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Tilt-Sticking--Thoughts?

Proverbs

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,698
Location
Seattle, WA
Sure, the Lucas players are B-sticking, but with the usefulness of Zelda's tilts, would tilting with the c-stick be an advantage?

I tried this out and OHMYGOODNESSS it made my game ridiculously faster. Yes, ridiculously faster. Everytime I would normally smash, I'd tilt, and the tilts were amazingly accessible. But a couple of things made me change it back.

Problems: Somehow you randomly jump accidentally when tilt-sticking. If you don't learn to do it accurately you can accidentally jab instead of f-tilt. These got really annoying, personally, and I just couldn't get used to tilting with the c-stick, but I wanted to hear your responses.


A great benefit, though, is that you can neutral air with the c-stick, something you cannot do with the c-stick set to smash.


So, thoughts?
 

Looper

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 12, 2008
Messages
222
i would do it, but the fact that you jump when tilt-sticking too much in a given time changed my mind
 

sFoster

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
339
B-Sticking and Smash-Sticking are both more useful with Zelda than tilt sticking
 

blink777

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
469
Location
Toronto, ON
B-Sticking and Smash-Sticking are both more useful with Zelda than tilt sticking
I may agree with you (I tend to have heavy fingers, and wind up charging DSmash for a split second, making it slower than with the Smash-stick), but it would be beneficial to the topic if you actually gave reasons.
 

sFoster

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
339
The only reason that Zelda's dsmash is good -- is because it's FAST AS HELL.
If you are creating the extra frames by pressing down-a manually, you are creating a serious hinderance.

Zelda IMO needs the downsmash to be instaneous if you want to be taken seriously.

As far as B-Sticking, which I maintain is more useful than tilt sticking
Consider this thread of mine: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=164551

I reference both B-Reversal's and Recoil Specials.
These aren't as effective at influencing your DI without the c-stick.

Try setting you c-stick to specials and you'll find preforming these valuable techniques are much easier.

Also, consider for example if you are fastfalling and want to FW far to the right to avoid an edge guarder.
If you press up and B, this influences your momentum and slows your freefall.

If you use the special-stick instead, pressing up on it will not influence your momentum and you will experience more fast fall during your exit animation.
 

Proverbs

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2008
Messages
1,698
Location
Seattle, WA
I may agree with you (I tend to have heavy fingers, and wind up charging DSmash for a split second, making it slower than with the Smash-stick), but it would be beneficial to the topic if you actually gave reasons.


Well, I thought tilting easier was a reason. <.<;; But seriously, it makes tilting much more immediate, and if you tilt often it's good. It makes your playstyle amazingly faster and you use smashes, which aren't needed that much for Zelda, a lot less. It also makes you think a little more about when to use smashes. The duration of a tilt attack can be much less than that of a smash, so if someone spotdodges or something, a smash can leave you open, whereas a tilt might not (Zelda also multihits, so a spotdodge might not be a prime example, but rolldodging past her might do just as well). These really ARE the reasons--about the same reasons why you'd keep it to smash. It all matters what sort of Zelda you play, but tilt-sticking isn't a bad option. B-sticking, however, with Zelda, I think is sort of lame and useless. You can only really mess with Din's Fire's momentum, otherwise I'm not going to b-stick anything. It's just as easy to press B for Nayru's love and up+B for Farore's Wind. Zelda=/=Lucas. The advantage of getting Din's Fire a split second earlier really doesn't cut it over faster tilts or smashes. I don't know about you, but I only Din's Fire when I'm a SAFE distance from my opponent. And if I am, I don't need to b-stick it. Catch my drift? However, doing a last second f-tilt can throw your opponent off a ledge, u-tilting at 120% or so can KO, d-tilting with a split second opportunity (that tilt-sticking makes much easier) can trap your opponent and rack up huge damage--Need I say more? If you want to stick with smashes, I can understand that--I probably will, myself. But B-sticking with Zelda really seems to inhibit you more than it does help.
 

sFoster

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
339
Umm I just tried this tilt sticking, are you actually serious?

With Smash sticking:
Pressing control-stick up + c-stick up will result in an instant up tilt
Pressing control-stick down + c-stick down will result in an instant down tilt

With tilt-sticking:
You accidently jump sometimes
You can't preform a back tilt if someone rolls behind you!

The only thing you're gaining is a slightly faster f-tilt here, and you can't even preform that out of a dash.
Because the smash(c)-stick can already be used for both up-tilts and down-tilts, and you can also use it for smashes, and you can press-b at the same time to use it for specials I propose that it is in fact more useful than tilt-sticking.

Recoil Specials are cool, but also if you're edge guarding, you never move forward using the B-Stick. In contrast to using a tilt stick and pressing forward+b, it's no longer possible to accidently move forward, shoot a dins and fall to your death.

