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Sure, fair enough. But to explain, my original thinking during the night was Fonti+ 2 of wam/pythag/frozen. But frozen is leaning town if Fonti is town. And if Fonti is town then that means I need to reconsider you. Thus, pythag, wam and you were top of my mind to interrogate.
Vote : mass claimPythag , vote on mass claim?
Maybe? I don't really fake emotions as scum, I feel them and then twist them to what I need, and I can be pretty manipulative in the process. Scum!me would probably be upset about having to yeet Xivii and Bessie, though she wouldn't feel the same level of uh, betrayal. I might have genuinely tried to reach out to them in a similar way and been upset when they rebuffed it, I'm not sure.
I do not trust Laser.
So interrogate away? You mentioned that I had promised more thoughts. I have posted more thoughts and you havent asked anything?
#HBC | FrozeηFlame
and
HeuryAlone
Have been prodded.
I was saying to Kary that you were on my list to question, but I hadn't done so because you were very forthcoming without questioning. But I was waiting for you to answer Mala's question:
Also,
This seems like pretty bad logic. If Fonti is scum then their first choice kill is LaserGuy or I since we are both clearly giving for her. Chaco would be a distant third.
I was thinking this as well last night, though when I saw Chaco died I rationalized it as if Laser had died, he wasn't really universally townread, and had already claimed vanilla, so the only explanation people would think of was he was pushing the right people.
Missed the question. Basically I dont think fonti has committed to the big pushes either. I was viewing them as two separate options but yes overlap is definitely possible.
The thread seemed dead I was trying to get something going!
Scum making this kind of statement stop around the "when reading gorf," because that's the message they feel they have to put out there, but Frozen continues talking about how Gorf may have been /more/ defensive than expected, expanding his thought process outwards, and making a more nuanced point. Feels like a real thought shared, not part of an agenda.
Not clearing, but goofy in a way Mignight Ops!Frozen wasn't.oh **** maybe you're just outplaying me by tone shifting just like I did from midnight ops to vanilla mafia
Yeah, the guy was just having a lot of fun with his opening.
Oh, Gorf.
Kary's tone was always pretty dismissive.
Wam jumps in to figure out if Sabrar's push on Frozen is real. W/w indicative.
Chaco thought Mala was super townie.LaserGuy Underwhelmed so far. Present but hardly any presence. Best post is the one about your coaching of Mala, but I have a differing opinion on that. Everything else is null. Nothing to really form on them yet from minimal content. Their reaction to wagon is indifference so nothing could be read from it, so L-1 may help. Mala’s reaction was clear cut townie.
Gorf reaction kind of the opposite of Frozen's, in that it has a purpose, doesn't meander, admits to a lack of knowledge, and uses that as a reason to hedge. Dislike. Somi read was good, Dark Horse could be w/w. Asking about the female pronouns may say something about a teammate? Could mean no female teammates, could me one female teammate and that's how this got brought up, probably not something I'll get anything meaningful out.
Kary instinctively lashes out at people a lot. Probably town indicative, "everyone is against me" mentality. Explains why she reacted so poorly to my interference.Cool, I will ignore your vote then.
Still really like this. It's a weird angle for scum to even think of, let alone pursue.
Potentially a really good readslist. Come back to later. Reads obv weak, not a point against him this early on.
Dislike the "okay well." More defensive than expected? Like the language is justifying when Kary was doing the interrogating in the first place, and has nothing to justify.
Probably a good read of somi. Kary liked the post, probably agreed with it? Relevant if either Laser or Kary voted for somi at eod.
Laser agrees with most of Boom's list. Weird, considering Somi is mid-to-low tier, and Laser just called him town.
Sorts people by how they feel in the game before sorting by alignment.
Yeah, I can see the connected vibes from those posts.
Why did he want to sort by author at this point? Isoing? Did he ever actually iso people after this? Why follow up asking about Chaco when a bunch of people have already asked? Was nothing else in the list objectionable to him? Compare Boom's list to next readslist Wam posts.
