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#HBC | Kary
Ah I thought you meant potato town. But regardless I just don’t see Wam having scumbuddies and allowing him to potate it up in here. Look at his response to my analysis of him and he says I’m setting him up for a mislynch. I just can’t see him as scum with that, but you’re right, I may be giving him way to much benefit of the doubt. But I’m pretty firm in my stance of him being potato town at the moment. I could be grossly wrong, but I just can’t see any mates allowing that. Especially with this playerlist, to much depth to not be coaching along the way.
Because I currently have zero reason to trust your good judgement
1. I feel like scum Wam would do whatever his buddies told him to do. In general I think that mafia Wam is unlikely to vote for his partners on D1 but I don't remember a particularly hard bus so maybe I need to review that interaction.
2. After going deep on the things that rubbed me the wrong way about FF, I felt like I had gone too deep, so I just asked myself why he would do them as mafia. At first I was concerned because frozen was posting a lot and seemed to be throwing out a lot of accusations, then when he continued to do it I felt like he was just saying things as they come to mind and there isn't any agenda behind it. Like the somi emoji post is different to most of the things he posted but then I don't recall frozen doing reaction images before, either. I think he is just relaxed and happy and not scum for once.
3. Because I usually 'Like' things that make me laugh. And I had to ****ing laugh when I saw them finally start playing on page 10 but it's about RVS.
Here Kary indicates that he had both Frozen and Chaco as town reads, but had some reservations based on the quoted posts. This was his reasoning regarding the Chaco post:
Chaco gets called out that he shouldn't have a read on BoomFrog yet and his reaction is like "haha yeah I guess I'm not sure eh". It feels like he's trying to defuse the situation by agreeing with the criticism without actually addressing it. I can understand a light town read on Mala but I have no idea how you get to a read on Boom by this point, it's bonkers. Chaco in general seems a bit air-headed, empty. Like his question to me in RVS didn't seem to go anywhere it was just about making conversation.
It's based on an obvious misunderstanding of the context. Chaco was not going back on a Boom town read, he was giving in to everyone saying that Boom wasn't as easy to read as he thought. It had nothing to do with his read, which had not yet given at the time of this post.
#HBC | Kary
That’s not even contextual. Boom hadn’t even begun to post yet, of course I wouldn’t have a read on their slot yet. I meant a good grasp on their play altogether. Of course I’m going to not address it fully because there was nothing to address. I say I have a pretty good grasp of Boom that’s why I’m going there to see how they react Wam says no one ever has a good read on Boom, I say let me live in my illusion that I do. How is that a read on Boom? I’ve yet to put a read out on Boom this game. Sooo what was the point of the above? Or did you just not read it in context?
I was under the impression that you were townreading Boom. If you were just talking about 'your ability to read Boom correctly in general' then yeah I just misunderstood, but I feel like the point still stands, that you were challenged on something and you kind of deferred, laughed about it.
Chaco is all the way down in the scum pile and Frozen is all the way up in the town pile. And you know what? FROZEN HADN'T EVEN POSTED IN BETWEEN THESE POSTS. So why is Frozen all the way up as his third strongest town read and Chaco as a scum read when:
1) The point he made on Frozen had way more merit
2) Chaco completely dismantled the point on him
3) Chaco and Frozen were originally in the same pile and the only reason Kary was having reservations was because of the quoted posts? Chaco dismantling the point should have returned Chaco to the townie pile, and even if we assume that Kary wasn't convinced, Chaco would still be in the same pile as FrozenFlame who had not even been on to address Kary's point yet.
This is the work of someone who as a pre-planned lynch agenda, not someone who trying to solve.
Doing a post-by-post only to swerve and disagree with your own analysis is bad enough the first time.
You're trying SO hard to save yourself while also avoiding Wam for wishy-washy reasons. It seems to good to be true if you're both buddies but this is just comically bad from you at this stage Chaco, and it is increasingly obvious that you've had a cautious, scared, self-interested scum mindset all game.
This is such a backward and forced conclusion. Chaco voting somi despite ending with an overall town score is incredibly townie as it shows that he wasn't just manipulating his point system to fit his read. This is such a superficial scum read.
