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Things I Like - The Mafia Game - Game Over

Chaco

Never Logs In
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May 21, 2008
Messages
12,136
Location
NC
Some questions/responses for...

Chaco
Can you explain how misspellings indicate having a hard time acclimating to the game? If you recall, you were quite guilty of this as well in Midnight.

Chaco I'm curious if you see the parallel here with Midnight. You said before that Frozen isn't playing in the pocket buddy-buddy style, but it looks like that's what he's doing to me here.


I promised you a reply to this. Wam is an advanced player. Irrational or illogical based on what? I don’t know how to respond to the parroting because I’m not sure I see what you're talking about. I think one can be influenced by others without necessarily consciously copying them.
Okay now that I have that meta don’t care to say this. I’ve been wondering if they were lacking in intelligence. That’s why I’ve been beating around the bush. I was asking if the spelling errors and such were more than phone typos and an actual struggle. Not that I necessarily think that someone who struggles would play forum mafia for that long, but I’ve seen them trickle in before. So that’s my whole deal with that portion. I was trying to sift through dumb or scum without being blatant and rude.

I don’t see the parallel really. I see actual progressions in Frozens reads and a few slip ups here and there that I wouldn’t attribute to him as scum. Like calling me out on a certain type of defense and then using it a few paragraphs down.His progression on Gorf is hard to follow and he claims it’s easy to,I feel that comes from town here. What other parallels are you speaking of though? Cause I find his style here different than both. The only thing I see as troubling is him trying to buddy Laser. Which laser having been scum with him before, he may be trying to get on the good side of that. Which I haven’t thought about til now.

Look at early Wam, he doesn’t out out any ideas of his own. He copies reads list and takes people’s cases and runs with it, if you comb over him I think you’ll see that he’s essentially been an echo in his posting.
 

Synchronicity

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
213
Location
Xivii/bessie
And how would you know that?
I see 3 options below kn order of descending likelihood.

1. It was in some of the pre game stuff and I missed it.
2. Sabrar has some power role he is hunting at.
3. Sabrar is scum who has made a truly stupid mistake.
There's an obvious 0th option that you're missing.
Ebwop 2 was meant to be hinting

And feel free to enlighten me.
w.PNG


FoS Wam
 

somitomi

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 1, 2020
Messages
210
Technicolor town-scum gradient:
Sabrar
Fontisian
DarkHorse
BoomFrog

Synchronicity
Malakandra
Pythag
Kary

LaserGuy
FrozenFlame

wam
Chaco

__________________
I read back to clear my head of the OMGUS, but I just still don't like Chaco's initial reaction to the LaserGuy case. Later Chaco claimed he was trying to work out Laser's motivation, but I still don't see that. Most of Chaco's responses indicate that he thinks LaserGuy is scum.
So I get criticized for putting out the earliest reads in the game? Criticized for keeping up with excessive content and when I town it down I’m scummy for it? Like this truthfully doesn’t even make any sense. There’s nothing telling about your case here at all other than you’re trying to force a reason to push me. It honestly makes me think of endgame midnight when you said I tried to make stuff stick to you but never could. This is even weaker. See this is why I was even afraid to tone it down cause I knew someone would try and attack it as scummy. Look at the paper trail and you’ll see that I said this even in a discussion with you. Maybe that’s how you thought of it though?
Never says LaserGuy is scum, but states LG is "trying to force a reason to push me" with certainty, which only makes sense for scum to do.
That’s because the whole case is in bad faith. I’m not sure whether to scum read him over it or not. I’m seemingly more interested in Wam’s blind follow of everyone’s reads, and the acceptance of this case when it has absolutely no bearing. The only difference in my play here, and that is I stated prior, is I was gonna sit back and evaluate more instead of interjecting into everything. I refrained from DH v Gorf, Sabrar v FF, etc. Skewed meta cases are bad.
Waffling over scumreading LG even though the case coming from misguided town would not be bad faith at all.
The immediate backpedaling from Laser is concerning. My guess is he was expecting me to blow up and make myself appear more scummy? Idk. It’s not enough to go off of to sort him one way or the other, I definitely need to see more. It would also seem to me that he thinks I would be an easier target to ML than some of the other players and gain favor and cling to “well he was playing differently” as a write off as such. Once again, not enough info to sort him though.

