Third Party Discussions only

[TheCreator]

Holy **** if Nintendo bought Sega...I could see it now. A sonic game by the EAD team. That's it. Take my money. I'm donating.

 

[Wonks]

My predictions (at this point in time):

Sonic: This has to happen again...I think I might cry if it doesn't.
Snake: His absence from Battle Royale seems to hint at a return. I could also see Simon Belmont (or Bomberman at a 1% chance, now that he's owned by Konami) make an appearance, but I'm hedging my bets on a repeat performance.
Pac-Man: Would just make the most sense, and I think he'd have a lot of interesting moves.
Mega Man: Capcom's Rockman Redeption
Rayman: Ubi's been a huge supporter of Nintendo lately, and Nintendo's publishing Rayman Legends in Japan. I think this unofficial partnership could yield Rayman's inclusion.
Layle (Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles): Nothing really jumps out at me for a Square-Enix character. There's the obvious Geno possibility, but I really doubt the company would bring back a one-time character when their Nintendo-exclusive series in FF: Crystal Chronicles is more recent in gamers' minds and could yield such possibilities with the Wii U. Of course, there's Sora, but I don't know if that would be a conflict with Disney (I really don't know the rights/limitations for that franchise/character). Although I don't know much about him, Layle has telekenetic powers.


Sakurai said that he saw the benefit to having third-party characters, but didn't want to overdue it. This seems about right for now... Maybe.

 

[TheCreator]

If we get a third party. Pacman.
If we get two. Megaman.
Megaman an Pacman are seriously some of the only characters I'm hoping for, most of the Nintendo characters I want I don't hope for, because they're waaaay more likely and will probably make it in.

 

[Johnknight1]

Just to clarify, Sega doesn't actually own any of Platinum, they just entered a publishing agreement with them for a few (I think it was three) IPs. *checks* It was four, Bayonetta, MadWorld (and Anarchy Reigns), Vanquish, and Infinite Space.

Those are some great franchises to have publishing rights to (except Bayonetta 2, which Nintendo is the publisher because SEGA gave it up cuz they didn't want to fund it).

Seriously, Platinum Games produces some incredible games. I'm not surprised, since most of the studio is made up of people who came up with the Resident Evil, Viewtiful Joe, Devil May Cry, and Okami franchises. Ever since Capcom closed Clover Studios it's been nothing but a downhill skid for them...

Platinum is privately owned, so if they were bought by Nintendo, Sega really wouldn't have much to do with it. It's also quite possible they'd retain the IPs Platinum made.

Nintendo could buy the rights to those IP's back. MadWorld and Infinity Space from my knowledge and IMO would be great for Nintendo to own to diversify their franchise portfolio.

Kind of wish that Nintendo got Saints Row because of how WTF that would be.

It'd be a great mix up for them, and it would diversify their games. As it stands, Nintendo is lacking in high profile 3D shooters and sandbox games.

EDIT: Also, i can see Nintendo buying SEGA at some point.

We all can. And if they do, Knuckles and Tails would be in Smash-ESPECIALLY KNUCKLES!!! Still, I wouldn't want them to get ride of the Total War franchise (because it is PC-exclusive).

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I agree that Platinum should be bought since they have a good relationship Nintendo unlike how things went when they were with Crapcom as Clover Studios. They are also interested in making two more games for Nintendo (Star Fox and Murasame Castle).

 

[volbound1700]

it would be smart for Nintendo to buy out Sega completely. problem is right now Sega is kind of on an upswing. they've acquired some good ips and the newest games each sold pretty well so i dont see Sega selling at the moment. but in a couple years who knows.

That would mean the appearance of numerous Sonic characters which I think you opposed.

Nintendo should buy IP that nobody no longer uses. Geno, Mallo, Bomberman come to mind. Banjo-Kazooie would be another Nintendo should look into (Banjo series would go well in joint games with DK as well).

 

[8-peacock-8]

Microsoft is never going to sell banjo back.

 

[3Bismyname]

That would mean the appearance of numerous Sonic characters which I think you opposed.

Nintendo should buy IP that nobody no longer uses. Geno, Mallo, Bomberman come to mind. Banjo-Kazooie would be another Nintendo should look into (Banjo series would go well in joint games with DK as well).

im opposed to it only because they are third party.

 

[volbound1700]

If we get a third party. Pacman.
If we get two. Megaman.
Megaman an Pacman are seriously some of the only characters I'm hoping for, most of the Nintendo characters I want I don't hope for, because they're waaaay more likely and will probably make it in.

