Haven't seen it posted yet, probably already has been, but just in case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=530U-ZMz0Xk&feature=sub
WTF is this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=530U-ZMz0Xk&feature=sub
WTF is this?
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Thunder Cancel?
- Thread starter OverLade
- Start date
its looks nice and I can't explain how its done, I tried it out and it doesn't work for me after a long time testing :/ Strange is, the Attacks in the video are doing more damage than Damage Calculation D: (Thunder full Hit, 2 Lightnings and Upsmash + QAC and Uair = 113% and in the Vid 115%.
Is someone able to reproduce this? I'm sceptic =P
E: ok someone could reproduce this but my calculation are less than in the vid! xD
Is someone able to reproduce this? I'm sceptic =P
E: ok someone could reproduce this but my calculation are less than in the vid! xD
I was able to repoduce it two or three times.
You have to do the footstool than its easier to get.
Maybe other moves were stale.
I think some moves get more powerful, if they arent used. (opposite of stale)
Maybe the usmash was loaded a bit?
You have to do the footstool than its easier to get.
Maybe other moves were stale.
I think some moves get more powerful, if they arent used. (opposite of stale)
Maybe the usmash was loaded a bit?
Tell the truth, you love pikachu x3
btw, I've tried it... I think only Lucario (and maybe some other chars) gets all those hits because of his stand up animation, but idk if it depends by his % or something else.
BTW Lucario can DI the footstool and maybe SDI when hitted by the quick attack so he can move farther from pikachu and (maybe) avoid this (not soooo sure about the last one, I'll try).
bigman40
Smash Master
It was already figured out last night when it was posted. When Lucario stands up, the thunder is hitting multiple times. How many hits you'll land varies on the timing of when you get thunder to hit with them standing up.
ShadoFiend
Smash Lord
Its still ********. But not as ******** as the Icees glitch.
But ingame I dont see anyone getting hit by this other than in teams.
But ingame I dont see anyone getting hit by this other than in teams.
altairian
Smash Lord
The footstool combo has been performed plenty of times in real games, ending it with this thunder cancel simply relies on being able to land right next to your opponent (which is practically a given). It's not something that will be done regularly by any means, but don't be surprised when you see people pulling it off. It's certainly easier to land than getting the timing on someone grabbing the ledge.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
NOW I'm gonna pick up Marth.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Vid from the research thread since apparently we're talking about it here now.....
In the future, though, look before making a new topic. This was posted in two other places. -_-
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/530U-ZMz0Xk&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/530U-ZMz0Xk&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
In the future, though, look before making a new topic. This was posted in two other places. -_-
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
I've been messing with this last night and I think it happens when you hit them with QA on certain frames after they hit the ground from the footstool. For Lucario, you basically want to hit him with QA immediately after he hits the ground then buffer a thunder to get the 4 hits. The damage from thunder does 10.5% (fresh) for each bolt that hits, that's 42% if every bolt hits. The number of thunder hits varies on character and the timing of your QA when they hit the ground. For MK, you have to hit him with QA on frames 12-16 after he hits the ground to get the multiple hits. But with MK I was only able to hit him twice with thunder instead of the four I got on Lucario. Also, you can only follow up with an attack if the thunder hits 4 times. This isn't really a thunder cancel. Pikachu still suffers the same thunder lag, it's just that the multiple hits from thunder slows the opponent down and keeps them in place for you to follow up with an attack. I wouldn't hype this AT. Sure it looks nice, but it's incredibly hard to pull off intentionally and it's very easy to SDI out of the thunder hits. If you're good with SDI, then only one bolt should hit you. I'd still go for the fsmash or QA/Jab locks if I footstool.
The number of thunder hits varies on character and the timing of your QA when they hit the ground. For MK, you have to hit him with QA on frames 12-16 after he hits the ground to get the multiple hits. But with MK I was only able to hit him twice with thunder instead of the four I got on Lucario. Also, you can only follow up with an attack if the thunder hits 4 times. This isn't really a thunder cancel. Pikachu still suffers the same thunder lag, it's just that the multiple hits from thunder slows the opponent down and keeps them in place for you to follow up with an attack. I wouldn't hype this AT. Sure it looks nice, but it's incredibly hard to pull off intentionally and it's very easy to SDI out of the thunder hits. If you're good with SDI, then only one bolt should hit you. I'd still go for the fsmash or QA/Jab locks if I footstool.AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I think it has something to do with when the character gets up or something along those lines.
