Third Party Discussions only

[finalark]

Completely ignoring the fact that the support for characters like Lloyd Irving sky rocketed when it was revealed that the Tales team (They're among the namco guys working on Smash) was helping with SSB4 and when the one guy from the team talked about getting a character in Smash.

What makes for a better ad? Smash 4 featuring Lloyd or Smash 4 feature Jin Kazama?

You gotta boil it down to what would make each company the most amount of money.

EDIT: Hold on a second why the **** are the Tales team working on Smash? It's not an RPG. Frankly they should have the Tekken or SC team on the job.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

No. Saying that a relatively ignored-by-mainstream JRPG has a better chance of seeing a character than a well regarded fighting game series is nonsense. I'll agree with you on Pac-Man and Tekken having a higher possibility because Pac-Man is an icon and Tekken is more popular but Tales? No freaking way.

And don't bring up the inclusion of the Earthbound series as a counter argument. Mother is an in-house franchise from Nintendo and after filling their roster with characters from all of their A-list franchises it would make sense that they'd look to their more obscure stuff to expand the roster.

Think of it like this, who is the more likely SEGA character to get in? Sonic or Keil?

Tales is a huge series. In Japan and here as well. It is possibly the most successful JRPG series of all time (It's only real competition for the spot is Final Fantasy.

Sonic of course. Are you seriously asking that?

 

[FalKoopa]

EDIT: Hold on a second why the **** are the Tales team working on Smash? It's not an RPG. Frankly they should have the Tekken or SC team on the job.

You want to complain?

As for a Sega rep, Sonic of course. But seriously, who is Keil?

 

[8-peacock-8]

EDIT: Hold on a second why the **** are the Tales team working on Smash? It's not an RPG. Frankly they should have the Tekken or SC team on the job.

Does it matter? They're part of the team. Get over it.

 

[TheKalmarKing]

Plus Tales of is really popular in Japan. Tekken would actually be less likely if you ask me, too "realistic" (Even if there's Snake but then again Kojima was begging for it).

 

[finalark]

Tales is a huge series. In Japan and here as well. It is possibly the most successful JRPG series of all time (It's only real competition for the spot is Final Fantasy.

Links or it didn't happen. Outside of the internet I have never meet someone who is a Tales fan, so I'm pretty skeptical.

You want to complain?

I don't like the Tales series.

As for a Sega rep, Sonic of course. But seriously, who is Keil?

The protagonist of Panzer Dragoon.

Does it matter? They're part of the team. Get over it.

You don't call in a plumber to fix your TV.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Links or it didn't happen. Outside of the internet I have never meet someone who is a Tales fan, so I'm pretty skeptical.
.

I've met several.

Don't let personal bias get in the way of possibilities.

Why would Keil get in over Sonic?

You do if the plumber can fix both. The Tales team has promise. Give them a shot.

 

[8-peacock-8]

@finalark
So, because you don't like a series that means that it shouldn't have fans? Sad bias is sad.

 

[finalark]

I've met several.

Oh well.

Also, Dragon Quest is the best selling JRPG series in Japan, and I still want that link.

Don't let personal bias get in the way of possibilities.

I don't like Tekken either, but I still think it's much more possible to see a character from that than Tales.

Why would Keil get in over Sonic?

I never said that he would or that I wanted him to get in. I was just making an example.

You do if the plumber can fix both. The Tales team has promise. Give them a shot.

We'll see I suppose.

@finalark
So, because you don't like a series that means that it shouldn't have fans? Sad bias is sad.

I never said it can't have fans. Shenmue has a ****ton of fans whole clamor day and night for a third installment but that doesn't mean that Ryo is going to beat out Sonic as a SEGA rep.

 

[Deleted member]

Completely ignoring the fact that the support for characters like Lloyd Irving sky rocketed when it was revealed that the Tales team (They're among the namco guys working on Smash) was helping with SSB4 and when the one guy from the team talked about getting a character in Smash.

No it really hasn't. Sure Tales rep have gotten more popularity, but it still isn't highly requested with Mega Man, Geno and Pac-Man being more popular requests. Tales reps also have more detractors than supporters.

 

[Metal Overlord]

since when is a developer only limited to making one genre of games

 

[8-peacock-8]

@SSBFAN
I never said it was as high up as those guys you know. They just got a lot more support now.

 

[finalark]

since when is a developer only limited to making one genre of games

Its more that I was hoping Namco would get someone behind their fighting games to work on Smash instead of someone behind their RPGs.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Its more that I was hoping Namco would get someone behind their fighting games to work on Smash instead of someone behind their RPGs.