You are in luck then because I consider the chances of both being in the game greater than not being in the game. It would be an upset if neither are in the game. I also think there is a high possibility that they plus the two returning third parties maybe the only 4 third parties to make it.

I am hoping on Rayman but his lack of popularity in Japan likely kills his chance. Another Namco character would be nice.

Perhaps Professor Layton has a chance, we will see.

 

[8-peacock-8]

If there was an out of left field character, i would literally die from hype if it turned out to be the protag from SMT 4. (Never going to happen)

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I hope we get a few interesting third parties this time around. I really don't have a problem with them as long as they have a close connection with Nintendo (in particular those that haven't appeared on a non Nintendo platform)

With Nintendo trying to work with third parties more now it will definitely be interesting to see how that affects Smash Bros.

Somehow I can't see Megaman making an appearance, Capcom don't seem to be that fussed about Megaman these days.

 

[8-peacock-8]

If I remember correctly, Capcom is trying to get back on their fan's good side. Megaman (classic) in smash would help. Especially after that old comment Sakurai made about possible Capcom reps.

 

[volbound1700]

I am going to update the original post. I thought other people would be putting their predictions in here as well. I wanted discussion but I would like to hear an actual other person's analysis of third party characters.

 

[TheCreator]

This game isnt going to be developed by Nintendo.
@sabrewolf

 

[volbound1700]

Anyone else have any predictions to post?

 

[TheCreator]

Pacman. Lol I WILL main him.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Megaman.

I see Pacman as a 50/50.

 

[FalKoopa]

Sonic, perhaps. Megaman and Pacman. Enough.

 

[TheCreator]

Whoever sees Megaman more likely than Pacman is kidding themselves.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Whoever sees Megaman more likely than Pacman is kidding themselves.

Megaman is heavily requested by most everyone.

Pacman isn't as popular and is only the requested because Namco is making the game.

 

[TheCreator]

That is true. But Pacman is such an iconic character. It's only smart that they include him.

 

[volbound1700]

Both Megaman and Pacman have some evidence going there way.

Megaman in reference to Sakurai's Capcom comment

Pac-Man in reference to Namco developing and making the game (plus Miyamoto comments which if you look at Miyamoto's comments about Sonic last year makes him just as much a source as Sakurai with regard to Smash).

 

[kikaru]

As far as 3rd parties I personally would like to see Megaman and Lloyd Irving. Simon Belmont would be a cool addition as well though I will not count on it.

 

[DragonSniperNintendo]

-Sonic the Hedgehog
-Mega-Man
-Travis Touchdown
-Simon Belmont
-Lloyd Irving

 

[Arcadenik]

Realistic third party characters:
Snake
Sonic
Mega Man
Pac-Man

 

[Oasis_S]

That is true. But Pacman is such an iconic character. It's only smart that they include him.

Is is smart to include a character by their image alone, not caring what they actually add to the game?

Also you're almost implying that Mega Man himself isn't an icon, lol.

 

[volbound1700]

Since there has been all this third party discussion both in the Roster and Namco thread I decided to bump this thread.

Still stick with my 4:

Snake
Sonic
Megaman
Pac-Man

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I want Lloyd much more than Pac-Man. Heck I want a Tekken character more than Pac-Man and I've never played a Tekken game!

 

[volbound1700]

Pac-Man has a big-name which is why he will likely be chosen, that and I have a hunch Sakurai would like to have him being that Sakurai loves the video game characters that he grew up with.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Pac-Man has a big-name which is why he will likely be chosen, that and I have a hunch Sakurai would like to have him being that Sakurai loves the video game characters that he grew up with.

But Tales and Tekken have the popularity.

Pac-Man isn't a big name in video games anymore. Just my opinion.

 

[volbound1700]

Who knows, perhaps both will be in. I didn't know much about Tales until I played Super Smash Flash and started talking to people on here. However, I have known about Pac-Man most my life. Pac-Man, along with Mario, Sonic, Halo, etc. is one of those icons you think of when you think about video games. I just find it hard not seeing Pac-Man in it.

I think Llyodd Irving would be a decent add to the game and for the sake of us both, I hope both characters make it. The legal crap would be done and Namco could easily make move-sets and stick both in the game.

 

[FalKoopa]

Pac-Man will probably get in due to his iconic-ness. But he doesn't look like an interesting character to many.