There are a couple of times that I've picked up on Kary not really digging into context, such as his point on Chaco going back on his Boom read. This was another one. Sabrar had already gone over this.
You were asked about it because it was the point you brought up. This backtracking is wack.
Another things is Kary has been playing up his omgSynchro is so crazy let's keep an eye on them guys all game. This is what my left brain was communicating here as an example. Kary didn't actually care about my reference to an outside game, otherwise he would have asked Sabrar the same thing. Additionally, why did Kary care about our answer enough for this to matter? It was an RVS question from Laser about how we were going to approach the game that wasn't going to go anywhere. You can also see his playing up the SnYcRo sO cRyPtic in his discussion with Pythag regarding our slot.
This chain of post is low-key defensive from Kary. It's like he was preemptively defending against Sabrar's vote by suggesting that his (Kary's) actions were RVS and so shouldn't be scrutinized. He had a similar reaction after I voted him asking if we were caught up. The right brain can sense the unease behind it, low-key trying to play it cool like he wasn't bothered and trying to solve.
I am baffled that noone has apparently cared to review LaserGuy's complete case. With the same evaluation criteria that he used for Chaco's content in this game he could have produced the following reads for the second game he quoted:
None of these advance the game state or express reads. The only reason for labelling them as 'focusing on game mechanics' and finding them townie because of that is that it can fit into LG's narrative. As expressed multiple times scum loves to talk about game mechanics because it's a safe topic to generate content in.
PS: I hate hate hate that this forum does not allow nested quotes.
The second game (Completely Vanilla) was just as fluffy if not more so than this one. Chaco also asked similar awkward questions to get the game started in the first one (Midnight).
I played 1 game as scum here, we had day-chat. From what I observed in other games scum had day-chat every time.
And a bonus piece of information: scum had N0 chat this game in addition to that.
I played 1 game as scum here, we had day-chat. From what I observed in other games scum had day-chat every time.
And a bonus piece of information: scum had N0 chat this game in addition to that.
Iv read through all of fonts posts this morning. I will put up examples later but generally each post on it's own scans well but I'm struggling to get an idea of their views other than on laserguy
I'm still viewing it as scummy as avoiding commit g day 1 is classic tell but the play is very different to gorf. I would also say scum font would be more likely to try and follow gorfs reads so that is in their favour.
Based on the above I'm swapping chaco and font in my reads list so.
I see 3 options below kn order of descending likelihood.
1. It was in some of the pre game stuff and I missed it.
2. Sabrar has some power role he is hunting at.
3. Sabrar is scum who has made a truly stupid mistake.
Also Wam
may I have your view on the Kary case above.
Been thinking about it. I like it the bit that seems to be most damming to me is the below switch.
Kary has been playing with a lynch-rather-than-solve agenda. This is most salient with his approach with Chaco.
His Approach With Chaco - The Meat of the Case:
Here Kary indicates that he had both Frozen and Chaco as town reads, but had some reservations based on the quoted posts. This was his reasoning regarding the Chaco post:
It's based on an obvious misunderstanding of the context. Chaco was not going back on a Boom town read, he was giving in to everyone saying that Boom wasn't as easy to read as he thought. It had nothing to do with his read, which had not yet given at the time of this post.
Chaco explains this here:
And Kary acknowledges that he misunderstood here:
So Chaco dismantles the point Kary makes, yet this is his read list soon after:
Chaco is all the way down in the scum pile and Frozen is all the way up in the town pile. And you know what? FROZEN HADN'T EVEN POSTED IN BETWEEN THESE POSTS. So why is Frozen all the way up as his third strongest town read and Chaco as a scum read when:
1) The point he made on Frozen had way more merit
2) Chaco completely dismantled the point on him
3) Chaco and Frozen were originally in the same pile and the only reason Kary was having reservations was because of the quoted posts? Chaco dismantling the point should have returned Chaco to the townie pile, and even if we assume that Kary wasn't convinced, Chaco would still be in the same pile as FrozenFlame who had not even been on to address Kary's point yet.
This is the work of someone who as a pre-planned lynch agenda, not someone who trying to solve.