The Namco team is composed of many namco groups. One of them being the Tekken team. It's not just limited to the tales team.

 

[Deleted member]

@SSBFAN
I never said it was as high up as those guys you know. They just got a lot more support now.

The thing is, I don't see it being enough for us to get a Tales rep. I've already explained why I feel as Sakurai will turn down any non-Pac-Man Namco character and I feel as only massive demand for a specific Namco character would change that. I really don't see Pac-Man getting in by high demand (its super iconic status or bust for Pac-Man), especially when we don't even know if that will be enough for us to get Mega Man, so I don't see how having even less support for a Tales rep would make a difference.

 

[8-peacock-8]

The thing is, I don't see it being enough for us to get a Tales rep. I've already explained why I feel as Sakurai will turn down any non-Pac-Man Namco character and I feel as only massive demand for a specific Namco character would change that. I really don't see Pac-Man getting in by high demand (its super iconic status or bust for Pac-Man), especially when we don't even know if that will be enough for us to get Mega Man, so I don't see how having even less support for a Tales rep would make a difference.

Never said anything like that either. i was just pointing out that they have a lot more support now.

 

[Deleted member]

Never said anything like that either. i was just pointing out that they have a lot more support now.

I do admit we have seen some increase in the demand for a Tales rep, just not to that much extend. But we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Snakeyes]

Tales is a huge series. In Japan and here as well. It is possibly the most successful JRPG series of all time (It's only real competition for the spot is Final Fantasy.

Off the top of my head;

Dragon Quest
Pokemon
Monster Hunter
Final Fantasy
Kingdom Hearts

Tales is a B-rate JRPG series in the same popularity tier as stuff like Megami Tensei and Suikoden. Even the low budget Souls games have consistently sold more than the latest Tales games.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Whoops.

Can't believe I forgot all of those...

 

[finalark]

Bias does funny things.

I should know.

 

[volbound1700]

Remember that it is Sakurai that decides what third-parties get in. If Capcom was helping in making a roster, a Resident Evil character would be a real possibility, but they aren't. With third-parties being extremely difficult to put in and fit along with barely anyone requesting a Resident Evil character, I think Sakurai will pass on a Resident Evil character. So I wouldn't worry about us getting one.

I disagree with your comment about Miyamoto. He is a legend at Nintendo. I mean if he wanted, he could make Smash and have Sakurai removed. If Miyamoto wants Pac-Man in, he will be in. It was Miyamoto that stated Sonic would be a great character for Smash which is what got the Sonic support up before Brawl. Any comments from Miyamoto and Iwata are just as good as comments from Sakurai. After all this is a Nintendo game and Nintendo IP. Also, I don't see Sakurai telling a video game legend no if that guy wants a character in Smash 4.

In fact, I actually didn't know Pac-Man was one of Miyamoto's favorite characters that jumps his chances up even more in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm surprised that my big comment on Namco characters got mostly ignored until now. Was rather interested to see what other people brought up.

I disagree with your comment about Miyamoto. He is a legend at Nintendo. I mean if he wanted, he could make Smash and have Sakurai removed. If Miyamoto wants Pac-Man in, he will be in. It was Miyamoto that stated Sonic would be a great character for Smash which is what got the Sonic support up before Brawl. Any comments from Miyamoto and Iwata are just as good as comments from Sakurai. After all this is a Nintendo game and Nintendo IP. Also, I don't see Sakurai telling a video game legend no if that guy wants a character in Smash 4.

In fact, I actually didn't know Pac-Man was one of Miyamoto's favorite characters that jumps his chances up even more in my opinion.

Source?

Even if that is true, there is no evidence that Miyamoto had any part in Sonic's inclusion. It was Sakurai that went to get Sonic in Smash, so it's likely that Sonic's inclusion was Sakurai's decision alone. Kojima also did not practically beg to get Miyamoto to ask Sakurai to add Snake in Melee, Kojima asked Sakurai. Currently, we have nothing to support that third-parties inclusion was because of the Miyamoto factor.

I believe that the Miyamoto factor (where he has direct influence on the roster) only applies to Nintendo characters. Adding third-party characters is so much harder than adding a Nintendo character that its logical to assume that Sakurai exclusively decides on third-party characters. It's Sakurai that has to go through the legal process to add a character, not Miyamoto, so Sakurai clearly understands how hard it is to get third-parties (and let's face it, we definitely don't even begin to understand how difficult it is). Plus we have to remember that Sakurai directs the game, giving him the most control over how the game turns out. The most Miyamoto can do is suggest whatever third-party he wants and see whenever or not Sakurai wants said third-party.