 

[volbound1700]

Fal, I would like to hear your analysis on third party (similar to my OP in this thread). Also had we known about ROB or Mr. Game & Watch before hand, we would not have liked their move-set potential. Who knows, Sakurai could make Pac-Man a lot of fun to play as.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

Still stick with my 4:

Snake
Sonic
Megaman
Pac-Man

Id definitely be happy with those, all are iconic to gaming and especially to their respective companies, and all have enough potential to bring good things to the series.

 

[Deleted member]

If third-parties return, I think we will see three; Sonic, Snake and Mega Man.

Given Sakurai's positive comments towards Sonic and Snake's inclusion, they could very well be returning for an encore this game (especially Sonic), not to mention that Sega and Konami are obviously going to want them to return (and will likely push for their return). The only way they don't get in is if Sakurai feels guests should only be in one Smash game, which we can't say for sure.

Mega Man is by far the most wanted third-party character for Smash 4. He almost always ranks among the Top 5 and is not uncommon for him to even be the most wanted character (Shortie's poll currently has him in 1st). So not only is he the most wanted third-party character, he's also among the most wanted characters period (among the likes of Ridley, King K. Rool and Mewtwo). Capcom has also expressed interest in having Mega Man in Smash 4 and Sakurai is obviously aware of his massive popularity (heck, he even noticed Mega Man's popularity in the West pre-Melee, before third-parties were taken seriously). There's also the fact that he's an iconic character to video game history and has a large history with Nintendo. Mega Man is one of the very few third-parties I could see Sakurai seriously considering adding in. Now if only Capcom would stop sitting on their butts and ask Sakurai to add Mega Man in (if they haven't already).

A less likely, but real possibility, is Professor Layton. While not a popular choice, he is an important character with a relatively big franchise. What also helps is that the president of Level-5 wants to see Layton in and he has connections with Sakurai as well. One of my dark horse choice and could work as a "WTF?" reveal alas to Snake. I am not expecting four third-parties, but if we do get four, Sonic, Snake, Mega Man and Layton seems to be the most likely combination.

Its a shame that Bomberman and Slime are almost certainly never getting in. Both would make great additions with large history to Nintendo. Bomberman is a great fit for Smash due to his games being multi-player orientated and being in Smash with other characters would be great to see. Slime is the mascot of Dragon Quest, which says a lot. Even if Sakurai is highly unlikely to look past his limbless state, Slime possess a variety of moves and could overcome any limitations with enough effort. Had Bomberman not been sent to his grave last generation and had Sakurai not had the issue of adding Mr. Saturn due to being armless, both would be real contenders of getting into this game.

Had a big write up on Namco characters. Needless to say, I highly doubt we're getting any (and I hope we don't). May post it in a few days.

 

[Curious Villager]

A less likely, but real possibility, is Professor Layton. While not a popular choice, he is an important character with a relatively big franchise. What also helps is that the president of Level-5 wants to see Layton in and he has connections with Sakurai as well. One of my dark horse choice and could work as a "WTF?" reveal alas to Snake. I am not expecting four third-parties, but if we do get four, Sonic, Snake, Mega Man and Layton seems to be the most likely combination.

You know, this kinda remind's me of this: http://gonintendo.com/?p=37327 When somebody decided to ask Sakurai and Hino that Layton should be in smash bros. And then of course this http://gonintendo.com/?p=103521

These news came during 2008 and 2009 according to GoNintendo, which I believe was still the time during the original trilogy for Japan and then when the prequels came along, Layton showed off that he was a competent battler all the more as well as all those gadget's he's made over the years that can all be pretty useful special moves in smash. Kinda make's you think as if Hino has thought about the idea of Layton in smash and discussed this with Sakurai during that talk show and is sort of trying to convince him that Layton can hold his own perfectly well in smash, especially since people apparently laughed during that suggestion.

I know I'm looking too much into this but still some food for thought.

 

[volbound1700]

If third-parties return, I think we will see three; Sonic, Snake and Mega Man.

Given Sakurai's positive comments towards Sonic and Snake's inclusion, they could very well be returning for an encore this game (especially Sonic), not to mention that Sega and Konami are obviously going to want them to return (and will likely push for their return). The only way they don't get in is if Sakurai feels guests should only be in one Smash game, which we can't say for sure.

