Tier Lists... Do they exist?

[smashbros.maniac]

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OK, the subject is: Tier Lists... Do they exist outside of theoretical battles?

Well, I got thinking to myself...
Some characters might be technically better than other characters if played to their fullest. And people generally like to play top tier characters because they are usually considered faster or stronger. And they usually have more practice battling those other top tier characters. But what if someone comes along with a lower tier character that they have mastered... The person playing as the top tier character may be at a disadvantage because they practiced battling other top tier character players. The lower tier player is going to probably have more experience battling top tiers but the top tier player won't be able to judge the lower tier players movements as well, or know their strategies as well.

In conclusion: Mastering a lower tier just might just give you an edge!

It's a theory. Please discuss.

 

[Jonkku]

In conclusion: Mastering a lower tier just might just give you an edge!

Nah, there will always be atleast one MK somewhere out there to dsmash/tornado/shuttle looop spam and win without trying.

No, I'm not angry because a MK player beat me, I'm just making an obligatory MK = unbeatable joke

 

[Geist]

There's a difference between tiers and matchups.
A good player will have studied every matchup, reguardless, and at that point playing a lower tier character for shock value becomes irrelevant.

 

[MarKO X]

Tiers do exist. But...

Even if it's like a bible... just like a bible, not everyone lives by it.

Take me for example. I suck with MK and Snake. Yes, I know what makes them so good, but an opponent is more likely to win against my MK and my Snake than they are my Sonic and my Marth. So yeah...

Tiers do exist. But it's not as end all as certain people *cough*scrubs*cough* make them out to be.

 

[ndayday]

Yeah, look.

SS Tier
Meta Knight 15.00

S Tier
Snake 13.91

A Tier
Falco 13.03
King Dedede 12.94
Mr. Game & Watch 12.50
Marth 12.09
Diddy Kong 11.94

B Tier
Wario 11.47
R.O.B. 11.38
Lucario 10.94
Olimar 10.94

C Tier
Pikachu 10.34
Kirby 10.16
Donkey Kong 10.06
Ice Climbers 9.59

D Tier
Zero Suit Samus 8.88
Toon Link 8.47
Pit 8.44
Peach 8.16
Wolf 7.91

E Tier
Luigi 7.41
Zelda 7.03
Bowser 6.91
Fox 6.66
Sheik 6.44
Ike 5.91

F Tier
Mario 4.56
Lucas 4.50
Ness 4.50
Samus 4.41
Sonic 4.16
Pokémon Trainer 3.94
Yoshi 3.66

G Tier
Link 2.28
Jigglypuff 2.03
Ganondorf 1.88
Captain Falcon 1.63

It's amazing...they, like unicorns, exist!

 

[Charizard92]

They do exist, but it can be more like bragging rights than an actual hard core thing. Sans Metaknight, Most characters do have a shot in a match up against another. Plus, Match ups are more important to some characters (lie PT) than others (like Metaknight).

 

[Rain(ame)]

They exist...matchups are a different story, though. Roy has a bunch of horrid matchups. He goes even with Fox, though. (doesn't make him a good character, =p) A good Fox will learn how to tip the match in his favor at all times. Just like a Roy needs to learn how to exploit every weapon in his arsenal to make things work in his favor. You've got to work hard to overcome what weaknesses you have. Some characters(Falcon), have a bit(A LOT) more work than others (MK)

 

[Firus]

Yeah, look.

It's amazing...they, like unicorns, exist!

Yeah, this.

10badwordings.

 

[SothE700k]

There will always be a case of inexperience against the low tiers, but as soon as that's learned, goodbye to your surprise and I hope you know your character inside and out.

Unless the match up is 100:0, the lower tier will have a chance to win, they just have to work so much harder due to their poorer quality in areas.

About that scrubs comment...its weird, they're never in the middle. Either they live and die by the tiers, or think they don't exist, period.

 

[The furosious robot has left]

Yes they do. Speaking of which, I know why falco is so high. He doesn't trip, because personally, he prefers the air. and you can't trip in the air(Don't give Sakurai any ideas).

Bottom line:They do exist.

 

[MBreeto]

Unfortunately, they do.

 

[Rain(ame)]

Sorry, Furious....you CAN trip in the air. It's happened to me while I was both Peach and Sonic. Nobody is safe from tripping, xD.

 

[justaway12]

Sorry, Furious....you CAN trip in the air. It's happened to me while I was both Peach and Sonic. Nobody is safe from tripping, xD.

You're kidding right?...Please say you are .

 

[Teran]

Sorry, Furious....you CAN trip in the air. It's happened to me while I was both Peach and Sonic. Nobody is safe from tripping, xD.

The Almighty Sakurai's power knows no bounds.

 

[MarKO X]

Sorry, Furious....you CAN trip in the air. It's happened to me while I was both Peach and Sonic. Nobody is safe from tripping, xD.

Lol... air tripping with Sonic.

