Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

[Wam]

Too obvious town to be killed? Explain?

If you thought Chaco was too scummy to die, were you worried at all you were neighborizing scum? Did you have any plan for that happening?

N1 scum want to make sure the kill goes through and dont knownthe town powers. Sabrar was an obvious doc/watcher target if we have one.

It was a risk but I dont get told their alignment and they dont get mine so I just had to.judge it based on my reads. Then try and use the neigbour chat to get a better feel.

 

[fontisian]

We can delay talking about who Wam should target until the claims come in. I have some ideas for the critera that target has to meet (Can't be someone scum would just shoot (that's potentially countered by offering two targets), absolutely cannot be someone Wam is scum with).

I also want confirmation that no one else is in a neighborchat with Wam or has another reason to believe he's lying. That should be stated with each claim.

Kind of thinking about a Mala/Wam/DH world. Could leave Wam and yeet DH today. Am probably getting ahead of myself.

Mala, claim.

 

[fontisian]

N1 scum want to make sure the kill goes through and dont knownthe town powers. Sabrar was an obvious doc/watcher target if we have one.

It was a risk but I dont get told their alignment and they dont get mine so I just had to.judge it based on my reads. Then try and use the neigbour chat to get a better feel.

How badly did you want to target town over scum on a scale from one to ten?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Sorry guys work really picked up at the end of the week last week and I was stuck working parts of the weekend to prep for my stupid amount of hearings scheduled for this week, prod received and I'm gonna do what I can to make the most of the shorter period time we have this phase

Sync was Town. What a surprising development. I wish I had a better font to express my sarcasm.

@FrozenFlame, what do you think about Sync's #1722.

confidence that synch was town feels TMI imo but also I feel like its such a misplay to essentially passively aggressively say "I told you so" like this

what part, of #1722? it's huge. If you're just asking me to respond to synch's case on me, the short version is that synch was obviously paranoid af about me, well atleast xivii was (notes from that post seem to indicate that bessie was having trouble reading me and just deferred to xivii), and xivii was very riled up from what from his POV seemed like blatant scum!fonti and scum!frozen buddying. I can understand, given that POV, why he was reading my posts as scum pings for what he describes as faking being frustrated and lost. unfortunately that's just the reality, I AM frustrated and lost this game and need to do a wholesale reassessment of the game because I've essentially been wrong about everything so far

I am not in a particularly healthy place mentally wrt game. I spent more time over the Night phase getting mad at Syn and then thinking about where my communication with them went then I did actually rereading and trying to hash out my reads.

I am going to be withdrawn over the next two or so irl days while I figure out where I stand and what I want to do. I will answer question addressed to me in the meantime.

someone from XKCD please help me parse this because this is kind of intense and I'm not sure if its out of character for scum!fonti

Vote:No mass claim

Entirely on principle

what principle and why do you hold that principle?

I declared frozen likely town after he passed my test and I had more direct interaction with him. However, you're right, his justification to vote Sync didn't leave me with a good impression.

#HBC | FrozeηFlame What's your current read on Fonti and me?

what about my synch vote didn't leave a good impression? I was consistent on being pro synch yeet all day, I only unvoted out of safety because I didn't realize I put it at L-1 and then fonti asked me to and I thought that was prudent. I felt like synch had legitimately been trying to trip me up and "get me" all game and I stand by that. Now seeing the town flip and reflecting on our exchanges I can kind of understand why xivii was so suss of me but frankly he just was confusing my genuine struggle to sort this game with feigned lostness and confusion. It's and easy mistake to make no doubt, especially considering xivii having just played with me in two consecutive games in which I was scum, but it is and was a mistake. I mistook xivii's genuine paranoia of my slot as scum motivated fake skepticism that he was using to justify continuing to nitpick and push me over and over to get what he perceived as a justifiable misyeet, you live and you learn

as for my reads on you and fonti, I'm currently doing a wholesale reassessment of this game but in general terms I'd say your stock has remained close to neutral with a slight trend upward given your D2 play, and fonti's stock has dropped considerably since I've realize my reads have been absolute garbage this game. very seriously reconsidering my firm belief that fonti wouldn't pocket me as unlikely as my gut tells me it is

I'm the town neighborizer. I can setup a 1to1 chat with someone which lasts until they are eliminated. Then I can replace them. My targets have been sabrar N1 and chaco N2.

you need to provide rationale for choosing these two slots ASAP, and the fact that didn't in this post already comes off extremely scummy

I came very very close. But I want to try and use my power going forward. I also didnt want to cause issues if there is another tracker or watcher (highly unlikely I think).