Mega Man is by far the most wanted third-party character for Smash 4. He almost always ranks among the Top 5 and is not uncommon for him to even be the most wanted character (Shortie's poll currently has him in 1st). So not only is he the most wanted third-party character, he's also among the most wanted characters period (among the likes of Ridley, King K. Rool and Mewtwo). Capcom has also expressed interest in having Mega Man in Smash 4 and Sakurai is obviously aware of his massive popularity (heck, he even noticed Mega Man's popularity in the West pre-Melee, before third-parties were taken seriously). There's also the fact that he's an iconic character to video game history and has a large history with Nintendo. Mega Man is one of the very few third-parties I could see Sakurai seriously considering adding in. Now if only Capcom would stop sitting on their butts and ask Sakurai to add Mega Man in (if they haven't already).

A less likely, but real possibility, is Professor Layton. While not a popular choice, he is an important character with a relatively big franchise. What also helps is that the president of Level-5 wants to see Layton in and he has connections with Sakurai as well. One of my dark horse choice and could work as a "WTF?" reveal alas to Snake. I am not expecting four third-parties, but if we do get four, Sonic, Snake, Mega Man and Layton seems to be the most likely combination.

Its a shame that Bomberman and Slime are almost certainly never getting in. Both would make great additions with large history to Nintendo. Bomberman is a great fit for Smash due to his games being multi-player orientated and being in Smash with other characters would be great to see. Slime is the mascot of Dragon Quest, which says a lot. Even if Sakurai is highly unlikely to look past his limbless state, Slime possess a variety of moves and could overcome any limitations with enough effort. Had Bomberman not been sent to his grave last generation and had Sakurai not had the issue of adding Mr. Saturn due to being armless, both would be real contenders of getting into this game.

Had a big write up on Namco characters. Needless to say, I highly doubt we're getting any (and I hope we don't). May post it in a few days.

I am interested in hearing your Namco write-up as I feel a Namco character is very likely.

 

[Vintage Creep]

I hope Prof Layton and maybe Phoenix Wright will find a way to get in.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, this kinda remind's me of this: http://gonintendo.com/?p=37327 When somebody decided to ask Sakurai and Hino that Layton should be in smash bros. And then of course this http://gonintendo.com/?p=103521

These news came during 2008 and 2009 according to GoNintendo, which I believe was still the time during the original trilogy for Japan and then when the prequels came along, Layton showed off that he was a competent battler all the more as well as all those gadget's he's made over the years that can all be pretty useful special moves in smash. Kinda make's you think as if Hino has thought about the idea of Layton in smash and discussed this with Sakurai during that talk show and is sort of trying to convince him that Layton can hold his own perfectly well in smash, especially since people apparently laughed during that suggestion.

I know I'm looking too much into this but still some food for thought.

Wouldn't be surprised if Hino acted in a similar way to Kojima did in Melee; push for Layton's inclusion and push hard. But maybe in this case Hino asked early enough and if Sakurai deems Layton worthy of a spot, add him.

I'd imagine that if Hino does end up pushing for Layton's inclusion that he'll already have something on his mind for a move set and will attempt to convince Sakurai that Layton can fit in with the rest of the crowd. Sakurai has four criteria and Layton is able to fulfill them all if Sakurai can see the potential in Layton. The hard part is getting Sakurai to see what Layton can do (Slime faces a similar obstacle. The difference is that I don't see Square Enix being interested enough to convince Sakurai that Slime should be in whereas I can see Hino doing such things).

I am interested in hearing your Namco write-up as I feel a Namco character is very likely.

Hearing that Namco Bandai was hired to help with gameplay is an interesting thing and I look forward to how they refine the game play. There's so much they could do to help make this the best Smash game yet and is a pretty good indication that this is going to be a really big game. Yet when I come across Namco discussion, its almost always discussions over which Namco reps should be in/X Namco rep being this likely. Frankly, I don't see what makes a Namco rep so likely and as such, see a Namco rep as, by far, the most overrated potential addition. Sure its possible, but not much more likely than other third-party reps.

The first thing is the assumption that because Namco Bandai is working with Sakurai, it means that they're getting a rep or at least are significantly are more likely to get in. This would be all fine and dandy if Sakurai needed help with deciding characters, but that's not what they were hired for. They were hired to help with game play mechanics and to help balance the game. And beside, why would Sakurai need help from a third-party on deciding characters? Sakurai already does a good enough job deciding characters on his own. Namco Bandai is still a third-party and they still have to go through all the legal hurdles necessary to get a third-party in (assuming Sakurai even takes them this game).

