Social "Time to Tip the Scales!" - Robin Social Thread

[Kotor]

Miyamoto being Bowser Jr's Mother has already found its way in fanart.

 

[Avokha]

Miyamoto being Bowser Jr's Mother has already found its way in fanart.

 

[Kotor]

I'm pretty sure Miyamoto meant by saying he was Bowser Jr's mother was that he created Bowser Jr. and so he considers Bowser Jr (and every other character he created) to be his children.

 

[Chapter Serf]

Now let's get down to business, gents.

Spoiler

What's the easiest way to get banned? (just out of curiosity)

Post Sonic OC's
DO IT

NO MORE SONIC OCS!

This has gone on long enough. This is getting tired, played out, and downright disgusting.

Further posting of Sonic OCS will be dealt no mercy. This is a general warning, but also specifically to @Weeman.

NO MORE.

I imagine that despite this ultimatum being 654 pages and 5 months old, it still stands.

Please. Do not make Raziek angry. No Sanic OCs. When Raziek is angry, no one is happy. And puppies and kitties die.

 

[Milo AKA Papa]

./is still lazy about posting and intensely watches thread

She has absolutely nothing remotely good aside from having a better recovery than Marth and Roy.\l

Not to start anything again, but don't Lucina and Marth's dolphin slash go the same distance? Unless Lucina's Blade Dance has some special quality in the air I don't know about.

 

[Chapter Serf]

In other news:

Darth Vadar has taken note of certain discrepancies in the Smash4 Roster.

Go and fix that.

Vote for Isaac from Golden Sun for Smash 4.

 

[Champ Gold]

./is still lazy about posting and intensely watches thread


Not to start anything again, but don't Lucina and Marth's dolphin slash go the same distance? Unless Lucina's Blade Dance has some special quality in the air I don't know about.

I did too until I tested it and Lucina has much better vertical distance than Marth with the Dolphin Slash but doesn't have the kill potential like or the power like Roy's Blazer

 

[FalKoopa]

Good Morning, tacticians. I missed a lot in the last 15 pages... How is everyone? :3

And happy birthday, @Delta Fist!

 

[Zantetsugun]

Good Morning, tacticians. I missed a lot in the last 15 pages... How is everyone? :3

And happy birthday, @Delta Fist!

Heh, your morning is my midnight. Gotta love timezones, lol.

 

[SkarmNightmare (Brett)]

Good Morning, tacticians.

Yo.
Also it's quarter to eleven here but whatever.

 

[Avokha]

I'm pretty sure Miyamoto meant by saying he was Bowser Jr's mother was that he created Bowser Jr. and so he considers Bowser Jr (and every other character he created) to be his children.

Lol in that case

 

[ARGHETH]

I did too until I tested it and Lucina has much better vertical distance than Marth with the Dolphin Slash but doesn't have the kill potential like or the power like Roy's Blazer

You're...kind of five months late for April Fool's.
They have the exact same vertical distance on DS (~3ds Battlefield top platform height) and their kill % not being that different (~130% with Mario on 3ds FD for both, Marth untippered since that's the one you'll be landing anyways). This is, of course barring a difference in 3ds and WiiU regarding DS (unlikely) or a new thing discovered that I don't know about yet (more likely).
EDIT: Ohhh...kill potential of Blazer. Umm...whoops.
Does 5% more and kills ~ 10% earlier.

 

[Ffamran]

Has anyone played/heard of Threads of Fate? Someone used Mint's Scheme for a video, I looked up the full song, and now I'm curious about this old game.

 

[Symphonia]

Happy Birthday!~ @Delta Fist
Here's some Robin art to celebrate

 

[Mr. Johan]

http://nintendoeverything.com/famitsu-mascot-to-be-added-as-a-costume-in-super-mario-maker/

DLC costumes are a thing in Mario Maker, so who knows, maybe Female Robin will be available at a later date.

 

[Raziek]

Oh boy. See, my intention was to say my opinion about Robin's tier placement and state my reasons why, and see if people agree or not. What I didn't expect was people flaming me for saying their character is bottom 10 (which I actually do believe is the case), calling me crazy and ignorant for my statement, and trying to make it like they want to win some kind of argument or something. Which was not the point. Of course I won't take these words to heart because I see how passionate you Robin gorls are about your character and defending that he/she is great that you would go into much great lengths to do so.
We Zelda gorls can't do that

I still do respect pro Robin players and the social here very well and I wish that one day many of you guys together can prove me wrong with national and global results with your favourite tactician. :^)

I really think you're just wrong here.

Most of your reasons are flimsy paper excuses, most of which are outdated or simply incorrect.

