Third Party Discussions only

[Deleted member]

Was there any reason as to why we cannot include two Namco characters?
Hypothetically, if Square gets a character wouldn't Cloud technically have the spot? He's appeared in Kingdom Hearts Re:Coded and Theatrhythm so he's technically been on Nintendo consoles. Otherwise I'd give it to Sora and then Geno.

Technically, anything could happen.

The reason why we won't get two Namco characters is because licensing and fitting in the third-party characters is still a nightmare to fit in and Sakurai's extremely high standards towards third-party additions. Another thing is that, with the possible exception of Pac-Man, Namco characters just aren't going to make the cut.

 

[finalark]

Was there any reason as to why we cannot include two Namco characters?
Hypothetically, if Square gets a character wouldn't Cloud technically have the spot? He's appeared in Kingdom Hearts Re:Coded and Theatrhythm so he's technically been on Nintendo consoles. Otherwise I'd give it to Sora and then Geno.

Nintendo is pretty sore over that whole "originally FFVII was gonna be a beast ass N64 exclusive but PS1 is better so k thnx bye."

Plus Cloud is a minor footnote in those games. It's like saying that Spider-Man should have a spot because he was a secret character in Tony Hawk 2 which was on Nintendo 64.

Not to mention I really doubt that Nintendo wants a character primarily associated with PlayStation in one of their major titles. Granted, Snake was in Brawl but he was added in as a favor for Kojima and Nintendo's relationship with Konami hasn't been nearly as rocky as their relationship with Square.

 

[volbound1700]

Actually to people saying Miyamoto doesn't have any power...

Imagine Smash without Mario characters, Zelda characters, Pikmin characters, or Donkey Kong.

Yes, they are all Miyamoto creations and he could pull them from the series.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Miyamoto doesn't have a say in who gets added. That is up to Sakurai. Obviously if he wanted to be a huge prick he could take out almost half the roster and ruin a series that the company he works for thrives on for a whole lot of revenue.

But why the hell are we talking about that? Better yet, why would he ever do that?

 

[volbound1700]

Why would Sakurai tell Miyamoto no I don't want to do XXX to the game if Miyamoto pushes him to put something in the game out of fun? Chances are Sakurai would like the idea. I don't think in any way Sakurai would tell Miyamoto no if Miyamoto came up and said you should add Pac-Man to the game lol. They are likely friends.

I also was simply responding to people saying Miyamoto has no power and Sakurai can do what he likes with the game. Smash Brothers wouldn't even be a series if not for the IP that Miyamoto created and developed for Nintendo.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

I'd like to think that Namco would be allowed to pick which character that they wanted to represent their company, not Miyamoto. Maybe if it were Miyamotos character, but not someone elses.

 

[volbound1700]

Well obviously Nintendo would have to approach Namco about it but I don't see Namco saying no, especially since they are already working on the game.

I don't get the point that any of you are trying to make in the past few pages about Miyamoto and Sakurai. I honestly do not. My comment is this and I still stand by it, if Iwata, Miyamoto, or any other major executive says something about Smash or hints about something in Smash, it is likely just as valuable as a quote from Sakurai himself.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

You could say that. But that doesn't mean that Iwata and Miyamoto are making the decisions or telling Sakurai what to do. There is a reason Sakurai is the head of the project.

Plus there isn't any evidence of what they have said having ANY effect on the game. Okay, sure Miyamoto said Sonic would be a nice addition to Smash, but that doesn't mean anything. I said the same thing. Didn't necessarily mean he was in it. Clearly I don't have any "influence" like Miyamoto has at Nintendo, but that's not the point.

Miyamoto isn't a part of the team. He can make a suggestion, but that's about it. He can't force Sakurai to do that, and saying this could happen is speculative bullcrap anyway.

Anyway, I really don't like the idea of Pac-Man getting in purely based on him being Pac-Man. That is a stupid reason to include a character. I still think Lloyd would be more interesting overall.

Also, I think it's obvious Namco will get something in the game, assumably a character. But that's just me.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I don't think Lloyed is an important enough character, regardless of whether he's interesting or not.

Is he even a repeating character in his series?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I don't think Lloyed is an important enough character, regardless of whether he's interesting or not.

Is he even a repeating character in his series?

Tales of Symphonia is one of the few Tales games to get a direct sequel.

Plus Lloyd appears in several Tales crossover games, and Soul Caliber: Legends as a guest character.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Is Professor Layton a third party or second party, because his games are published by Nintendo. I want a clear answer.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Is Professor Layton a third party or second party, because his games are published by Nintendo. I want a clear answer.

Third Party. They are only published by Nintendo in one region.

