Think Brawl will work well with HDTVs...?

[Teeb147]

Almost all HDTV's are affected by screen lag. The most effective way I know of seeing this lag is to play Guitar Hero. If the notes don't match up with the music, your tv is lagging. Guitar Hero had a nice feature to adjust this lag, but I don't know if Brawl will. But, the Wii has been pretty good at keeping up with the HDTV screen so I don't think we should see any major problems and if you do lag at all it will most likely be through your internet connection when you play online.

Even with the option, you still SEE the lag, which is annoying as hell.

It's actually not an option to remove lag, that's impossible, it's an option to PUT lag in the game so that it matches the screen :S

 

[GhostAnime]

I'm wondering if 480i is a problem at all?

 

[Arymo]

I have a Sony Bravia 46" TV myself and when I play Melee with component cables neither me or my friends notice a lag or anything. Im pretty sure that this tv can do all but 1080p

 

[SPP Kirby]

We need some more specific information to help you out.

Alos, they do have Wii component cables from Nintendo at Gamestop and Best Buy. They are 35.00 though.

Ahh, what more information do you need? I figured everything would be included in the link I posted, but I can try and find out more

Also, I work at Best Buy (not in the home theater department lol, I fail there), and I've only seen the Psyclone and React component cables, one was around $25 and the other was $50.

 

[Kittah4]

I'm not positive, but I think a good way to test for lag might be the reflex game on Kirby's adventure? On KSS, I couldnt get under 09 hundreths of a second or so, but on KA I get around 13.

I mean, I think all my games play without noticble lag, its just...ugh, I wish I could let this go.

 

[Teeb147]

guitar hero 3 is the definite test for your hd tv.. youll notice if youve ever played on a regular tv.

 

[Fox P McCloud]

I'm in luck for this one; I cna get the best of both worlds.

I have a Sony 36" CRT HDTV. The resolutions it supports? 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Therefore, not matter what I throw at it, it doesn't have a problem.

CRTs naturally have the lowest response time, picture quality, and longetivity...their only weakness is size and weight.

So, a Wii+component cables+CRT HDTV with no native resolution = bliss.

I'll be looking forward to playing my Wii in 480p....I just wish that the Wii could output, at the least, 720p....ahh, oh well, maybe in the future with a firmware upgrade.

 

[Kittah4]

guitar hero 3 is the definite test for your hd tv.. youll notice if youve ever played on a regular tv.

I'm rather hesitant to pick that up because its so addicting, because it hurts my wrist, and because I'll be crushed if my tv does turn out to be a lagger. But I mean, I can't percieve lag on progressive scan melee or Super Mario Galaxy, so I mean, why would I see it for brawl?

Also does the size of the screen matter at all?

 

[Fox P McCloud]

screen size makes no difference....response time of your screen is the biggest issue followed by lag to do interlacing/de-interlacing.

LCDs are the absolute worst for playing games on
Plasmas have very little response time, so they're "better"....sadly, they suffer from burn-in far worse than an LCD or CRT
CRTs have the best response time...there is a small risk for burn-in...but it's not that bad at all....remember, people have been playing video-games on CRTs for years....have you heard of it being a chronic issue?

I've heard DLP is not too bad too.

still, CRTs are the only screens that don't have a n ative resolution...which gives them an automatic advantage when displaying a picture (it's just s shame that no one ever made a 1080p 36-40 inch CRT HDTV, THEN called it quits).

 

[Fox P McCloud]

screen size makes no difference....response time of your screen is the biggest issue followed by lag to do interlacing/de-interlacing.

LCDs are the absolute worst for playing games on
Plasmas have very little response time, so they're "better"....sadly, they suffer from burn-in far worse than an LCD or CRT
CRTs have the best response time...there is a small risk for burn-in...but it's not that bad at all....remember, people have been playing video-games on CRTs for years....have you heard of it being a chronic issue?

I've heard DLP is not too bad too.

still, CRTs are the only screens that don't have a n ative resolution...which gives them an automatic advantage when displaying a picture (it's just s shame that no one ever made a 1080p 36-40 inch CRT HDTV, THEN called it quits).

