The Wings of Icarus as an Offensive Move

[Salty123]

This is not as much an AT as it is a simple strategy. I got the idea for this when I first figured out wing dashing. The idea here is that you use the wings of icarus to avoid any and all of your opponents moves and use their cool down time to punish. So, basically if you approach your opponent their going to try to run away or more commonly their going to try and hit you first. This is when you hit up-b. If you hit it on the ground you will rocket into the air and are set up for a perfectly spaced down air. If you decide to wingdash you and then get them with any smash.

However there is the unfortunate time here and there where you are forced to approach your opponent from the air. In ths situation their going to try and predict your move and hit you first, out range you, or out prioritize you. So, your opponent is going to space his move so only a certain part of their hit box will connect. Your job is to screw up that spacing. When your opponent jumps to hit you use the wings of icarus to push them out of the way and you into safety. Alternatively, if they stay on the ground and wait for you to fall to them, use the wings of icaru during their moves startup so you stop falling, their attack misses, and you can punish.

Anyways, tell me what you think and i'll tweak this thread accordingly.

 

[swordsaint]

I like the idea of WoI momentum cancelling, however everything else is useless. Pit's like, never have to approach for one, and secondly we always have better options than using WoI/Wingdashing.

 

[Salty123]

such as what?

 

[swordsaint]

Instead of always trying to be fancy with wingdashing, keep it simple and basic. It works for Pit. Saying WoI/Wingdashing can be used as a mindgame is ignorant, any good player won't get thrown off by it.
And if we have time to wingdash, we have time to simply shield/dodge and/or attack either via projectile or melee attack.

 

[goodkid]

Don't worry about how you can master wingdashing, worry about mastering the basics. Can you predict your opponent? Do you know how to observe your opponent to find habits and weak areas in their play? If not, work on that. It is more important, and even I haven't mastered it.

 

[321BOOM]

In the event that you are hit with a KO move like Ike's fsmash you usually recover just before hitting the blast zone. At this point you can use the wing of icarus to stop your momentum and recover. The only drawback to this is that it is incredably easy to be gimped out of. That is where your player skill comes in.

I like the momentum cancel, but shouldn't this be used as a last resort?

What I mean is,
there shouldn't be many cases where you HAVE to use WoI to recover.
Learning to SDI perfectly prevents from an early kill, and with Pit's 3 jumps + glide, it's pretty hard to gimp him.
Using WoI as a first option is just a no-no.

 

[Salty123]

I don't mean you should use it every possible opportunity. I'm just pointing out that pit is very easy to predict and this is a way to mix it up a bit. If your opponent is expecting you to fall normally you can stop yourself with the WoI and sue it's speed boost at the beginning to land an attack.

Also, there comes a point where your basics get really good and you want something else to work on. You should always keep practicing basics though. Does that make sense?

 

[321BOOM]

Pit is outranged by many common characters (such as MK or D3)
If they attack before you do, its bound to leave pit freefalling to his death.

Although WoI does have momentum-cancel,
I prefer using glide and possibly land a glide attack, as its a safer recovery option.

 

[Valuno]

WoI does not momentum cancel.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Valuno is right, and this really doesnt help much, for Pit still has some chars that can outcamp and out-spam Pit (Toon Link is most noted), and this just seems somewhat fancy, which won't help much, for we still need to go over the basics, which many Pits that I have played before have lacked.

 

[321BOOM]

lmao.
I just assumed that Salty's research led to figuring out WoI can momentum cancel.

Oh well :/

 

[Salty123]

when I asked the question: does the WoI cancel pit's momentum in the air? on the ask a question get an answer threak I recieved a yes answer. I appologize if it was incorrect. I simply use the WoI to slow myself and it can be used to keep just out of the blast zone. better to use the WoI than to die.

Also, I would like to point out that many people talk about how they need to work on basics and their should be a thread about it but the only people who have really tried to so have failed at it.

 

[Phaigne]

No, WoI does not cancel momentum, it will end up just killing you.

The only offensive capabilities of WoI is Dive-bombing and stalling in the air to lure an attack, which are both still kind of defensive maneuvers.

 

[Doctor X]

Specials, with a few exceptions, give you a bit of a boost in the direction of your momentum, so you actually would be better off doing nothing. >.>

 

[Zephil]

WOI is not a move to use offensively... is too risky sometimes and always are better options... I preffer to do a good spacing with a dair or fair than trying to wingdash or anything similar

 

[ShermantheTank]

The only offensive capabilities of WoI is Dive-bombing and stalling in the air to lure an attack, which are both still kind of defensive maneuvers.