GunmasterLombardi
Smash Champion
I c wut ya did thar.I've been messing with this last night and I think it happens when you hit them with QA on certain frames after they hit the ground from the footstool. For Lucario, you basically want to hit him with QA immediately after he hits the ground then buffer a thunder to get the 4 hits. The damage from thunder does 10.5% (fresh) for each bolt that hits, that's 42% if every bolt hits.
I'm sure DR is harder though.
Pikabunz
Smash Hero
What's DR?
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
imo SDI is going to thankfully mess this up, it always does with things like this.
Edit: K Prime beat me to it.
Edit: K Prime beat me to it.
noradseven
Smash Lord
Ahh a forced getup glitch, I wonder if they can SDI during the time when the thunder is hitting them though, still though doesn't really look hard to do, forced get up combos have been standard for a while in brawl now.
KayLo!
Smarter than your average wabbit.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
arg ok lemme answer some questions.
is the thunder canceling?
NO it isnt. what is happening is based off of how hitlag works in brawl. when you hit something, both you and the target enter a state called hit lag. in this state, both the attacker and the defender freeze. this is when SDI happens. after that hitstun is entered and regular physics apply. pikachus thunder is unique, in that any hitlag applied to thunder is not directly applied to pikachus animations. this is something i noticed way back when i found thunair. when the thunder hits, the bolt and the enemy enter hitlag, and bot freeze. pikachu keeps going through his animations normally. as it hits multiple times, the thunder keeps pausing while pikachus keeps following through with the animation. the fun thing about thunder is normally the thunder hitbox ends only a few frames before pikachu can move. with the hitlag from teh multiple hits slowing down thunder though, pikachu appears to exit out of the thunder animation before the thunder hitbox and consequent hit lag ends, allowing him to directly combo out of thunder. this is how all of these wonky thunder combos work. you can see it happen when someone tries to punish you out of thunder, and they just barely nick the last hitbox. you can actually combo directly out of that single hit if you notice it fast enough.
as to whats going on with multiple thunder hits, thats something i have never been able to directly determine. here are the facts: multiple thunder hits work on everyone in the game, but are more effective on taller characters. the multiple thunder hit is ONLY present at the base of the thunder. i have never seen someone get hit multiple times when they are off the ground. this base either occurse when it hits the ground or its within pikachu immediately following it hitting him. my main use of thunair (Seen in the vids i will link) all occur after the opponent grabs a ledge, uses the IF frames to survive through the initial hit, then let themselves stay too long and get stuck within pikachu, right where the base of the thunder bolt hits. thunder seems to be composed of multiple individual bolts that all come down in the exact same place, aparently as one bolt. anyone who uses thunder on a moving SV platform easily sees the multiple bolts. something about the base of the bolt seems to refresh the thunder hitbox, allowing it to hit multiple times, this has come through my own limited testing. other then that the specifics are unknown to me.
that sums up my current knowledge atm. this is a very interesting setup, and i am definitly going to look further into this.
is the thunder canceling?
NO it isnt. what is happening is based off of how hitlag works in brawl. when you hit something, both you and the target enter a state called hit lag. in this state, both the attacker and the defender freeze. this is when SDI happens. after that hitstun is entered and regular physics apply. pikachus thunder is unique, in that any hitlag applied to thunder is not directly applied to pikachus animations. this is something i noticed way back when i found thunair. when the thunder hits, the bolt and the enemy enter hitlag, and bot freeze. pikachu keeps going through his animations normally. as it hits multiple times, the thunder keeps pausing while pikachus keeps following through with the animation. the fun thing about thunder is normally the thunder hitbox ends only a few frames before pikachu can move. with the hitlag from teh multiple hits slowing down thunder though, pikachu appears to exit out of the thunder animation before the thunder hitbox and consequent hit lag ends, allowing him to directly combo out of thunder. this is how all of these wonky thunder combos work. you can see it happen when someone tries to punish you out of thunder, and they just barely nick the last hitbox. you can actually combo directly out of that single hit if you notice it fast enough.