 

[Corax The Cold]

my HDTV has "Game Mode" where it doesnt try to do anything fancy with it, atm it plays with zero lag (or equal to my old tv) the only problem is that melee isnt in widescreen so my 40 inch tv is more like 30 inches, (i dont want to stretch the image cause it will jsut look funny) now im actually glad for that wide screen update everyone complains about

 

[GhostAnime]

so, can anyone tell me if 480i will work?

 

[Monkeyjr352]

I hope my HDTV works with Brawl. There is nothing better then hooking up Brawl to an HDTV with a surround sound system.

 

[hotgarbage]

I'm wondering if 480i is a problem at all?

playing Brawl on a 480i tv won't result in any lag. But sending a 480i signal (Wii + the cables it comes with) to an HDTV will result in almost certain lag.

 

[hotgarbage]

I'm in luck for this one; I cna get the best of both worlds.

I have a Sony 36" CRT HDTV. The resolutions it supports? 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i. Therefore, not matter what I throw at it, it doesn't have a problem.

CRTs naturally have the lowest response time, picture quality, and longetivity...their only weakness is size and weight.

So, a Wii+component cables+CRT HDTV with no native resolution = bliss.

I'll be looking forward to playing my Wii in 480p....I just wish that the Wii could output, at the least, 720p....ahh, oh well, maybe in the future with a firmware upgrade.

Out of curiosity how do you know that it is actually displaying the 480p signal as is and not upscaling it to 720p or 1080i?

(sorry for double post)

 

[specialsauce]

i got a samsung hdtv and it has a game mode in it that reduces lag =P

 

[GhostAnime]

But sending a 480i signal (Wii + the cables it comes with) to an HDTV will result in almost certain lag.

but why, when it isn't in EDTV or anything?

would I Have to buy the other red/blue/green cables?

 

[hotgarbage]

But sending a 480i signal (Wii + the cables it comes with) to an HDTV will result in almost certain lag.

but why, when it isn't in EDTV or anything?

would I Have to buy the other red/blue/green cables?

-Basically the problem with that is "upscaling".
If a tv only displays in 720p, 1080i, or 1080p, and you feed a 480i signal to it it has to upscale the picture. By that I mean that the tv takes the 480i signal and turns it into a 720p,1080i, or 1080p sginal (depending on the tv). After all if it didn't do this only 480 of 720/1080 lines would be filled and the resulting image would be tiny. But the thing is that upscaling can take time, which results in lag.

(btw what kind of tv are you using right now? I forgot to ask that :X )

-If you do have an HDTV, getting component (red/blue/green) cables is essential, and will cut down on lag, probably by a large amount.
This is because upscaling takes place in two step: "i -> p upscaling" and "480 -> 720/1080 upscaling." By getting component cables and enabling the wii to output in 480p you can skip the i -> p step (which is more time consuming).


-EDTV's are actually perfect for Brawl because they only output in 480p or 1080i. So if you set said tv to output in 480p no upscaling, and thus no lag, is involved. Same goes for SDTV's, which output in 480i, and thus don't have to (and can't) upscale anything.


If you want more info look in this thread right here: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=130287



I hope all of that made sense, this stuff is pretty confusing

EDIT: after reading your post again it sounds like you might be confused about the terms.
HDTV = High Definition TV; outputs in 720p+ resolution
EDTV = Enhanced Definition TV; outputs in 480p resolution. Some can output in 1080i res.
STDV = Standard Definition TV; outputs in 480i. Just your standard tv.


EDIT2lol Note that the big focus here is what the tv outputs in, not wether or not it's an HDTV. All HD flat panels (LCD, PLASMA) output in only one resolution, so they will have to upscale a lower rez signal. Some CRT's can output in multiple resolutions though, so, for an example, if you have a CRT HDTV that can output in 480p you're good to go.

 

[GhostAnime]

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5645638

here you go.

 

[S2]

Well, like I posted, different HDTVs can handle different video signals to varying degrees. You'd have to test each HDTV model individually to see if it will delay. Using interlaced video on a progressive HDTV however will always cause a high input delay. It's best to simply get an EDTV that natively displays at 480p for Gamecube/Wii gaming.

Yeah, its hard to simply put a "yes" or "no" as to whether its worse to play on an HDTV.

One of my friends has a HDTV and Melee works fine on it (by works I mean, the timing for L-cancels, WDing, etc).

