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"Thinner character, bigger appeal!" Paper Mario for SSB4; Thread migration soon!

aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
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I was wondering what those red things on your avatar was, haha.
This is why I love this avatar. There's so few people that knew this even months after I discovered it (I think it was first known by a glitch hunter which I talked with him ALOT about this game every day. Ah... good times). Then I told some tasers (person that make tool assisted speedrun or TAS). (Those said tasers are actually doing a tas of it now and I like that I can contact them quickly because tas in this game is actually good and I'm looking forward to it.)
And after that, well, despite some people in the speedrunning community and some twitch viewers, no one knew so I made a trivia on vgfacts because this was so WTF??? when I discovered it. This will be my avatar most of the time because it actually make me unique and it is technically, a hidden reference to my best RPG it's perfect!

For your interest, not only I have no idea why they are there but I saw them while I was doing a move jump cheat and I locked it so mario kept going up indefinetly after falling into the water. So, the arms raised and let me tell you, I still remember it was so scary have a 40-ish inches LCD TV and just the upper part of one arm covering the whole screen. It's so big and it was weird. (took 3 months to get that it was actually mario's arms by checking frame by frame).

however. Bow is definitely in my top list of partners. She just exudes confidence and high class sass. I loved when she made an appearance in TTYD.
Speaking of trivias, did you know that she was planned like all the partner in pm64 to be actual partners in TTYD? You can still see models and textures in the game's ROM.
Chapter 5: This is one of my favorite chapters. I always had some interest in traveling to deserted or dangerous islands. The boss was one of my favorites as well since it was one of the coolest looking Piranha Plants I've ever seen. The boss theme could've used some more work, though. The adventures with Kolorado were pretty fun as well.
You do not enjoy watching speedruns completely glitch this ch do you? This is by far the most bugged ch in the game. I followed this game in the speedrunning community and I can tell you that it wasn't the same years ago. This game has so progressed for glitch that I can tell you: this game is now "broken". This ch is almost skip entirely and I was surprised everytime they found something.

That's my review on each chapter. I'll do one for TTYD soon.
Good review also, please read the post I wrote just before yours. That might help with the ch4 of TTYD which, imo, is not like the ch6 in pm64.

Aside from that, I will not be able to watch E3 live but only several hours after. This means that if any info about paper mario that has to do with ssb4 is revealed, the op will NOT be updated shortly after. It might even go the the next day so, please, feel free to react in this thread if such events happen. Don't worry for me I got someone who will get me a private link to the video but I just want to tell you that I will be late when giving my toughs on this E3 if any info is revealed.
 
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ImaClubYou

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Didn't know the other partners were planned to come back. I'd enjoy seeing them in their redone forms like Bow.

Yeah, I've seen a speedrun by iateyourpie and another guy of PM. They skipped almost every section of the chapter but it's understandable as it's a speed run. It's worth mentioning that Kolorado likes to follow Mario when he clips through the boundaries :)

I've heard the game was just recently found out to be super broken when it was previously thought to be almost perfect with a few minor glitches.

I read your thoughts on CH4. I'll save my opinions on it for later, however. Look forward to it ;)
 

Rockaphin

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I loved chapter 4, it was my third favorite chapter. I liked the gloomy/dark feeling it gave.
Honestly, the only chapter that I didn't really care for was the second. Maybe it's due to me struggling to keep all the Punies together. I HATE those spiders. . .
I liked all the chapters though. We just need a true sequel(not bashing SPM) to TTYD on the Wii U. C'mon E3. Don't let me down. . .
 

aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
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Yeah, I've seen a speedrun by iateyourpie and another guy of PM. They skipped almost every section of the chapter but it's understandable as it's a speed run. It's worth mentioning that Kolorado likes to follow Mario when he clips through the boundaries :)

I've heard the game was just recently found out to be super broken when it was previously thought to be almost perfect with a few minor glitches.
Actually, iateyourpie is the reason why this game became so broken and popular for speedrun. I was following alot of the xommunity when it happened and... oh it was so fun to watch pie speedruning this game. He was very entertaining and he quickly bacame popular in months so guess what happen: people want to speedrun more this game and who says more speedrun says more glitch hunter and since this time, there was ALOT of discoveries. Really, finding begin to flood and progressively began to be broken. If you're familiar with the community, there was no all card category before and the end time was at after the credits because that was how japanese timed the game. But, as more glitches got found (such as the blue house skip which is I think the biggest glitch in the game), you have any% (there's a reason for the name but it's basically beat the game) and all card which is get all the card and beat the game (because yes you could skip card and you can even skip peach sections). And as more people played the game, the community changed the end time to after the last bubble of text. Unfortunately, he doesn't stream this game frequently now but I'll always remember his stream it was so good seeing this game slowly being broken pieces by pieces.

We just need a true sequel(not bashing SPM) to TTYD on the Wii U. C'mon E3. Don't let me down. . .

To be completely honest with you, even a remake of ttyd on wiiu would be great now because this game needs to be more accessible. Maybe GC games won't be on VC but if not, I think that if Ocarina of time got a remake, TTYD can and yes I could see some nice polish in the graphics area (having looked with a free look utility, you don't have to zoom that much to tell where are the pixels). Of course I would hope a sequel but if you can't do it, then just accept that the remake option would be ok.

Also, since I have alot of TTYD trivias for you, I'm goin to tell you the story of the bookcase jump (little reference to the intro of ttyd AH.. I can't get enough of this game). Don't worry there's no big spoiler here.

You know how ch3 is awesome? It is... but not for speedruners. For speedrun, basically every form of RNG is annoying and the condition of the fight is... RNG. So you can guess that it's a nightmare to have around 20 fights IN A ROW of RNG and that it has a hight potential of killing runs. Not to mention that the ch is like an hour so it's alot over the complete run. This is why I wanted for so long to skip this ch and there was a possibility discovered. You know the grubba's offce? There's a vent on the left of the room. Normally, you go there from the screen on the left of the office but the thing is THERE'S NO COLISIONS FROM THE OFFICE! That's weird but normally you can't go there. Until I tried to get on the bookcase just near the vent and I got on it! After hours of trying (and converting the f***ing video) I got a record of it


Note: I'm not the uploader but if you look in the description, I got the credits for it.

This may sounds useless right? NO because if you get on this bookcase in ch3 (which you can by refusing Grubba's contract), you can get on it and go the loading zone because no wall in the vent and trigger a cutscene (the one when you were suppose to arrive from the other side of the air duct). By triggering it, the game assumes that you are champion and ready to go back in Grubba's office. So you could have skiped an hour until you realise that you can't get yoshi and the super hammer because the game assumes you have it when you don't.

And that's when the story of the famous theory of "the ultra hammer early" appears. You can break the vent with this but you need to get on top of the platform when the chest is (you can open it while on the platform). This is so frustrating because I found that IF you get cliped in the bed on the second floor of the bar, you could clip out of the wall and get on the platform but you can't do it without cheats. And so this broke our hope to skip an hour.

Today however, a glitch has been found which made my glitch usefull enough to skip 10-15 minutes (most of the minor league). Which is a good portion of the RNG and improved greatly the speedruning of the game but not for an hour.

(don't ask details on this new glitch because it's too complicated pm me if you want to know)

What's more funny about this is the jump is actually a clip from the corner of the bookcase but since you are so close to the top of it, you get ejected on the top and it works for every hard corners in the game (try this with a lock on a door and closed chest jump to the corner and you'll get on top when you aren't supposed to). One of those jump on a lock saves 0.3 - 0.4 seconds so still usefull :)

Feel free to try this but I'm going to warn you it's hard and doing it + save will softlock (can't progress but still running) your game so be carefull to not save.

To speak about SSB, I found this video


I like this commercial but this gave me some trailers idea what do you think that we show a real paper in the trailer that do stuff only to reveal that it was paper mario? Discuss!
 
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Zero Suit Wario

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I'd prefer in-universe stuff. I wrote a mock up of the trailer in that one thread:
Red curtain shown, draws to quickly reveal a stage with the outside-mario's-house scene from the games. Music from ttyd plays And yes, this will be somewhat similar to Villager's trailer, but the mail scene is actually iconic to Paper Mario as a series. Parakarry delivers a package. Paper Luigi leaves the house and opens the package, with a ! switch inside. (cue ? bubble above luigi's head) He swiftly presses it, causing a pipe to gradually come out of the ground nearby. Maybe Luigi having a dialogue box like "Bro, come quick!!" and then, suddenly, we get a different camera angle focusing on the window of the house. The window bursts open and a red and blue paper airplane flies out and into the pipe!