Robin's recovery is not nearly as weak as you claim it to be, especially after buffs in 1.10. You should basically only get gimped by like, getting Baired 16 times in a row by Sheik (if you for some reason don't save your double jump appropriately) or you're bad at managing your tomes.

Poor speed? What is this, October 10th? It's become clear from Robin's gameplan at this point that her poor ground speed is not nearly as crippling as people make it out to be, especially because she's in the air 90% of the time anyway, and the other 10% she is stationary and JABBING.

Poor OoS options I'll give you, but Jab is functional enough that it really only hinders her against like..... Mii Brawler (Super Small) and Sheik, who she does fine against regardless. Sheik, that is. Brawler is suffering, but he's never legal because the US sucks.

Worst moves are breakable? Once again, what is this, October 10th? Have you just not watched Dath or I play ever? The items breaking is a GOOD thing, because we get a freaking 18 damage projectile that people are so terrified of that you can often just stand there threatening to throw it until the book comes back.

Like, what? You think Dedede, Ganondorf and Mii Sword are all better than Robin? I just don't know how you can honestly think that opinion is even slightly defensible.

"t many characters can overwhelm Robin even in the mid and low tiers because he's so slow and gimpable, and his zoning is okay, but definitely not amazing and holds him back."

Many? What? Like you're actually just wrong here, but because you were so vague I have no actual stance to attack here. I can tell you that 'his zoning is not amazing' is just wrong, especially after Elthunder/Arcthunder buffs.

I don't know how you can claim something so far from accepted opinion (ESAM puts Robin at 17th, spoilers) and then legitimately try to play the victim card when you get called on your **** opinion being literal feces.

Everything you said was either super vague or blatantly recycled reddit hivethink outdated garbage opinions that disregard the actual state of how we have advanced Robin's meta-game.

AND YES, I take this very personally because I am almost certainly the one who has done the most work towards pushing this character's meta forward. So no, I will not apologize for calling you out when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Do not invoke the wrath of Cthulhu Raziek lest thee want a good smacking down.

 

[Nah]

Just saying, I'd take ESAM's tier list with a grain of salt since he placed Diddy behind Robin and Pikachu at #2, and afaik he's the only top player to put Robin at a spot higher than 20th.

 

[smokebomb12]

I really think you're just wrong here.

Most of your reasons are flimsy paper excuses, most of which are outdated or simply incorrect.

Robin's recovery is not nearly as weak as you claim it to be, especially after buffs in 1.10. You should basically only get gimped by like, getting Baired 16 times in a row by Sheik (if you for some reason don't save your double jump appropriately) or you're bad at managing your tomes.

Poor speed? What is this, October 10th? It's become clear from Robin's gameplan at this point that her poor ground speed is not nearly as crippling as people make it out to be, especially because she's in the air 90% of the time anyway, and the other 10% she is stationary and JABBING.

Poor OoS options I'll give you, but Jab is functional enough that it really only hinders her against like..... Mii Brawler (Super Small) and Sheik, who she does fine against regardless. Sheik, that is. Brawler is suffering, but he's never legal because the US sucks.

Worst moves are breakable? Once again, what is this, October 10th? Have you just not watched Dath or I play ever? The items breaking is a GOOD thing, because we get a freaking 18 damage projectile that people are so terrified of that you can often just stand there threatening to throw it until the book comes back.

Like, what? You think Dedede, Ganondorf and Mii Sword are all better than Robin? I just don't know how you can honestly think that opinion is even slightly defensible.

"t many characters can overwhelm Robin even in the mid and low tiers because he's so slow and gimpable, and his zoning is okay, but definitely not amazing and holds him back."

Many? What? Like you're actually just wrong here, but because you were so vague I have no actual stance to attack here. I can tell you that 'his zoning is not amazing' is just wrong, especially after Elthunder/Arcthunder buffs.

I don't know how you can claim something so far from accepted opinion (ESAM puts Robin at 17th, spoilers) and then legitimately try to play the victim card when you get called on your **** opinion being literal feces.

Everything you said was either super vague or blatantly recycled reddit hivethink outdated garbage opinions that disregard the actual state of how we have advanced Robin's meta-game.

AND YES, I take this very personally because I am almost certainly the one who has done the most work towards pushing this character's meta forward. So no, I will not apologize for calling you out when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Talk abut Fire emblem cause this **** got burned UP!

 

[Devil May Plop]

How's your morning so far everyone?

 

[Champ Gold]

@ Raziek going hard on boys

Just saying, I'd take ESAM's tier list with a grain of salt since he placed Diddy behind Robin and Pikachu at #2, and afaik he's the only top player to put Robin at a spot higher than 20th.