 

[Deleted member]

Is Professor Layton a third party or second party, because his games are published by Nintendo. I want a clear answer.

Layton is a third-party and his games are only published by Nintendo outside of Japan.

Having said that, he's not particularly likely due to being third-party and not being frequently requested, but his chances are decent for a third-party.

 

[volbound1700]

You could say that. But that doesn't mean that Iwata and Miyamoto are making the decisions or telling Sakurai what to do. There is a reason Sakurai is the head of the project.

Plus there isn't any evidence of what they have said having ANY effect on the game. Okay, sure Miyamoto said Sonic would be a nice addition to Smash, but that doesn't mean anything. I said the same thing. Didn't necessarily mean he was in it. Clearly I don't have any "influence" like Miyamoto has at Nintendo, but that's not the point.

Miyamoto isn't a part of the team. He can make a suggestion, but that's about it. He can't force Sakurai to do that, and saying this could happen is speculative bullcrap anyway.

Anyway, I really don't like the idea of Pac-Man getting in purely based on him being Pac-Man. That is a stupid reason to include a character. I still think Lloyd would be more interesting overall.

Also, I think it's obvious Namco will get something in the game, assumably a character. But that's just me.

Agree that Miyamoto would never force Sakurai to do that but technically if push came to shove, Miyamoto could totally ruin Smash by having Iwata remove Sakurai or at the very least pulling a lot of valuable IP from Smash which would likely kill the franchise.

As I said before, he would never do that and Sakurai would never treat Miyamoto in a way that would bring about that scenario. However, I totally disagree that Sakurai has free reign to do as he pleases and cannot answer to some of the Nintendo legends. Now with third parties and if they don't play by Sakurai's rules, yes he can just remove their franchises from the game. However, you cannot just remove Mario, Link, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Peach, etc. and expect Smash to survive.

 

[Spire]

Plus Cloud is a minor footnote in those games. It's like saying that Spider-Man should have a spot because he was a secret character in Tony Hawk 2 which was on Nintendo 64.

This is the best Anti-Cloud argument I've ever read. Gave me a good laugh.

Thanks finalark

 

[volbound1700]

I am surprised there isn't more support for Cloud among Smash fans.

 

[Spire]

I'd actually love to see Cloud make the cut because I have a soft spot for FF7, but that was the best Anti-Cloud argument ever. Final Fantasy is the third party series I want to see represented above all else, with Black Mage preferably.

 

[volbound1700]

I see Black Mage before Cloud. FF definitely could qualify, especially the early games but I think it has two bad things going for it:

1. No demand, I do not see much of a demand for any FF characters on any of the Smash related websites.

2. Playstation ties. Final Fantasy is more in bed with Sony then Nintendo when it comes to appearances on consoles and support. Then again the same can be said of Snake and MGS.

 

[finalark]

1. No demand, I do not see much of a demand for any FF characters on any of the Smash related websites.

As the guy who runs the FF thread on this forum I can honestly say that I have never seen anyone ask for an FF character inclusion as far as I can remember.

2. Playstation ties. Final Fantasy is more in bed with Sony then Nintendo when it comes to appearances on consoles and support. Then again the same can be said of Snake and MGS.

Apparently Sakurai and Kojima are bros, though. Or so I've heard. And Nintendo is still pretty bitter about Square ditching them as far as I know. Then again, they let Black Mage and White Mage show up in Mario Hoops so you never know.

 

[Omega-Smasher]

Personally, I do want Snake and Sonic to be removed for Smash 4 and introduce 4 entirely new Third-Parties to the franchise.

1: Travis Touchdown: The perfect replacement for Snake and he himself could be a very unique sword fighter with beam-katana moves and wrestling techniques. Not to mention Suda 51 also expressed desire to have Travis for Smash 4.

2: Lloyd Irving: After some research, I would want Lloyd over Pac-Man as the Namco representative. I haven't played Tales of Symphonia, but just give me a chance, he could be a good character.

3: Megaman: What's not to love about him, he is anyway the most talked Third-Party and the perfect replacement for Sonic. Attack pattern should be very simple with blasts and maybe a few moves from other robot masters. Only Concern: Just looks a bit like a Samus Clone.

4: Bomberman: Again haven't played any of the Bomberman games, but however, I do want Bomberman for the game. I mean he could be a long range fighter with bombs as his main use of attack. However, I also want him as a close-range fighter as well.

 

[Starcutter]

really don't want pac man as a playable character. his 3D design just looks meh. a common assist trophy from his 8-bit design though, sure.

Klonoa is a namco rep I really want to see.

 

[Shorts]

Going off of gut instinct alone.