You don’t make a case trying to exploit something early D1 with no backing if you don’t have an agenda, furthermore with no follow up. Not a single scum tell highlighted, completely and totally cold meta. If it was for pressure I would imagine it presented differently. Either he’s digging for anything and everything, or he’s trying to force a ML. Like I said though, the parrot backing of Wam not being addressed by him is very concerning. Not sure that fits town Laser, I expect a little more depth than that. It very similarly reminds me of ScumLaser in Midnight trying to make stuff stick, although a great difference in play style here. More active and responsive as opposed to more lurking and wall based play there. Scum play shift or misguided town.
Wants to see more because this is not enough to sort LaserGuy, but then most of the second paragraph is very clearly coming from a LaserGuy=scum mindset. Additionally I didn't find any evidence of Laser backpedaling.
This is the one post where Chaco actually refutes LaserGuy's points by bringing up examples of his game relevant posts.
So putting out a townread on Frozen and Mala, as well as saying you were nailing Mala’s entrance is fluff? Nailing what BoomFrog was doing might be fluff to you but it’s not, it supports the claim I can read BoomFrog. Interjecting that I don’t see defensiveness out of Gorf is fluff?
I said before, that pretty much everyone involved in this case is suss, because the case itself is weak and yet wam and (to a lesser extent) FrozenFlame hopped on the wagon immediately without criticism. I'm also not pleased with Chaco's responses to my other inquiries regarding the point system or why Wam's tendency to misspell words is relevant to sorting him. Seeing that this is my most solid read at the moment
Vote: Chaco
 

Wam

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
698
So what’s your reasoning for voting me? Because I’ve yet to really see anything other than superficial claims of “I would do that as scum” and just playing follow the leader.

Do you typically follow lasers reads a lot? Or put stock into what he says in game? I’ve noticed you mention Fonti’s stance on him above, but seemingly ignore other X players. Just curious as to why you’re more focused on Laser
Not that I can remember it just clicked for me. Sorry cant really explain more.
I think you are playing up your relative inexperience and your difficulties adjusting to the new forum, so that people write you off as trying your best, and don't look twice at your content. Or are you saying that one player being more suspicious of you would completely rule out that strategy?

And I don't know where you got the idea that I thought you were good at acting. But some roles are harder to portray than others, in case that wasn't obvious.



I felt like you only cared about the votes on Boom, am I just mistaken then?
You are it was all the rvs votes howevre the ones on boom seemed to stand out as I couldnt remember anyone expressing susipiocn of him.

I think this has run its course. I asked the mod obviously.

PoE says scum-team is {Kary, FrozenFlame, wam}. Good game, go next.
I just assumed (wrongly) thatbitnwould be no comment.

And on the spelling typos question I spend a lot of my work life writing/reviewing technical documents which have to be right and I cba to do that in my relax time as well. Added to that on this forum on my phone when I backspace it closes the keyboard i just dont bother to edit.
 

#HBC | Kary

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Scary Kary Supreme
If I was served this sandwich I would tweet a photo with my complaint because I specifically stated I have an allergy to bull**** and yet you served me this.

Here Kary indicates that he had both Frozen and Chaco as town reads, but had some reservations based on the quoted posts. This was his reasoning regarding the Chaco post:
Already getting ahead of yourself. Frozen and Chaco were in the same pile because they both seemed to be moving the game forward, doing things, being pro-town, but I hadn't seen anything that confidently put them into the town pile. They were mechanically townie but didn't feel town.

It's based on an obvious misunderstanding of the context. Chaco was not going back on a Boom town read, he was giving in to everyone saying that Boom wasn't as easy to read as he thought. It had nothing to do with his read, which had not yet given at the time of this post.
The reason I pinged that post was because Chaco's reaction to being challenged about his read his ability to read Boom was to defer and laugh. He was exactly as you say, giving in. That felt like scum quickly giving up on an idea that wasn't popular.
I thought Chaco was townreading Boom because he was treating Boom like he was town, or talking to him in a ways that implied he was town. To me the epitome of this comes in #134 where Chaco seems to be more justifying Boom's "correct" read on him than having any doubts about Boom's intentions.