Transitioning to a casual fight on Battlefield between Link and Mario, not much is shown before they end up on opposite sides of the main platform. They start charging towards the middle, but--INSTANTLY juts out a pipe, and..
PAPER MARIO CUTS IN!

Hahaha. AHahaaha. Sorry. But anyways, then he does the spinning hammer move and knocks both of them out at once. Gameplay footage follows, etc. etc.

I rushed it, but hey, I really like the idea of giving his trailer the usual paper mario prologue.
 

aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
Joined
May 20, 2013
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Canada, Quebec (or Rogeuport if you want)
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aldelaro5
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I'd prefer in-universe stuff. I wrote a mock up of the trailer in that one thread:
Red curtain shown, draws to quickly reveal a stage with the outside-mario's-house scene from the games. Music from ttyd plays And yes, this will be somewhat similar to Villager's trailer, but the mail scene is actually iconic to Paper Mario as a series. Parakarry delivers a package. Paper Luigi leaves the house and opens the package, with a ! switch inside. (cue ? bubble above luigi's head) He swiftly presses it, causing a pipe to gradually come out of the ground nearby. Maybe Luigi having a dialogue box like "Bro, come quick!!" and then, suddenly, we get a different camera angle focusing on the window of the house. The window bursts open and a red and blue paper airplane flies out and into the pipe!

Transitioning to a casual fight on Battlefield between Link and Mario, not much is shown before they end up on opposite sides of the main platform. They start charging towards the middle, but--INSTANTLY juts out a pipe, and..
PAPER MARIO CUTS IN!

Hahaha. AHahaaha. Sorry. But anyways, then he does the spinning hammer move and knocks both of them out at once. Gameplay footage follows, etc. etc.

I rushed it, but hey, I really like the idea of giving his trailer the usual paper mario prologue.
You just made me realize that he even has a lot of trailer potential (look the idea in the op also)

What the heck is Paper Mario has infinite potential? seriously I'm thinking about changing the thread title because of it (he has in moveset, gimmick, stages, music, animations and now even the possible trailer). When does it stops?
 
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Zero Suit Wario

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You just made me realize that he even has a lot of trailer potential (look the idea in the op also)

What the heck is Paper Mario has infinite potential? seriously I'm thinking about changing the thread title because of it (he has in moveset, gimmick, stages, music, animations and now even the possible trailer). When does it stops?
It simply never ends. He feels so much like a no-brainer it's crazy.
 

ImaClubYou

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I've actually watched that video or a similar video doing the Grubba's office trick by accident a verrrry long time ago, haha.

Now then, my thoughts on each chapter of TTYD. Please forgive some of my thoughts if I'm wrong on some chapters because I'm one of the unlucky souls who owns a TTYD disc that broke 5 or so years ago.

Prologue: This prologue turned out much better. I like the fact you start out with action commands on deck and a hammer skipping all the BS. The X-Naut sausage fest also gave me an idea of what kind of things would happen in my adventure. That being Nintendo showing off the power of the GC(which was the most powerful console in its time) and just a whole mess of craziness. I enjoyed when the Pianta's wrecked those flightless bird things?

Huff I say! Huff I say!

Chapter 1: Like I said in the first PM. The series has a habit of making some boring chapters. This is no exception. But hey, it was bearable at least. I like Koops and fighting the boss was cool, too. The theme was awesome just like every Paper Mario boss theme. This chapter was more of the warm up to the greater things, in my opinion. The mayor of Petalburg was cool, too lol.

Chapter 2: Yeah, I didn't like this one too much. I didn't really care for the Pikmin rip off really and a lot of things just felt undone to me. I also despise Flurrie. What even is she? One of those cloud monsters? How did her gigantic **** get past Nintendo anyway!?! I really didn't enjoy her company to be completely honest. Whenever I had to blow paper away I always cringed at the character select screen. The boss wasn't really cool, either. I never really like Lord Crump. His design is so.... lame? The boss theme was cool, though.

Chapter 3: Aside from the speed running communities opinion I did enjoy this one. This chapter set the rest of the tone for me that things were gonna be great. Everything got so colorful in so little time. The wrestling part really hooked me. A lot of new enemies and stuff. Not to mention the story to this chapter is actually phenominal in my opinion. Power hungry boss, undercover secretary, missing fighters, family bonds! And Rawk Hawk was some sort of front! Also, nice theme there Rawk Hawk. Grubba's ain't bad either. One of my favorites.

Chapter 4: I enjoyed this one for the most part. The backtracking, though constant(lets be honest TTYD is ALL about backtracking) wasn't as bad as some may think even though you do it about 5 times. Vivian is also one of the best partners on a normal playthrough. The boss theme as always was sick. The boss itself is a little underwhelming but I guess it's alright. The chapter itself was pretty dark in more ways than just setting. A dude tormenting depressing people just for fun and has the power to steal physical appearance itself?! Powerful stuff.

Chapter 5: First off the boss has the best design I've seen. Let's be straight, he's one cool guy. Too bad he gets skipped in a speed run sometimes. The chapter itself is awesome. Like my thoughts on chapter 5 in PM1 I enjoy dangerous island adventures looking for treasure. Bobbery is definitely another of my favorites. Being a salty old sailor bomb omb is already enough as is without even mentioning how good he is in battle. Flavio's a jerk, I actually like him because of that. Then you have an epic battle with Lord Crump on the ship of the boss you just fought and is now fighting alongside you! This is possibly Lord Crump's best moment in the game.

Chapter 6: I adore this chapter. We took things easy this time around with the unique day night cycle. Or so we thought... the whole trip we are in constant fear of a bomb threat(pretty dark for a PM game, lmao) and we solve little side missions during. The amount of interesting characters were pretty awesome, too. The penguin, rat, bombs, and toads always had something different to say every cycle. I didn't really enjoy the bridge area, though. It just felt so boring to me. The Smorg was a cool boss. I enjoyed it even though it felt like cop out boss. Theme was amazing as always. It was weird seeing penguins in the rich area, too. And they're Canadian? Lol. Pennigton was a cool character, as well.

Chapter 7: Oh god. The beginning when you had to track down General White was the worst. As a kid this game took a pretty long time to beat compared to now. When they told me to find him, I was pretty much searching aimlessly for something that didn't exist. Whatever. After that part though the cannon firing sequence was pretty amazing. Being on the moon was amazing. And finally getting to the base, the place where we were playing as Peach all this time was now on Mario's shoes! The theme of the base is ORGASMIC. I enjoyed it a lot. However, this chapter isn't without fault. I don't like the boss of this chapter, even though the plan of Grodus was ingeniously evil and badass. Lord Crump just sucks to me. Magnus 2.0 was pretty hard the first time, though.

Chapter 8: 1st off. Really unexpected. This chapter is 10/10 right off the bat. The dungeon is super long. It rivals a Zelda game. The puzzles were actually pretty intuitive, especially in the puzzle focused room. You fight around 4 powered up repeat recolored bosses, and the whole setting and theme of the place was awesome. The final parts of te game really challenged you and made use of all your partners, even Goombella. And at the end, the bossing isn't even finished. You figt 3 entirely new ones(4 if you count Kammy and don't count Bowser). The real final boss was something. It was just... I was speechless with everything that happened. Peach possessed, Grodus killed by his own greed, Shadow Queens design, the BOSS THEME. This was better than PM1's final boss.

Epilogue: The epilogue was super short sadly. All we did was say bye to our partners and left the little baby Yoshi to starve to death. The credits, though not as good as PM1's, was still nice and welded up emotions. The sad, cheerful, sense of finished tone it had really brang a tear to me eye. The afer game idea was a nice idea, but there really wasn't anything to do really. Everything that could be done, could've been done before the final boss. Whats more you can't even refight bosses or do any sort of bonus thing other than talk to Bow. The after game was underwhelming but besides that I think the game ended nicely. This game gets a 9/10 for me.
 

aldelaro5

Paper Mario P
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I've actually watched that video or a similar video doing the Grubba's office trick by accident a verrrry long time ago, haha.

Now then, my thoughts on each chapter of TTYD. Please forgive some of my thoughts if I'm wrong on some chapters because I'm one of the unlucky souls who owns a TTYD disc that broke 5 or so years ago.

Prologue: This prologue turned out much better. I like the fact you start out with action commands on deck and a hammer skipping all the BS. The X-Naut sausage fest also gave me an idea of what kind of things would happen in my adventure. That being Nintendo showing off the power of the GC(which was the most powerful console in its time) and just a whole mess of craziness. I enjoyed when the Pianta's wrecked those flightless bird things?

Huff I say! Huff I say!