Will we get any third party characters? (New or old)

 

[8-peacock-8]

Just ganna toss in a Devil's advocate.....SHOVEL KNIGHT!

K I'm done.

 

[Vintage Creep]

Just ganna toss in a Devil's advocate.....SHOVEL KNIGHT!

K I'm done.

Well, he would be nice as an assist.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Reflecting projectiles by shoveling them, Magic attacks, tons of potential alternate costumes, and we don't have a shovel user yet.

 

[the_savior21]

Megaman: everyone wants megaman I don't even know all that much about him but I want megaman in SSB4

Pacman: namco's número uno aside from the lack of potential move set he is a shoe in. They managed game and watch I think he will make it.

1 tekken character: hopefully Heihachi, Kazuya, Jin, Law or yoshimitsu. Namco's number 1 fighting franchise you can at least hope one will find his way to SSB4

Uzumaki Naruto, Uchiha Sauske or Hatake Kakashi: Another Namco/bandai fighting game I am hopeful

Kain Highwind from FFIV: his potential move set is very broad, Given it was the second final fantasy released in the states and Kain is one of the most widely know characters in the series (the most widely known in games released before FFVII) it's not to much I think to hope to see some square Enix in SSB4

Zero (Megaman) I like zero better then megaman, he has a sword enough said (she?)

A dragon ball z character: i kept seeing Goku or other dragon all z characters as what I assumed werea joke not necessarily in this thread but I have seen a few people hoping for DBZ characters. Honestly I hope to see at least one since the dragon ball z games are Namco/Bandai but I don't believe it will happen because it could be hard to scale their power down to fit in with the rest f the cast and still make fans happy. I don't care and a lot of others might not either I think it would be awesome to see some DBZ

Shadow the Hedgehog: single condition not a sonic clone. I like sonic I main sonic in brawl but they are so different I think someone earlier in the thread mentioned he could borrow so a moves and the spin.

Any other main FF character I.e. characters from FF Dissidia DLC? idc I'd buy it just wishful thinking on my part I have high hopes for character selection in SSB4

Edit* btw boot snake

 

[Roy-Kun]

Would it be a bit far-fetched if I were to say that I'd like to see a Shin Megami Tensei representative for Smash? More specifically, the SMTIV's Protagonist?

 

[Vintage Creep]

Would it be a bit far-fetched if I were to say that I'd like to see a Shin Megami Tensei representative for Smash? More specifically, the SMTIV's Protagonist?

I think it's not entirely impossible since IV is a 3DS exclusive (right?) and a cross-over with Fire Emblem is coming out.

 

[Neanderthal]

Technically, anything could happen.

The reason why we won't get two Namco characters is because licensing and fitting in the third-party characters is still a nightmare to fit in and Sakurai's extremely high standards towards third-party additions. Another thing is that, with the possible exception of Pac-Man, Namco characters just aren't going to make the cut.

What makes you think it's a nightmare to aquire the right to use Namco's characters?

I know zero about this area of law so I'm just guessing, but common sense tells me that if Namco are co-developing a game that they can put their own character into that game without any legal hoops. Surely such legal hoops should have already been jumped through when they came to an agreement to co-develop the game.

I mean.... does Namco now have to aquire the rights to every Nintendo character that they use in their co-developed game?

And they will sure as hell be desperate to give their little mascot his last chance to establish himself with the younger generation as his fanbase continues to age.

 

[Omega-Smasher]

It's a shame that Travis is always neglected .

I mean, I do want him, but only the future will tell.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Would it be a bit far-fetched if I were to say that I'd like to see a Shin Megami Tensei representative for Smash? More specifically, the SMTIV's Protagonist?

Not really. It's one of those that might happen at this point. But, it will most likely not sadly.

 

[volbound1700]

What makes you think it's a nightmare to aquire the right to use Namco's characters?

I know zero about this area of law so I'm just guessing, but common sense tells me that if Namco are co-developing a game that they can put their own character into that game without any legal hoops. Surely such legal hoops should have already been jumped through when they came to an agreement to co-develop the game.

I mean.... does Namco now have to aquire the rights to every Nintendo character that they use in their co-developed game?

And they will sure as hell be desperate to give their little mascot his last chance to establish himself with the younger generation as his fanbase continues to age.

Agreed with your comment. A lot of people don't understand the fact that Namco and Nintendo have not just gotten together on this game already but also other series like the Mario Kart series. It is really only difficult to add characters when the companies are hostile. Namco is not hostile to Nintendo at the moment and in fact we already have Namco working on the game so there is a correct assumption that they may give Sakurai access to their IP.

 

[Deleted member]

What makes you think it's a nightmare to aquire the right to use Namco's characters?