Chaco is all the way down in the scum pile and Frozen is all the way up in the town pile. And you know what? FROZEN HADN'T EVEN POSTED IN BETWEEN THESE POSTS. So why is Frozen all the way up as his third strongest town read and Chaco as a scum read when:
I first expressed the ping in #125, then I give my reads in #256. Frozen posted MANY times in between then. I count FOURTEEN TIMES.
It's true that I didn't wait for frozen to respond between when I explain the ping in #227 and my reads in #256, but I wanted to just get my reads out there and sign off for the day, and I have already explained to Dark Horse in #504 that when I was going deep on Frozen I felt I had gone too deep.

1) The point he made on Frozen had way more merit
2) Chaco completely dismantled the point on him
3) Chaco and Frozen were originally in the same pile and the only reason Kary was having reservations was because of the quoted posts? Chaco dismantling the point should have returned Chaco to the townie pile, and even if we assume that Kary wasn't convinced, Chaco would still be in the same pile as FrozenFlame who had not even been on to address Kary's point yet.
1. False. Chaco's point suggested a scared mindset. Frozen's point just felt different, out of place. Town can have second thoughts on things. Yeah, town can bow to pressure as well, but I saw no reason for Chaco to be having doubts.
2. Already explained above, that the point was about Chaco's mindset, and I said at the time that the point still stands.
3. I picked out the one thing that pinged me as most scummy about each slot, I had plenty of other thoughts as well.
Chaco didn't dismantle the point (see 2) in fact him saying he was null on Boom made me more suspicious.
They both posted SEVERAL TIMES between my initial ping in #125 and my reads list, including Chaco going into a bunker mentality in response to Laser which further pinged me as an overreaction.

This is the work of someone who as a pre-planned lynch agenda, not someone who trying to solve.
The reason you can tell this is just nonsense, is because your WHOLE SANDWICH relies on the fact that I was honest about having frozen and Chaco in the same spot in #125. If I had a pre-planned agenda, I would just say I had the opposite reads on Chaco/Frozen and you would have nothing to say here.

Some Cheese - Onto another Point:
This is such a backward and forced conclusion. Chaco voting somi despite ending with an overall town score is incredibly townie as it shows that he wasn't just manipulating his point system to fit his read. This is such a superficial scum read.
Chaco started doing the points system for no reason. The fact that you admit he could have manipulated the points, but think that he didn't, proves my argument. He can just as easily be manipulating the points to go away from his conclusion, so that he comes across as more townie; having doubts, etc.

It's also very telling that you think me changing my read over time about Chaco/Frozen is inherently scummy, but when Chaco says one thing but draws a different conclusion, you think that makes him super townie.

Lettuce and Tomatoes - A few little other things:
There are a couple of times that I've picked up on Kary not really digging into context, such as his point on Chaco going back on his Boom read. This was another one. Sabrar had already gone over this.
You will openly admit to being behind and struggling to keep up, but if I miss a piece of context then I'm scummy?

You were asked about it because it was the point you brought up. This backtracking is wack.
It isn't backtracking, I'm simply explaining the very basic idea that when I criticize frozen and shortly after townread him it's because the criticism is an elaboration of an EARLIER thought I had.

Another things is Kary has been playing up his omg Synchro is so crazy let's keep an eye on them guys all game. This is what my left brain was communicating here as an example. Kary didn't actually care about my reference to an outside game, otherwise he would have asked Sabrar the same thing. Additionally, why did Kary care about our answer enough for this to matter? It was an RVS question from Laser about how we were going to approach the game that wasn't going to go anywhere. You can also see his playing up the SnYcRo sO cRyPtic in his discussion with Pythag regarding our slot.
You are a liability at best and this case proves it. I absolutely do care to know how you're going to play this game but I only have so much patience to ask an itinerant nonsense-peddler what kind of schedule they keep before I throw my hands up and pursue more useful avenues. I ALREADY addressed the point that you just linked, and the fact that you can call me scummy for demanding basic accountability from a notorious problem player is the epitome of why you can't be trusted.