why would you ever not use this power? what do you mean by "causing issues?" be specific

ngl this feels like a claim designed to get out in front of and mollify a potential watcher sitting with incriminating info, especially given the info given by Sabrars flip as a tracker

also, why didn't you ever think to claim this D1 when you were on the brink of elimination? this is a very low impact and yet also CONFIRMABLE power. You didn't think it might be a good idea to say "hey guys instead of misyeeting me today, why dont yall just direct my power to confirm it?" Even if it put a target on your back and scum NK you to avoid the clear, it's better than "being an easy misyeet", in your own terms, for D3. So yeah, why didn't you make this claim sooner given the relative weakness but confirmability of your power?

also pretty crazy that synch thought fonti and I were neighbors and there's actually a neighborizer in the game, just not me or fonti lol

Also, with Wam claiming first like this voluntarily, are we just conceding to him starting the popcorn chain and having mala go second and so on and so forth? I don't have any problem with proceeding this way

generally, I need to do a wholesale reassessment of this game because everywhere I've pointed has come up town. the fact that I'm still alive I think is a testament to my incompetence this game, clearly the scum do not fear that I have a solve up my sleeve and are fine with the town having my as a townread because my votes have been nothing but an asset to them.

My notes say that Malak has townie tone, Gorf/fonti is town and if Dark Horse is scum then Gorf must be scum which together with the previous must mean that Dark Horse is town as well.

This is a really interesting pairing that I think is worth looking into, just thinking out loud here

kary's play feels more and more reactive instead of proactive the more I re-read the slot. He's also been very generally town read and I'm honestly surprised he was not the NK given how many people have him has town or just haven't ever pushed the slot. I'm guilty of this too, def have been pretty freely townreading kary so far and now I'm starting to worry of this slot snowing me (sorry Chaco, my paranoia was misplaced!)

Malakandra why were you so upset with being in the hammer position D1 but were all too excited to hammer D2?

 

[fontisian]

Wam, did you think I was scum and Laser/Boom/Chaco town going into N2?

 

[Wam]

How badly did you want to target town over scum on a scale from one to ten?

About a 7-8.

 

[BoomFrog]

fontisian Talk to me about EoD2. Laser and I, the two people with the best meta reads of Sync predicted that town sync would make a farewell post with the expectation of still being exed. They made that post in an unhirried way, so they clearly weren't trying to avoid the yeet. That was the towniest death I've ever seen. I get their accusation on you felt unfair, but I can't understand how you read that as scum motivated instead of just wrong town.

 

[Wam]

Wam, did you think I was scum and Laser/Boom/Chaco town going into N2?

I was sold on you as scum. I thought chaco and laser misguided town. Boom I reserved judgement.

 

[Wam]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

Answers below.

1) I have never liked mass claims we can argue about it after if you want.
2) rationale is already there
3) by issues if I claimed Vt then added a town player to a chat in what world would I not be insta yeeted. Or someone out there has me visiting a nk target and see me claim ct then again insta yeet.
4) came very close to claiming a few times but didnt.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I like Lasers 1866 and its inspired me to do my own PoE centric take based on where my leans have been historically this game:

Town reads:
1. Fontisian [SNOW WARNING]
2. Kary [SNOW WARNING]
7. Pythag [first the bill for coaster scum but he pings town for me]

Meh:
8. BoomFrog [my most wavering read all game]
12. Malakandra [been a very hard slot for me to sort this game]

Can go:
13. Wam [somehow swerved elim twice in favor of town misyeets happening, claim is suss af]
5. HeuryAlone Replacement for Dark Horse [never have felt good about this slot all game and regret not trying to pressure the slot more]

so if my gut isn't way off base this game PoE tells me scumteam is some combo of boom/wam/DH or mala/wam/DH but given how my reads have been turning out I'm not confident of this at all, going to be doing some deep introspection re: the snow warnings because it would be asinine to deny that I could be pocketed by kary or font at this point

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

Answers below.

1) I have never liked mass claims we can argue about it after if you want.
2) rationale is already there
3) by issues if I claimed Vt then added a town player to a chat in what world would I not be insta yeeted. Or someone out there has me visiting a nk target and see me claim ct then again insta yeet.
4) came very close to claiming a few times but didnt.

1. Not looking to argue with you or proselytize any particular take on mass claims, I just wanted to understand what the "principle" was. So your principle is simply that you personally dislike mass claims? Is that because you believe they're anti-town in some way? Or because you just personally don't like how claims impact the game from a player enjoyment standpoint? or something else?