Chapter 1: Like I said in the first PM. The series has a habit of making some boring chapters. This is no exception. But hey, it was bearable at least. I like Koops and fighting the boss was cool, too. The theme was awesome just like every Paper Mario boss theme. This chapter was more of the warm up to the greater things, in my opinion. The mayor of Petalburg was cool, too lol.

Chapter 2: Yeah, I didn't like this one too much. I didn't really care for the Pikmin rip off really and a lot of things just felt undone to me. I also despise Flurrie. What even is she? One of those cloud monsters? How did her gigantic **** get past Nintendo anyway!?! I really didn't enjoy her company to be completely honest. Whenever I had to blow paper away I always cringed at the character select screen. The boss wasn't really cool, either. I never really like Lord Crump. His design is so.... lame? The boss theme was cool, though.

Chapter 3: Aside from the speed running communities opinion I did enjoy this one. This chapter set the rest of the tone for me that things were gonna be great. Everything got so colorful in so little time. The wrestling part really hooked me. A lot of new enemies and stuff. Not to mention the story to this chapter is actually phenominal in my opinion. Power hungry boss, undercover secretary, missing fighters, family bonds! And Rawk Hawk was some sort of front! Also, nice theme there Rawk Hawk. Grubba's ain't bad either. One of my favorites.

Chapter 4: I enjoyed this one for the most part. The backtracking, though constant(lets be honest TTYD is ALL about backtracking) wasn't as bad as some may think even though you do it about 5 times. Vivian is also one of the best partners on a normal playthrough. The boss theme as always was sick. The boss itself is a little underwhelming but I guess it's alright. The chapter itself was pretty dark in more ways than just setting. A dude tormenting depressing people just for fun and has the power to steal physical appearance itself?! Powerful stuff.

Chapter 5: First off the boss has the best design I've seen. Let's be straight, he's one cool guy. Too bad he gets skipped in a speed run sometimes. The chapter itself is awesome. Like my thoughts on chapter 5 in PM1 I enjoy dangerous island adventures looking for treasure. Bobbery is definitely another of my favorites. Being a salty old sailor bomb omb is already enough as is without even mentioning how good he is in battle. Flavio's a jerk, I actually like him because of that. Then you have an epic battle with Lord Crump on the ship of the boss you just fought and is now fighting alongside you! This is possibly Lord Crump's best moment in the game.

Chapter 6: I adore this chapter. We took things easy this time around with the unique day night cycle. Or so we thought... the whole trip we are in constant fear of a bomb threat(pretty dark for a PM game, lmao) and we solve little side missions during. The amount of interesting characters were pretty awesome, too. The penguin, rat, bombs, and toads always had something different to say every cycle. I didn't really enjoy the bridge area, though. It just felt so boring to me. The Smorg was a cool boss. I enjoyed it even though it felt like cop out boss. Theme was amazing as always. It was weird seeing penguins in the rich area, too. And they're Canadian? Lol. Pennigton was a cool character, as well.

Chapter 7: Oh god. The beginning when you had to track down General White was the worst. As a kid this game took a pretty long time to beat compared to now. When they told me to find him, I was pretty much searching aimlessly for something that didn't exist. Whatever. After that part though the cannon firing sequence was pretty amazing. Being on the moon was amazing. And finally getting to the base, the place where we were playing as Peach all this time was now on Mario's shoes! The theme of the base is ORGASMIC. I enjoyed it a lot. However, this chapter isn't without fault. I don't like the boss of this chapter, even though the plan of Grodus was ingeniously evil and badass. Lord Crump just sucks to me. Magnus 2.0 was pretty hard the first time, though.

Chapter 8: 1st off. Really unexpected. This chapter is 10/10 right off the bat. The dungeon is super long. It rivals a Zelda game. The puzzles were actually pretty intuitive, especially in the puzzle focused room. You fight around 4 powered up repeat recolored bosses, and the whole setting and theme of the place was awesome. The final parts of te game really challenged you and made use of all your partners, even Goombella. And at the end, the bossing isn't even finished. You figt 3 entirely new ones(4 if you count Kammy and don't count Bowser). The real final boss was something. It was just... I was speechless with everything that happened. Peach possessed, Grodus killed by his own greed, Shadow Queens design, the BOSS THEME. This was better than PM1's final boss.

Epilogue: The epilogue was super short sadly. All we did was say bye to our partners and left the little baby Yoshi to starve to death. The credits, though not as good as PM1's, was still nice and welded up emotions. The sad, cheerful, sense of finished tone it had really brang a tear to me eye. The afer game idea was a nice idea, but there really wasn't anything to do really. Everything that could be done, could've been done before the final boss. Whats more you can't even refight bosses or do any sort of bonus thing other than talk to Bow. The after game was underwhelming but besides that I think the game ended nicely. This game gets a 9/10 for me.
Great reviews!

Ok since this thread is on page 3 and I really wanted to give my thoughts on TTYD's ch, well I will do it now. Please note this will be a REALLY long wall of texts but believe me, this wall of text explains why the series is under represented. Reminder, BIG SPOILER (I spoil the whole game)

Before to go with the prologue, I just want to mention that the intro story music is really good because now, every time I listen it, it reminds me all the moments I had with the game and my glitch hunting experience. This is also the base of the best song in the game which I will talk about later. Next, the title screen I really wonder who did NOT dance on the title screen theme? It's my favourite title screen song; it's just so catchy and the best is I HAVEN'T STARTED MY FILE! (which has a play time of 99:59 and doesn't count anymore :) ). So right after you passed the intro, this game is already shaping to be awesome.

Prologue:

From the tutorial standpoint, it's really the standard ch type and so, I have nothing to say. But, even there, it has good details. The pianta that talked in the background was pretty funny and overall, you are just experiencing for the first time the overworld which is rogueport. Just that is awesome because if you look very carefully, it was again very detailed. What I mean by this is that they are some elements that just enhance the vision of this city like graffiti, trash can and sort of "back street" kind of passage. It really has its feeling which is a town of thief. This is further proved by talking to the npc (stuff like over gambling, credit card fraud and even one who steals half of your coins). I could go on and on but you get the idea: everything in this town is there for a purpose. I want also to point out that I really WTF??? on the "curse" joke. They are just silly and I like it.
Overall: standard ch but still has details.

Ch1

Again, pretty standard for a tutorial ch but this one is really good. First, the music is like the main theme but it's not really the main theme. It's just good to remake music without actually be the same music. I like the design here: really colourful like sunshine is you just feel happy by looking at it. I liked the mayor's jokes here (he think your a thief and he can't ear / remember your name). I liked how the game teach you how items are usefull without actually explicitly tell you; you have to tattle and get that you have to use a POW block the game doesn't tell you. The quiz is good but the last question is misleading "What question number is this?" I'm not surprised if some got this wrong. The dialog with koops is cute :) it's little detail like this that I like. Hooktail was decent (again, another curse jokes they don't get old they get better). For the boss, well, nothing impressive but I like his design it's a giant DIY, perfect for the paper design. His theme is again standard but still I like how he eats the toad and tries to scam you little humour here. Nothing to say for the ch end but I need to say: the music when you get the crystal stars and the ch end theme really translates perfectly the accomplishment feeling.
Overall, standard but better than the first game.

The peach message ringtone is GREAT (it's my skype ringtone :) )
Bowser transition are hilarious as always (the mario bros gameplay with the steak was a big WTF??? moment.)
Peach transition are ok (btw, no she's not naked when she take her shower I checked with free look on emulator).

Ch2

Right when you get there, the arstyle is very different and just get you a calm feeling the design on the ground is creative. Flurrie meeting moment is hilarious. The music here is almost explicit to what is trying to represent and the little flower on the corner on the screen with the big kiss really makes the player confused but it's like the DK rap, it's awesome anyway. And the great tree... yeah the gameplay isn't that good. With 11 punies, it's fine but not with 101. It became really annoying and the original idea was being pushed too far. It's not bad, just not done the good way and could have been better. HOWEVER, this boss, the music is so good. The boss makes up for the bad great tree gameplay and it's the best part of the ch. Nothing interesting with the end but I liked the reference to pm64 at the ch4 (when you beat general guy, the shy guys run away and one just fall like one of those x naut in the end of ch2 in ttyd).
Overall, the weakest ch but it's great (this also means that the worst of this is game is great imagine the best!)