Some Toasted Bread - Wrapping it Up:

This chain of post is low-key defensive from Kary. It's like he was preemptively defending against Sabrar's vote by suggesting that his (Kary's) actions were RVS and so shouldn't be scrutinized. He had a similar reaction after I voted him asking if we were caught up. The right brain can sense the unease behind it, low-key trying to play it cool like he wasn't bothered and trying to solve.
I don't know how you can get this so backwards. I was openly inviting Sabrar to crticize me during RVS, that's the reason I engaged them in the first place. But even after I taunted them saying I would ignore their vote they didn't feel like following up with a reason, which I think is pretty telling about their approach this game.

Your approach this game has been to be consistently behind and broadly irrelevant. I'm glad you're finally doing something here but the end result of this is that you wasted a considerable amount of my time. I hope you're happy.
 

Wam

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
698
Why then include all those other options with the comment that they are in decreasing order of likelihood?
Because I was trying to throw out options for sync why does this matter?
 

Sabrar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Messages
931
Because you haven't actually answered my question, whether me making a blunder had a higher chance than the mod giving an answer.
 

Wam

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
698
Because you haven't actually answered my question, whether me making a blunder had a higher chance than the mod giving an answer.
I had assumed the mod wouldn't answer so yes with the incorrect assumption in my mind it did. At something like 99% I missed something 0.99% you were hinting at something in your role pm and 0.01% you had done something stupid. 0% the mod had answered.

Side note I will not be around at deadline.
 

giraffelasergun

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 20, 2010
Messages
1,173
Vote Count 1.9

Chaco (4): Kary, LaserGuy, Wam, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (3): BoomFrog, Sabrar, Malakandra
Wam (2): FrozenFlame, Malakandra
Fontisian (1): Dark Horse
Kary (1): Synchronicity
Somitomi(1): Chaco
Laserguy(1): Fontisian

Not Voting (2): Pythag, Somitomi

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to reach majority.
Day Ends at 5 PM CST on Friday the 11th, approximately 7 hrs from this post! Live Countdown to EOD1
 
Last edited:

#HBC | Dark Horse

Mach-Hommy x Murakami
Joined
Jun 12, 2010
Messages
3,739
Vote: Frozenflame

Was hoping to hear more from him but idk if I’ll be around for EoD so we move.

Willing to take fonti out of my lynch pool for now so currently I’d go frozen, Somi, Wam in that order

Kary is a slot that I’m conflicted on. I had her as a scum lean for a while but I thought her answers to my questions were better than I was expecting, they struck me as more genuine and less of a guarded response. I definitely need to sort this slot at some point but I feel more confident in my other reads currently so I’d prefer to look elsewhere for the play today

I really dislike somi’s scum pool. I don’t see the Laser vs Chaco SvS approach it feels like a set up. Plus I feel like somi mentioned reads like this a while ago and it feels weird that there hasn’t been much progression or development on these reads since them. Briefly bringing up scum reads on wam and frozen could be distancing too

Also one thing that’s holding me back from putting wam higher is that he seems pretty unfazed by all of the pressure mounting on him. From my experience the type of scum that get by sheeping other people’s reads are also usually the type to get super frozen when the pressure turns to them and I don’t really see that from him
 

Chaco

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I don’t even know how it could be suggested that Laser v Me is SvS. There’s like literally no way at all.

Nice OMGUS somitomi somitomi , guarantee you wouldn’t do that if you didn’t have traction cause you feel comfortable to push for me rn.. Question: Are you read up on the game as of right now? Why I asked about Wam is spelled out. I even answered it to Sync. It’s hard to decipher because I was trying to make it a thing that wasn’t broadcasted. Let’s completely dumb it down for you. I was asking if Wam was dumb, and the errors and such weren’t mistakes by genuine shortcomings. So everyone is suss on my wagon, yet you still vote me? Your whole basis is illogical. You put everyone who jumped in my wagon as low and scumreads as well, like what kind of excuse for scumhunting is that.
 