Boom either ****s with people to get reads or pretends to **** with people to get reads, no surprises here.
Really good reads, especially if Wam is scum and Dark Horse town. Scum Pythag could just be murdering his strong townreads? Town Pythag could just be good at the game. Check to see if "Synchronicity - If this account starts arguing in bad faith/mudding the waters kill it immediately" mentality is reflected in any followup. Boom read is super detailed, but kind of focused on explaining Pythag's actions? DH read isn't actually a read on DH, and doesn't match the position DH is in. Mala is forgotten, cries about it later, Mala not w/w with Pythag.
Skeevy.
This tunnel started /so/ early.
Kind of weird that Mala said this early, but now that a lot of strong players have died, he's just sheeping Laser and wants him to decide who claims? Implies that he has a much strong reason to townread Laser, don't remember seeing something like that Yesterday, reminder to look again.
I don’t get how this logic leads to t v t for my slot and DH at all.
Kind of like Dark Horse calling Pythag out.
Again, very reasonable, and similar to what I was thinking about Somi at the time. Think DH came across as reasonable in general, but that doesn’t mean he’s towny.
The team would have to literally be a combo Boom, Laser, Pythag and Mala for me to be doing better than Gorf was.
Why does this matter?
Early wam scumread. Yeah, why didn’t Wam ask about gorf instead of Chaco? Lurking behind other opinions kind of a throughline for Today. Look at all Wam votes over time. Wam says he thinks that I haven’t been pushing people Today, uses that as a reason to push me. Could be a reflection of how he plays scum.
Feel like this is actually a reason to townread DH and Gorf just can’t see it. Not sure I agree, will keep that Gorf might have been tunneling in mind.
Throughline from Mala on “not waiting to trust x easily.” Said something similar about me Yesterday.
It really doesn’t feel genuine. DH trying to push Gorf away from him/Wam to make him fight with Sabrar? DH said he was interested when I went after Laser Day 1 because it was a push on a strong player, possible he views Gorf calling Sabrar scummy the same way and is genuinely trying to let Gorf be towny to him?
Mission failed.
Chaco case isn’t terrible? Kind of uncharitable in what’s described as fluff. The
Was clearly just about Syn, not about Wam or Boom, who Chaco was more focused on, so “All that questioning about people's experience earlier and this is the outcome.” is inaccurate. Could just be Laser not reading closely. Probably something I would ask about instead of casing, but that’s style difference. Point about Mala being potentially being with Chaco is throughline of Laser looking for partners to his reads as he develops them, look to see if thought process continued. Pushed game forward.
Wording could be overemphasis on chillness (“all good” “legit” “af” “catch you in the next one” “how am I not supposed to reward that”), trying too hard? “Boom” is supposed to be Laser. Makes the push more about Laser and about Frozen’s feelings than actual suspicion on Chaco, kind of scummy. Overall vibe still feels good on emotional level.all good though gorf understandable, playing legit mafia without a computer really is tedious af, sad to see you drop but ill catch you in the next one
boom is just validating my ping from chaco re: the equality comment, how am I not supposed to reward that?
Unvote: Gorf/Fontissian
Vote: Chaco
Was this about the Chaco push? Why should he have seen Laser’s push coming, why does it matter?
Similar logic behind townread on me, very self-oriented.
Still don’t know what this means, still don’t know why he liked my response.lol alright alright guys everyone get your shots in early
Matches Bessie notes on how if Chaco is town he is way overconfident on his Boomfrog read, **** I hate me sometimes.
Syn did the testing stuff with Frozen too, should have seen that’s what they were doing. Like how Frozen feels in response, still self-oriented, but annoyed that Syn isn’t being straight with him and trying to help.
Note Sabrar things for why he died.
