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Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

IAmMetaKnight

IAmMetaKnight

The Strongest Warrior in the Galaxy
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Wintropy said:
I see where you're coming from, but I don't think you're giving Rool enough credit. His modus operandi is trickery and subverting expectations: he never fights the same way twice and he changes how he fights every game just so you can never get too comfortable fighting him. This a boss that plays dead while fake credits kredits roll over the screen, just to trick you into dropping your guard. This is a boss that opens a fight with kannonballs being fired in increasingly weird patterns, then shifts gears to toxic gas that reverses your controls while he turns invisible and tries to suck you into his gun. This is a boss that changes his size for no evident reason other than to make the fight more exciting, and who then proceeds to throw boxing gloves at you and create shockwaves with his immense girth. This is a boss who dons a different kostume every game without explanation, and who changes shape, size and weaponry as quickly as DK eats bananas. I think you'd have to go out of your way to not make him a dynamic and entertaining fighter.

Even his weaknesses are absurd and disjointed. In the first game, you jump on his head when he throws his krown at you; in the second game, you throw his own kannonballs into his gun so it backfires on him; there's even a game where you have to drop a lighting fixture on his head, crawl into his shoe and tickle his toes, turn giant and beat him senseless and then boot him into the stratosphere with a big boot to the backside.

I think there's plenty of mechanics his style could revolve around, if that's what you really want. How about a zoning and trap-setting playstyle with a bit of aggressive rushdown thrown in there to keep you guessing? What if he controlled the entire stage with traps and structures that his opponent has to navigate just to get to him? Maybe he gets faster and stronger when he takes damage, until he's a speeding bullet of scales and teeth? He could even change his kostumes mid-match to open up new moves and techniques, summon other Kremlings to do his dirty work for him, ride about in vehicles and machines he can create on cue or have an entire custom moveset built into his standard kit. There's a veritable infinity of krocodilian possibilities if you just think about the weird and wonderful things he could do!

I don't mean to turn this into a pro-Rool propaganda message, it's fine with me if you don't think he's interesting or unique enough, I just want to try and expand your horizons a bit by opening up a few ideas that you might not have thought of. I don't know if there's any characters with a realistic chance that could really change the fundamental nature of Smash's metagame, but if that kind of character does exist, K. Rool is probably one of the best options in the running.
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I suppose I can understand where you're coming from. I admit, you make simple "camping" seem like it wouldn't work in a moveset for him.

While I do believe K. Rool is as good a decision as any, I will continue to maintain that he just isn't that great. Simply gaining more stage control seems like an extension or exaggeration of the camping playstyle to me. I'm sure K. Rool could do it in a unique way, but again, simply building more on that style doesn't seem super special to me. Again, it's about as unique as we've seen characters get, but I don't like the notion of expecting a character because he fits within the boundaries of what we already have. I know you think K. Rool could be super unique, but even what you said doesn't seem that much better than what I already believed K. Rool would do.

I'm sure one could think of all sorts of new mechanics for K. Rool to have, but most of the mechanics you brought up seem like either different versions of existing mechanics or are just really farfetched. I do still think K. Rool sorta falls in the Ridley family of characters, not because he's too big, but because many of the unique attributes he could have fall in the "OP" category in my opinion.

I will be happy if he gets in, as I do like him as a character. But he still seems like a somewhat boring decision to me. Especially when you bear in mind how many people expect him. Then again, the Smash Ballot was a popularity poll.
 
~Skelly~

~Skelly~

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Rinku リンク said:
It's not for everyone I understand lol. Thanks for giving it a shot though.
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Izayoi said:
At least not online. Offline it's a fun co-op to play because of the possible shenanigans and the subsequent reactions.
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Bottom line though, as a fun minigame, it gets that right. As a way to improve one's skills, not so much. It's too much of a cluster**** (at least for me) for that. It's probably even more so if you have "that one guy" on your team.

Still, thanks for sharing this game with me. I might play again at some point if you guys are up for it.
 
WindHero

WindHero

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Welp, as far as For Glory goes, the only thing I'm really feeling is the lag.:/

At least I landed an insane, all-or-nothing finishing blow against a Zelda by landing a back-hit Back Slash off-stage. Craziest finisher ever, apart from the time I teched a meteor off the wall of an omega stage.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
link7 said:
Kudos to you for trying to reason with the scrublord known as N.T.A.O Change of Heart. The Link boards became so fed up with his shenanigans that he's been room banned for all eternity.
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lol, you know of that crackpot too? Yeah, he's a hell of a piece of work.
 