I know zero about this area of law so I'm just guessing, but common sense tells me that if Namco are co-developing a game that they can put their own character into that game without any legal hoops. Surely such legal hoops should have already been jumped through when they came to an agreement to co-develop the game.

I mean.... does Namco now have to aquire the rights to every Nintendo character that they use in their co-developed game?

And they will sure as hell be desperate to give their little mascot his last chance to establish himself with the younger generation as his fanbase continues to age.

Namco isn't going to be desperate to add one of their characters, not even Pac-Man. Considering that they are working on the game, they should surely be aware of how hard it is to fit third-parties into Smash. Just because they develop the game doesn't mean that integrating their world will be any easier of a task. Heck, a Tales and Tekken rep are pretty much being left up to Sakurai to decide whenever or not Sakurai wants to get them. Considering that they haven't even expressed interest in adding Pac-Man, there's nothing supporting that they will be desperate to add Pac-Man in.

Namco isn't special for working with Nintendo. Just because Namco is working with Sakurai does not mean that Sakurai will see an obligation to add Pac-Man into the game, let alone TWO Namco characters. Sakurai still makes the final call when it comes to adding third-party characters.

 

[Neanderthal]

Namco isn't going to be desperate to add one of their characters, not even Pac-Man. Considering that they are working on the game, they should surely be aware of how hard it is to fit third-parties into Smash. Just because they develop the game doesn't mean that integrating their world will be any easier of a task. Heck, a Tales and Tekken rep are pretty much being left up to Sakurai to decide whenever or not Sakurai wants to get them. Considering that they haven't even expressed interest in adding Pac-Man, there's nothing supporting that they will be desperate to add Pac-Man in.

Namco isn't special for working with Nintendo. Just because Namco is working with Sakurai does not mean that Sakurai will see an obligation to add Pac-Man into the game, let alone TWO Namco characters. Sakurai still makes the final call when it comes to adding third-party characters.

Why do you think it's "hard to fit third party characters into smash" if not for royalty issues?

Namco is definitely special for working with Nintendo. There's no denying it's a uniquely beneficial situation.
Just like if Capcom was working on the game we would consider your guy Megaman to be the closest thing to a given.

Namco would definitely want to add Pacman to the game no question.

Sakurai doesn't have to feel obliged to include him. If another game company co-develops SSB it, presents an amazing opportunity to include their hugely infamous mascot without the problems incurred during other third party acquisitions (that is if my assumptions about there being no need to acquire royalties is correct). Everybody wins, including Sakurai.

 

[volbound1700]

I have nothing to prove this but based on Sakurai's love for classical games (Kid Icarus, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers) I could see Sakurai wanting Pac-Man in the game. Sakurai more then likely played Pac-Man at the arcade as a kid.

 

[BluePikmin11]

With that statement, I think he could design Pac-Man the right way.
Just like Pit, who had an awesome look when he was revealed in Brawl.

 

[Knight Dude]

Are we still talking about Square Enix characters? Because I will say that Cloud is rather unlikely, given the lack of Nintendo games that feature him. I could see either Black/White Mage and maaaaaybe Sora, seeing as all three of them have a been featured prominently in some Nintendo games. I guess if you Really wanted to be hopeful Geno would be playable. But to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what's up with the rights to use him or Mallow. But it does seem rather obvious that alot of people want him to be playable, so maybe he can be the next Sonic in that regard.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I have nothing to prove this but based on Sakurai's love for classical games (Kid Icarus, Game & Watch, Ice Climbers) I could see Sakurai wanting Pac-Man in the game. Sakurai more then likely played Pac-Man at the arcade as a kid.

He never actually stated he loved classic games. All three characters were chosen for other reason.

 

[kikaru]

Are we still talking about Square Enix characters? Because I will say that Cloud is rather unlikely, given the lack of Nintendo games that feature him. I could see either Black/White Mage and maaaaaybe Sora, seeing as all three of them have a been featured prominently in some Nintendo games. I guess if you Really wanted to be hopeful Geno would be playable. But to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what's up with the rights to use him or Mallow. But it does seem rather obvious that alot of people want him to be playable, so maybe he can be the next Sonic in that regard.

If we're talking about Square Enix characters (While they have an incredibly low chance in the first place) I still believe that Geno would most likely get top priority. Sora would most definitely be an interesting character but if a Final Fantasy character were to appear then I will say, with great bias, that either Cecil or Onion Knight would be interesting additions as well.

 

[volbound1700]

He never actually stated he loved classic games. All three characters were chosen for other reason.

Where did I say in my post that Sakurai stated he liked classical games? I said based on the fact classic characters appear in his game. He did grow up during the heyday of Pac-Man and that cannot be underestimated.