Ripping apart Gorf reads concerning, if Wam/DH mafia. Ironically those reads get worse if Laser is scum though. Could be attempt to push me away from where Gorf stood, probably not. Second part means he assumed Boom’s townread of Chaco was mostly fake, kind of a weird interaction for s/s.
Good defense of Sabrar. Reminder that Laser knows Syn member v well, would be able to townread them when others cannot.
Felt v towny from Chaco at time, remember being surprised when Laser kept pushing after.[/quote]So I get criticized for putting out the earliest reads in the game? Criticized for keeping up with excessive content and when I town it down I’m scummy for it? Like this truthfully doesn’t even make any sense. There’s nothing telling about your case here at all other than you’re trying to force a reason to push me. It honestly makes me think of endgame midnight when you said I tried to make stuff stick to you but never could. This is even weaker. See this is why I was even afraid to tone it down cause I knew someone would try and attack it as scummy. Look at the paper trail and you’ll see that I said this even in a discussion with you. Maybe that’s how you thought of it though?
Scum making this kind of statement stop around the "when reading gorf," because that's the message they feel they have to put out there, but Frozen continues talking about how Gorf may have been /more/ defensive than expected, expanding his thought process outwards, and making a more nuanced point. Feels like a real thought shared, not part of an agenda.
Not clearing, but goofy in a way Mignight Ops!Frozen wasn't.oh **** maybe you're just outplaying me by tone shifting just like I did from midnight ops to vanilla mafia
Yeah, the guy was just having a lot of fun with his opening.
Oh, Gorf.
Kary's tone was always pretty dismissive.
Wam jumps in to figure out if Sabrar's push on Frozen is real. W/w indicative.
Chaco thought Mala was super townie.
Gorf reaction kind of the opposite of Frozen's, in that it has a purpose, doesn't meander, admits to a lack of knowledge, and uses that as a reason to hedge. Dislike. Somi read was good, Dark Horse could be w/w. Asking about the female pronouns may say something about a teammate? Could mean no female teammates, could me one female teammate and that's how this got brought up, probably not something I'll get anything meaningful out.
Kary instinctively lashes out at people a lot. Probably town indicative, "everyone is against me" mentality. Explains why she reacted so poorly to my interference.Cool, I will ignore your vote then.
Still really like this. It's a weird angle for scum to even think of, let alone pursue.
Potentially a really good readslist. Come back to later. Reads obv weak, not a point against him this early on.
Dislike the "okay well." More defensive than expected? Like the language is justifying when Kary was doing the interrogating in the first place, and has nothing to justify.
Probably a good read of somi. Kary liked the post, probably agreed with it? Relevant if either Laser or Kary voted for somi at eod.
Laser agrees with most of Boom's list. Weird, considering Somi is mid-to-low tier, and Laser just called him town.
Sorts people by how they feel in the game before sorting by alignment.
Yeah, I can see the connected vibes from those posts.
Why did he want to sort by author at this point? Isoing? Did he ever actually iso people after this? Why follow up asking about Chaco when a bunch of people have already asked? Was nothing else in the list objectionable to him? Compare Boom's list to next readslist Wam posts.
Boom either ****s with people to get reads or pretends to **** with people to get reads, no surprises here.
Really good reads, especially if Wam is scum and Dark Horse town. Scum Pythag could just be murdering his strong townreads? Town Pythag could just be good at the game. Check to see if "Synchronicity - If this account starts arguing in bad faith/mudding the waters kill it immediately" mentality is reflected in any followup. Boom read is super detailed, but kind of focused on explaining Pythag's actions? DH read isn't actually a read on DH, and doesn't match the position DH is in. Mala is forgotten, cries about it later, Mala not w/w with Pythag.
Skeevy.
This tunnel started /so/ early.
Kind of weird that Mala said this early, but now that a lot of strong players have died, he's just sheeping Laser and wants him to decide who claims? Implies that he has a much strong reason to townread Laser, don't remember seeing something like that Yesterday, reminder to look again.