Also important is to look at what people prefer for a Namco rep. While a larger proportion prefers Pac-Man, support is all over the place for other Namco reps. Pac-Man supporters (well, some of them, some just expect him) will beat the "He's iconic!" drum until their face turn blue, Lloyd Irving supporters will cling to Tales director in the hopes that he will bring Lloyd to Smash and Tekken supporters will claim that a Tekken rep will be added if one becomes "popular enough". Given this circumstance, a Namco rep won't be getting in by popularity. Fans will have to hope that Namco pushes for a character and Sakurai approves a Namco character (Namco probably will push, but it likely won't be enough).

Which brings me to my biggest point; I don't see Sakurai being interested in any of the Namco additions. The only possible exception to this would be Pac-Man and that's only because of his iconic status (which helps, but not nearly as much as many thinks). But even he faces his own obstacles to come over. Firstly, his popularity won't be enough to make a difference. Aside from standing by my stance that many simply expect him and only support him for the sake of a Namco rep (not pointing at anyone here), he falls behind quite a few Nintendo characters. Aside from juggernauts such as Mewtwo, Ridley, K. Rool and Little Mac, other characters also eclipse Pac-Man in popularity, including characters like Isaac, Palutena, Shulk, a Mario rep and arguably Ghirahim as well. Definitely not within the Top 5 and neither within the Top 10 as well.

Secondly, Namco has not expressed interest in Pac-Man's inclusion. You'd think that by now that someone from Namco would have come up and said "Pac-Man should be in" but so far, no one has surfaced. Its especially bad when Tales and Tekken reps have had someone from Namco state that they wanted one of these characters in and not Pac-Man.

Another thing is the Miyamoto factor. As most would know, Miyamoto's favorite character is Pac-Man. This would be really helpful, except that this is Sakurai's game. While Miyamoto may have some influence in what Nintendo characters get in, this doesn't extend to third-parties where Sakurai has stated that third-parties are decided by him and him alone. Miyamoto might be able to suggest Pac-Man, but ultimately, Sakurai has the final word.

As for the other reps; there isn't any incentives for Sakurai to add them. Sakurai is going to be exceptionally strict on adding third-party characters this time around and very few will get in (two spots are likely going to Snake and Sonic). No character can hope to match Sonic's resume, not even the Blue Bomber himself. Tales and Tekken's rep have even less in their resume than Pac-Man. If Pac-Man himself doesn't get in, why would Sakurai see another Namco rep as worthy of a spot?

Putting it simply, a Namco rep looks very unlikely. None of the reps are getting in by popularity if falling behind the likes of Shulk is any indication (most Namco reps don't even break the Top 25). Pretty much any character Namco would offer would get rejected. Even the only possible candidate in Pac-Man has grim odds. Its shocking to see many people regarding a Namco rep as an inevitability when there's this much going against one even getting in. What confused me even more is that fact that some of these people think two Namco reps are a good idea. Good luck with having that happen in any Smash game.

(Though if we do get a Namco rep; I must say that Digdug would be nice. Probably the most interesting choice Namco has to offer.)

 

[Curious Villager]

Wouldn't be surprised if Hino acted in a similar way to Kojima did in Melee; push for Layton's inclusion and push hard. But maybe in this case Hino asked early enough and if Sakurai deems Layton worthy of a spot, add him.

I'd imagine that if Hino does end up pushing for Layton's inclusion that he'll already have something on his mind for a move set and will attempt to convince Sakurai that Layton can fit in with the rest of the crowd. Sakurai has four criteria and Layton is able to fulfill them all if Sakurai can see the potential in Layton. The hard part is getting Sakurai to see what Layton can do (Slime faces a similar obstacle. The difference is that I don't see Square Enix being interested enough to convince Sakurai that Slime should be in whereas I can see Hino doing such things).

Yeah in the end, It's all up to Hino and Sakurai. If he really wants Layton in smash and tried to convince Sakurai like Kojima did, he should have approached him by now and showed him all the game's they've made and the thing's Layton has done over the past 6 years. I suppose then if Layton doesn't show up in the first trailers he may as well be deconfirmed right? I hope not... :/

If Layton does show up, I hope they give a little more love to the original trilogy since if Sakurai is going to do with the trophies again like he did in Brawl, we may not get to see some of the Layton characters as trophies since I don't believe Level-5 has made any 3D models for them to rip, which would be a bit of a shame. That's partly why I'm hoping for St. Mystere as the stage for Layton.

But back to Layton himself, they shouldn't have too much trouble proposing a decent moveset for him. Like I showed, he has the gadged's his Fencing skills and the hundreds of puzzles the series has provided over the years could also help in contributing to Layton's character for smash.