Ch3

It's really funny how this ch is the best in normal play but the worst as a glitch hunter :) . Anyway, I want to explain one thing before saying how this ch is the best. There's 2 ch in the game that I would call "break" ch. See, since the beginning of the game, there's a ch, you do things, go to a "dungeon" thing, beat the boss and get the star. Will that be nice to not change this but have a little break of this concept? This is why those ch are there; they are there to bring fresh and new concept that removes you the dangerous part of the ch. I just love this idea and I don't think I see this often in rpg so it's good. For the ch yeah it's the best but why? Well, you need to fight 21 times which would sound pretty annoying right? NOPE! They have random conditions so you don't feel that's it's the same thing and actually makes this really enjoyable. The backstory has good suspense (and I like how your controller vibrate when you get a message from X). The yoshi egg theme is the weirdest music in the game. Rawk Hawk music is great and simple and the boss has a good mechanics and great theme (it's a mysterious theme).
Overall, the best ch what else?

Ch4

The third best ch. First, the artstyle is as unique as the ch2 was. It quickly sets the creepy mood here. Another curse joke those are very appreciated but what makes this ch that good is how it fools you. Short dungeon boss is very easy so it sounds like it would suck right? Nope it does the opposite. Doopliss steals your identity in a weird fashion (I'm curious what was you're reaction after this well made fake? they even got to save your game). This is why this ch is good it makes you backtrack so you are more and more scared about getting your identity back and you can't even leave the town because of it. You are trapped without your identity this is really creepy and embarrassing. It doesn't even ends there because you need to fight against your own partners! this ch is really special and unique.
Overall, great ch uses the backtracking efficiently and makes you scared.

Ch5

I did like the transition to it and when you get on the boat, I liked the big cutscene there. There isn't much to add about the island itself and the quest before grotto but bobbery is funny sometime. The grotto is quite good you really want to explore this dungeon. We find again our best tutorial jokes the curse joke (sadly, it's the last one). The boss here is incredibly well made. His music mixes intensity and jungle feels perfect! He also changes form of attack which makes you change your strategy every time making this boss better. It's not the end after you beat it because you will then proceed to a beautiful ship battle cs and we see again the ch2 boss theme; what a great way to end a ch. I also like how Cortez becomes friendly to you by giving you this transport service.
Overall, Great ch, boss and dungeon is well made.

Ch6

The second best one and the last break ch. Except that this is literally a break on a train. To be really honest, the only reason this ch is so good is the humour in the text. Pennington being as incompetent as the one in pm64 was in the first game but here, add humour and you get something really funny. Other thing is the toad ghost if you read the diary (which you were instructed to not do), you literally game over! I'm not joking this is a quick shortcut to the game over screen and it's just hilarious. Riverside station is ok but after I learned that there was an unused music for this part, I found this quite disappointing. The music would have been this instead of silence:


Sadly, this didn't end up in the final release but I would have been goof for this part. The boss is pretty standard as it's theme but still I liked his design. The rest isn't really interesting.
Overall, Best text in the game which made this ch very good.

Ch7

Let's face it: the general white hunt just SUCKS. It's even more annoying than the ch6 from pm64 there's WAY TOO MUCH moving between ch. But after it, it's awesome. The canon part with the hype music and the moon physics are good ideas. And I like so much the foretress music you really feel that you are on the offensive. Tough, navigation here is quite annoying but it's manageable. The boss again has the ch2 boss theme and it's still great. Even if it's just an upgrade of the ch2 boss, it's still feels different enough. Also, this moment when TEC died...
Overall, Great ch despite its beginning.

Ch8

The best way to end the game? by putting the best elements in the game combined. There's a creepy mood but here, it's 3x times more present than ch4 because there's an evil feel there. The puzzles are well tough and I liked the riddle tower. Goomtail, despite being a stronger boss than ch1, can be a little difficult. The road to the bosses makes you use the best of your partners which again very good to end the game. When you fight grodius, well, for the main vilain of the game, it doesn't seem powerful. Bowser as the same thing (but his theme is really intense and good). Seems easy until you realize that this is not the end. This final boss is the best boss in the entire game (again good to end the game like this). First phase, REALLY creepy, and difficult. Second phase just enhance this feeling. And here, the best part of the game, just before the last phase, you get an Earthbound ending thing where all the people from the different ch pray for you. AND THE MUSIC IS AMAZING (this is almost a fact). This music can only be descrived by one word: encouragement. It represent a long term progression with ups and downs but you still feels that there's progress somehow. What makes this music even better is that it's based around the one from the intro you need inspiration to make a totally different music but based on the same melody. It even tops the Crono theme in Crono trigger. Even today, this is the best encouragement song I've ever heard and I don't think it will change. Then, we arrive at the final battle and again, the music is AMAZING. It's really intense and creepy and it changes alot which makes this even better. I can't know how this boss is difficult because I got very lucky on my playtrough but I think that the difficulty matches the intensity of the music. The ending is very smooth it almost disappoints you that it ends because of all the good moments you had. The partner thing at the end is funny and the credits theme is good. And sadly, this is the end because every masterpieces has to end one day.

I have nothing to say about the post game other than the fact that it's detailed since most of the npc has new replica.

Now I want to talk about stuff in general:

I like how they play with the text (make the text moves, shake, go from the foreground to the bubles, etc...) and the font (if you want it, it's "Hey gorgeous" really good font). What is good is that the game is presented as a comic which not only respect the adventure feeling but also the paper artstyle. Fun fact, there's 2 mb of texts in the whole game. Quite impressive.

By talking to the npc in rogueport, you feel that the town gets more and more depressed until you beat the final boss when everyone is happy. I just like this detail.

The newsletter is hilarious.

I just like the overall UI graphics it's colourful and feels 2d like papers.

I like how this game feels so fluid and smooth (especially the 100 enemies thing).


*takes a deep breath* Ouf did you read all?

If you did, then, I think you can understand now why paper mario is underrepresented. This is why I want him so much in ssb4 and it''s also why this thread should be more active.

But if you didn't well, this game is a masterpiece that's a great TL;DR (if you didn't read because of how I spoil the game then GO BUY THIS GANE NOW).

That's it hope you liked it!
 

ultimatekoopa

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I just hope that the new papr mario is similar to the original and TTYD
Here is my review of all paper marios
PM1- The game was awesome, it was funny and hard at the same time, chapter 1 was funny with the koopa bros, chapter 2 was a bit boring but I liked tutankoopa, chapter 3 was excellent, chapter 4 was a bit tedious of having to leave several times the toy box but it was funny, chapter 5 was a bit boring and I had to power up sushie before I was able to beat that ****ing plant, chapter 6 was hard, I got my ass handed by the boss like 10 times before I was finally able to beat him, chapter 7 was very good, chapter 8 was a bit hard but very good in the end
TTYD- It was perfect, even more funny than the original and a lot more of gameplay, chapter 1 was boring and easy, chapter 2 wasn't as good as I was expecting, chapter 3 was excellent, chapter 4 was also excellent, chapter 5 was long but it was a very good one, chapter 6 was excellent too, same goes for chapter 7, I stopped playing as I couldn't beat bowser, I started fighting a lot until I got 90 star points so after I beat grodus I was completely healed before I the fight against bowser, I got my ass kicked by the shadow queen a few times until I got a lot of money and bought a lot of ultra shrooms and jammy jelly, it was still a hard fight though
SPM- It was good but not as good as the others, the story and characters like count bleck, dimentio, o chunks and mimi were one of the things I liked, the character design was dissapointing
SS- an abomination compared to the last 3 games, fighting enemies wasn't funny anymore as you would be wasting stickers, the boss were hard unless you had an special sticker, the characters barely got personality witht he exception of kersti and Kamek, I forgot that bowser jr was in the game as he barely appears, it was a complete dissapointment
PMU- I expect it to be an actual rpg, partners should return, I would personally choose a luma, a dry bones, a koopatrol and magikoopa as some of th partners, Rosalina, Dry bowser, the koopalings and kammy koopas should appear, I also expect a new and original villain, I hope nintendo doesn't dissapoint me again
 

aldelaro5

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I just hope that the new papr mario is similar to the original and TTYD

PMU- I expect it to be an actual rpg, partners should return, I would personally choose a luma, a dry bones, a koopatrol and magikoopa as some of th partners, Rosalina, Dry bowser, the koopalings and kammy koopas should appear, I also expect a new and original villain, I hope nintendo doesn't dissapoint me again
Oh you just bring a good point. TTYD was released in 2004, the mario universe changed alot since then. So, just imagine an RPG but with smg reference. This needs to happen please Nintendo and Miyamoto WE WANT A TRADITIONAL RPG.
 

Rockaphin

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While I agree that some Mario Galaxy content would be neat, especially Paper Rosalina. I actually find Super Mario Galaxy to be extremely overrated. But a Galaxy themed chapter would be great.
 

