There Better not be brawl airdodges....

[#HBC | Ryker]

If you hit someone while in hitstun, what really happens? You get the chance to do it again....

WHAT A GOOD GAME!!!!!

 

[Vkrm]

Would require specific Di. Not quite the most useful set up but I'll acknowledge i was wrong about what I said.. I swear I seen vinnie do this same junk countless times. This is a problem with IC's not with melee.

 

[Delta-cod]

wut.

Are you implying Melee...doesn't have inescapable combos? At all? Like, actually?

Also, your argument is bad. If you score a hit in neutral at Melee what really happens? You get the chance to hit them again!

WHAT A GOOD GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!111one

 

[Vkrm]

Yep, you get the chance to hit them again. Not the the chance to read them again with read that aren't real reads. Melee isn't a good game.

ITS A GREAT GAME!!!!!!!!!

THATS WHY BRAWL IS DYING!!!!!!

PEOPLE DECIDE THEY'D RATHER BE BAD AT MARVEL THAN CONTINUE THEIR MASOCHISM!!!!!!!!

 

[Baskerville]

Its amazing how quick Vkrm turns gameplay related threads into petty arguments. Keep the bias to yourself and actually try to have a civilized debate instead of insulting top players who know what they're talking about.

 

[Delta-cod]

But since you seemed to say that Melee has no inescapable combos, you actually do have to read them again. After all, DI is superior in Melee, so Melee comes in and saves you from getting hit again because DI exists.

 

[Vkrm]

You actually have to do the DI. Comboing me would be so much easier then comboing mango.

 

[Delta-cod]

You actually have to AD too.

Question to others: What do you all think about dodges being shorter lasting in general?

 

[Jockmaster]

I like the idea of a Melee AD in all regards, except you would not be helpless anymore after a certain frame window (25 maybe). I think being able to AD while recovering offstage would help with recovery variety and this system would essentially give you one MAX usable AD while recovering.

 

[Delta-cod]

I think the helpless window would probably need to be adjusted based on the gravity of the game. 25 frames in Melee gravity probably causes you to fall a lot farther than 25 frames in Brawl gravity.

 

[Vkrm]

Having to DI your way out of combo sets up for a richer game with more complexity and depth.

 

[Delta-cod]

Having more options to get out of combos sets up for a richer game with more complexity and depth.

 

[Vkrm]

Agreed. Its cool that you be like, Ive had enough of being comboed for now, I'll press l for my get out of jail free card. If he punishes, what ev's I'll get many more chances to reestablish stage control. His need to mix it won't stand up to how stubborn I get to be in a game that has such abysmal follow-ups.

All the brawl mechanics actually stiffle innovation and skew honest skill based pvp. That's why we SHOULD be asking for melee 2.0.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

You actually have to AD too.

Question to others: What do you all think about dodges being shorter lasting in general?

The only defensive mechanic I would change is the removal of spot dodge as an option completely and totally.

 

[Delta-cod]

What is English.

Also, still thinking that AD is a get out of jail free card means you're just being stubborn and haven't actually been paying attention to anything I've said about how Brawl is played. Airdodging it always the most obvious option which is why it is punished so frequently. It's on the defensive player to mix it up in order to not get punished for trying the same thing again and again.

But obviously this is all lost on you because you don't want to see that Brawl has a different yet valid system in place. Which is sad, because you really turn away people (like me) who are open minded towards Melee's mechanics and gameplay with your refusal to stop arguing despite not having anything left to say.

This is why Melee doesn't get too many newbies and is also why you guys seem to be monstering Smash 4 so hard. You need a Melee 2.0 in order to keep your gameplay alive.

Edit @ Ryker: What would counter grab, then? Also, Yoshi would need to have his shield revamped in that case.

 

[Vkrm]

Where have you been? Melee's metagame has been steadily developing since brawls release. Comparatively, mk was winning tourneys in 2008, and has been since, and will be until brawl dies. Shouldnt take that long. Ever since the evo poll in there have been a bunch of new new players from the FGC checking melee out. Melee is growing.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Edit @ Ryker: What would counter grab, then? Also, Yoshi would need to have his shield revamped in that case.

Not shielding would counter grab nicely, but so does any decent OoS option. That being said, not every character has decent OoS options. For them, rolling away from a grab is still very much a thing.

Yoshi needs a shield rework regardless. His shield isn't inoperable in Brawl, but I can hardly say seeing it be so abysmal in Smash 4 as something to put on my wishlist.

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

Having more options to get out of combos sets up for a richer game with more complexity and depth.

Having too many like in Brawl does not, especially when none of them work against a handful of characters.

Anyway, I agree with the Brawl apologetics. Not everything VKRM has said works against Brawl airdodge in general. Some of those flaws in Brawl he's pointing out work can actually be attributed to other ******** **** the game has.

Hitstun cancel the way it is presented in Brawl may be the most ******** thing on earth. It's an issue when the only combos that work above 40% are jab stun/reset and grab release combos. Brawl is like the fighting game's cousin with down syndrome.