That and he put Ryu in Bottom 5. If he gets beaten by a Ryu in a tournament, the salt is gonna be real.

 

[Raziek]

ESAM is an outlier, sure, but that's also because he's in the only US region that has a top level Robin. (Dath)

 

[Deleted member]

That and he put Ryu in Bottom 5. If he gets beaten by a Ryu in a tournament, the salt is gonna be real.

He put Ryu in bottom 5?
I highly disagree with him there. I think Ryu has the potential to be a top 10 character, if not top 5. I think ZeRo goes into this well here:

How's your morning so far everyone?

I just woke up, but I'm having a good morning so far.

 

[Kotor]

How's your morning so far everyone?

I was suppose to have class from 9:30 to 10:45 but my professor cancelled for today.

I decided that I was going to be a responsible college student and go to my local mall and visit the GameStop there to buy the and amiibo.

Prepare to be blessed, Smash Bros!

 

[Jestar]

Phoenix is still doin' his thang.

(Watch the whole thing, please.)

This takes me back.

Another nostalgia trip for me.

 

[SBphiloz4]

I really think you're just wrong here.

Most of your reasons are flimsy paper excuses, most of which are outdated or simply incorrect.

Robin's recovery is not nearly as weak as you claim it to be, especially after buffs in 1.10. You should basically only get gimped by like, getting Baired 16 times in a row by Sheik (if you for some reason don't save your double jump appropriately) or you're bad at managing your tomes.

Poor speed? What is this, October 10th? It's become clear from Robin's gameplan at this point that her poor ground speed is not nearly as crippling as people make it out to be, especially because she's in the air 90% of the time anyway, and the other 10% she is stationary and JABBING.

Poor OoS options I'll give you, but Jab is functional enough that it really only hinders her against like..... Mii Brawler (Super Small) and Sheik, who she does fine against regardless. Sheik, that is. Brawler is suffering, but he's never legal because the US sucks.

Worst moves are breakable? Once again, what is this, October 10th? Have you just not watched Dath or I play ever? The items breaking is a GOOD thing, because we get a freaking 18 damage projectile that people are so terrified of that you can often just stand there threatening to throw it until the book comes back.

Like, what? You think Dedede, Ganondorf and Mii Sword are all better than Robin? I just don't know how you can honestly think that opinion is even slightly defensible.

"t many characters can overwhelm Robin even in the mid and low tiers because he's so slow and gimpable, and his zoning is okay, but definitely not amazing and holds him back."

Many? What? Like you're actually just wrong here, but because you were so vague I have no actual stance to attack here. I can tell you that 'his zoning is not amazing' is just wrong, especially after Elthunder/Arcthunder buffs.

I don't know how you can claim something so far from accepted opinion (ESAM puts Robin at 17th, spoilers) and then legitimately try to play the victim card when you get called on your **** opinion being literal feces.

Everything you said was either super vague or blatantly recycled reddit hivethink outdated garbage opinions that disregard the actual state of how we have advanced Robin's meta-game.

AND YES, I take this very personally because I am almost certainly the one who has done the most work towards pushing this character's meta forward. So no, I will not apologize for calling you out when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

I'll start off by saying that I have no intention of disregarding the amount of effort the Robins have put in their metagame. You and Dath have certainly put in a lot of effort in your character, and I have seen and do have much respect in your play. I do not believe you need to apologize to me because, well, we have different opinions. We can have that, I just believe it doesn't hold as much water as some believe. Also I do know that Esam ranked Robin very high, even higher than Diddy Kong, which I respectfully disagree. One top player's opinion however cannot be generalized as an accepted opinion for many top players. Why do we rarely or never see Robin from players like Nairo or Trela anymore, and use other perhaps "inferior characters"? Could it be that, maybe and just maybe, Robin isn't that good?

Now if I go on further, I'll most likely continue looking like the unpopular opinion guy that just wants attention. After seeing what happened yesterday I didn't want to side track the social and make people feel unwelcome here because of tier discussions. Thus if you Robin gorls really want me to elaborate my arguments, please PM me. I might also make a thread separately from this social to discuss this.

 

[Milo AKA Papa]

tfw when OoT is on the PS4

Spoiler

I did too until I tested it and Lucina has much better vertical distance than Marth with the Dolphin Slash but doesn't have the kill potential like or the power like Roy's Blazer

Marth's dolphin slash has nice kill power too!!! it's just really hard to hit

 

[Kotor]

Hey guys, I have a friend who recently joined Smashboards today. His name is @ Yaki . Give him a nice welcome!

 

[LIQUID12A]

Hi @ Yaki .