I don’t get how this logic leads to t v t for my slot and DH at all.
Kind of like Dark Horse calling Pythag out.
Again, very reasonable, and similar to what I was thinking about Somi at the time. Think DH came across as reasonable in general, but that doesn’t mean he’s towny.
The team would have to literally be a combo Boom, Laser, Pythag and Mala for me to be doing better than Gorf was.
Why does this matter?
Early wam scumread. Yeah, why didn’t Wam ask about gorf instead of Chaco? Lurking behind other opinions kind of a throughline for Today. Look at all Wam votes over time. Wam says he thinks that I haven’t been pushing people Today, uses that as a reason to push me. Could be a reflection of how he plays scum.
Feel like this is actually a reason to townread DH and Gorf just can’t see it. Not sure I agree, will keep that Gorf might have been tunneling in mind.
Throughline from Mala on “not waiting to trust x easily.” Said something similar about me Yesterday.
It really doesn’t feel genuine. DH trying to push Gorf away from him/Wam to make him fight with Sabrar? DH said he was interested when I went after Laser Day 1 because it was a push on a strong player, possible he views Gorf calling Sabrar scummy the same way and is genuinely trying to let Gorf be towny to him?
Mission failed.
Chaco case isn’t terrible? Kind of uncharitable in what’s described as fluff. The
Was clearly just about Syn, not about Wam or Boom, who Chaco was more focused on, so “All that questioning about people's experience earlier and this is the outcome.” is inaccurate. Could just be Laser not reading closely. Probably something I would ask about instead of casing, but that’s style difference. Point about Mala being potentially being with Chaco is throughline of Laser looking for partners to his reads as he develops them, look to see if thought process continued. Pushed game forward.
Wording could be overemphasis on chillness (“all good” “legit” “af” “catch you in the next one” “how am I not supposed to reward that”), trying too hard? “Boom” is supposed to be Laser. Makes the push more about Laser and about Frozen’s feelings than actual suspicion on Chaco, kind of scummy. Overall vibe still feels good on emotional level.all good though gorf understandable, playing legit mafia without a computer really is tedious af, sad to see you drop but ill catch you in the next one
boom is just validating my ping from chaco re: the equality comment, how am I not supposed to reward that?
Unvote: Gorf/Fontissian
Vote: Chaco
Was this about the Chaco push? Why should he have seen Laser’s push coming, why does it matter?
Similar logic behind townread on me, very self-oriented.
Still don’t know what this means, still don’t know why he liked my response.lol alright alright guys everyone get your shots in early
Matches Bessie notes on how if Chaco is town he is way overconfident on his Boomfrog read, **** I hate me sometimes.
Syn did the testing stuff with Frozen too, should have seen that’s what they were doing. Like how Frozen feels in response, still self-oriented, but annoyed that Syn isn’t being straight with him and trying to help.
Note Sabrar things for why he died.
Ripping apart Gorf reads concerning, if Wam/DH mafia. Ironically those reads get worse if Laser is scum though. Could be attempt to push me away from where Gorf stood, probably not. Second part means he assumed Boom’s townread of Chaco was mostly fake, kind of a weird interaction for s/s.
Good defense of Sabrar. Reminder that Laser knows Syn member v well, would be able to townread them when others cannot.
Felt v towny from Chaco at time, remember being surprised when Laser kept pushing after.So I get criticized for putting out the earliest reads in the game? Criticized for keeping up with excessive content and when I town it down I’m scummy for it? Like this truthfully doesn’t even make any sense. There’s nothing telling about your case here at all other than you’re trying to force a reason to push me. It honestly makes me think of endgame midnight when you said I tried to make stuff stick to you but never could. This is even weaker. See this is why I was even afraid to tone it down cause I knew someone would try and attack it as scummy. Look at the paper trail and you’ll see that I said this even in a discussion with you. Maybe that’s how you thought of it though?