F-tilt's are possible to get out just as quickly with a little practice, and as I've said above f-tilt is actually the only thing you gain w/ a tilt stick for zelda. So you can still use all of her tilts, plus neutral-a with the same amount of speed and not have to give up your smash stick.
 

S2

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 4, 2004
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1,503
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Socal 805 (aka Hyrule)
Zelda's smashes are more valuable than her tilts overall. That isn't to downtalk her tilts, because you'd have to be stupid to not use them.

But ultimately, you want fast access to non-charged smashes (espeically the d-smash) over the tilts. Since the error margin for accidentlly charging a smash for a split second can get you killed in some matchups.

The tilts are all easily possible with some technical mastery of the control stick, with up-smash being the hardest.

I can understand if someone else used the other c-stick options, but changing the c-stick is already being talked about in a different thread, and its seeming that c-stick for smashes gives Zelda the most advantages.
 

Proverbs

Smash Lord
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Feb 21, 2008
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Seattle, WA
All right--thanks. I wasn't planning to use tilt-sticking anyhow, but was curious what everyone else thought of it.
 

Triforce_Chauzu

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Messages
126
Location
Sweden
I used tilt-sticking for a couple of days before, but I removed it when I noticed that you can disable jumping on the control stick. ^^

Now it's b-sticking ftw!
 

popsofctown

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
2,505
Location
Alabama
No one uses their stick to tilt except poor little ol' me....

I have full respect for both other options, so i don't feel like defending the tiltstick, but as its lone representative i suppose i should. I've been using the tilt stick for months upon months, It is quite innate to my play style now.

Benefits:
All three tilts can be done more quickly with tiltsticking.
You might think that you don't need up tilt, but it is good to use. It is better for diagonals, and if you choose to use it rather than upsmash and miss you will often hit your target on the other side.
Ftilt has been discussed already
Dtilt becomes faster, and also helps you be less predictable. Usually if you plan on using a down tilt, you start tilting the stick down just a little, which might make you duck and give away your plans. But with tilt stick you can go into a Dtilt from the standing position straight away.
And you still have all those aerial attacks, plus Nair. There is no way that i know of to fast fall a Nair without using tilt stick. Nor is there a way i know of to give constant right movement input and suddenly do a nair... you usually have to mess with your character's momentum somehow to do the nair.


As for Proverbs' original gripes:
The accidental jabs may be annoying, but they completely go away in about, i dunno, four days of using it. after that you will never see them again. Except every once in a while when i feel smug, so i tilt in the opposite direction of forward to do jab.
The accidental jumping is a bit more serious, it never goes away completely. It happens less and less as you get used to it.. however, know that it is not random, it is your own fault. I read.... somewhere... that it occurs when your ftilts are going slightly upward, and when you are spamming uptilts. (or any combination thereof). Something about reading in upward direction and tap jump, i dunno.
But after i read this i noticed something, that i the jumping tended to happen when the enemy was above. During my Ftilts i would be "thinking" upwards you could say. So although you don't want it to jump, it always makes you jump when there is something up there to jump to, since sometimes the input was subconscious.... The honest truth, sometimes i'll be doing an ftilt when an enemy is slightly above, and instead I'll jump, and since i'm still doing ftilt, I do a heel kick. Once, it was a sweetspot. But once again, the accident jumps happen less and less with time. It happens less than once during every 4 stock match. (on average. no one smart off at that)

*********The major unmentioned benefit of tiltstick**********

Is sheik's tilts. If you play a dual Zelda, like me, you have to use whatever set up you did for Zelda for Sheik too. And sheik has a much stronger case for the tiltstick. Her uptilt has better range and about equal precedence as her slower up smash, so you use it all the time. And tilt stick makes those Ftilt, Ftilt, Ftilt, Utilt combos much easier. Sheik also can use his dtilt for breathing room..... But the main huge enormous thing is Sheik's Utilt and Ftilt. Those are so wonderful when they are faster.
 

Lingy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 23, 2006
Messages
274
Location
Austin, TX
Anyone use the tilted f-tilts? lol

The ones where you can aim up a bit, or down a bit. I find that the down f-tilt hits the enemy upwards, great combo starter.
 

shal

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
131
Location
Queens, NY
yeah great if u use c stick then follow it some other combos, but the tilt if very usefull
 

Slayers8anFTW

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
14
Location
New Albany, Indiana
Personally I don't ever see myself switching my Zelda to any other form of "sticking" other than default. I walk alot with Zelda, and having my c-stick set to smashes allows me to mix up my game a bit more, since I can already f-tilt out of walk. The smash stick setting allows me to throw a f-smash out of walk as well, which mixes up the range of my attack a bit. Also, up tilting is something that I can do just fine (I keep uptap turned of on my control sitck) with the analog stick and "A" button. The only tilt that can be a little complicated to access is the d-tilt, since sometimes you accidently crouch before you go into it, which will set off warning sirens in any opponent that is remotely compitent.
 
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