I imagine there could be some cool applications to hitstun cancel in Smash 4. First of all, imagine Smash 4 as a Melee gameplay based game where the regular air dodge is Melee's. However, imagine that for any hypothetical chain grab, the hitstun of the 3rd throw becomes cancellable. Some special moves could also be hitstun cancelable at all times. And 100% of Metaknight's moves should be hitstun cancelable. The air dodge for the hitstun cancel could be just like Brawl's. The ratio of moves with cancelable hitstun would have to be at most 1/10 though, otherwise we risk having another game with down syndrome.

I think that's a great idea.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Where have you been? Melee's metagame has been steadily developing since brawls release. Comparatively, mk was winning tourneys in 2008, and has been since, and will be until brawl dies. Shouldnt take that long. Ever since the evo poll in there have been a bunch of new new players from the FGC checking melee out. Melee is growing.

Can you point me to a top level melee player that started playing post 2008?

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

Can you point me to a top level melee player that started playing post 2008?

Uhh.. I would not say that there's top melee players that started playing post-2008 because I don't know if any of them had the game as a kid, but since 2008 there's been dozens of people call "new-school melee" players in the competitive scene.

I think (but I'm not sure) of Tai from AZ, Dr. Peepee, Smoke2jointz, Javi from Mexico that we saw for the first time in 2012 APEX and made us all cry with his beautiful playstyle and took 3rd place, and a bunch of others you see in streams nowadays. There's also been like 17 year old kids like barely getting into it and getting really good.

 

[BSP]

Why not just remove the ability to cancel hitstun, and just keep everything else the same?

 

[Vkrm]

Pew pew u I think. Not sure precisely when he started but he has one if the greatest marth's around right now.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Uhh.. I would not say that there's top melee players that started playing post-2008 because I don't know if any of them had the game as a kid, but since 2008 there's been dozens of people call "new-school melee" players in the competitive scene.

I think (but I'm not sure) of Tai from AZ, Dr. Peepee, Smoke2jointz, Javi from Mexico that we saw for the first time in 2012 APEX and made us all cry with his beautiful playstyle and took 3rd place, and a bunch of others you see in streams nowadays. There's also been like 17 year old kids like barely getting into it and getting really good.

I'm not saying players who weren't good in 2008. I'm saying people who have gotten to the point they are relevant at a high level in the past FOUR YEARS. That's probably the biggest problem with melee, the inaccessability.

 

[Wobbly Headed Bob]

I'm not saying players who weren't good in 2008. I'm saying people who have gotten to the point they are relevant at a high level in the past FOUR YEARS. That's probably the biggest problem with melee, the inaccessability.

That's like asking for new players that had not played SF2 ever before and are now top players when most of the people interested in picking up the game competitively have played it before. lol

And you think Melee is inaccessible? Have you tried any other fighting games like SF4? Who do you use?

 

[Vkrm]

Yep, results should be more random. They should introduce a feature where your character slips and falls independent of your inputs. The players who have been at it longer, should be better. Whats the problem with that? I honestly prefer it that way.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Brawl results are so random, good point.

 

[-LzR-]

I think there is a good reason why there aren't many actual Melee players posting here. They would die out of shame.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Its amazing how quick Vkrm turns gameplay related threads into petty arguments. Keep the bias to yourself and actually try to have a civilized debate instead of insulting top players who know what they're talking about.

You haven't spoken any truer words Falchion.

And sure, I should also be here to waste time trying to prove people that they are wrong and they are bad for even considering buying Brawl and giving it a competitive scene. And why we should demand Melee 2.0 when fans actually got their ***** up and went to create one themselves called a freaking Project M.

But I'll just leave it here now and see where this argument discussions's go at. On the other hand I should go propose to MS Guy to discuss about the rule about forbidding people to make anymore comparing about Melee to Brawl or vice versa due how much meaningless debates and heated arguments it creates.

 

[Jockmaster]

I think there is a good reason why there aren't many actual Melee players posting here. They would die out of shame.

You are like the king of the strawman argument, I literally can't think of a post where you haven't resorted to "Melee players are incapable of desiring anything besides a clone of Melee".

I hate Brawl but made a post about a compromised air dodge system, but of course you ignore it and attempt to use the more militant Melee players as an example of the whole group. To be completely honest, YOU make Brawl people look really ignorant and dumb (I know you said somewhere that you are neutral, but your bias is wayy obvious dawg).

Whoever DID respond to me saying that my method would have to be tailored to the acceleration due to gravity, I agree. Basically, you would be helpless for a window that would make a second air dodge very difficult to use beneficially while recovering, but give your Up B a chance to get you back.

I also think it is VERY important to remove hitstun canceling, Smash simply sucks when you can't combo at all.

 

[Vkrm]

Brawl tourneys are consistent. Mk is usually 3 of top 5.

 

[Pikabunz]

Closing this thread. This pretty much turned into a Melee vs Brawl thread and I'm not surprised with a title like that.