Threats from the ICs.

[Shaya]

Good morning.

In my town of Sydney, not born, but raised,
there's a smash scene, which I try to spend most of my days...
oh stuff it.

Anywho, our tournament scene has had an underdog guy who's feared due to the last tourney coming from nowhere and coming 2nd with Olimar.

THIS time around though, he's been practicing with a new character; his Olimar pretty much had nothing against Marth and his shexy sword.

This new 'character' is the Ice Climbers. And I am scared.
Death threats are coming in on a continual basis about 'watch out' or I'll "CHAIN GRABZ U".

Unfortunately this at the moment is perfectly tourney legal and I'm curious to get a synopsis of what Marth can effectively do against the IC's death grabs. I vsed his IC's before his more impeding death threats came around, and it was dangerous already. I had to 'allow' myself to be damaged to around 50% so I could at least move a bit more freely without not being grabbed to those percents (and being anywhere near the edge causing serious heart failures).

But yes, now the threats seem stronger and I'm left to go "wait, what do we do now?" It seems there's a new death grab coming from the ICs every other week.

Can Marth really DI out of his chaingrabs easily or? Am I in a spiral of defeat?
;_;.

Thanks

 

[Battousai780]

Don't get grabbed... and if he just started playing Ice, he'll find out soon enough that doing the chaingrab isn't the hard part.

 

[Megavitamins]

ICs IMO are an easy match up. It may just be I'm not playing a decent IC, idk.

anyways, I believe Ice climbers chain grab cannot be escaped if they do it perfectly, and lets assume he has it down pat. So, the game pretty much revolves around spacing / seperating / killing nana, and, trying not to get grabbed. Marth is great at this, because obviously he has very safe approaches if you space well. spaced Fair pressure is great, and I personally find D-tilt pretty useful in this match up, because of its good range, and the fact that if it misses you can't get punished too badly thanks to massive IASA frames on it. All I know, I'm not really too expierienced in that match up. Hope I helped

 

[Battousai780]

If you lose, counter pick the Pirate ship if Ice Mountain is banned. Ice Mountain is awesome though vs IC.

 

[Cloudstealth]

Seriously, don't let yourself get damaged, there's no safe percent. There's someone in my crew who plays IC and he can 0-death (this includes any percent you get grabbed at) in one grab.

So like Battousai said, don't get grabbed. Try using the Dancing Blade into him, and end with the down one that hits multiple times. If he's running at you just walk back and Dancing Blade, it's all about hitting him with Dacing Blade.

The reason I say this is not because Dancing Blade is spammable, does decent damage, or hits after Sidesteps and grab attempts. The main reason is that Nana (the pink ice climber) gets hit ALOT by it, and when she's getting hit you really can't get chaingrabbed past 30% by Popo (blue one) alone.

So just hitting Nana away with Dancing Blade works well.

More than that just play defensive, don't do stuff that gets you grabbed.

 

[crazn137]

This fight is going to be all about spacing and killing nana. Space yourself well and don't get grabbed. Remember: Getting grabbed means losing a stock. Like someone else said, dtilt to set up for anything you want. Your main concern is going to be seperating Popo from Nana. I usually rely on dtilt to a down DB combo, or dtilt to a tippered fair. Do whatever you need to do to get the two ICs away from eachother. Once they split up, just go to gimp Nana. Worry more about Popo getting close to you more than gimping Nana. Don't ignore him or you'll end up getting a smash attack to the face. just swat him away with fair until you succesfully kill Nana. Once he's down to one IC, the game is pretty much decided right there. Its just a simple game of spacing and gimping. Once Popo loses the second jump, the stock is yours. Hope I helped ^_^

 

[Shaya]

Even though I'm happy with the general response I was more interested in what things can be done once you're grabbed. Depending on what grab approach they go for I'm sure there are some ways to get out of it. (Like the forward grab? being just a jump out of at above 50%).

Damaging and seperating are generally not too over-intensive, it's just the fact that you have to live on the line of death always, 'one mess up, one grab', and you're finished. It just doesn't seem like the best situation to be in, getting grabbed isn't the hardest thing in the world.

And yeah, without chain grabbing ICs is a very easy match up.

 

[Mighty_mo76]

Ice Climbers are hard and easy at the same time. It's just weird playing them.

But if you keep most of your focus on Popo and don't let your opp breath, it isn't any different from any other matchup. They all require a bit of thinking and some Maple Syrup.

I picked them up for a couple matches and found they have decent aerials, but crappy grab range. So keep yo distance, OK?

 

[Battousai780]

Even though I'm happy with the general response I was more interested in what things can be done once you're grabbed. Depending on what grab approach they go for I'm sure there are some ways to get out of it. (Like the forward grab? being just a jump out of at above 50%).

Damaging and seperating are generally not too over-intensive, it's just the fact that you have to live on the line of death always, 'one mess up, one grab', and you're finished. It just doesn't seem like the best situation to be in, getting grabbed isn't the hardest thing in the world.

