tier list formula

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I'm working on the tier list formula. My basic idea as of now is to take the data from the results page like where fox is 1711 or something and add up all the number divdi each charcter by the total points to find out a percent in which I can times the value of the matchs ups like let's say falco counters pichu he won't get many points from that because he won't be timed anything but iof he counts peach he'll get how much he counters she by times her vaule.

Maybe I should take their value add one form like bottom tiers and junk and lets say someone's vale is 11% plus one 12 and they lose the match-up by 4-6 they get 60% of the value which would be 7.2 points then their value is 10 peach would get 4 point if it's bad enough of a match-up they don't get points only the foe.

I'm still working on it but any other ideas? Yes I know pichu will most likly be the worse but again some match-ups are wrong like puff/marth vs pichu. I'll be working on this I expect fox to be top and sheik to be surprisingly low.


EDIT I geuss I can't start this till next week.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

I'm looking forward to it--

I'm new here, and I can't give a whole lot more input since I'm still learning the ins and outs of smash, but as a low tier main myself, I can say I'm excited to see some results from this thread... Low tiers need more representation.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I just played link(me vs mario for the last 30 minutes on DL64 I play as a lot of people. I'm glad you bumped this.

but results even well thought out like this can lie because people don't play to win that offen.

 

[ETWIST51294]

green smileyface = ICG

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

I like green very sexy however red is also http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081028074323.htm

I like to flip thought my psychology book.

 

[sekars2012]

I know the Home Office has a maintenance requirement for the Tier 4 student visa and with the recent election I personally feel the minimum might increase. Also I feel that there will be some further tightening of the visa rules especially Tier 4 in the months following the election. Therefore it is important that you keep abreast of the changes to the immigration rules. The amount that they require I feel is below what you need to live, especially if you are not in student accommodations and even if you were in student accommodations the amount is probably the bare minimum.
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local movers in nyc
tax lien investments

 

[SSBMLahti]

I can't wait to see Pichu be ranked the highest

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

i'd need to match-up chart totally done. also in sub level metagame pichu is high tier. I mean a small group of people have their own metagame going on and if I made a tier list totally off of results for here pichu would be high not top but high fox is nearly unbeatable.

but if pichu can land the 1st upair, nair, up-smash, or grab fox is f***ed. But mindgames for God tier

 

[StealthyGunnar]

I know the Home Office has a maintenance requirement for the Tier 4 student visa and with the recent election I personally feel the minimum might increase. Also I feel that there will be some further tightening of the visa rules especially Tier 4 in the months following the election. Therefore it is important that you keep abreast of the changes to the immigration rules. The amount that they require I feel is below what you need to live, especially if you are not in student accommodations and even if you were in student accommodations the amount is probably the bare minimum.
******************
local movers in nyc
tax lien investments

lol wtf spam bot get super banned, pwned rofl

Good thread.

 

[Zodiac]

I think we should make one based on pure data and what each character is capable of (Excluding frame perfect play since its impossible) And make the list that way. then things things like jiggly puff being three spots higher than she should be wont happen.

 

[Derkis]

How can you both base something on "pure data" and also exclude certain things on the basis of requiring frame perfection. Somewhere down the line you have to make a subjective distinction concerning what's frame perfect and what's not, and your conclusions will no longer be based on data alone.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

pichu>kirby is based off of data

 

[BunBun]

Lol you can think that all you want. It doesn't change the fact that it's wrong.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Let's both laugh at my pain together OK. one of the few matches I lost at a recent smashfest was against kirby. I picked fox SDed twice and lost again. F***ing tech chase.

I just suck

 

[ryuu seika]

I told you Kirby was better than you ICG.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RolyIiN-QE&feature=related

 

[BunBun]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDo2Tsvih6I

I can post videos that prove neither point also!

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx8M9WqCvCk&feature=related

top this : P
I know i'm just making fun of that guy so many noobs in the kirby boards.

 

[Signia]

omg so offtopic

tier lists based on matchup chart numbers has been done many times.

is it just me does it seem like most smashers have no awareness of other FG communities?

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

the problem with that is that means sheik is th ebest but can never win. Some matches are worthless. sheik gets f***ed up byfox, falco, puff and ice climbers and destroys everyone esle by a landslide.

Saying sheik is the best is a bad because sheik doesn't win. Metagame is more than bottom tier match-ups. It's largely from new tactics or tactics not being countered. low tier metagame never moved the higher metagame moved sheik didn't keep up sheik is like th elow tiers in that way. behide in what metagame sheik should be.

 

[Signia]

you could make that chart but just not include the negligible characters

 

[bryu_1337]

Saying Sheik is the best character is as simple as saying she has the best match-ups in the game. If no players are good enough to win with her often on a national scale, then so be it. I saw Amsah come in a wreck the most of the U.S. at Pound 4.