2. I got ninja'd by your reponses to fonti so I see that now, thanks

3. oh ok I didn't realize you were saying that "claiming VT and then continuing to use my power could cause issues." I thought you were just saying generally, that with your claim of neighbor, that using your power could cause issues

4. Very much interested in your thought process in those moments. Please more directly respond to this point: "also, why didn't you ever think to claim this D1 when you were on the brink of elimination? this is a very low impact and yet also CONFIRMABLE power. You didn't think it might be a good idea to say "hey guys instead of misyeeting me today, why dont yall just direct my power to confirm it?" Even if it put a target on your back and scum NK you to avoid the clear, it's better than "being an easy misyeet", in your own terms, for D3. So yeah, why didn't you make this claim sooner given the relative weakness but confirmability of your power?"

 

[BoomFrog]

At that point, you were pretty strongly townreading Chaco and only had Laser as slight town, right? So, wouldn't Laser's case on Chaco still be useful for you in getting a read on Laser, when you already had a read on Chaco?

All reads were written in sand at that point. It would help to harden a town Chaco read. I hadn't really thought about it from the "try to read Laser for his case" angle, I was just annoyed that my plan had been spoiled.

someone from XKCD please help me parse this because this is kind of intense and I'm not sure if its out of character for scum!fonti

She's not from XKCD either. ¯\(ツ)/¯

came very close to claiming a few times but didnt.

Be more specific please. Why did you decide not to claim, specifically right before you had to step away from the thread at EoD1 and it was down to you or Somi?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Vote Count 1.14

Somitomi(7): Chaco, Fontisian, Synchronicity, FrozenFlame, Dark Horse, Wam, Boomfrog
Wam (5): Sabrar, Pythag, Kary, LaserGuy, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (1): Malakandra,

A majority has been reached! Please refrain from posting as I prepare the flip.

Vote Count 2.14

Synchronicity(6): Wam, Frozen Flame, Chaco, Kary, Pythag, Malakandra
Wam (2): HeuryAlone, LaserGuy,
Fontisian(2): Synchronicity, BoomFrog

Not voting (1):Fontisian,

A Majority has been reached. Please no more posting.

gonna stare long and hard at these votecounts, yall should do the same

also the fact that theyre both X.14 votecounts is crazy coincidental

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

She's not from XKCD either. ¯\(ツ)/¯

wait wtf really? where did I get that idea from? guess yall XKCDers just come off as having real rapport with her lol

fonti what was your "home" mafia site, out of curiousity?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

fonti's posts today feel really townie, snow flurries are starting to settle

 

[fontisian]

fontisian Talk to me about EoD2. Laser and I, the two people with the best meta reads of Sync predicted that town sync would make a farewell post with the expectation of still being exed. They made that post in an unhirried way, so they clearly weren't trying to avoid the yeet. That was the towniest death I've ever seen. I get their accusation on you felt unfair, but I can't understand how you read that as scum motivated instead of just wrong town.

I thought you, Synch and Laser were all scum using the fact that I wasn't going to be around at eod to swing the yeet onto me in a last ditch effort to save Syn with the Wam yeet going nowhere. Then I had to go, after basically only reading the first part , and while driving I realized Syn must have been writing the case way before I said I wouldn't be there, though i self-justified as the part against me being written last, and then by the time I could check in again the Day was over.

 

[fontisian]

wait wtf really? where did I get that idea from? guess yall XKCDers just come off as having real rapport with her lol

fonti what was your "home" mafia site, out of curiousity?

Dlp.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

missed Laserguy in 1890, he's below pythag and above boom

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Dlp.

no idea what that is and I'll leave it at that lol unless you feel like telling me what that means to humor me

 

[Pythag]

Spoiler: laser's big post

Been doing some rereading and I feel like my reads are slowly entering into Twilight Zone territory.

On reread, I am convinced Frozen and pythag are Town. Kary and Malakandra still feel townie to me from previous reread.

My brain says fonti is probably scum but my heart says Town. I'm getting a sort of deja vu feeling with fonti reprising the role of Synchronicity as the designated yeet in today's proceedings. I skimmed over fonti in SS and she was completely different in that game. Among other things, fonti seems genuinely shaken by Sync flipping Town here, whereas in SS she just moved on without a second thought. A lot of my reasons for being suspicious of fonti also hinged on Chaco being mafia which has turned out not to be the case. My brain has not been doing super well this game so I'm leaning toward just trusting my instinct here.

pedit: Haven't looked at the most recent posts in detail.