And yeah, without chain grabbing ICs is a very easy match up.

No, one you're grabbed, if they can do it correctly, you're screwed. I, however, would mash buttons just in case they arent fast enough.

 

[Cloudstealth]

When your grabbed be ready to tech roll away, as at like 50% they might try to spike you into the stage, and start spamming Icicles so they can get you in the jab lock, from there your automatically going to stand up normal and get grabbed again.

So at when they spike you, tech for your life.

Also at low percent, spin the joystick really fast and hit the buttons. Breaking out of a grab fast is your only chance. Spinning the joystick counts as 10 button presses so don't stop spinning.

 

[_Kadaj_]

The others just about hit the nail on the head except for one thing... They CAN easily get combo'd! Once both are off stage you can f-air > footstool > d-air ending with nana being footstool'd and d-air'd and popo helplessly using up-b and going nowhere.

But in all actuality that combo will not be availible at all times.

Ic's are fairly suseptible to being juggled in the air. Similar to Snake There isn't much of anything that the ic's can do except for air dodge or to try and d-air which can be counter acted with either a well spaced b-air or u-air (assuming you want to keep the ic's airborne if not f-airs can work in some cases considering how they DI). Wether you are keeping ic's airborne or seperating nana always remeber that you can 90% of the time avoid being grabbed by using well spaced f-airs, d-tilts,f-tilts (use conservativly you don't want them trying to anticipate when you are going to use this), jabs (only the 1st one and keep the same thing in mind while using jabs as you would using f-tilts), n-airs, retreating f-airs, and also retreating b-airs.

Also a really great way to shut down your opponents aireal game is to jab when they become airborne this does to things 1) obviously stops your opponent from attacking and 2) allows you to come in with f-air or dancing blade whichever your forte is.

Another approach that can be use are single f-airs preferably fast falled single f-airs

I say they are much like Snake in terms of being juggled bcuz Snake is limited as to what he can come down with.

I hope I've helped you in your quest for ****** ic's lol

 

[__V]

You don't even need to kill one of them. Just keep them separated...

 

[Royal Altean]

Something to note...

Tippers are especially important, and pretty easy vs IC

Reason? If you tip, you usually only tip one of them. Hence, one flies significantly farther than the other, and thus they are seperated.

Viola.

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you get grabbed and Nana is around....

YOU

WILL

DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Don't get grabbed son.

Or better yet, kill Nana BEFORE you get grabbed.

 

[SummerObsession]

If you get caught in their grab you won't escape it unless they mess up.

This is how I deal with the IC. I approach with very well spaced F-air, and punish with DB. Well placed F-air won't get you grabbed. When I hit them and they get separated I rush Nana and damage her as much as I can, so she has much higher percentage than popo. So the next time I hit them, Nana will fly farther than popo which will be a huge advantage as I can just go rush Nana again and possibly gimp her. Or I can focus my attacks on only Popo. I prefer going after Nana as its much safer. Once Nana falls he's basically lost a stock.

One thing I like to do is after seperating Nana from Popo is to pretend to rush Nana, Popo will run to her aid right on your tail, I then turn around and Fair popo as he thinks I'm focused on going after Nana. When popo gets knocked even farther away from Nana the more time I get to beat on her. The higher the difference between the two IC the better as the more they will be seperated when you hit them.

 

[VietGeek]

Just to throw in something random in here...

You know of that Ken Combo thing, that Fair to some sort of Dair that like spikes them to their death or something? But, you know, there's like no hitstun in Barlwz, so that combo doesn't work on anyone decent, right?

Yup, but guess what? Nana (or Popo if the guy is playing as Nana, err, just the CPU counterpart of the ICs) isn't very bright. She sandbags a lot, only to reveal her power if you star KO her...companion. That being said, she doesn't airdodge or DI very well.

She falls for the Ken Combo. For comic relief. You can chain how many Fairs you want, but as long as you're diagonal of her, do that Dair and she'll die, Melee style.

Now run away like a wuss and go back to Dtilting stuff as Popo tries to beat you up.

 

[crazn137]

If you get grabbed and Nana is around....

YOU

WILL

DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Don't get grabbed son.

Or better yet, kill Nana BEFORE you get grabbed.

He speaks the truth.

 

[Pierce7d]

I just picked up IC the other day (Don't worry, I still main Marth, and they're not even close to tourney ready yet. I can't do anything reliably, I'm just decent with them)

Uh, I think that between your common sense and everything else said here, you know what to do. If you get grabbed though, TRY TO BREAK FREE!!! This is the most neglected feature of almost every smash player, because they are expecting their opponent to throw them before they break free, and think it of no consequence. Actually, if you're good, you'll break out pretty **** fast at low %s.

Also, if you get caught, your best bet is to spam Dolphin Slash. If you're chain spiked at the edge of the stage, DI into the stage and try to catch a tech (unlikely, but possible) AND try to meteor cancel.