ImaClubYou

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Great review Alderaldo, it was much more detailed than mine. I agree with pretty much everything you said since PM TTYD is that type of game where everyone likes and dislikes the same thing in the same way.

So, the other posts in this thread reminds me of the 5th rendition of PM that is possibly being developed.

The things that made PM what is was to me was:

2D character models in 3D enviroments.

Turned based battle.

Important action commands.

The partners.

Flower Points and Badge system

The option to choose the stat to level up.

Different things to do in every chapter.

Those are easily the best parts of the game for me and I hope they bring it all back.


Please note, I refrained from mentioning things like music, bosses, funny dialogue, and things like that because that's always a given when it comes to A+ titles.
 

Rockaphin

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Do you guys think we'll see a new Paper Mario during E3? For some weird reason, I have my hopes up.
 

Zero Suit Wario

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Do you guys think we'll see a new Paper Mario during E3? For some weird reason, I have my hopes up.
I have a feeling it's of a good chance. Bringing in TTYD fans would probably reel in some sales for the WiiU.
 

andimidna

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I already got the Mario character I wanted (Rosalina) and there are others I'd prefer to see (King Boo and Bowser Jr, and to lesser extent, Daisy, E Gadd, and Nabbit), but I've warmed up to Paper Mario because of his moveset.
I prefer to play as characters I like, so I wouldn't get too hyped over a 2nd Mario, but as long as he doesn't end up like Toon Link, and uses the abilities he has, than he would be a positive addition.

What do you guys think of his chances?
 

aldelaro5

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Wow I bumped the thread yesterday night and one day after, there's alot views and replies. Thanks for your support, I think I should bump this thread when needed because more and more people come here. Btw, if you want, there's a supporter list in the op so if you are new in this thread but want to show your support, well just ask to be in the list. Maybe I'll have to put it in a spoiler one day.

Ugh, I'd love paper mario in here. TTYD is my favorite game of all time.
Fun fact, TTYD is my second favorite game. FYI, SSBM is the first and that's because not only I had the best gaming experience of mylife when I played it, but also because by playing this game, I realize that a game is more than a past time; it's an art and ssbm was a tribute to them in details. I owe alot to Sakurai because if he wasn't there, you wouldn't read this message and I wouldn't love video games as much as today. TTYD reached for me the same status as ssbm which is even if I play alot, it just refuse to get old and that is called a classic.

Great review Alderaldo
Please note, I refrained from mentioning things like music, bosses, funny dialogue, and things like that because that's always a given when it comes to A+ titles.
It's aldelaro...

But yeah it's not necessarily a given; they have alot of work behind them and acknowledging them is just me showing how this hard work gave more than expected results. To quote Masahiro Sakurai: "Even if it's a sequel, lots of people have to give their all to make a game, but some people think the sequel process happens naturally.” TTYD, is the best example of this quote and every detail in the game has alot of people behind it. This is also why I think that even if they try, I don't think we'll see a game better than TTYD but they can try to make a game that has the same charm which is what I really want. So, it's not a given, but rather the result of people that wanted to make an amazing game in the first place.
Do you guys think we'll see a new Paper Mario during E3? For some weird reason, I have my hopes up.
Check the thread title of course it can happen. I mentioned this multiple time (even in the op) but this is my evidence:

http://nintendoeverything.com/intel...-unannounced-wii-u-title-on-linkedin-profile/

This was on September 30 2012 so if it's a paper mario game, there's good chance that we hear about it this E3 and while we're there why not announcing something about paper mario related to ssb4? This explains the thread title.

I already got the Mario character I wanted (Rosalina) and there are others I'd prefer to see (King Boo and Bowser Jr, and to lesser extent, Daisy, E Gadd, and Nabbit), but I've warmed up to Paper Mario because of his moveset.
I prefer to play as characters I like, so I wouldn't get too hyped over a 2nd Mario, but as long as he doesn't end up like Toon Link, and uses the abilities he has, than he would be a positive addition.

What do you guys think of his chances?
First, I recommend to read the op all of your concern are explained (especially the clone one), but I think that you shouldn't worry there's literally no reason to add him in the first place if he's clone which he's not. For his chance, I think out of all the potential mario newcomer, Bowser jr and him have the best chance but I'm inclined to think that paper mario would have the advantage. Not because he could represent his own series but the fact that he comes from a series that is so different from the main one is an advantage itself. It gives variety to the roster since his playstyle would be suited for his series in any case so just that's a plus there. Not to mention that Sakurai may be ok to add him considering the need of rep for this series while he's trying to rep more series. In general, I think his chance are ok to average or if you want: it can happen but no true evidence for him and Sakurai has the last word about it.

Lastly, the more and more this thread goes with me as the op, the more and more I like to be it. The views count is going better than some days ago and I realize that more and more people seem to be interested of him in ssb4. It makes me really happy that I support someone who has some people that still believe. let's continue to hope guys we may be happy in the end.
 
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Kenith

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I'm supporting. Been supporting. In fact, I'm amazed I haven't come here to make this post yet.

I have played all but the first in the series, and I've loved them all (except Sticker Star, of course).

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is one of my favorite games of all time, in fact I'd say it's one of the greatest RPGs ever, and that game alone gives him so much unique, fun moveset potential. And with the addition of abilities from Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star, he has unlimited potential as a fighter. He's almost good enough to be his own character, honestly.
 

Louie G.

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Sign me up, I definitely support.
I've lost a lot of faith in Paper Mario, but he's still one of my favorite character options.
 

aldelaro5

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I'm supporting. Been supporting. In fact, I'm amazed I haven't come here to make this post yet.

I have played all but the first in the series, and I've loved them all (except Sticker Star, of course).

Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is one of my favorite games of all time, in fact I'd say it's one of the greatest RPGs ever, and that game alone gives him so much unique, fun moveset potential. And with the addition of abilities from Super Paper Mario and Sticker Star, he has unlimited potential as a fighter. He's almost good enough to be his own character, honestly.
If you didn't come here, well do remember that I became the op a month ago. Before, this thread was dying way too much and I decided to end this since it made me sad. Turned out that xenoblaze lost interest in this thread so he gave me the op. This is why there was alot of changes such as the first post which is way better now.

Also, your description doesn't even include stages, music, animations and even potential reveal trailer (I found that there was alot of ideas there). With those added, I think that he is his own character while still being mario. This is why it goes way further than toon link and this is good.

Sign me up, I definitely support.
I've lost a lot of faith in Paper Mario, but he's still one of my favorite character options.
Added!

But it's ok as long as you support (this makes me happy :) ). I'm noticing now that more and more people come to this thread to show a little support. That's good because this thread doesn't die everytime (seriously, before I became the op, this thread had to be bumped 6 times and the last one was me).

Also, just my attempt to give you more faith, do remember that Sakurai seems to rep new series and more series. Also, do remember that since he had 4 game (maybe 5), so I think he's important enough for nintendo (if nintendo was ok to release sticker star which has NOT the same charm as the first 2 games, this means that they are interested to continue this series). Since this leak was on September 30 2012, there's a good chance that we hear about it this E3 and there's a good chance that this game is a paper mario one so, you could plug some ssb4 announcement there.

And lastly, do remember that daydreaming is recommended in this thread but the best part is that it could just happen to be true. So, this is your choice but you should just be more optimistic. After all, a playable character is good but any music from TTYD will be good enough for me (and the stage would be awesome) so it's not a necessity; it's hoping that it just might happen.
 

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Cool to see more supporters! But I'll agree that I find Paper Mario unlikely, but I think there's still a chance, just a slim one. That pun was terrible, disregard that.
 

aldelaro5

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Cool to see more supporters! But I'll agree that I find Paper Mario unlikely, but I think there's still a chance, just a slim one. That pun was terrible, disregard that.
Tbh, I think he has a little more chance that what people might think. To describe it, I'd rather use the word "some" than "slim".

Because there's a clear need for paper mario representation and it's my opinion but it will be weird to see Sakurai now giving rep to more series and not doing so for this one. The question that would determine this is

is this series worth enough to deserve more rep in any form?

If you look at it, this is one of the few series that didn't get too much rep (only trophies and stickers) and that it's still relevant since 2000-2001. 4 games in 12 years that's enough to get more than brawl. What is so weird is that even mario & luigi got more rep than paper mario since there's a music included (which frankly, idk why this one). I tough about this and I came to the idea that maybe the whole music selection was designed for the needs of the SSE. Remember that too much time was put into it and I think it lead also to ridley being a boss here and it even got mew two cut. This could explains that some content that would have been interesting to see didn't come in the final release. In melee, the series was too new and the first game alone didn't neccesarily need more rep (in fact, just a trophy is enough).