As for Iwata, we have to remember that he gives Sakurai a lot of freedom as well. I won't deny that he has some influence, but I do not see Sakurai adding a third-party character that Iwata wants just because.

 

[volbound1700]

Here is the first link that came up when I googled from a previous blog on Smash Brawl: http://www.serebiiforums.com/archive/index.php/t-268627.html

You can also dig up the old Sonic thread on Brawl and go back to the days before he was announced because that was the major quote that led to the hype that he could be in the game.


Also I find it very hard to imagine a scenario where Miyamoto recognizes anything to Sakurai and Sakurai ignores it. Perhaps you live in Japan and know both of them but based on perception, Miyamoto is a stronger figure all-time at both Nintendo and the industry in general and is probably the most famous video game producer all-time. If he gives you advice about your game, you generally take it very seriously.

 

[FalKoopa]

Miyamoto is a legend at Nintendo, BUT Sakurai doesn't work for Nintendo. Miyamoto can't act on his whim go as far as having Sakurai removed.

Sakurai's company Sora ltd. is collaborating with Namco Bandai for Smash 4. Nintendo is just the publisher. I don't mean that Miyamoto or Nintendo don't have a say, but his power is being exaggerated too much.

 

[volbound1700]

It really isn't about power, it is about respect. I imagine Sakurai would have enough respect to take anything Miyamoto says seriously regarding Smash.

However, if you want to get into power argument. I might imagine that Miyamoto still has the power to pull Zelda, DK, Pikmin, and Mario franchises all away from Smash since he created those franchises.

 

[finalark]

Actually, if you want to talk about power Miyamoto can just shut the game down whenever he wants to.

 

[Metal Overlord]

pretty sure Sakurai can make his own decisions

 

[AnOkayDM]

Sonic will be back. I can't even think of a logical reason he wouldn't. He was pretty much the most requested character across the board. SEGA's not gonna say no and there's no real reason to believe he'd be cut.

Snake I'm not as sure about. Him being in always struck me as weird. Nevertheless, he's not in PSASBR, and Kojima will almost certainly want him back, so unless Sakurai doesn't, he'll probably return.

As for newcomers, I think Mega Man can basically be considered a shoe-in, assuming nothing goes horribly wrong, considering how highly-requested he is. Hell, I don't play Mega Man much and I want him in.

Beyond that, I'm not sure. I seem to be the only person who doesn't really care for the idea of Pac-Man, but if a Namco character makes it in, it will almost certainly be him.

I'd love to see Sora (I'd actually prefer Roxas >_<), but that will basically never happen (despite how well he'd fit in). I also think Ryu from Street Fighter would be a wonderful fit, if unlikely, and it's about time Simon Belmont was in a Smash game, but if Snake stays, I'm not sure how likely that is. I also wouldn't say no to another Sonic character, considering how many there are to draw from. Tails is the obvious choice for a secondary, but I'd prefer Knuckles and I think he'd fit better in a fighting game. Shadow could also be cool if done right. I think it'd be hilarious to see Layton, but I'd imagine they could do a good job. I also think Rayman would fit wonderfully into SSB4, and he does have moveset potential from Origins and Legends...plus Ubisoft has been very supportive of Nintendo with the Wii U. Nevertheless, I don't know if any of their characters, even Rayman, are truly Smash-worthy.

No matter what they do, I don't think it'll go over four third-parties. Maaaaybe five, but that's a stretch.

 

[Deleted member]

Also I find it very hard to imagine a scenario where Miyamoto recognizes anything to Sakurai and Sakurai ignores it. Perhaps you live in Japan and know both of them but based on perception, Miyamoto is a stronger figure all-time at both Nintendo and the industry in general and is probably the most famous video game producer all-time. If he gives you advice about your game, you generally take it very seriously.

But that doesn't necessarily mean Pac-Man will be in if Miyamoto ask because Sakurai does have the power to disagree. Even with Sakurai obviously respecting Miyamoto, Sakurai will still hold to his opinion. We don't know how Sakurai views Pac-Man. Even if Miyamoto is down with adding Pac-Man in Smash, if Sakurai doesn't want Pac-Man in, he will not add him.

And even then, we can't say for sure that Miyamoto even wants Pac-Man in Smash. Pac-Man might be Miyamoto's favorite character, but this doesn't mean he would push for Pac-Man's inclusion. Actually, this makes me wonder why Miyamoto didn't push for Pac-Man's inclusion back in pre-Brawl. Because surely Pac-Man being Miyamoto's favorite character would have meant inclusion in Brawl (either being prioritized over Sonic or being added as a 3rd third-party). Nothing definitive here, but this might indicate that Miyamoto may not care about Pac-Man being in Smash nearly as much as you think.