I haven't looked at the interactions in too much detail but gut feel is I haven't see any reason they couldn't be buddies. And i f we were buddies why should I have followed lasers read?
somitomi
It just seems disingenuous. Like there’s truthfully no point to really being that forward except to gain some positive points from saying it. Like you didn’t speak out against it really per se but left sidebar commentary about it. Like it could’ve gone without saying at that point but you outline it a few times.
I outlined it once and then LaserGuy asked about it. Was I supposed to not respond? If you find the original note disingenuous, fine, but I evidently didn't mention it again of my own volition.
About Wam I’m trying to figure out if he’s shown capability of playing at the level that we generally do here because I’m unfamiliar with him. The alignment is not what I was questioning when I was searching his meta, I was trying to figure out at what level he plays mafia which will ultimately help me discern what he’s doing which will help me figure out his alignment.
I get why you want to know about Wam's mafia experience, I don't understand how post formatting and spelling factors into this. I think I've been pretty clear about that, so you repeatedly misunderstanding it starting to baffle me.
And the points I make are an overview and I i next my own opinion. Like I score you on content and then out my own thoughts into it. Like are you going to look at someone’s play and say you’ve been completely anti town because of one post where there could’ve been a scum slip? No you interject your opinion about the things in question. I don’t treat it as a means to only highlight negatives or positives but as a whole.
But if your thoughts are a separate thing, what purpose do the points serve? What do they even indicate if it's not a reflection of your opinion? I'm really not getting the whole process here.
I feel like you're ignoring the content he has given and narrating around it. Like, town!Chaco probably looks at somi before you because he's already suspicious of somi, he knows he's emotionally invested when it comes to you, somi has less content and is therefore easier to go over, and you're just a harder read in general.
Chaco reading me instead of Laser surprised me as well, mainly because Chaco listed LaserGuy as one of the people he's going to iso and I wasn't. I also don't remember Chaco finding me suspicious before that, but I haven't checked this, so I might eat my words there.
"Flailing newbie" is actually a fairly good disguise as it allows you to act erratically. Hopefully Synchronicity
can chime in and tell me exactly which game did Peaceful Whale pull this trick as scum. For what it's worth I don't think you'd try this here with so many people, who know about your previous experience and style.
I can see what your driving at I think.
If anything they are more likely to be buddies. As scum kary knows chaco is scum so drops them down without evidence.
Regarding why I chose you next, I started to read around Laser at the beginning of the game and saw that post from you and decided to go to you instead.
I’ll actually post more here in a bit I just woke up.
Iv read through all of fonts posts this morning. I will put up examples later but generally each post on it's own scans well but I'm struggling to get an idea of their views other than on laserguy
I'm still viewing it as scummy as avoiding commit g day 1 is classic tell but the play is very different to gorf. I would also say scum font would be more likely to try and follow gorfs reads so that is in their favour.
Based on the above I'm swapping chaco and font in my reads list so.
So what’s your reasoning for voting me? Because I’ve yet to really see anything other than superficial claims of “I would do that as scum” and just playing follow the leader.
Do you typically follow lasers reads a lot? Or put stock into what he says in game? I’ve noticed you mention Fonti’s stance on him above, but seemingly ignore other X players. Just curious as to why you’re more focused on Laser
Why are you trying to cast shade on someone voting for someone who is independently scummy?
Cause you think Sab's scummy?
If that's the case, in the FF, Fonti, Sab trio, are there two scum?
The team is Chaco, Sab, FF +/- Wam?
Sab is trying to bus FF based off of an argument that you made?
Or is Sab just going to bus Wam because town already finds him scummy?
Or is FF actually not scummy after all?
I think Sabrar is null which is why I was asking them for more, including whether or not they would vote Wam.
I don't think voting for Wam is scummy but I think they're an easy target.
I don't think FF is scum and have said that more than once.
And I'm not trying to complete the whole team on Day 1
This is an odd take. You've seen xivii have fun before and not responded to him in this way.
Also, Synchronicity has shown they aren't going to make every post that cryptic. Maybe synchronicity having fun isn't good if you're mafia and synchronicity is town.
I can't remember a game where I didn't have a very healthy skepticism about xivii
I said almost the exact same thing in sorcerer's 11 and it didn't seem to bother you then:
Null-scum and I haven't seen enough from him but I guess I'm obliged to give him some time since he said he was sick.