So, how does this affect his chance? Well, the SSE is gone and the series is enough popular to deserve recognition which means that the character himself (not the mario rep because Sakurai clearly won't base his decision around the amount of rep) is even more deserving to be there than brawl.

Not to mention that the roster is speculated to be around 48-49 and I think that you can make most of the people happy and keep a place for him. In brawl, for the amount of character that it had, he wouldn't have any chance and the roster is good for 39 characters.

But this explains why he could be there the important here is why he SHOULD be there?

This is where it helps his chance. Because he literally has more than enough potential to be there and that's not including the stage and musics. The series that he would rep doesn't matter Sakurai doesn't add characters for the numbers he do with his judgement. However, the genre of the series is a big advantage.

Sakurai added toon link because his design deserved to be recognized and the reason he was a clone is because he has similar ability than link (or even it IS the same link here). He ended up to be a clone because even if you would try, you wouldn't make the character not feel like link so instead of doing things that won't change the feel you have with the character, a clone will do the same. That's why I think he is a clone but paper mario… is a particular case here. Not only it's practically the same mario with a different art style but he DOES NOT do the same things that mario can do. In fact, they work in a totally different way in their own game while toon link work similarly to link in their game!

How can you tell this? Well, mario is platformed while paper mario is an rpg so you can agree that you work differently to progress in their game thus, making the character himself unique and we know that's exactly what Sakurai wants. Even the core mechanic of the character would not feel the same due to this series difference and we are still talking about the same mario.

If his chance was "slim", Sakurai wouldn't have an obvious reason to put him in. I agree that his chance aren't hight but not as low as people expect and this is due that we didn't hear any clue about them. But here, there's a clear and legit reason of why he should and could be there and this reason wouldn't be ignored which is why I think he has "some" chance.

My two cents I hope this gave you more hope.
 
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Kevandre

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Don't toy with my heart, guys. If we get a Paper Mario akin to the first two games for the Wii U I might die of fanboy-related stroke.

Nintendo. I command you do the thing
 

Themagnificentmoldy

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OH MY GOD potential trailer idea. Picture this:

Rosalina is sitting in the observatory, reading stories to the lumas as usual, she picks up a certain old brown book, with a power star emblem on the front (the one from TTYD) After she finishes reading, she leaves the room with the brown book and her wand on her armchair. Once she leaves, a luma decides that it wants to read more stories, and flies towards the book, accidently knocking it off of the armchair, flipping it open to a page with Paper Mario posing with all of his partners. Cut to the wand nearly tipping over and falling on the floor, while the luma panics. Then, the wand plummets to the floor landing on top of the book, and the picture of Paper Mario starts glowing brightly. We then see Rosalina walking away from the bookroom, when the room itself starts shaking, and we hear cartoonish noises of things breaking and such. Rosalina turns around, and the door opens, revealing Paper Mario and all of his partners, then says whatever tagline they'd use for him.
 

Kevandre

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OH MY GOD potential trailer idea. Picture this:

Rosalina is sitting in the observatory, reading stories to the lumas as usual, she picks up a certain old brown book, with a power star emblem on the front (the one from TTYD) After she finishes reading, she leaves the room with the brown book and her wand on her armchair. Once she leaves, a luma decides that it wants to read more stories, and flies towards the book, accidently knocking it off of the armchair, flipping it open to a page with Paper Mario posing with all of his partners. Cut to the wand nearly tipping over and falling on the floor, while the luma panics. Then, the wand plummets to the floor landing on top of the book, and the picture of Paper Mario starts glowing brightly. We then see Rosalina walking away from the bookroom, when the room itself starts shaking, and we hear cartoonish noises of things breaking and such. Rosalina turns around, and the door opens, revealing Paper Mario and all of his partners, then says whatever tagline they'd use for him.
This seems incredibly feasible. I could see that being a reveal trailer easy.

"Paper Mario slips in!"
 

Rockaphin

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"Paper Mario folds in!"

Would probably be my favorite.

But I like your trailer idea!
 

Kevandre

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Or even "Cuts in" would be good.

I think i've posted this in this thread before but I'm going to do it again anyway because I'm cool like that and I'm sure some haven't seen it yet

I originally posted it in the "Challenger Approaching" thread, where I hypothesized that those screens could be based on the character's game..

 

aldelaro5

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OH MY GOD potential trailer idea. Picture this:

Rosalina is sitting in the observatory, reading stories to the lumas as usual, she picks up a certain old brown book, with a power star emblem on the front (the one from TTYD) After she finishes reading, she leaves the room with the brown book and her wand on her armchair. Once she leaves, a luma decides that it wants to read more stories, and flies towards the book, accidently knocking it off of the armchair, flipping it open to a page with Paper Mario posing with all of his partners. Cut to the wand nearly tipping over and falling on the floor, while the luma panics. Then, the wand plummets to the floor landing on top of the book, and the picture of Paper Mario starts glowing brightly. We then see Rosalina walking away from the bookroom, when the room itself starts shaking, and we hear cartoonish noises of things breaking and such. Rosalina turns around, and the door opens, revealing Paper Mario and all of his partners, then says whatever tagline they'd use for him.
The idea itself is very good but imo, his trailer HAS to be unpredictable until you see the character (in other words, I think it should be more like the megaman trailer remember that his chance aren't hig). You can adopt this idea by just not showing paper mario on the book and hint on the glow thing of the wand so it would be unexpected in the end.

But still, the idea is good.

"Paper Mario folds in!"

Would probably be my favorite.

But I like your trailer idea!
Me too I actually hope it's this tagline. It fits him so well.

Or even "Cuts in" would be good.

I think i've posted this in this thread before but I'm going to do it again anyway because I'm cool like that and I'm sure some haven't seen it yet

I originally posted it in the "Challenger Approaching" thread, where I hypothesized that those screens could be based on the character's game..

Ah yeah you posted it here already (yeah I read the whole thread). I like this idea and I'm even going to say that this screen would be better than the TTYD one because in pm64, it showed actual silhouettes so you could use that well. I have to mention that the ttyd one would be WAY too big (no I'm serious check this screen I zoomed out the camera ALOT)



The red circle represent what you would normally see on screen and as you can see, it's so small here that it's some pixels. Remember this is only the half of how wide this is and it is as wide as hight. It's actually the same texture used when you received an item but upscaled by like 100 kilometres! This was probably there to reuse ressources but does it have to be this big?

Btw, this is not fake it's actually what it is in the game and you can only see this with an emulator so enjoy it! (ah, I loved so much glitch hunting).

Also, can we get 20k views before E3? yes we can so spread the word! (since more and more people seems to be interested).

@ Kevandre Kevandre , do you want to be in the supporter list? I don't know why I haven't added you since you seem to appear more frequently in this thread.
 

Kevandre

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The idea itself is very good but imo, his trailer HAS to be unpredictable until you see the character (in other words, I think it should be more like the megaman trailer remember that his chance aren't hig). You can adopt this idea by just not showing paper mario on the book and hint on the glow thing of the wand so it would be unexpected in the end.

But still, the idea is good.


Me too I actually hope it's this tagline. It fits him so well.


Ah yeah you posted it here already (yeah I read the whole thread). I like this idea and I'm even going to say that this screen would be better than the TTYD one because in pm64, it showed actual silhouettes so you could use that well. I have to mention that the ttyd one would be WAY too big (no I'm serious check this screen I zoomed out the camera ALOT)



The red circle represent what you would normally see on screen and as you can see, it's so small here that it's some pixels. Remember this is only the half of how wide this is and it is as wide as hight. It's actually the same texture used when you received an item but upscaled by like 100 kilometres! This was probably there to reuse ressources but does it have to be this big?

Btw, this is not fake it's actually what it is in the game and you can only see this with an emulator so enjoy it! (ah, I loved so much glitch hunting).

Also, can we get 20k views before E3? yes we can so spread the word! (since more and more people seems to be interested).

@ Kevandre Kevandre , do you want to be in the supporter list? I don't know why I haven't added you since you seem to appear more frequently in this thread.

Yes please. PM is vying for my #1 most wanted.
 

aldelaro5

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Yes please. PM is vying for my #1 most wanted.
Add me to the list of supporters, please. I'd love to see this guy make it.
Please add me to the supporter list! I want Paper Mario in as my #1 most wanted now!
All added!

I just tought of one thing that this thread started to talk but should talk more about it: the general play style of him.

