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Q&A Tips & Answers from a Passing Ninja - Greninja Q&A Thread

Snackss

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I don't see anything to do against Wii Fit Trainer. Greninja's aerials are too slow and you can't risk a down air, yet Wii Fit Trainer is one of the characters who can't be hit by charged Water Shuriken, so they can camp the ledge all day. It seems to be a popular strategy to simply not come on stage as Wii Fit Trainer and camp the ledge all day with soccer balls, and Greninja really can't do anything about it with his slow down smash.
 
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Plague_2

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I don't see anything to do against Wii Fit Trainer. Greninja's aerials are too slow and you can't risk a down air, yet Wii Fit Trainer is one of the characters who can't be hit by charged Water Shuriken, so they can camp the ledge all day. It seems to be a popular strategy to simply not come on stage as Wii Fit Trainer and camp the ledge all day with soccer balls, and Greninja really can't do anything about it with his slow down smash.
Hmm... Have you tried bair or hydro pump? They may not end up killing WFT, but it would mess up their positioning fairly consistently, so it would encourage them to stay on stage.
 
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Plague_2

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In my limited time using Customs, I've found Stagnant Shuriken to be very useful in some matchups (typically vs rushdown characters, i.e. Captain Falcon) and seriously messes up some recoveries. Has anyone else done anything significant with this custom?
 

Plague_2

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Quick tip (that's what this thread is for, right?)

If you need to pick an Omega stage, Norfair is a good pick because Shadow Sneak is invisible on that stage.
 

Lavani

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Do Greninja's water sword attacks (up, down, fsmash, fair etc) have disjointed hitboxes?
They do; they aren't a part of Greninja's body.

His tongue is disjointed too, so his utilt has tons of disjoint which, on top of him crouching low to the ground while using it, makes it a stellar anti-air.
 

Plague_2

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I believe the general rule is that just about every move has disjointed hitboxes, the question is how disjointed. And yes, Greninja's water sword is super disjointed.
 

Lawliet626

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i need tips on the peach match up as soon as possibleill be facing a top peach in a tourney in a few hours and id like to have everything down
 

PokemonyeWest

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Random tidbit, but striking with the tip of f-smash will make Marth/Lucina's counters whiff, which you can punish with a dash grab, dash attack
 

Greninja'd

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How do I do footstool > Dair? Everytime I try pulling it off, the character is footstooled but is sent flying when I use Dair to try to lock them in place.
 

Spirst

 
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The spike hitbox is active for 2 frames (17f-19f) so you need to dair as soon as you footstool so the hitbox doesn't connect past frame 19. Otherwise, the launch angle will be at 60 degrees which isn't what you want.
 

Greninja'd

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The spike hitbox is active for 2 frames (17f-19f) so you need to dair as soon as you footstool so the hitbox doesn't connect past frame 19. Otherwise, the launch angle will be at 60 degrees which isn't what you want.
I was watching a combo tutorial and from what I have seen, it looks like as s
The spike hitbox is active for 2 frames (17f-19f) so you need to dair as soon as you footstool so the hitbox doesn't connect past frame 19. Otherwise, the launch angle will be at 60 degrees which isn't what you want.
I tried to immediately dair but after the footstool but once I footstool, he goes into a jump and I'm to fair to do the dair spike.
 

FullMoon

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What characters are Greninja's best doubles partners?
The only one that comes into mind immediatelly is Villager because Pocketed Charged Shurikens are completely ridiculous.

I'm not too into Doubles so I can't offer much help there.

Though Greninja maybe could help characters with worse recoveries recover with smart use of Hydro Pump so maybe Little Mac, Mario, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf could be good partners for him.
 

busken

Smash Ace
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Nov 28, 2014
Messages
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What are Greninja's viable aerial approaches/spacing options?