as to whats going on with multiple thunder hits, thats something i have never been able to directly determine. here are the facts: multiple thunder hits work on everyone in the game, but are more effective on taller characters. the multiple thunder hit is ONLY present at the base of the thunder. i have never seen someone get hit multiple times when they are off the ground. this base either occurse when it hits the ground or its within pikachu immediately following it hitting him. my main use of thunair (Seen in the vids i will link) all occur after the opponent grabs a ledge, uses the IF frames to survive through the initial hit, then let themselves stay too long and get stuck within pikachu, right where the base of the thunder bolt hits. thunder seems to be composed of multiple individual bolts that all come down in the exact same place, aparently as one bolt. anyone who uses thunder on a moving SV platform easily sees the multiple bolts. something about the base of the bolt seems to refresh the thunder hitbox, allowing it to hit multiple times, this has come through my own limited testing. other then that the specifics are unknown to me.
that sums up my current knowledge atm. this is a very interesting setup, and i am definitly going to look further into this.
Blackrider213
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2009
- Messages
- 180
What does IF stand for? Did you mean invincibility frames? I bet that's what you meant by IF frames, but you added frames twice, thus confusing me. But if it stands for something else, I would like to know.
Stealth Raptor
Smash Legend
yeah invincibility frames. i just add frames on the end without thinking. and bah need to add those thunair vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wtrdY5-jOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cY3TzCgRmY last kill
oh yeah another thing to add and more support for the multiple bolt part of thunder, go to picto chat, wait for the transformation to show up that has a bunch of walls go from vertical to horizontal (like one is horizontal, one has a slight tilt, one has more, and so on till the last is vertical) and use thunder on one of the slanted walls. you will see the thunder seperate out into individual bolts and then hit you normally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wtrdY5-jOw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cY3TzCgRmY last kill
oh yeah another thing to add and more support for the multiple bolt part of thunder, go to picto chat, wait for the transformation to show up that has a bunch of walls go from vertical to horizontal (like one is horizontal, one has a slight tilt, one has more, and so on till the last is vertical) and use thunder on one of the slanted walls. you will see the thunder seperate out into individual bolts and then hit you normally
Legendary Pikachu
Smash Ace
Yoshi main terminology (yays for me seconding yoshi... ^_^) for 'drag[c]onic reversal' or something along those lines referring to the same thing--unless i am utterly mistaken
.
bigman40
Smash Master
Bleh.....I didn't think someone would literally compare this to DR.....Anyways, DR - known as Draconic Reverse (We call it Dragonic Reverse) - is a method that cancels Yoshi's movements by canceling the double jump with an attack within a certain amount of frames. This enables Yoshi to maneuver faster than normal (slower than a dashdance but much less limited than a dashdance), and it can allows him to slide into certain positions to attack which he normally can't.
saviorslegacy
My avater is not a Sheik avatar.
This has to do with the waking frame.
Basically from my understand the game is still reading that he is on the ground but he is up.
Thus resulting in getting PWN'd.
Here is another example that I found recently for Sheik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INB55NACgRc
He is bouncing off of the wall. lol
Technically, you could infi lock someone when they force wake up and you hit them with a constant hit box.
Luckily for Sheik we have a Chain. Poor everyone else.
Thanks for the idea Pikachu boards. I'll get back to you on this.
Basically from my understand the game is still reading that he is on the ground but he is up.
Thus resulting in getting PWN'd.
Here is another example that I found recently for Sheik: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INB55NACgRc
He is bouncing off of the wall. lol
Technically, you could infi lock someone when they force wake up and you hit them with a constant hit box.
Luckily for Sheik we have a Chain. Poor everyone else.
Thanks for the idea Pikachu boards. I'll get back to you on this.