We know how his potential is enormous and all the move sets in the op just shows how you can have different gimmick or unique abilities. What I'm wondering is the most essential question: How would work out? For him, it's super easy to answer in a lot of different way which is why I want to bring this back on the topic (in fact, it should be the main discussion now).
[collapse=The character]
Let's start with the basics: paper mario is mario made of paper. He's able to use an hammer and regular jumps as his main weapon and can apply badge to it to modify the effect that it will cause and some of them adds a jump options in battle which costs flower points (attack points). He can use it in battle or in the over world. Because he's made of paper, he has ability that only a paper can do such as turning on his side to go in narrow path, rolls into a tube, transform into an airplane and folding himself like a spring to jump higher. He also has regular abilities like ground pound and spin to go faster. He also has a little slower fall because of how paper is light. He also can flip into the 3rd dimension and uses sticker in a sticker book. Then, he can uses partners which are friend of him that helps him by either doing an ability in the over world to proceed to unaccessible paths, or either by using attacks in battle (some costs flower points). It's important to note that more attacks can be added when the partner is upgraded and that, when in battle, the partner can only attack once and he can die by running out of hp. In the over world however, his partner can't die and they will always teleport back to paper mario if they aren't following him. The pixiv works similarly but they can't die. He can also use items like fire flower, cloud that makes thunder, shooting star or any healing items. He can also summons star spirits which would do a powerful attack mostly affecting all the foes at a cost of special points. Finally, he can uses tactical moves in battle for strategy purposes like crunching to defend, appeal to the audience which give special points, putting his partner in front and running away. His attacks in battle can gives more special points by doing stylish moves which is an acrobatic moves and can be chained depending on the attack. By gaining enough star points (exp points), he can upgrade himself by levelling up. He also has a lot of animation like doing a thumbs up after winning a battle or have a thoughtful faces with a question mark and falling asleep when in idle state. For the defensive moves, he can either reduce a little the damage of an attack buy guarding or, he can even damage the foe by doing a super guard which is harder to do.
[/collapse]
I think you understand now when i say "most diverse and inline potential" because that's JUST the character himself you can add any possible representation I mean it's crazy!

But anyway, here's how I would see his play style.
[collapse=The playstyle]
First, his partner has a lot of possibility to implement. Since you can change them in battle (canon), I see them as having a partner from the beginning (which could be changed before the match would start and having a random one if chosen as random). The thing is there will always be a specific set but the order of the partner shouldn't be set. I really don't know how you could implement this but it would be good if the order isn't set like you do a down special and you can choose but it would likely interrupt the gameplay which seems annoying. However, this isn't far streched to do it remember that he needs to waste a turn to change his partner (canon) which would actually translate it well. Maybe like using the stick with 8 directions it's seems enough but how you would implement this seems difficult but i think that if done right, it will translate well enough. His partner has to be of the first 2 games because the pixiv has a little difference which I would talk about later. So, when you have a partner, you can use him with a neutral special or side special (not the up one because since it's should be a recovery, it should be the airplane). The neutral one could be the basic partner attack (or the one that costs no fp canon) which obviously would do a minima of effects but is quicker to do and has almost no ending lag (referencing the no cost of fp). As for the side special, this one should be one of the most powerful attack of the partner possibly after upgrade but it would be more slower (again referencing fp). The partner's icon could appear in the HUD of paper mario's spot and we only see it in battle after doing the special move so it appears instantly (referencing the switch of turns which also makes paper mario vulnerable during this and that's why the side special should be used carefully). They should not be able to die (simply because they are always with you even after you die).

Aerial moves should be the stylish moves he does (like backfliping or other acrobatics) but the idea of damage by foots tooling is good but it shouldn't damage that much. His down aerial should be the ground pound and it should do quite a bit of damage.

Smash is when I would make interact the pixiv however, since I have not played spm, I should get more info on this but I put them in smash just because they can be switched in real time to do one ability which would remove the use of switching them because it worked in real time. They also (correct me if I'm wrong) do one ability so it's a perfect fit here. If you could come up with ideas that would be good.

normal is where it gets a little complicated. Dash is simple, the spin in pm64 (it doesn't attack in game but it helps him so the fact that it is an attack helps him also). The tilts would be his hammer (up is hammer throw, side is power smash which is slow and down is hammer quake and he would do just a little jump to do it and it is also slow). The neutral a and combo however is when it gets annoying for me. He could uses stickers here because I don't know what moves in his game actually do combe (that involves HIM attacking) so for those who played sticker star, I would be happy if you can come with a combo.

Grab will be thoreau (in my knowledge, he didn,t had the ability to grab). Pummel would be a simple jump but here, you could time it to do more damage and jump again by pressing a when landing (referencing power bounce because in his games, this badges is special and the games even held a record of the most bounces you made). You wouldn't be able to throw after pummel. Side throw would be ultra hammer (can damage other foe if he comes into contact with others after the hit), up would be, when thoreau raise the foe in the air, him using a thunder bolt (raising in the air) and down throw would be thoreau keeping the foe low and paper mario using spring jump to squish it.

Final smash has lots of potential but let's go with the most obvious one, the crystal star. I don't know which one but maybe the art attack seems unique so I would go with that.

For extras, well just going to list here

taunt: up is wagging his finger, side is the thumbs up and down is his ? animation.

Victory theme is the one in ttys but here, it would be similar to the taunts just with the partner selected when the match finished (because they also have their animations too).

Defeat is him running rapidly in place with his partner doing the same but they fell (reference to running away).

Dodge is him doing a duck and cover like ttyd.

Roling dodge is the tube.

Sidestep is the paper mode in ttyd.

Air dodge is just him moving (not really special).

Swimming would be the boat mode.
[/collapse]
And, that's all. Maybe I'll do a move set with this base but I just want to hear your idea of play style like this. You don't have to tell a whole move set but just how you see him on the battlefield in general. As you may have noticed, he's more assisted than him doing the attack but this is also true to his game. I personally think that if I come with a move set based on this that it will rep PERFECTLY the character and as you see, there's only the air dodge animation and the neutral combo which I don't have any idea so if you come with one, just tell me.

When I said he has everything to be in well you have the proof here.
 
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Rockaphin

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All added!

I just tought of one thing that this thread started to talk but should talk more about it: the general play style of him.

We know how his potential is enormous and all the move sets in the op just shows how you can have different gimmick or unique abilities. What I'm wondering is the most essential question: How would work out? For him, it's super easy to answer in a lot of different way which is why I want to bring this back on the topic (in fact, it should be the main discussion now).
[collapse=The character]
Let's start with the basics: paper mario is mario made of paper. He's able to use an hammer and regular jumps as his main weapon and can apply badge to it to modify the effect that it will cause and some of them adds a jump options in battle which costs flower points (attack points). He can use it in battle or in the over world. Because he's made of paper, he has ability that only a paper can do such as turning on his side to go in narrow path, rolls into a tube, transform into an airplane and folding himself like a spring to jump higher. He also has regular abilities like ground pound and spin to go faster. He also has a little slower fall because of how paper is light. He also can flip into the 3rd dimension and uses sticker in a sticker book. Then, he can uses partners which are friend of him that helps him by either doing an ability in the over world to proceed to unaccessible paths, or either by using attacks in battle (some costs flower points). It's important to note that more attacks can be added when the partner is upgraded and that, when in battle, the partner can only attack once and he can die by running out of hp. In the over world however, his partner can't die and they will always teleport back to paper mario if they aren't following him. The pixiv works similarly but they can't die. He can also use items like fire flower, cloud that makes thunder, shooting star or any healing items. He can also summons star spirits which would do a powerful attack mostly affecting all the foes at a cost of special points. Finally, he can uses tactical moves in battle for strategy purposes like crunching to defend, appeal to the audience which give special points, putting his partner in front and running away. His attacks in battle can gives more special points by doing stylish moves which is an acrobatic moves and can be chained depending on the attack. By gaining enough star points (exp points), he can upgrade himself by levelling up. He also has a lot of animation like doing a thumbs up after winning a battle or have a thoughtful faces with a question mark and falling asleep when in idle state. For the defensive moves, he can either reduce a little the damage of an attack buy guarding or, he can even damage the foe by doing a super guard which is harder to do.
[/collapse]
I think you understand now when i say "most diverse and inline potential" because that's JUST the character himself you can add any possible representation I mean it's crazy!