Come stay at our lovely social. C:

 

[Wintropy]

Have the most wonderful kinda scale-tipping day, @Delta Fist, and welcome to @ Yaki !

Something something INVISIBLE BONDS~!

 

[Deleted member]

Welcome, @ Yaki !

 

[Chapter Serf]

I'll start off by saying that I have no intention of disregarding the amount of effort the Robins have put in their metagame. You and Dath have certainly put in a lot of effort in your character, and I have seen and do have much respect in your play. I do not believe you need to apologize to me because, well, we have different opinions. We can have that, I just believe it doesn't hold as much water as some believe. Also I do know that Esam ranked Robin very high, even higher than Diddy Kong, which I respectfully disagree. One top player's opinion however cannot be generalized as an accepted opinion for many top players. Why do we rarely or never see Robin from players like Nairo or Trela anymore, and use other perhaps "inferior characters"? Could it be that, maybe and just maybe, Robin isn't that good?

Now if I go on further, I'll most likely continue looking like the unpopular opinion guy that just wants attention. After seeing what happened yesterday I didn't want to side track the social and make people feel unwelcome here because of tier discussions. Thus if you Robin gorls really want me to elaborate my arguments, please PM me. I might also make a thread separately from this social to discuss this.

How does someone not using a character in high level tournament play equal that character being bad or in bottom ranked tiers? If that was the case, then the tier lists would be two levels only: "Used in High Level Play Tournaments" and "Not Used in High Level Play Tournaments".

Are Fox and Pit from Brawl trash? No. They're very mid tier. Mid Tier does not equal ****. Were they used in tournaments? Not nearly as much as say MK, Snake, ZSS and Marth were. But they were top tier characters. Top tier characters are, naturally, going to get played more than Mid and Low Tier characters. And someone like Nairo (a high level tournament player) is going to gravitate towards a Higher Tier Character like ZSS over a Mid Tier Character like Robin.

I don't really care about this overarching meta and tier list enough to care about your (or Raziek's for that matter) arguments, but when you equate a character to not being used in high level tournaments to being a **** character, it doesn't make any sense. Especially when you take into account that the roster is as big as it is.

 

[Yaki]

Inb4 you all thought I played Robin too.

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

I really think you're just wrong here.

Most of your reasons are flimsy paper excuses, most of which are outdated or simply incorrect.

Robin's recovery is not nearly as weak as you claim it to be, especially after buffs in 1.10. You should basically only get gimped by like, getting Baired 16 times in a row by Sheik (if you for some reason don't save your double jump appropriately) or you're bad at managing your tomes.

Poor speed? What is this, October 10th? It's become clear from Robin's gameplan at this point that her poor ground speed is not nearly as crippling as people make it out to be, especially because she's in the air 90% of the time anyway, and the other 10% she is stationary and JABBING.

Poor OoS options I'll give you, but Jab is functional enough that it really only hinders her against like..... Mii Brawler (Super Small) and Sheik, who she does fine against regardless. Sheik, that is. Brawler is suffering, but he's never legal because the US sucks.

Worst moves are breakable? Once again, what is this, October 10th? Have you just not watched Dath or I play ever? The items breaking is a GOOD thing, because we get a freaking 18 damage projectile that people are so terrified of that you can often just stand there threatening to throw it until the book comes back.

Like, what? You think Dedede, Ganondorf and Mii Sword are all better than Robin? I just don't know how you can honestly think that opinion is even slightly defensible.

"t many characters can overwhelm Robin even in the mid and low tiers because he's so slow and gimpable, and his zoning is okay, but definitely not amazing and holds him back."

Many? What? Like you're actually just wrong here, but because you were so vague I have no actual stance to attack here. I can tell you that 'his zoning is not amazing' is just wrong, especially after Elthunder/Arcthunder buffs.

I don't know how you can claim something so far from accepted opinion (ESAM puts Robin at 17th, spoilers) and then legitimately try to play the victim card when you get called on your **** opinion being literal feces.

Everything you said was either super vague or blatantly recycled reddit hivethink outdated garbage opinions that disregard the actual state of how we have advanced Robin's meta-game.

AND YES, I take this very personally because I am almost certainly the one who has done the most work towards pushing this character's meta forward. So no, I will not apologize for calling you out when you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Raziek strikes again! Please calm down, children. We all get upset when people call the center of our efforts bottom tier, but that's no reason to violently explode. If the guy thinks Robin is bottom tier, so be it. And what if he were bottom tier? While I do agree with you regarding his assumed tier, I personally believe that Robin's position on the tier list (or any character's position on the tier list, for that matter) is (to some degree) irrelevant to competitive play. I understand that some character's limitations will become apparent somewhat quickly in the metagame, and some are countered so heavily that most would deem winning any kind of tournament with said character impossible, but that's no reason to get upset over it and scrap the character. That's a reason to move forward with it and show people how awesome you are by kicking some booty with a low-tier.