Izayoi

Izayoi

zzz
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Skeleton o' Fun said:
Bottom line though, as a fun minigame, it gets that right. As a way to improve one's skills, not so much. It's too much of a cluster**** (at least for me) for that. It's probably even more so if you have "that one guy" on your team.

Still, thanks for sharing this game with me. I might play again at some point if you guys are up for it.
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It's hard to use Journey online to improve one's skills, I agree. However, offline, where your inputs are 100% lagless it does indeed improve your spacing game.
By beating up each other and spacing out attacks you learn the maximum range of your attacks.
Also, it is good synergy practice for doubles.
Rinku リンク Rinku リンク and I are basically in sync when we play Journey, and we've done a duo Journey before. We also participated in a doubles match before and we coordinated our attacks really well.
 
Wintropy

Wintropy

Peace and love and all that jazzmatazz~! <3
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Here, there, who knows?
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TTTTTsd said:
I mean movesets are one thing but can anyone deny the notoriety and character power of K. Rool?

This alone I think is enough, Donkey Kong Country 1 and 2 were both amazing classics and seeing their main villain just be a trophy feels really odd considering he was DK's FIRST RIVAL! It's really important (to me!)
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And he has kick-ass boss music!

Every time I hear "Gangplank Galleon" and "Crocodile Cacophony" - ooh, chills~

IAmMetaKnight said:
I suppose I can understand where you're coming from. I admit, you make simple "camping" seem like it wouldn't work in a moveset for him.

While I do believe K. Rool is as good a decision as any, I will continue to maintain that he just isn't that great. Simply gaining more stage control seems like an extension or exaggeration of the camping playstyle to me. I'm sure K. Rool could do it in a unique way, but again, simply building more on that style doesn't seem super special to me. Again, it's about as unique as we've seen characters get, but I don't like the notion of expecting a character because he fits within the boundaries of what we already have. I know you think K. Rool could be super unique, but even what you said doesn't seem that much better than what I already believed K. Rool would do.

I'm sure one could think of all sorts of new mechanics for K. Rool to have, but most of the mechanics you brought up seem like either different versions of existing mechanics or are just really farfetched. I do still think K. Rool sorta falls in the Ridley family of characters, not because he's too big, but because many of the unique attributes he could have fall in the "OP" category in my opinion.

I will be happy if he gets in, as I do like him as a character. But he still seems like a somewhat boring decision to me. Especially when you bear in mind how many people expect him. Then again, the Smash Ballot was a popularity poll.
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I'm going to be honest here, I think you're asking for the moon.

On the one hand, you say you want a character that's going to change the way we play Smash. That's fine and dandy, it really is, and I respect your desire for something more distinctive than what we currently have, but I think you need to remember one very important thing:

Smash is designed to be a game that anybody can play. Sakurai has said many, many times that that's the founding principle of Smash: it's a game that's easy for people of every skill level to pick up and play, because it's fundamental mechanics remain consistent between characters. You have characters with different playstyles, characters that require more technical knowledge to be adept with, even characters that have their own unique inputs that defy the conventions of Smash's mechanics - yet these characters can still be played with the same intuitive fundamentals as everybody else. A character that totally rejects that in favour of something different may sound great and exciting in theory, but I'd wager it'd be more of a convoluted mess than it'd be worth. The fact that you consider some of the ideas absurd or far-fetched is proof of that: do you really want a character that's designed to be one giant gimmick, rather than a character everybody can play and have fun with? I don't think it's unfair to say the novelty would wear off very quickly.

On the other hand, you seem to be admitting that the kind of character you desire is neither realistic nor, honestly, very desirable. You said you think the moveset concepts I came up with would be "OP" - and guess what? They would be. Very much so. Because if you're trying to go out of your way to design a character that's totally unlike the rest of the roster, who does their own thing that nobody else does, you're not going to have a very fun or well-balanced character. You're going to have a big gimmick of a character that defies convention for the sake of defying convention and breaks the game just because they can. That doesn't sound fun or interesting, that just sounds controversial for its own sake.