SH Fair seems to be a good spacing tool. It's disjointed, deals 14% dmg, and has good shield pushback. You need to space it really well though or you'll get shieldgrabbed. This spacing however is only limited to this option because you can't double jumo cross-up and get behind their shield. If you fair and fast fall immediately only the animation will come out which is great for baiting out shield. However, Greninja standing grab is pretty slow and his reward off grab is little, ultimately making his tomahawk grab of little viability. SH Nair is pretty much lagless on landing but it's not safe on shield. I'm pretty sure SH hydro pump can give alot of landing mix-ups too. If you guys any other viable mix-up options of SH please let me know.

What are Greninja's viable grounded spacing options?

The only option that really comes to mind is d-tilt and jab. Greninja's Jab is actually really good as the 3rd hit as much range as f-tilt and his jabs can be interrupted, pretty much outclassing f-tilt. Water Shurkien is good too. Any others you guys can think of?
 
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D

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What are Greninja's viable aerial approaches/spacing options?

SH Fair seems to be a good spacing tool. It's disjointed, deals 14% dmg, and has good shield pushback. You need to space it really well though or you'll get shieldgrabbed. This spacing however is only limited to this option because you can't double jumo cross-up and get behind their shield. If you fair and fast fall immediately only the animation will come out which is great for baiting out shield. However, Greninja standing grab is pretty slow and his reward off grab is little, ultimately making his tomahawk grab of little viability. SH Nair is pretty much lagless on landing but it's not safe on shield. I'm pretty sure SH hydro pump can give alot of landing mix-ups too. If you guys any other viable mix-up options of SH please let me know.

What are Greninja's viable grounded spacing options?

The only option that really comes to mind is d-tilt and jab. Greninja's Jab is actually really good as the 3rd hit as much range as f-tilt and his jabs can be interrupted, pretty much outclassing f-tilt. Water Shurkien is good too. Any others you guys can think of?
To add to your list~
Aerials:
Nair is safer on shield if you cross their shield up with it, although characters like Marth with fast Up Bs OoS can still punish.
Perfectly spaced Bair is safe.
Setting the C-Stick to attack instead of Smash allows you to retreat aerials instead of halting momentum, so Fair becomes much easier to space.

Grounded:
Post patch spaced Ftilt is now safe on shield.
 

busken

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To add to your list~
Aerials:
Nair is safer on shield if you cross their shield up with it, although characters like Marth with fast Up Bs OoS can still punish.
Perfectly spaced Bair is safe.
Setting the C-Stick to attack instead of Smash allows you to retreat aerials instead of halting momentum, so Fair becomes much easier to space.

Grounded:
Post patch spaced Ftilt is now safe on shield.
If your cross-up nair on shield you surrender the ability to combo since you lose crucial spacing. Also, alot of characters have fast up specials. Pac-man, ryu, lucina, and dr.mario just to name a few. Also, F-tilt is to slow to be a viable grounded spacing option.
 
D

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If your cross-up nair on shield you surrender the ability to combo since you lose crucial spacing. Also, alot of characters have fast up specials. Pac-man, ryu, lucina, and dr.mario just to name a few. Also, F-tilt is to slow to be a viable grounded spacing option.
I specifically stated that fast up specials can punish it in my post, did you not read it? And Ftilt got around 7-10 less frames of end lag after the patch so its safe on shield and is an extremely good grounded poke (ex: tip of Greninja's foot on Marth's shield is safe). I'd understand that you still think its slow since nobody ever used it pre patch.
 

Snackss

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Why would doing a crossup lose the ability to combo? All you have to do is turn around, it still combos into forward smash at low percent or up smash at higher.
 

TheRealDonquavious

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I recently switched from maining Cpt. Falcon to Greninja. The transition was not smooth, but I am finally comfortable with the frog as my main. However, one thing that I feel I really need to improve on is baiting. In short, how should I be baiting and what are general tips on baiting with Greninja?
 