Which leaves me with Dark Horse, BoomFrog and wam as scum, which I'm not super happy with. But they're the only people (outside of fonti) that I haven't found a solid way to clear. I really want to clear BoomFrog based on my impressions of him during EoD2 and I'm not sold on him being buddies with wam. It does bother me that up until EoD2 I didn't really have a solid impression of him when I feel like in recent games I've been able to pick out Town!Boom pretty well. Uncertain what to make of Boom now buddying me. I feel like under normal circumstances I'd probably have him at maybe a Town lean, it's just he ends up in the PoE because I'm much more certain about pythag/Kary/Mala/Frozen being Town.

DH's content is thinner than I remember. I can't point to anything in particular that stands out as really scummy, more just I haven't found anything that is convincingly Town outside of that I like his tone. Pretty much same problem as Boom. I don't hate the slot; everyone else just looks much better.

I would be very surprised if wam was not scum, but my reads this game have been sufficiently bad that I don't even know anymore. Boom/DH/wam is not an impossible team, thought it does imply a lot of bussing, at least of wam. But most likely I'm wrong on at least one of the three because that seems to be the trend for this game.

LIKELY TOWN (no particular ordering)
LaserGuy
pythag
Frozen
Kary
Malakandra

VERY AMBIVALENT
fonti

POE SCUM
BoomFrog
Dark Horse/heury
wam


At this point, I think I'd prefer to yeet wam as it's the only read that I'm really happy with. But I'd love to take a stronger shot if we can find one because I don't think a scum flip on wam will really break the game open in the same way as pretty much any other scum flip would.

Vote: wam

This post rockets Laser into town territory for me.

I really like the 'brain thinks scum, heart thinks town' for fonti, that hits me as super genuine.

I also think I agree with a lot of the read list, though I'm honestly kinda surprised that I don't see any emphasis on Kary right now.
I have a hard time forming a case because I thought Syn was being scummy, and if Kary is town who is after someone who looks scummy as well...then we could both have been making the same mistake, Kary was just there sooner than I was.

I'm not sold on scum!frog yet, but I see how PoE lands people on that conclusion.

Wam what do you think the scum team is?

 

[fontisian]

no idea what that is and I'll leave it at that lol unless you feel like telling me what that means to humor me

Sorry on phone, doing work stuff. Dark Lord Potter. Can link when home.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

also as heads up to everyone, this is very possibly MYLO even in a 6v3 scenario. Given how many VT flips we have I'm thinking this is a low power game and that we probably aren't in mylo, but if scum have a 1 shot double kill or floating hitman/strongman kill that they can use once per game in addition to the standard NK, then we're in mylo as losing 3 townies brings us to parity. if there only one NK again then a misyeet here brings us to 4v3 which is for sure lylo, unless we're actually in a 9v4 game like sabrar suggested at the start in which case today is lylo. Again, given the number of VT flips Im a bit more comfortable with the idea that today isn't MYLO/LYLO but just wanted to make sure everyone is aware

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

gonna stare long and hard at these votecounts, yall should do the same

also the fact that theyre both X.14 votecounts is crazy coincidental

Kary being on Wam wagon D1 but then on synch D2 looks most suss to me just on the surface

props to laserguy for consistency

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

ok wait legitmately have we heard ANYTHING from DH/Heury slot since the replacement?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

just checked and the answer is no, literally only post from Heury is his into post

Vote: HeuryAlone

HeuryAlone now that you've had ample time to read the whole game, thoughts?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Pythag if you had to choose the elim today, who would you choose and why?

 

[fontisian]

I was sold on you as scum. I thought chaco and laser misguided town. Boom I reserved judgement.

But you also said you thought that the Chaco kill meant that I was scum. This doesn't make sense?

 

[fontisian]

Home site: https://forums.darklordpotter.net/forums/little-italy.126/
Game I was talking about earlier: https://forums.darklordpotter.net/threads/joat-2-15er-a-mafia-game.39492/

I don't have a recent scumgame on there to link, it's been actual years.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

SvT on Synch v Kary, unless I’m grossly wrong. I really don’t see any way Synch doesn’t flip scum here.

I feel there whole agenda with trying to push on me was to get off the block for toDay and target someone with influence against them. Probably would have been a Kary or Fonti NK after a Lynch on me had they been successful. It all seems to track. You can tell they were grasping because I wouldn’t have called attention to go back and look numerous times had I legitimately slipped and wouldn’t be highlighting a mislynch as scum, and they have to produce something like that to actually be able to pivot on the town stance they’ve deemed me til now

Everyone needs to chime in on this

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Fonti and Synchronicity does not feel TvT. Looking closer when I get time at work.