But anyway, here's how I would see his play style.
[collapse=The playstyle]
First, his partner has a lot of possibility to implement. Since you can change them in battle (canon), I see them as having a partner from the beginning (which could be changed before the match would start and having a random one if chosen as random). The thing is there will always be a specific set but the order of the partner shouldn't be set. I really don't know how you could implement this but it would be good if the order isn't set like you do a down special and you can choose but it would likely interrupt the gameplay which seems annoying. However, this isn't far streched to do it remember that he needs to waste a turn to change his partner (canon) which would actually translate it well. Maybe like using the stick with 8 directions it's seems enough but how you would implement this seems difficult but i think that if done right, it will translate well enough. His partner has to be of the first 2 games because the pixiv has a little difference which I would talk about later. So, when you have a partner, you can use him with a neutral special or side special (not the up one because since it's should be a recovery, it should be the airplane). The neutral one could be the basic partner attack (or the one that costs no fp canon) which obviously would do a minima of effects but is quicker to do and has almost no ending lag (referencing the no cost of fp). As for the side special, this one should be one of the most powerful attack of the partner possibly after upgrade but it would be more slower (again referencing fp). The partner's icon could appear in the HUD of paper mario's spot and we only see it in battle after doing the special move so it appears instantly (referencing the switch of turns which also makes paper mario vulnerable during this and that's why the side special should be used carefully). They should not be able to die (simply because they are always with you even after you die).

Aerial moves should be the stylish moves he does (like backfliping or other acrobatics) but the idea of damage by foots tooling is good but it shouldn't damage that much. His down aerial should be the ground pound and it should do quite a bit of damage.

Smash is when I would make interact the pixiv however, since I have not played spm, I should get more info on this but I put them in smash just because they can be switched in real time to do one ability which would remove the use of switching them because it worked in real time. They also (correct me if I'm wrong) do one ability so it's a perfect fit here. If you could come up with ideas that would be good.

normal is where it gets a little complicated. Dash is simple, the spin in pm64 (it doesn't attack in game but it helps him so the fact that it is an attack helps him also). The tilts would be his hammer (up is hammer throw, side is power smash which is slow and down is hammer quake and he would do just a little jump to do it and it is also slow). The neutral a and combo however is when it gets annoying for me. He could uses stickers here because I don't know what moves in his game actually do combe (that involves HIM attacking) so for those who played sticker star, I would be happy if you can come with a combo.

Grab will be thoreau (in my knowledge, he didn,t had the ability to grab). Pummel would be a simple jump but here, you could time it to do more damage and jump again by pressing a when landing (referencing power bounce because in his games, this badges is special and the games even held a record of the most bounces you made). You wouldn't be able to throw after pummel. Side throw would be ultra hammer (can damage other foe if he comes into contact with others after the hit), up would be, when thoreau raise the foe in the air, him using a thunder bolt (raising in the air) and down throw would be thoreau keeping the foe low and paper mario using spring jump to squish it.

Final smash has lots of potential but let's go with the most obvious one, the crystal star. I don't know which one but maybe the art attack seems unique so I would go with that.

For extras, well just going to list here

taunt: up is wagging his finger, side is the thumbs up and down is his ? animation.

Victory theme is the one in ttys but here, it would be similar to the taunts just with the partner selected when the match finished (because they also have their animations too).

Defeat is him running rapidly in place with his partner doing the same but they fell (reference to running away).

Dodge is him doing a duck and cover like ttyd.

Roling dodge is the tube.

Sidestep is the paper mode in ttyd.

Air dodge is just him moving (not really special).

Swimming would be the boat mode.
[/collapse]
And, that's all. Maybe I'll do a move set with this base but I just want to hear your idea of play style like this. You don't have to tell a whole move set but just how you see him on the battlefield in general. As you may have noticed, he's more assisted than him doing the attack but this is also true to his game. I personally think that if I come with a move set based on this that it will rep PERFECTLY the character and as you see, there's only the air dodge animation and the neutral combo which I don't have any idea so if you come with one, just tell me.

When I said he has everything to be in well you have the proof here.
Nice moveset, he truly has infinite potential. I already posted my idea of his moveset. Sometimes I wonder if the 3DS will be able to take it.
 

Morbi

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I used to actively oppose Paper Mario; I thought he wouldn't offer that much because of Game and Watch, I didn't want another "everything and the kitchen sink" character. But after giving it some thought, I am going to convert. Game-play is the most important, that is all we will have 1 or 2 years down the line. It is fallacious to disregard him just because he is seemingly G&W+Mario.

"I am Groot!"
 
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Rockaphin

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I used to actively oppose Paper Mario; I thought he wouldn't offer that much because of Game and Watch, I didn't want another "everything and the kitchen sink" character. But after giving it some thought, I am going to convert. Game-play is the most important, that is all we will have 1 or 2 years down the line. It is fallacious to disregard him just because he is seemingly G&W+Mario.

"I am Groot!"
The biggest reason people seem to be turned away from Paper Mario is because he's still Mario. Most people see that and they're like "NOPE, no alt versions", but there's a couple out there that recognize his true potential and aren't bothered by that. Honestly, I'm surprised so many are using that claim as why they would hate for his inclusion. People aren't bothered that we have two Samus's, two Zelda's, and two Link's, but all the sudden we can't have two Mario's, Nintendo's mascot(even though we had Dr. Mario in Melee). Anyway, I agree that I've thought about him and G&W sharing the same ordeal of both being flat, but I mentioned how I think they would be a visually different. I just suck at explaining it haha.
 
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Kevandre

Ivy WAS Saurly missed
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The biggest reason people seem to be turned away from Paper Mario is because he's still Mario. Most people see that and they're like "NOPE, no alt versions", but there's a couple out there that recognize his true potential and aren't bothered by that. Honestly, I'm surprised so many are using that claim as why they would hate for his inclusion. People aren't bothered that we have two Samus's, two Zelda's, and two Link's, but all the sudden we can't have two Mario's, Nintendo's mascot(even though we had Dr. Mario in Melee). Anyway, I agree that I've thought about him and G&W sharing the same ordeal of both being flat, but I mentioned how I think they would be a visually different. I just suck at explaining it haha.
Yeah, people assume that PM would be a clone. If that were to be the case I'd rather see him not in the game at all than be a clone. He'd be as disappointing as Ganondorf imo. PM (And Ganondorf) deserve their own movesets and should either have one of their own or not be in at all.

This is me being hypocritical, as I don't want Lucas to change whatsoever (provided he returns in SSB4... Though my heart couldn't take it if I lose both Ivy and Lucas).
 

aldelaro5

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I used to actively oppose Paper Mario; I thought he wouldn't offer that much because of Game and Watch, I didn't want another "everything and the kitchen sink" character. But after giving it some thought, I am going to convert. Game-play is the most important, that is all we will have 1 or 2 years down the line. It is fallacious to disregard him just because he is seemingly G&W+Mario.

"I am Groot!"
So, I guess I put you in the supporter list right?

The biggest reason people seem to be turned away from Paper Mario is because he's still Mario. Most people see that and they're like "NOPE, no alt versions", but there's a couple out there that recognize his true potential and aren't bothered by that. Honestly, I'm surprised so many are using that claim as why they would hate for his inclusion. People aren't bothered that we have two Samus's, two Zelda's, and two Link's, but all the sudden we can't have two Mario's, Nintendo's mascot(even though we had Dr. Mario in Melee). Anyway, I agree that I've thought about him and G&W sharing the same ordeal of both being flat, but I mentioned how I think they would be a visually different. I just suck at explaining it haha.
You just basically told my op counterargument from the op in a different way.

It really is a toon link but with infinite moveset potential which toon link lacked unfortunately.

In fact, and I already explained this in the op, game and watch represent the non fluidity of the lcd screen (he's animated by frame) and the fact that it's "bland" because you can only have black. This is not bad because it's true to his game. Paper mario is the complete opposite he would be represented by how fluid like a paper he would be. This includes folding into himself or turn himself to his side. In fact, he's VERY fluid in his game almost like real time (ok it's 60 fps in ttyd but it's just feel so lagless and this represents how a paper is easy to move on his own since it's light). Just check his foot move while walking they move so much we are very far from G&W.

Also, I perfectly agree on how this arguments hurts him for not a legit reason. As I said in the op "it should be reconsidered" because people tend to believe "oh another toon link? nah, I don't care" instead of believing "wow he's mario but it's very far from a clone and it goes alot further than toon link". This is why I want that this thread gets more attention (which apparently, I'm doing my job pretty well).

I wouldn't say it's worse than "ridley is too big" but it's on the same base: not legit argument that makes the character underrated.

EDIT: Just finally done a moveset (it's the first in the op). Since this moveset tried to stay true to the character and not focusing around mario, this is IMO the final proof of why he's not a clone let alone his own character (even if he's mario). There's literally no reason to believe that he won't fit because mario or G&W is there. I wonder if I'm living the "ridley is too big" situation with my most wanted character now.
 
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