Makani

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I recently switched from maining Cpt. Falcon to Greninja. The transition was not smooth, but I am finally comfortable with the frog as my main. However, one thing that I feel I really need to improve on is baiting. In short, how should I be baiting and what are general tips on baiting with Greninja?
Constantly SHFF, horizontal Hydro pump away from your opponent hitting them with the water, if you're near an edge run off and rising BAir back on stage if they try to follow you off stage, throw a moderate amount of shurikens if you're a decent enough distance from your opponent, spam the hell out of FTilt (it's so good now).
 
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Pieraite

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So, I've practiced so many Greninja combos. I can do some pretty reliably in training. But how does one "get in" as Greninja? I always get walled out. Not sure if it's because I'm being too reckless, or what. But whenever I try to get something started (mostly with nair) I can never find the perfect moment to strike.
 

MadCanard

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Dec 3, 2014
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I don't see anything to do against Wii Fit Trainer. Greninja's aerials are too slow and you can't risk a down air, yet Wii Fit Trainer is one of the characters who can't be hit by charged Water Shuriken, so they can camp the ledge all day. It seems to be a popular strategy to simply not come on stage as Wii Fit Trainer and camp the ledge all day with soccer balls, and Greninja really can't do anything about it with his slow down smash.
Just substitute the soccer ball and hit Wii Fit Trainer up or if you're feeling daring you can go for down and spike him/her.

Also I'm pretty sure during the pull up animation of WFT's ledge grab she can be hit with charged water shuriken.
 
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Funkermonster

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What are some good situations to use the Dair? I know its got good combo potential and can meteor, but I don't commonly use this move and can't apply its uses well. Something I would like to work into my game and expand my options.

So, I've practiced so many Greninja combos. I can do some pretty reliably in training. But how does one "get in" as Greninja? I always get walled out. Not sure if it's because I'm being too reckless, or what. But whenever I try to get something started (mostly with nair) I can never find the perfect moment to strike.
How to "get in" as Greninja? Pretty simple answer, actually: You don't. Greninja in general, is not very good at approaching with his slow frame data, as many of his moves are too slow to come out and or don't have long lasting hitboxes. It sounds like you're plaing him as a rushdown character, which he isn't really capable of since his approaches aren't really that good unless you are facing characters with bad out of shield options like :4bowserjr:, :4ganondorf:, :4robinm:, or maybe another :4greninja:. Instead of trying to get in, what you should be doing is staying just outside your opponent's range, poking them with shurikens, fair, bair, and dance around them your high mobility until they scream internally and do something stupid. To get around projectiles, simply walk (not dash) towards opponents and powershield them, substitute counter them, or simply avoid them altogether by jumping.

You kind of want to play Greninja like you'd play like our boy :4sonic:, you don't really want to approach opponents, you want to pretend like you're approaching: using your super speed to run circles around your enemies and try to aggravate them into performing a punishable actions, and I personally enjoy both characters for this and I find Sonic the easiest character to compare him to. Their actual ways of directly approaching opponents are pretty bad and they don't have the safest moves like true rushdown characters like Sheik, and such they are not very easy characters to learn, Greninja especially. Like Sonic, Greninja is no rushdown character, but instead a passive aggressive bait and punish character and that's the way he's best played.

If a real rushdown character is what you seek, you might be better off with one of the following than Greninja: :4sheik::4pikachu::4yoshi::4fox::4wario::4ness::4shulk: (only because of Jump and Speed arts), or to an extent :4duckhunt:. If you play with customs on, :4palutena: can also be a rushdown maniac.
 
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Greninja'd

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Ho do I handle the Pikachu matchup? Quick Attack is somewhat overwhelming to me.
 

NocturnalQuill

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I'm a Ness main looking to pick up Greninja as a secondary. Any good guides to get me started?
 

Blaziking17

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Question about the Shadow Sneak Hitstun Cancel: Are you able to do the SS input after you're hit, or do you have to start SS, then get hit?
 

Calvonta

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I know this place is kinda void but,

Was there a discussion on what Greninja's jab can cancel out somewhere? After canceling Falcon's Down b and all of Shulk's smashes with it I'm starting to question what all it can cancel or is that normal in this game?