Peach doesn't have the best match-ups, but Armada is one of the best players in the world. Does this mean Peach should be higher on the tier list? No, it doesn't and rightfully so, she isn't top tier, even though Armada is an elite player. Many melee players are willing to say that one or two players being really good with a character is not necessarily enough to warrant the character being high on the tier list. However, this is doesn't mean that the character in question shouldn't be on top of the tier list. If Sheik has the best match-ups but doesn't always place well at tournaments, then shouldn't we realize that the top level Sheik players just aren't as good as the other players? Yes, we should.

Now, if we were to do what you're saying and combine the rankings chart with the match-ups chart then I think we may see an overall picture that is more appeasing to the community. Jiggs should still be pretty high and everyone can still john about her and fox/falco will probably be number 1, which paints a similar picture to the tier list we currently have. The only problem I see with this is that Jiggs will be way higher than she should be because of Hbox and Mang0 winning the biggest tournaments. Fox and falco have higher numbers on the rankings chart because of their frequency in tournaments and because of the frequency of placings based on the amount of usage. Jiggs has a high number because Hbox or Mango have won every national this year and last year. If you take these 2 players out of it, Jiggs probably falls into a place similar to her placement on the last tier list. With the exception of a handful of players, Fox and Falco don't place too high at nationals either. Look at Pound 4 (Because people ***** about Apex being a National) 1. Puff/Falco 2. Puff 3. Sheik 4. Peach 5. Marth/Sheik/Fox 5. Fox. After this, there are a bunch of different characters, the majority of which are fox/falco. There is only one pure spacies main in top 5 at Pound 4 and that's Jman, yet the sheer amount of spacies in the top 48 sway the rankings chart drastically, just how the placing of 2 jiggs mains sways her ranking drastically. IMO, no one has any reason to say Jiggs is the best character based upon what is essentially the placement of 2 players. At Pound 4, the other Jiggs main, Darc, finished tied for 33, which is last of the bracketed players. Still impressive when looking at the magnitude of the tournament, but not impressive when everyone says she is the best character.

Probably no one is going to agree with me, but it's whatever. I just don't think that character usage necessarily dictates placement on a tier list. I don't think the last tier list was absolutely correct, but I think they were pretty close.

 

[Shoopman]

BunBun please teach me the ways of the Kirby in three sentences or less.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

bryu I stopped reading your post after the 2nd paragrapg you didn't notice that's what i did did you?I ranking how valueable some match-ups are.

No sheik isn't the best mainly because most people don't play as the s***t charcters sheik counters. If pichu counters MH should he be called better than when we didn't have MH? He counters MH harder than kirby does because of his ease of moving kirby needs 3 jumps to get on top of platforms and junk.

some matches are worth more. also sheik is countered by all the best chartcers.

 

[BunBun]

BunBun please teach me the ways of the Kirby in three sentences or less.

Upthrow(and waveland out of it) most characters if you're below a platform so you can techchase with uair. Space fairs like a god. Counterpick Rainbow Cruise, get a stock up and Uthrow suicide off the top for the remainder of the match.

 

[t3h Icy]

The problem with basing Melee's Tier List on match-ups is that most of the match-ups that ranks Sheik so high are characters that are very, very rarely in the brackets at major tournaments. Even weighting the chart resulted in Sheik being 2nd (under Fox).

I agree with everything else you said though.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i think a tier list based on match-ups would be better weighed against CRL as i did in my Tournament Viability Ranking. That is, weighing the match-up by how likely it is to happen in the top 8 of a tournament. I think the results came out quite good, even though I didn't finish the chart for lower tiered characters

 

[-Darc-]

Darc, finished tied for 33, which is last of the bracketed players. Still impressive when looking at the magnitude of the tournament, but not impressive when everyone says she is the best character.

I also lost to Darkrain and Silentspectre in that tourney.

33rd by itself means nothing. I got 13th at Apex II losing to M2K and Dr. PP who got 3rd and 4th respectively.

Numbers mean nothing. They only give a general idea of what actually went on.

 

[Shoopman]

Upthrow(and waveland out of it) most characters if you're below a platform so you can techchase with uair. Space fairs like a god. Counterpick Rainbow Cruise, get a stock up and Uthrow suicide off the top for the remainder of the match.

Haha thanks. I actually have an interest in Kirby. If I ever see you at a national we have to play a few sets.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

WTF you simply spam a few moves and camp that's all you really need to know as kirby

 

[ryuu seika]

Yeah, Kirby is kinda spammy. It's knowing what to spam when that matters though.

That and camping depends on how well you feel it will do you. You don't sit there and camp if they're unable to deal with your combos for example, you chase them with ariels and Ftilts/Smashes. If, on the other hand, they punish your attacks, you sit back and punish theirs instead. Simple no?

 

[BunBun]

Please don't listen to ICG or Ryuu for Kirby advice.

ICG and Ryuu: Please stop giving advice for characters you don't know how to play.

 

[BunBun]

Granted, Ryuu's advice was very general and legit lol xD

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

his reasoning was based on of mine. Kirby is the most forward charcter to play as. not as simple of an idea as maybe marth but he's the simplest.