Snake I'm not as sure about. Him being in always struck me as weird. Nevertheless, he's not in PSASBR, and Kojima will almost certainly want him back, so unless Sakurai doesn't, he'll probably return.

Considering his disjointed hitbox, Snake really is a weird fit, but nevertheless worked out well. Given that Sakurai commented positively on third-parties in Brawl back in August, 2012, I think Sakurai wouldn't mind having Snake and Sonic back.

As for newcomers, I think Mega Man can basically be considered a shoe-in, assuming nothing goes horribly wrong, considering how highly-requested he is. Hell, I don't play Mega Man much and I want him in.

I wouldn't say he's a shoe-in, since after all, he's third-party. But if we are talking about third-party additions, he's by far the most likely.

Beyond that, I'm not sure. I seem to be the only person who doesn't really care for the idea of Pac-Man, but if a Namco character makes it in, it will almost certainly be him.

Trust me, you are not alone in not caring for Pac-Man (you're in good company with me for one). Many people who "support" Pac-Man do it based off the expectation of a Namco rep, so his popularity is pretty artificial, especially in comparison to most any potential newcomers (only other character that could argue to be "expected but not wanted" is Chrom and maybe Zoroark before Gen 6 reveal). We're probably not going to get a Namco character anyway, but like you said, Pac-Man is in if we get one.

 

[TheKalmarKing]

Hey, I want Pac-Man. He could be really cool in Smash Bros.

 

[Deleted member]

Hey, I want Pac-Man. He could be really cool in Smash Bros.

That's why I said "many", not "all".

 

[Frostwraith]

For Namco, the two most requested characters are Pac-Man and Lloyd. I don't know which of them is the most popular, but I'm aware of some arguments between supporters of each of the characters.

 

[AnOkayDM]

I think Pac-Man is more popular, considering until this thread, I'd never even heard of Lloyd being suggested.

 

[finalark]

My vote is still in for either Pac-Man or a Tekken character for Namco.

IMO a Soul Calibur character isn't out of the question either.

 

[Blazeth]

I think Nintendo should let Namco-Bandai have at least one character and I'd say if anyone should be in, it should be Lloyd.

Why?

Pac-Man, although a huge icon, hasn't had a popular game in YEARS and not only that, but Pac-Man really only does one thing in his most popular game, eat. To be fair though, Pac-Man Party was pretty heard of.

As for Lloyd Irving, he has had many games as of late, all having pretty good ratings. Not only that, but he has an amazingly perfect, yet unique move set perfect for Smash. It is pretty unlikely for him to appear honestly though.

I would also say someone from Square-Enix should be in, but I don't know who'd be better in there: Cloud Strife, Black Mage, Sora, or Geno. I guess overall Geno is the most likely just because of this popularity and his history.

 

[finalark]

I would also say someone from Square-Enix should be in, but I don't know who'd be better in there: Cloud Strife, Black Mage, Sora, or Geno. I guess overall Geno is the most likely just because of this popularity and his history.

If there's going to be a Square character in Smash Bros it will probably be Sora, if only because of popularity power and the fact that they've had a generous amount of KH games on Nintendo handhelds.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Pssshhh...

Yeah, you there...

Keep this between you and me ok?

...

Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[Blazeth]

Pssshhh...

Yeah, you there...

Keep this between you and me ok?

...

Banjo-Kazooie.

The only chance if any of Banjo-Kazooie getting in is on the handheld, and I highly doubt he'd be any more than DLC if he did somehow make his way to the game through the handhelds.

 

[kikaru]

Was there any reason as to why we cannot include two Namco characters?
Hypothetically, if Square gets a character wouldn't Cloud technically have the spot? He's appeared in Kingdom Hearts Re:Coded and Theatrhythm so he's technically been on Nintendo consoles. Otherwise I'd give it to Sora and then Geno.

 

[Blazeth]

Was there any reason as to why we cannot include two Namco characters?
Hypothetically, if Square gets a character wouldn't Cloud technically have the spot? He's appeared in Kingdom Hearts Re:Coded and Theatrhythm so he's technically been on Nintendo consoles. Otherwise I'd give it to Sora and then Geno.

If you give two characters to one company it kind of ruins the point.

I'm okay with multiple characters from the same third party, but I really don't think Namco-Bandai is the most deservant of it.