Now then. Let's be mature about this in the future, gents.

 

[~Skelly~]

Inb4 you all thought I played Robin too.

Hi, new guy! Its all right, most of us here at the Robin boards don't even play Robin, or at least much anyway. We stay for the company. Totally not because the other boards are pretentious, boring and/or dead silent.

Hope you enjoy your time here.

 

[Jestar]

tfw when OoT is on the PS4

Spoiler

 

[Yaki]

Hi, new guy! Its all right, most of us here at the Robin boards don't even play Robin, or at least much anyway. We stay for the company. Totally not because the other boards are pretentious, boring and/or dead silent.

Hope you enjoy your time here.

Thanks. I did play Robin for a bit on release but I like my Lucina/Marth better.

 

[Zantetsugun]

Inb4 you all thought I played Robin too.

Sup man? Glad you could make it! Any friend of @ Kotor is a friend of mine!

 

[Raziek]

I'll start off by saying that I have no intention of disregarding the amount of effort the Robins have put in their metagame. You and Dath have certainly put in a lot of effort in your character, and I have seen and do have much respect in your play. I do not believe you need to apologize to me because, well, we have different opinions. We can have that, I just believe it doesn't hold as much water as some believe. Also I do know that Esam ranked Robin very high, even higher than Diddy Kong, which I respectfully disagree. One top player's opinion however cannot be generalized as an accepted opinion for many top players. Why do we rarely or never see Robin from players like Nairo or Trela anymore, and use other perhaps "inferior characters"? Could it be that, maybe and just maybe, Robin isn't that good?

Now if I go on further, I'll most likely continue looking like the unpopular opinion guy that just wants attention. After seeing what happened yesterday I didn't want to side track the social and make people feel unwelcome here because of tier discussions. Thus if you Robin gorls really want me to elaborate my arguments, please PM me. I might also make a thread separately from this social to discuss this.

Nairo's not using Robin because he gets significantly better results playing ZSS. Same for Trela and Ryu. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. Nairo's playing the best possible character he can because he's aiming to win NATIONALS. If you're not playing as far up the tier list as possible when you're at that level, you're pretty unlikely to actually win.

Robin is a difficult character who takes a lot of work to properly understand her matchups and gameplay, and that is one of (if not the most significant) reason she is underplayed. She also doesn't appeal to the lowest common denominator who just want to pick Mario/Falcon/Fox/Luigi and play 'Gotta go fast, dashgrab boyz'.

I don't have a problem with someone saying 'Robin's not Top 10 or 15' because that's not an unreasonable claim. I think she's somewhere in the 17-24 range. What is a TOTALLY UNREASONABLE claim is that she is bottom 10. There's simply no way that's the case and I think you have to be blatantly ignoring both the buffs she's received and actually looking at her gameplay in order to come to such an absurd conclusion.

Like I said, your opinions are on surface level, extremely outdated, and you seem to be relying almost exclusively on what you 'see' and leaning on the opinion of people who aren't well-informed about the character (read: most other top players). I'm willing to bet you have very little experience against an actually competent player of the character.

 

[IAmMetaKnight]

Inb4 you all thought I played Robin too.

Nairo's not using Robin because he gets significantly better results playing ZSS. Same for Trela and Ryu. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that. Nairo's playing the best possible character he can because he's aiming to win NATIONALS. If you're not playing as far up the tier list as possible when you're at that level, you're pretty unlikely to actually win.
Robin is a difficult character who takes a lot of work to properly understand her matchups and gameplay, and that is one of (if not the most significant) reason she is underplayed. She also doesn't appeal to the lowest common denominator who just want to pick Mario/Falcon/Fox/Luigi and play 'Gotta go fast, dashgrab boyz'.
I don't have a problem with someone saying 'Robin's not Top 10 or 15' because that's not an unreasonable claim. I think she's somewhere in the 17-24 range. What is a TOTALLY UNREASONABLE claim is that she is bottom 10. There's simply no way that's the case and I think you have to be blatantly ignoring both the buffs she's received and actually looking at her gameplay in order to come to such an absurd conclusion.
Like I said, your opinions are on surface level, extremely outdated, and you seem to be relying almost exclusively on what you 'see' and leaning on the opinion of people who aren't well-informed about the character (read: most other top players). I'm willing to bet you have very little experience against an actually competent player of the character.

Preach it, Raz.