now that I think about it, it very well could be. The fact that TL is mid tier baffles me.

But, the only major difference in what you and I think is the Olimar MU. I strongly believe it is a disadvantage but maybe I'm just used to dealing with him the wrong way.

 

[CTX]

Ill be 21 by pound 5 :D. If a few more smash players from PR are going, Ill definetely be there. And I wont have parent johns :D. :D :D :D.

When is pound 5?

@ ToonySonic=The learning curve for toon link is very steep. Much steeper than a lot of characters. Also our ability to punish mistakes isnt that great, whereas other characters have great means of punishing mistakes at a variety of percents. This is why he is mid tier. Besides, if we are gonna with the "perfect" theory, ice climbers are broken

 

[Mota]

I like Jash's confidence, going into every match believing he has a decent chance of winning, good stuff.

Although diddy, d3, ics should be even at least.

Haha looking at the list, ban MK & TL got this

 

[KT Kasrani]

im even with jash on most of it. ive always though toon link was good on every MU besides snake and meta.

@jash- wat really good falcos do u play? i need some help in that MU.

 

[CTX]

I like Jash's confidence, going into every match believing he has a decent chance of winning, good stuff.

Although diddy, d3, ics should be even at least.

Haha looking at the list, ban MK & TL got this

There is nothing wrong with confidence at all. But, if we are gonna be real, lets be real

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

There is nothing wrong with confidence at all. But, if we are gonna be real, lets be real

What's wrong with some confidence? Scientists have proven it increases your chance of succes more than if you think you're going to lose.

 

[Hyro]

I think the list is pretty good buttt I think D3 has an advantage over us. Go play a good D3 and try to recover. The bair is too good. Eats boomerangs...invincible bair is even worse, no hope to get back. Gimps us + hard to kill. Punishes mistakes a lot more than you do with that chaingrab. I think it's 60-40/55-45 D3.

I used to think we ***** Olimar...and we probably do...but **** that camping really is way too good. You say WE have better mid-range and CQC...but that makes no difference. They don't NEED mid range or CQC. As long as they run away 100% of the time, their hard as **** to beat. An olimar that only throws **** and grabs you. I think a "perfect" Olimar would **** a "perfect" toon link.

Oh and we clearly have the advantage vs. IC's, I say 60-40...you're not gonna get grabbed, just don't touch the ground lol. Toon Links probably the best character for the job against IC's.

Not top tier because...probably because MK has such an advantage over us...and MK's the most commonly used character. So we all get knocked the **** out.

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

Actually, that's what smashwiki says on why toon link is not any higher on the tier list.

 

[CTX]

What's wrong with some confidence? Scientists have proven it increases your chance of succes more than if you think you're going to lose.

That's what im saying. I am all for confidence, but there comes a point when confidence is just being fool-hearty.

 

[MJG]

Yup.

DDD is tough: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0RzP6HeB3o

 

[#HBC | Dark Horse]

That's what im saying. I am all for confidence, but there comes a point when confidence is just being fool-hearty.

Ever heard of the 2004 U.S world series? Miracles can happen. Thinking like that is better than thinking "oh, I'm just going to lose this next one".

 

[Jash]

Well it's my opinion, you either believe in it or not, according to me, this is how the MUs are for Toon Link.

 

[Kaffei]

I haven't practiced the MU enough to be accurate with it and say its so and so.

Jash you should practice a lot with a bunch of MKs so you can **** them

 

[Jash]

Jash you should practice a lot with a bunch of MKs so you can **** them

No one wants to give me MK practice because they "don't want me to win" -.- I forgot who told me that but it got me a bit disappointed in this community, Ah well

 

[WindMajor]

They're holding on to their money to tight, it seems.

At least we know that you got them shaking in their boots.

 

[Sosuke]

the really competitive smash community is pretty terrible, yeah

 

[CTX]

the really competitive smash community is pretty terrible, yeah

I will say that my first major tourney (back when I played marth) was a pretty positive experience. But maybe its that midwest hospitality. Lain was in my pool and after a severe ***-whooping, gave me a bunch of pointers and even offered to give me some friendlies. There were some others in pool that also where pretty helpful (Joker, MetalMusicMan) who did the same.

Even texas, from my one experience with them, was pretty nice. Dojo, hylian, and fogo gave me a number of tips and friendlies, often citing Santi and what he did to be successful.

EDIT: I need to get back into the tourney scene. I havent been to a tourney since no koast (march). Even then I have only been at three tourneys where I have played toon link.

EDIT2: I'm feeling nostalgic. Was toon link everybody's first character? I used to play Marth, and was terrible at it. I developed a bunch of really REALLY bad habits early on that took me so long to get rid of that the only way to get rid of them was to switch characters. I went to link for a little bit and then eventually settled on toon link. I think everybody that played my marth and then played my toon link after I switched that I was miles upon miles better as a result to the switch...

 

[WindMajor]

All the guys here in PR have been really friendly with me. It's just certain people that ruin things for others.

 

[ElDominio]

All the guys here in PR have been really friendly with me. It's just certain people that ruin things for others.

I HATE YOU TWINK!!!!!!! YOUR TL SUCKSSSSSSS
*is negative and makes u cry*

on topic:

yeah... except they all quit

 

[TLMSheikant]

*reserved*

yeah... except they all quit

Not ALL. Dont talk as if everyone quit. It really is not true.

 

[ElDominio]

Not ALL. Dont talk as if everyone quit. It really is not true.

You quit.... I'm all sad n stuff