I may have said this before but Kary v Synch doesn’t feel TvT at all.

~500 posts apart and different pairings but Chaco having this now proven to be genuine ping twice is hard to ignore, snow warning back in full ****ing effect

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

if pythag and kary are snowing me this game its by just abusing my openness and telling me exactly what I want to hear

if fonti is she did it by knowing I'd breathe a sigh of relief not having her dig her teeth into me D1 again hmmmmmm

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Wam what's your read on Pythag?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

If you somehow flip town I definitely go for Boom Fonti area. Cause I stand that laser only makes sense as scum with you. I would just have to make him work with me somehow or we would be screwed

LaserGuy why do you think Chaco thought the bolded

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Boom's interaction with Kary is strange. And with Mala. Sort of been supporting my scum reads of them throughout the game without really committing to them himself.

I’ll take a spicy Boom yeet.

Absolutely won’t go for Wam right now.

interesting takes re: boom from confirmed townflips at almost exactly the same time

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

if there is a reason why wam/mala/kary is not a possible team can someone please tell me asap? thanks in advance

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

same goes for wam/kary/DH while youre at it

 

[LaserGuy]

Laser for due diligence you should look at how Boom has treated Kary this game. It looks really weird. I'm not sure what to make of it.

So... came back to this as requested and I definitely see the vibe that Xivii is getting at.

Boom interacts with Kary a surprising amount, and a lot of it is very unprompted. Kary responds to Boom when asked, but rarely attempts to engage him beyond answering Boom's prompts. Boom also kind of low-key shades Kary's analysis (says on several occasions he feels Kary's play is shallow), but this doesn't seem to actually affect his read at all, and I don't see any equivalent comments about other players having similarly light analysis.

It's not... obviously... a buddy interaction to me. Gun to my head, it's TvS with scum!Boom cozying up to Kary and trying to improve Kary's reads of him. I'm terrible at calling these things though.

LaserGuy why do you think Chaco thought the bolded

Possibly these. There may have been another post but I'd have to look around to find it. My understanding was that he thought that my interaction to Sync was a buddy one and but didn't see me with anyone else.

Spoiler

LaserGuy I read it, but you’ve never pushed them. You’ve talked about stuff here and there, but for someone who puts out cases I haven’t seen anything sans on me. You talked about synchronicity loosely enough for me to just see it as a scum mate instead of an actual pursuit. Fonti you’ve basically only said its within her range, and that doesn’t mean you’re pushing them as scum. I wanna see some hard stances because right now the only one you’ve taken is on me.

DH
Frozen
Kary
Mala
Fonti
Wam

Boom
Pythag

Laser
Synch

Is kind’ve how my list falls rn. DH gave me so many town pings, Frozen did D1 but toDay haven’t seen much at all of him, I like how Kary is playing right now it’s abrasive and that’s hard to emulate as scum and not get cracked over the head eventually, Mala is town to me stuck in a logic loop, Fonti‘s play has been town overall, but I haven’t had the absolute moment of lock town yet (flips will help), Wam is PoE town right now and I just don’t feel he’s scum from tone and how this game has ran right now. I’m waiting for the Boom town pings but I haven’t gotten em yet, I always got them off of how he treated Xivii and with the Synch blend I haven’t seen em yet. Pythag is just a big question mark to me, like I haven’t seen anything that stands out one way or the other and he kind’ve just feels like he’s easy to forget this game. I’ve explained why I think Laser is scum and paired with Synch. Why they are at the bottom, my laser read is contingent fully on Synch flip though cause I feel like there’s been scum theatre and trying to fabricate tells here.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I mean chaco's play is noticeably less obvtown than his play in earlier games, Laser wasn't wrong about that. But that doesn't make him scum.

I don't really buy fonti's "caught for the wrong reasons." I feel like I've definitely seen town get mad at BS cases before, it strikes me more as a personality difference than an alignment difference.

anyone else feel like this is TMI-ish?

 

[fontisian]

same goes for wam/kary/DH while youre at it

Kary voted for Wam at a pretty key moment at eod1, iirc.

 

[fontisian]

Wam what's your read on Pythag?

You should talk about why you asked this after Wam answers.

 

[LaserGuy]

if there is a reason why wam/mala/kary is not a possible team can someone please tell me asap? thanks in advance

I don't think scum!Mala ends up as the deciding vote against scum!wam. He would have committed earlier. Mala defended both of us pretty hard in Midnight and I think he would have found a reason to commit earlier.