Chaco

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#HBC | Kary #HBC | Kary Can you grade a school paper on what’s required and still know outside of how they did that they could be doing more or didn’t try? Theres your answer to the point system. Stop manipulating it to fit your agenda. Baseline versus my thoughts. If I wanted it to be skewed to direct a full on scum read I puke very well do that. Like you just keep attacking nonsensical points and get mad passive aggressive the second someone brings anything against you. I don’t see any genuine let’s be town mindset here, I see an independent one. Not implying an indie role, but something about you has been off all game.
 

Malakandra

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2020
Messages
1,264
I don’t even know how it could be suggested that Laser v Me is SvS. There’s like literally no way at all.
Has Somi said they saw it as SvS recently? The post I read and responded mildmeld to i took as them saying that there was no clear right side at that point in time which I felt the same? But I agree it definitely doesn't look like SvS now. If anything I'm leaning more TvT since it looks like Chaco is becoming the counterwagon to FF, which kinda messes with my earlier thoughts about them being scum together.
 

Malakandra

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Apr 19, 2020
Messages
1,264
I'll do my best, but most of what I've already written is in that format, my apologies.
Who's ready for a tasty sandwich?
Before I look at the actual case post, I have to say Synchronicity gets the most style points.

Ok, both halves of my brain have finally caught up
Synchronicity claiming mason???????????? 😱


Has FF really not responded by chainsawing me yet? Or is my reception in this tunnel just so bad that I haven't seen it?
 

Malakandra

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2020
Messages
1,264
Synchronicity Synchronicity

That case really isn't the best work I've ever seen, kinda disappointing ngl. You seem to have some inaccuracies, which strikes me as odd for what I expected of this slot. I'm not sure if its just you two struggling to come together, or if its scum motivated at this point. But yes I also count the posts in between when Kary said Chaco and Frozen were in the same boat, and when he made the read list. There's definitely a good amount of Frozen posts that could be seen as alignment content in between those. I agree that them being on nearly opposite sides of the spectrum after that is a bit odd.

Most of the topping stuff is ok, but its also not enough to sell me on the case as a whole. I'd like to hear your explanation for why you had the number of Frozen posts completely wrong, its very confusing to me because I don't think getting things wrong in a case is something you would do as any alignment.
 

LaserGuy

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
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In Quarantine
Laserguy, what are your thoughts on FF as of now?
I have him at Town lean. He seems much more loose and relaxed this game. I've had a few Town pings in him that I've mentioned earlier. I'll admit though this isn't a slot that I've done a really in depth read on. Can you give me a two minute synopsis of your case on him?
 

Malakandra

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 19, 2020
Messages
1,264
Can you give me a two minute synopsis of your case on him?
NGL i don't really have good meta on Frozen. I've only played with him as scum once and it was for a day. So can't give you that parallel stuff. But basically, nothing tracks. I don't think their arguments or pushes make sense, and I know you agree with that since I've seen you say such things so that why I find your progression weird in that regard.

I feel like Frozen is just making pushes to find something that sticks, like only a few of their actual reasoning behind their pushes have made sense to me so far. There so much chainsaw I feel like I'm playing dead by daylight. I also don't like that the only arguments I've seen for them is that they're either playing differently (bad because if theye played scum as much as people seem to say they have they should def be capable of changing play-style or they'd be busted everygame) or that they believe their stuff/ feel honest (A little better, and I can see some of that, but I also think thats fakeable.)
 

Malakandra

Smash Lord
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Apr 19, 2020
Messages
1,264
Specific points are the pre-flip association early on that made no sense, back tracking around the Somi slot, using your original case on Chaco as an excuse to lay a vote with an easy out, and general bad arguments.
 

#HBC | Kary

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#HBC | Kary #HBC | Kary
Try applying "If I had a pre-planned agenda, I would just say I had the opposite reads on Chaco/Frozen and you would have nothing to say here," to Chaco's somi read. Do you see it?
You are the microsoft clippy of mafia players and you are making this game miserable for me. please cease and desist with the patronizing the tone and pretending to be helpful. taking something I said out of context to re-hash your earlier point that you think chaco's somi case feels legit achieves nothing here except antagonizing me. I have already told you why I think scum Chaco would do what he did.
 