That being said, I've heard a lot of HDTVs have lag.

I've got my 27" SDTV to keep me brawling just in case.

 

[WeeklyJumpman]

Please don't ask Sakurai!! Or we'll be getting a "HDTV Support" Update!!!!!

NOOOOOO!!!!

 

[bastula]

out of all my parents tvs (an old sony 32" crt and a sharp aquos 37" 1080p lcd), monitor (dell 2407WFP AO4) and projector (sony vpl-vw100 1080p), i hardly notice any lag. honestly, i would be more "concerned/worried" about online lag than tv lag.

really, its not a big deal that there is tv lag. every single input will have the slightest lag, theres nothing we can do about it. its like uncompressed mp3s. even if you rip uncompressed mp3s from a cd, you will still have a tiny bit of quality loss, even though it is unnoticeable to the untrained ear/non audiophile.

to the guys who are so concerned about lag, let us actually GET the game first and then decide if your tv has lag or not. if it does...deal with it, switch to another tv, or whatever.

 

[Igneous42]

screen size makes no difference....response time of your screen is the biggest issue followed by lag to do interlacing/de-interlacing.

LCDs are the absolute worst for playing games on
Plasmas have very little response time, so they're "better"....sadly, they suffer from burn-in far worse than an LCD or CRT
CRTs have the best response time...there is a small risk for burn-in...but it's not that bad at all....remember, people have been playing video-games on CRTs for years....have you heard of it being a chronic issue?

I've heard DLP is not too bad too.

still, CRTs are the only screens that don't have a n ative resolution...which gives them an automatic advantage when displaying a picture (it's just s shame that no one ever made a 1080p 36-40 inch CRT HDTV, THEN called it quits).

I'm no TV expert but just based on personal experience and what my friends have said I think Plasma is worse for gaming. Thats what the guy at best buy told us too. And I know my Friend played with some guys on a nice plasma screen and the lag made it almost unplayable.

 

[GinRei]

You all seem much more knowledgable in this than I, so I have to ask. This is the TV I currently have. Will I need the component cables in order to reduce the conversion lag? Seems as if it says it plays in 480i (NTSC), and then 480p, 720p, and 1080p (HDTV). No idea if this means I do or don't need the cables. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Teeb147]

Can cables really reduce the lag?

Ill have to tell my friend about that..

 

[hotgarbage]

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5645638

here you go.

Getting component cables would really help with that one (I'd say it's a must). Check out monoprice.com for some. Or just go with the $30 official Nintendo ones. I wouldn't worry too much about lag, as 480p -> 720p upscaling isn't really a big deal. You just have to worry about the 480i -> 720 upscaling.


....Btw how does 19" work for you? I'm looking at getting a tv myself

 

[Ojanya]

Edit: Came out twice, disreguard.

 

[Ojanya]

So basically HDTV = lose? Because I had enough trouble with guitar hero and my HDTV. Even with the calibration, it didn't work that well.

 

[hotgarbage]

So basically HDTV = lose? Because I had enough trouble with guitar hero and my HDTV. Even with the calibration, it didn't work that well.

Not really, it depends on the tv. You NEED component cables for the Wii if you're using an HDTV though.

 

[Aeramis]

Not all HDTVs have lag. Most new models yr 2005+ of rear projection HDTVs (even at 50 inches+) made by RCA not only have a game mode but have no noticeable lag even off of the game mode. I wouldn't trust any other brands. Check them out if your looking for a new HDTV.

 

[Kittah4]

Heh, played arond with my visio on Guitar Hero three and tried lag calibration. It set for 0 ms, despite me having an lcd hdtv, supposedly the worst for gaming. XP

 

[GhostAnime]

I'm really lost at what you're trying to say. you say it's a must but then say it's not a big deal?

19" is okay as a bedroom TV but if you're a guy who wants big sizes, you should go larger than that.

 

[Chaosblade77]

I am considering buying a EDTV specifically for my room/Wii. Problem is, I can't find many at all... Maybe I am just not searching right, I mean, I know they are getting harder to find but I haven't found a single widescreen television around 20 inches that is 480p native resolution.