It's actually just a glitched consequence of the spring.

If you spring up to the ledge, and you land on the stage without ever going into that animation where Sonic can't use B moves, and you get knocked off the stage before jumping to enter that animation, you will fail.

 

[Mith_]

Mastering a low tier will only get you so far. I'll use an example I used in another thread like this.

According to the tier list MK > Shiek
MK player has minimal Shiek experience. Shiek player of course being a master at his character would know the MK matchup.
MK plays Shiek and loses due to lack of experience. However, the more MK plays Shiek the more he will learn the matchup then eventually beat Shiek everytime because MK is better than Shiek.

 

[The furosious robot has left]

Mastering a low tier will only get you so far. I'll use an example I used in another thread like this.

According to the tier list MK > Shiek
MK player has minimal Shiek experience. Shiek player of course being a master at his character would know the MK matchup.
MK plays Shiek and loses due to lack of experience. However, the more MK plays Shiek the more he will learn the matchup then eventually beat Shiek everytime because MK is better than Shiek.

Counterpicks can be below they're opponents on the tier list. I don't know about this paticular matchup, But If you want an overview of quality in general, Go for the tier list, If going for a specific opponent, study matchups. Wanted to clear that up for those new to the tier list/smash in general.

 

[smashbros.maniac]

Good points everyone.

I really do need to learn some of the higher tier characters...
I usually just play the characters that feel good to me, and go with it. xD

 

[Teran]

Mastering a low tier will only get you so far. I'll use an example I used in another thread like this.

According to the tier list MK > Shiek
MK player has minimal Shiek experience. Shiek player of course being a master at his character would know the MK matchup.
MK plays Shiek and loses due to lack of experience. However, the more MK plays Shiek the more he will learn the matchup then eventually beat Shiek everytime because MK is better than Shiek.

Lol that was from my blog xD.
Low tiers can maybe win you a game or set from shock value, but once the Top Tier adapts, they'll always or almost always win.

 

[Justblaze647]

In conclusion: / wins.

Tiers do exist.

 

[Skrah]

Tiers DO exist. If you decide to follow them or not, its your choice.
Personally I love low/med tiers. It gives you a challenge, especially against top tiers. If you lose, you CAN john that it was a low tier, and don't feel so bad. But if a top tier loses to a low tier, they are screwed for life.

And if things get to hairy with my Link, I summon the power of comboness of captain falcon to help me win

 

[cj.Shark]

the fact that tiers change is good proof that they arent "true" tierlists
if characters never change than how can characters move up and down tiers?
mathematically tiers are flawed
which brings me to the main point in which you should disregard any and all tiers
Tier lists are opinionated therefore they mean nothing.

and for people saying "omg they found a new tech!! character X will rise!" further proves my point because if techs are still being found then by no way should you be allowed to judge a characters "potiential" and make a tierlist while the game is still progessing.

 

[SexTornado]

Tiers don't matter, its the matchup. Someone who has mastered a high tier char will lose to a low tier char if the matchup is in their favor. I think that knowing how to play a few mid/low tier chars is better than playing 1 high tier char (unless it's metaknight)

 

[SothE700k]

the fact that tiers change is good proof that they arent "true" tierlists
if characters never change than how can characters move up and down tiers?
mathematically tiers are flawed
which brings me to the main point in which you should disregard any and all tiers
Tier lists are opinionated therefore they mean nothing.

and for people saying "omg they found a new tech!! character X will rise!" further proves my point because if techs are still being found then by no way should you be allowed to judge a characters "potiential" and make a tierlist while the game is still progessing.

Its called "keeping track of the current metagame".

 

[cj.Shark]

Its called "keeping track of the current metagame".

then why do characters move up and down based on potiential? screw potiential if a tierlist is an accurate representation of the current metagame.
and furthermore whats the point? you are pouring time and energy to make a tierlist of the current metagame which as of a whole does Nothing.

 

[SothE700k]

then why do characters move up and down based on potiential? screw potiential if a tierlist is an accurate representation of the current metagame.
and furthermore whats the point? you are pouring time and energy to make a tierlist of the current metagame which as of a whole does Nothing.

Because things are discovered.
Think there's no use for a real life tool? People will find things that a tool can do, and once something has been discovered, tested, and stamped as legit, then its said to have potential. Once its shown it has potential, that tool will end up having more of a use, hence, it becomes more useful, hence better.

That's what people do for every character, regardless of top or bottom tier. People will find tools that can make that character's potential rise because of the better tools found.

And a tierlist is shown to see who has the most potential going for them at the moment. That's why they fluctuate. Some characters have tools found for them by the BUNCHES, the others come to a standstill. And with those tools, shows who has the more potential (and I don't mean in just the instance of ATs and that, I mean EVERYTHING in a character in general). 6 or so months later, some characters who were at a standstill start having everything found for them, and other characters make no advance.

That's why tierlists change so much, we see whose making better progression, and who still has the better tools for success.