It's not realistic to expect something outside what we currently have, because - to be honest - there's only so much you can do in a game of Smash's nature. We have over 50 characters in the roster, and most of the newcomers we have in this game play nothing like each-other. Eventually we're going to reach originality critical mass, where we only consider characters so interesting and diverse that they fundamentally oppose everything Smash stands for, characters that can't even exist in Smash because they're physically impossible to implement whilst maintaining a good and healthy sense of balance.

And yes, he is a boring choice because people expect him. Because people have been "expecting" him for over a decade now, and this is probably the first time in the history of Smash that he's had a good chance of making it in. If he's a boring choice, it's because people went out of their way to demand him so much that it seems absurd to think of him not making it in. By that same token, Sonic and Mega Man were boring choices, Mewtwo was a boring choice, even Meta Knight was a boring choice. There's being creative and unexpected, and there's just denying fan's wishes to be "fun" and "exciting". I don't think that's a good idea, either from a creative perspective or, considering people have to pay for this extra content, a business perspective.

If people expect him this much, then he has every right to get in. Then maybe we can make way for the unexpected choices that people have no distinct emotional investment in or need to be convinced to pay their cash for.
 
D

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Guest
That reminds me,

~Skelly~ ~Skelly~

I feel obligated to whip play you when my semester is over since Rinku リンク Rinku リンク has beaten me to playing Link matches against you.

In an unrelated topic I need a labbing buddy for when Cloud drops, but I don't know if anyone here would be willing to sit and lab out his options/other characters' options against him and some preliminary MU projections (of which I plan to do with members of the Cloud boards for the Link/Cloud MU after the preliminary release period has passed).
 
WindHero

WindHero

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Yeah, I also changed my avatar. Gotta show some luv to the Noragami... [strike]Plus, I'm not laming out with some santa hat pasted on.[/strike]

This is one avatar that would actually lose something by transparency... Usually, I do transparency myself anyway. (GIMP skillz be like...)
 
Rinku リンク

Rinku リンク

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The Soulless One said:
That reminds me,

~Skelly~ ~Skelly~

I feel obligated to whip play you when my semester is over since Rinku リンク Rinku リンク has beaten me to playing Link matches against you.
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My Link sux so you could probably teach him a lot more than I can lol.

WindHero said:
Yeah, I also changed my avatar. Gotta show some luv to the Noragami... [strike]Plus, I'm not laming out with some santa hat pasted on.[/strike]

This is one avatar that would actually lose something by transparency... Usually, I do transparency myself anyway. (GIMP skillz be like...)
Click to expand...
You are officially one of the coolest people in my book. Noragami is hands down of my favorite Animes right now.
 
~Skelly~

~Skelly~

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Almost Certainly Quite So said:
...

*Remembers fsmashing someone and killing them*

*Clears throat* Yeah, they would probably be real burdens, eh?
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Haha. Hey, that only happened once. ONCE.

And I wouldn't point fingers at the guy that can best you 1 on 1. Unless, you can prove me wrong. :smirk:
The Soulless One said:
That reminds me,

~Skelly~ ~Skelly~

I feel obligated to whip play you when my semester is over since Rinku リンク Rinku リンク has beaten me to playing Link matches against you.
Click to expand...
You're on. Let me know when you are up for those matches.
 
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D

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Rinku リンク said:
My Link sux so you could probably teach him a lot more than I can lol.


You are officially one of the coolest people in my book. Noragami is hands down of my favorite Animes right now.
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You are also on my list of people to play.

I need more quality Link ditto experience, even know I typically prefer to run :4mario: for Link anyways.
 
D

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Guest
Guys, you need to hear this

I'm hosting a low-tier tournament for a forum I'm on (you can find the topic here). One of the guys who's participating I fight a fair lot, and he complains:4dedede:shouldn't be in the tournament because "Gordos are impossible to deal with" and because "he's stronger than every other allowed character and has insane range". He complained that my dubs partner @Spinny, who mains :4shulk: shouldn't be in it either because "the arts expand him too much!" and that "his sword is huge as ****".

The guy, who plays :4megaman: proceeds to say he should be in said tourney because he "doesn't have that useful of moves" and is "very hard to use and nobody plays him". I bet you he watched a single video of Mega Man in tournament.
 
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Rinku リンク

Rinku リンク

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The Soulless One said:
You are also on my list of people to play.