Anyone else having an issue of finding one? If worst comes to worst I can trade my computer monitor/TV for my parents (not widescreen and smaller) 480p TV, but I'd really rather look around and find something to replace my 15 inch SDTV/VCR combo straight from 1995 or so... since it's not even plugged in right now.

 

[Fox P McCloud]

I am considering buying a EDTV specifically for my room/Wii. Problem is, I can't find many at all... Maybe I am just not searching right, I mean, I know they are getting harder to find but I haven't found a single widescreen television around 20 inches that is 480p native resolution.

Anyone else having an issue of finding one? If worst comes to worst I can trade my computer monitor/TV for my parents (not widescreen and smaller) 480p TV, but I'd really rather look around and find something to replace my 15 inch SDTV/VCR combo straight from 1995 or so... since it's not even plugged in right now.

good luck on finding one; the largest one I ever found was around 19", if I recall correctly.

Also, you'll never find a widescreen EDTV; 480p is the same, exact resolution as an SDTV, the only difference is that all 480 lines are displayed at once instead of 240 one frame and 240 the next frame (of course, it happens SO fast, it looks like 1 image to you).

forget about EDTVs; it was a genre that was supposed to take over SDTVs, but they were far to expensive...and thus, the result was people waiting on TVs that had even higher definition.

if you want a really good gaming experience, I'd Recommend getting a Sony CRT (tube) HDTV....yeah, it sounds strange, a CRT HDTV...but trust me; it won't let you down like the others will (albeit, the flat-panels are getting better). The only problem is the smallest one you can get is 27 inches.....and that's only "HD ready"...the small Sony CRT HDTV you can get, as of now, is their 34 inch one...which is a WIDESCREEN tube TV of all things.

I think Samsung makes a "slimfit" 26 or 27 inch (I forget the exact specs) CRT HDTV taht you can still find...I liked the picture, but it wasn't as bright, vivid, or nice as the Sony's picture.

trust me, if you can find a Sony CRT HDTV, you will NOT be let down.

 

[Thi0s]

I have a samsung 34" HDTV that I got in October and I can do anything on it without lag with or without game mode (Though I always have it on anyway) I don't have component cables, but I'm wondering about the difference. Exactly what is the difference between specific component cables and the normal default cables that come with your wii? I'm sorry if the question is stupid, but I never really knew.

 

[Fox P McCloud]

I have a samsung 34" HDTV that I got in October and I can do anything on it without lag with or without game mode (Though I always have it on anyway) I don't have component cables, but I'm wondering about the difference. Exactly what is the difference between specific component cables and the normal default cables that come with your wii? I'm sorry if the question is stupid, but I never really knew.

the cables that come with the Wii carry the video signal on one and only one cable....then it splits the sound into two channels (L+R). With the component cables, there's no change in the sound implementation, but the video signal is split into 3 separate channels, therefore allowing greater picture quality via brighter colors, more defined edges, and less blurring.

now combine those enhances qualities with progressive scan mode, and you'll have a really nice picture (though certainly not even remotely comparable to 720p even).

what kind of Samsung? CRT? LCD? Plasma?

 

[Thi0s]

Oh thanks for the quick reply Fox, I guess I'll go buy component cables later. I saw them in the mall for $20 and I only had $19 =(

My dad surprised my mom on their anniversary by buying a 34" Rear Projection TV. I think this is more stable than other TVs in terms of lag, but I'm not too sure.

EDIT: Woops I was thinking of my friends TV. My TV is 42"

 

[Igneous42]

well I do have component cables so I guess that helps. Honestly I have no idea why it resist lag, but I know we even play guitar hero on it and have no problems. It's a Sharp Aquos here I found a site with all it's features

http://www.sharpusa.com/products/ModelLanding/0,1058,1834,00.html

so should my TV be ok for Brawl? Any tips in case I do encounter lag?

 

[MRCRAWFISH]

When people can't get something, they try and convince themselves it sucks.

Only in guitar hero, otherwise a few milliseconds will not throw you off, your response time isn't even close to that.

 

[MRCRAWFISH]

so should my TV be ok for Brawl? Any tips in case I do encounter lag?

If you don't lag in Guitar Hero, you're fine, my TV sucked in guitar hero but I can't feel delay in actual games even in interlaced GCN games. The TC doesn't know what she's talking about becuase she doesn't have an LCD tv