Edit: Unrelated, hallo I am "lurkgodmaster99" coming from the shadows to obtain the knowledge of the gods
 
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Makani

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I know this place is kinda void but,

Was there a discussion on what Greninja's jab can cancel out somewhere? After canceling Falcon's Down b and all of Shulk's smashes with it I'm starting to question what all it can cancel or is that normal in this game?


Edit: Unrelated, hallo I am "lurkgodmaster99" coming from the shadows to obtain the knowledge of the gods
Cancel like clanking, or cancel like beating it out? It'll beat out alot of stuff but you have to be DIing down and mashing, take a look at some frame data and you'll see what you can by cross referencing the amount of frames hitboxes come out on. As for clanking, things usually clank if they're of equal damage %s if i'm thinking right.
 
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SteadyDisciple

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So, I'm relatively new to playing Greninja, and this is probably a really stupid question, but I need to ask it. Are you not allowed to push people downward with Hydro pump? I have a hard enough time hitting people with it, but when I do I'm usually angling it downwards to help me get back up to the stage and for some reason people tend to go upwards instead.

As a side question, since I'm clearly not doing it right, any suggestions on how to utilize Hydro Pump? I just have such a hard time hitting anything with it that I pretty much never use it except to recover, which is sad.
 

Makani

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Hydro pump pushes up and away at down angles and straight angles at higher %s, it won't spike or anything.

I like to use Hydro pump as a mobility mix up onstage, i'll play keep away for a while and jump then Hydro pump completely horizontally to move away from or towards my opponent. Most of the time I like to rush at people and do a grounded horizontal Hydro pump, 9 times out of 10 it's safe and if they don't shield it it'll push them back while they're in a vulnerable state so you can rush back in and punish.
I also like to stand at the ledge and Hydro pump people that are recovering off the edge pushing them back off stage. Eventually they'll get conditioned to either roll on stage or jump on stage, after that you can just go for an appropriate punish.
 

Snackss

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Hydro Pump people who jump around a lot and they'll fall slowly. Greninja is generally pretty unsafe on the ground but his aerials do solid damage and he has great mobility, so you definitely want people in the air where you can hit them or trick them into making bad landings.
 

ILOVESMASH

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Due to him being a fastfaller, Does Greninja have a bad disadvantageous state?
 

Funkermonster

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How do you perform the footstool combos reliably and are there any good setups for them? I can barely even footstool at all, whenever I try to it rarely ever comes out.
 

BlazeFlipnotes

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Greninja vs ness mu? I know the hydro pump when he is recovering thing but everything else im pretty bad at vs ness
 
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Funkermonster

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Due to him being a fastfaller, Does Greninja have a bad disadvantageous state?
In my opinion, he kinda does.
  • His landing options are pretty lackluster and beaten by almost any anti-air move
  • Being a fast-faller makes him a little easy to combo and he doesn't have the best combo breaking moves or ways to protect himself from being juggled. Shadow Sneak can cancel hitstun and get out of some multi-hit moves, but it has some endlag and if the opponents come out of their animation too quickly they can still punish it.
  • His out of shield options SUCK and this is not a character who enjoys pushing the shield button. Nair Out of Shield? Nope. Usmash Out of Shield? Nu-uh. UpB Out of Shield? Hell no. Shieldgrab? Kinda, but not really, his standing grab takes 14 frames to come out and is around Yoshi levels of bad.
His disadvantage isn't a trainwreck like say, :4rob: (I say so because he too has problems landing back on the ground, is even more susceptible to combos, he isn't very good at melee once opponents get in on him, and his recovery is a little bad), but it ain't good. He's a heavily momentum based character and most of the time you need to have a lead against your opponent and make every move with caution and well-made calculations, lose said momentum and you could fall apart.
 

metroidfan987

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I know the sweetspot of Greninja's U-Smash, but what is the sweetspot of his D-Smash? And does his S-Smash have a sweetspot?
 
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