Chaco

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I’m gonna be able to check in, but I’ll be working and driving home until like 5:30ish EST. So don’t expect a lot from me til very close to deadline cause I’m reassembling a Hyundai Accent rn
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
You are the microsoft clippy of mafia players and you are making this game miserable for me. please cease and desist with the patronizing the tone and pretending to be helpful. taking something I said out of context to re-hash your earlier point that you think chaco's somi case feels legit achieves nothing here except antagonizing me. I have already told you why I think scum Chaco would do what he did.
Aight, jeez.
 

#HBC | Kary

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#HBC | Kary #HBC | Kary Can you grade a school paper on what’s required and still know outside of how they did that they could be doing more or didn’t try? Theres your answer to the point system. Stop manipulating it to fit your agenda. Baseline versus my thoughts. If I wanted it to be skewed to direct a full on scum read I puke very well do that. Like you just keep attacking nonsensical points and get mad passive aggressive the second someone brings anything against you. I don’t see any genuine let’s be town mindset here, I see an independent one. Not implying an indie role, but something about you has been off all game.
I attacked your school report because I felt like you were forcing content to try and dig yourself out of a hole, rather than actually look for leads or push things that you think are mafia. And I know full well that you feigning a conflicted view is a much more complicated explanation, and therefore less likely by occam's razor, than just being something that you felt you wanted to do. But people keep challenging my view (without even making this simple argument) so I keep reiterating it.

I have always been passive aggressive, it just happens to be more pronounced this game due to frustrations including circumstances outside of the game and my control. If you must know, I was told I need to find new accommodation between when I signed up for this game and when it started, and having that hanging over me has stressed me out a lot. I apologize to you and anyone else who I have pissed off but I am just trying my best.

The fact that I seem independent should make it obvious that if I'm town, but I can understand if you have doubts based on my current performance. Looking at the waggons right now I feel that frozen is a terrible idea, and yours probably has the same result. The fact that you didn't cite anything specific you liked about Wam but still stuck hard to that read makes me confident that you really believe it, and though I have an essay of things I don't like about your play the bottom line is that you have pinged me as townie on more than one occasion and if I'm killing you at this point it's more to relieve my doubts more than I think you are scummy.

I would absolutely be voting for fonti here if it didn't make frozen more likely to be eliminated.
 

Sabrar

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 13, 2020
Messages
931
I think Chaco's frustration with wam is genuine and tonally it is very townie. I understand people's grievances with him and I was unsure for a long time but recent developments tell me yeeting Chaco would be a bad idea.
 

#HBC | Kary

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#HBC | Dark Horse #HBC | Dark Horse why is frozen a better vote than fonti here?
Vote Count 1.9

Chaco (4): Kary, LaserGuy, Wam, Somitomi
FrozenFlame (3): BoomFrog, Sabrar, Malakandra
Wam (2): FrozenFlame, Malakandra
Fontisian (1): Dark Horse
Kary (1): Synchronicity
Somitomi(1): Chaco
Laserguy(1): Fontisian

Not Voting (2): Pythag, Somitomi

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to reach majority.
Day Ends at 5 PM CST on Friday the 11th, approximately 7 hrs from this post! Live Countdown to EOD1
Malakandra is in here twice
 

fontisian

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 3, 2020
Messages
2,012
I think I'm going to end up on Wam for lack of better options. I don't have a real scumread on him, beyond a feeling that most of his interogation of me was more about figuring whether I intended to continue Gorf's case against him than an actual attempt to figure out my aligned. And, as rude as it is to say, I'd rather yeet town!Wam than town!Frozen or Chavo.

Idk, this game feels really bad, just a ton of town v town fighting and people being unwilling to listen to each other. Frozen and Kary with Chaco, Dark Horse and Sabrar with Frozen, and now Syn with Kary. Everyone's direction is split, and I don't particularly agree with any of them.

Syn could have a point about me reading Frozen off of him being so different and (as Laser said) looser than Midnight Ops, so I'm look into that before I decide if I'm commiting to defending him. I'm not willing to compromise on Chaco, and will be voting to defend him if I have to.
 
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