Not that he's easy to read in the first place because he plays the game for his own amusement and not towards a town win-con.
Also at this conjecture it’s completely pointless to respond to Laser. He’s hopelessly in a tunnel and doing anything he can to skew facts to make me appear scummy. Like if I had OMGUS’d him, he would’ve bitten into that so hard it’s not even funny. This double standard from Laser is so gross, but like I said, I don’t find it inherently scummy. I just think it’s horrendously dumb. Being in a tunnel like this is gonna wreck his usefulness all game though, cause he responds to literally nothing else hardly since his first case post. All it’s been since then is gaslighting and playing the victim of getting lashed out at. No ones giving the case the time of die anymore except Wam who has some desire to only merit laser reads.
I feel like Wam is scummy but it's hard to get a good read on them, and they had literally just posted that they were going to be busy having not replied to something I asked. Whereas Chaco was active and actively setting off alarm bells for me. Voting Wam there does nothing to improve my Wam read.
This sudden reversal or hedging on his own read rubs me the wrong ways. Like he was reading back over his post and realized he had committed too much to a read. The 'lmao' and especially the emojis aren't what I expect from frozen either. he's posting a lot more than I expected and seems to be committing a lot of words over little things, but then this line comes along and it's markedly different, it's a one-line thought he then immediately doubles back on.
I was poking fun at myself for being implicitly arrogant enough to think that somi isn't capable of a deliberate style shift to throw people off the scum scent after having just played in a game as scum
OK but why was that even a thought in the first place??? His play isn't even different. It's weird that you would make that conclusion so early in the first place.
Let me put this Kary/DH connection thing to bed. I made the observation in post #37. First page, 37th post. Let that sink in. It was a literal kneejerk reaction that I had to those two slots so quickly keying in on Pythag. It caught my interest, so I commented on it. No where have I ever claimed that I picked up on some guaranteed scum coordination tell or anything, I was just pointing out the simple fact that if one of those two slots flips scum, that early confluence of interest becomes a lot more interesting and shouldn't be forgotten. I was literally just putting a little flag in the sand and saying hey, if one of these slots flips scum this is probably worth another look and I left it at that. I seriously do not understand where people are getting off saying its scummy to flag an interaction like that for the sake of posterity when we have more information and early D1 interactions are easily forgotten/glossed over
The thing is, as Mala has pointed out, there was no reason to even bring this up. Why bring it up if you didn't think it was of value at the time. This is something you keep in your private notes for later, but you made this giant assessment of it. It's filler content. And the idea that scum play in a coordinated manner like that is absurd. The Right brain is having a really hard time getting over how scummy this is.
we didn't have a votecount update that came after that post to confirm for me whether you could actually double vote so I asked because it was a legitimate yet remote possibility. later votecounts obviated that
That doesn't explain why you asked though. Seriously, what were the chances that he was a doublevoter. And if you thought that was a possibility, why not simply wait for the vote count. This questioning is filler.
He believed in his posts in Midnight too. Also, you should take a look at Completely Vanilla. I feel like town!you is being thrown off by the deliberate change in playstyle from Midnight in the same way that Chaco, Xivii, and Boom were thrown off in Completely Vanilla. Frozen played completely differently from Midnight and it ended up blindsiding us. It seems to me that his play here is a carry over from that. Being scum a third time he now has to play differently than Midnight and Completely Vanilla, and he's having a hard time finding an approach. Chaco
I'd also like your view on this.
oh now I get what you're asking, at the time my thought was essentially chaco will either answer this in a way that alleviates my gut read and I'll go back to HBC pressuring or he wont and I'll keep pressuring the chaco slot to try to get a better read, and I wanted to signal to chaco that there were real stakes to his answer to apply immediate early pressure which would hopefully make it harder for him to fake a genuine response
imo there's a 0% chance that scum!fonti sticks her neck out for me when I had already voted their slot and I was by no means impervious to attack. I somehow doubt scum!fonti has any real interest in pocketing me vs. other slots so fonti's willingness to offer a town read on me and suggest pressure should go elsewhere seems like a genuine effort to sort me and prevent TvTs
This looks S-S. Please explain what your thought process was at this point in time.
Laser
Laser#459 said:
Your vote is based on someone not caring about a three (four?) year old game reference in RVS?