HeuryAlone
isn't able to be here, can we get a new replacement? No offense intended to HeuryAlone, I get that you're probably busy and there's a lot to catch up, but your slot was scummy before you replaced in, and not having someone here who has to commit to things means it can just slide on by forever.
Powerful people in this case was referring to people with power roles. IIRC only Sabrar had a power role, and I really doubt that was a power role kill instead of hey lets kill the smart towny kill. Reason for TRing Laser is because of his post where he was like yada yada vote me then vote these people yada yada. Well, that is a big factor. Also ngl I don't really get the importance of whoever choices first, like sure Scum buds could throw their scumbuds last or something, but if that person flips scum then we can get some info out of that too.
I came very very close. But I want to try and use my power going forward. I also didnt want to cause issues if there is another tracker or watcher (highly unlikely I think).
EoD2 mind meld on Fonti is what clinched it. Obviously the "game solve and claim" post helped, although I do think scum you could have faked that. But tripeling down on the tunnel even when I called you out on it also felt townie. (strategic side note, I don't think claiming was a good move, and it only got townie points for bizareness.)BoomFrog , when did you decide I was Town?
I was giveing an intentionally incorrect summery of Chaco's point because I wanted him to explain again without telling him what the "right" answer was. I did the same think to Mala D2 when questioning him about why he town read me for flipping my EoD1 vote.
Yes. If I had realized why Laser was going to push Chaco then I could have asked LAser to wait so that we could see if Chaco naturally returned to his normal townie posting style or not. Once Laser pointed out the discrepency then the test was tainted.
I had previously "insulted" frozen about "not knowing how to play town" and then you called him "less slimy" which is saying his scum play was slimy. He read it as a good natured ribbing about how badly he'd played previous games because he's self conscious about it. This might be a "macho culture" thing which you presumably have less personal experience with. But the "macho" response to being ribbed is to laugh at yourself and move on, which is what he did. Like your post, go "yeah yeah" and move on.
Just to make sure I'm not misreading. Does this mean scummates with? "wolf with" I guess?
Malakandra
your up.
LaserGuy
Didn't DH vote Somi over Wam at eod, while saying Frozen and I were super scummy and while Frozen and I were pushing Somi? I remember it being weird at the time.OK, thanks, I misread that.
So, first, what do you mean about going around in circles? I feel like you haven't been going in circles at all, you've been pushing me for like 3 straight Days?
Also, please explain why you're asking Mala to claim first instead of me, but you can wait until after Mala claims.
Fwiw, when rereading eod, I kind of townread Boom voting me, because it was so different from what he was saying before.
OK.
At that point, you were pretty strongly townreading Chaco and only had Laser as slight town, right? So, wouldn't Laser's case on Chaco still be useful for you in getting a read on Laser, when you already had a read on Chaco?
Oohhh, yeah, that's makes sense, thanks.
By circles I dont mean me. I mean the thread were going to give back to the mid if day 1 and I will be 1 of the wagons eod again.
OK, thanks, I misread that.
For the last part, say a bunch of town claim and there's no doc. If a scum claims last, they can claim a doc role or bulleproof or something and know they won't get counterclaimed.
So, first, what do you mean about going around in circles? I feel like you haven't been going in circles at all, you've been pushing me for like 3 straight Days?
Next, to be, clear, you're saying you targeted Sabrar and Chaco on the Night each of them died? They weren't in communication with you at any point? Is so, why target them? What was the rational? Were you not worried Chaco was going to die after Sabrar did?
I almost want to clear you for this? Like, if you are a scum!neighborizer, why not target someone you know is going to be alive on one of those nights? That's only if you are a neighborizer though, but we can make you target someone Tonight and confirm it.
Yes, your recollection of this is correct. He complained about how skeevy the wagon was afterward as well (while acknowledging that he was on it).