I need more quality Link ditto experience, even know I typically prefer to run :4mario: for Link anyways.
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Welp I lose then, I can't handle the ultimate C-stick character.

Feelicks said:
Guys, you need to hear this

I'm hosting a low-tier tournament for a forum I'm on (you can find the topic here). One of the guys who's participating I fight a fair lot, and he complains:4dedede: shouldn't be in the tournament because "Gordos are impossible to deal with" and because "he's stronger than every other allowed character and has insane range". He complained that my dubs partner @Spinny, who mains :4shulk: shouldn't be in it either because "the arts expand him too much!" and that "his sword is huge as ****".

The guy, who plays :4megaman: proceeds to say he should be in said tourney because he "doesn't have that useful of moves" and is "very hard to use and nobody plays him". I bet you he watched a single video of Mega Man in tournament.
Click to expand...
I think I lost a couple brain cells just now.
 
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Izayoi

Izayoi

zzz
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WindHero said:
Yeah, I also changed my avatar. Gotta show some luv to the Noragami... [strike]Plus, I'm not laming out with some santa hat pasted on.[/strike]

This is one avatar that would actually lose something by transparency... Usually, I do transparency myself anyway. (GIMP skillz be like...)
Click to expand...
Noragami
is
my
life.
The anime is amazing, the characters are amazing, the manga is amazing, the story is amazing, THE ART IS AMAZING.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Rinku リンク said:
Welp I lose then, I can't handle the ultimate C-stick character.


I think I lost a couple brain cells just now.
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Key word(s): LINK DITTO.

:upsidedown:

And I don't know where you got the idea that :4mario: was C-stick the character, he's more like D-Throw -> U-tilt, and Up Air the character, lol.

ALSO,

Do you have any recorded matches of your Link? I would be interested to watch them.

Obligatory reminder to Wintropy Wintropy that we also need to play again when I finally get back home. :3
 
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D

Deleted member

Guest
Rinku リンク said:
I think I lost a couple brain cells just now.
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I feel you, lol. Not to mention said person I fight mains :4link: and plays like a carbon copy of an FG Link. Rolls around the stage, keeps bombs in his hand until they explode, does smash attacks whenever you're close and always fires fully charged arrows while near the ledge. I hate fighting scrubs in general lol
 
D

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Guest
Feelicks said:
I feel you, lol. Not to mention said person I fight mains :4link: and plays like a carbon copy of an FG Link. Rolls around the stage, keeps bombs in his hand until they explode, does smash attacks whenever you're close and always fires fully charged arrows while near the ledge. I hate fighting scrubs in general lol
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Give me footage so I can thoroughly judge and ridicule him, pl0x.

FG Links are the reason people think Link is low tier and it makes me rage.

:mad088:
 
Rinku リンク

Rinku リンク

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The Soulless One said:
Key word: LINK DITTO.

:upsidedown:

And I don't know where you got the idea that :4mario: was C-stick the character, he's more like D-Throw -> U-tilt, and Up Air the character, lol.

ALSO,

Do you have any recorded matches of your Link? I would be interested to watch them.
Click to expand...
Ah I see. I don't have any on me personally besides this 1v2 FG (My partner DC'd at the last minute...)
 
~Skelly~

~Skelly~

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Rinku リンク

Rinku リンク

Hero of "Likes"
Joined
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Messages
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Hyrule
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JinnyK
Feelicks said:
I feel you, lol. Not to mention said person I fight mains :4link: and plays like a carbon copy of an FG Link. Rolls around the stage, keeps bombs in his hand until they explode, does smash attacks whenever you're close and always fires fully charged arrows while near the ledge. I hate fighting scrubs in general lol
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This is why us Link mains can't have nice things.

Izayoi said:
A good Link can rekk face and I know it.
...I'm Rinku リンク Rinku リンク 's personal sandbag.
...Or used to.
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And you've improved significantly since then, I'm so proud of you!


Skeleton o' Fun said:
This isn't reassuring...
Alright, give me a moment to set up shop.
Your
avatar
says
otherwise.

On a serious note, I heard Noragami was good, can you give me a brief description of it?
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Welp I've been found out, my lifes over. You can find a synopsis for Noragami here Skelly
http://myanimelist.net/anime/20507/Noragami
 
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