I'm not sure about Xivii, but I'm getting the same feeling about you that I had in SS and I regretted not pursuing it more aggressively. Vote: Synchronicity
No, my vote was based on the selective caring about some game references, and not caring about others, and the context. Kary only cared about the games references that he could lead into a discussion about the difficulty of reading Xivii and how he should keep an eye on him.
Besides this post being very hard to understand from formatting, I’m starting to see some parallels here. Subtle misspelled words, wording jumbled, etc. Could be indicative of phone usage or what I think is more likely is that they are struggling to acclimate and understand this game.
Can you explain how misspellings indicate having a hard time acclimating to the game? If you recall, you were quite guilty of this as well in Midnight.
Chaco I'm curious if you see the parallel here with Midnight. You said before that Frozen isn't playing in the pocket buddy-buddy style, but it looks like that's what he's doing to me here.
Chaco#436 said:
Yeah I didn’t address your slot directly but left it open ended @ X players because Xivii could’ve read that tag when it would be directed at Bessie. But since you’re providing the meta examples here which is exactly what I wanted, to pile you say that Wam is particularly advanced player or more prone to doing irrational things and illogical? And how do you view their play here as far as the parroting and stuff goes?
I promised you a reply to this. Wam is an advanced player. Irrational or illogical based on what? I don’t know how to respond to the parroting because I’m not sure I see what you're talking about. I think one can be influenced by others without necessarily consciously copying them.
Vote: Synchronicity
The more i think about it i feel like your play is meant to leave a big impression without actually doing anything. quibbling with frozen over RVS stuff ten pages later is not very decisive from you and your vote is wasted and meaningless on me. Do something.
How is it wasted and meaningless? Note that until this post, you still had not moved from your RVS vote.
Kary#445 said:
Why should I care about one RVS vote to the same degree that I care about you constantly careening and gallivanting your way through games? Consider yourself mafially profiled.
It's blatantly obvious why. You can read a player better when you know that player, and you can understand inconsistencies in play better when you can assign them to different heads. I dunno how Zen convinced you that being a cryptic, recalcitrant bugbear was a good strategy this game but I hope you snap out of it immediately.
Ok, you didn't care about Sabrar's old game reference as to why he voted for Boomfrog, you just followed the vote for RVS and left it there. Why did you care about the other old game references? It appears it was a reason to open a discussion of the difficulty of reading Xivii, and putting that doubt out front on Page 1.
And being a cryptic, recalcitrant bugbear, or a barking dog, sometimes produces interesting and telling reactions. Why does it anger you so much?
While I agree with you entirely, I can’t assign him the way I would assign myself. You’re correct though that it shouldn’t be a plus and the only reason that it is because it coincides with the decision I had already reached. Unfortunately that’s the imperfect part of having to read every quote as you go through and pick them out.Before even commentating on them I had already reached a decision is what I we as likely.
As far as being honest self, normally I would agree. Frozen has quite a bit of stigma that follows him, so there might be some pressure to be correct, and if I’ve read it correctly he hasn’t been town in quite some time.
I don't buy that Kary liked this post because he thought it was funny I was discussing something from early in the game. If that were the case he would have liked one of my prior posts in this conversation.
I want to hear why you chose to vote Mala out of the gate.
I think you are playing up your relative inexperience and your difficulties adjusting to the new forum, so that people write you off as trying your best, and don't look twice at your content. Or are you saying that one player being more suspicious of you would completely rule out that strategy?
And I don't know where you got the idea that I thought you were good at acting. But some roles are harder to portray than others, in case that wasn't obvious.
Meta thing was for the RVs thing. Also I have seen it used as a distancing tactic un thenpat by leaving the vote on a buddy through day 1. By not committing you leave yourself options.
#HBC | Kary Ah I thought you meant potato town. But regardless I just don’t see Wam having scumbuddies and allowing him to potate it up in here. Look at his response to my analysis of him and he says I’m setting him up for a mislynch. I just can’t see him as scum with that, but you’re right, I may be giving him way to much benefit of the doubt. But I’m pretty firm in my stance of him being potato town at the moment. I could be grossly wrong, but I just can’t see any mates allowing that. Especially with this playerlist, to much depth to not be coaching along the way.