This is actually a great tactic to use on occasion. Pit's dair has a great range, and using WoI at the height of a jump to dangle just above and to the left/right of most characters will keep you out of their attack range, but allow you to close the gap to attack while they're still vulnerable from a missed attack/dodge.

Also, I would like to point out that many people talk about how they need to work on basics and their should be a thread about it but the only people who have really tried to so have failed at it.

I only remember seeing one 'basics' thread, and it seems like the downfall of that thread was that it really didn't have direct besides "Let's talk about basics!" So maybe we should come up with an idea; like opening a thread to talk about Pit's moves one at a time?

 

[Doctor X]

only remember seeing one 'basics' thread, and it seems like the downfall of that thread was that it really didn't have direct besides "Let's talk about basics!" So maybe we should come up with an idea; like opening a thread to talk about Pit's moves one at a time?

That has already been tried. It didn't work

And I also don't think that Pit, or any character in brawl, is complicated enough to have everyone talking about one move at a time.

 

[Coffee™]

I dunno about anyone else but I'm sick of hearing the word basics..... If you don't know how "to do the basics" by now, you probably just aren't going to be good at this game.

 

[Tikun]

Can any body explain me how does spacing dair is better than spacing fair or bair?
Or even make an guide of how to use it?
I've seen many times masashi using that. And it seems like his oponents got a little scary of that.

Well, i have to say, if you want to look fancy in your game it is completely ok. But this will not make your game competitive as you can be as a camping and spacing pit.
I just use WoI on 3 situations instead of recovering:

- When i use an lagged move, and i know that i will be punished for that, i use UpB without short hop, this seems to confuse my opponent and i can punish him for a laggy dash atack or something.

- Using WoI as a dash dance in melee, oponents that does not have projectiles, need to aproach. I could be using my arrows, but who knows? this can be surely situational.

- Planking wile i uair, bair, arrow, fair, WoI on the edge.

Hope i helped.

 

[ShermantheTank]

Can any body explain me how does spacing dair is better than spacing fair or bair?

In my book, fair and bair are both better than dair if you're in a situation to hit with them. The thing that makes dair good is that it hits everywhere around Pit, excluding directly above him.

Here's an example of using WoI and dair like I mentioned above: I was playing a Marth last night. I ran towards him and jumped, knowing this would provoke him to attack. I hit up-b, causing Pit to pause in the air above and to the right of Marth. Marth's forward smash, which I would have jumped right into without up-B, landed underneath me. As soon as the sword passed Pit I hit dair, causing Pit to launch downward and swing the sword in an arc under him. Marth was to the bottom left of my character, so out of range of a fair but still would've been poked by his bair. However, my dair hit him dead on and sent him flying, doing more damage and putting him in a position to be punished.

Masashi will use dair in way more situations than I do, and I've never seen him do my WoI trick. For example, if you see an opponent approaching you, do a SH dair to stay out of reach of a dash-attack/grab/U-smash to stay out of range and punish them.

Masashi also has incredible timing. I can't tell you how many times I've gotten punished because I'll use a badly timed dair instead of a faster attack. So yea, just practice that attack a lot to learn the range and then try to find those situations that makes it a great attack.

 

[Tikun]

SH dair? Are you sure dude?
I mean .... SH Dair gives you like 10 frams of lag? It is a lot of time.
Carefull with that, all the spaced dairs that i've seen are with a Long Hop.

 

[Phaigne]

I dunno about anyone else but I'm sick of hearing the word basics..... If you don't know how "to do the basics" by now, you probably just aren't going to be good at this game.

Yeah, me too. Learn to play your character. Geez, they are called the "basics" for a reason.

 

[ShermantheTank]

SH dair? Are you sure dude?
I mean .... SH Dair gives you like 10 frams of lag? It is a lot of time.
Carefull with that, all the spaced dairs that i've seen are with a Long Hop.

Using dair on the upswing of a SH will mean that you finish the attack while you're still in the air, therefore you won't have any lag upon landing. If you're trying to hit a ground target with long hopped dair, using it will cause you to fast fall and then you WILL have a ton of lag.

 

[Lezard]

I have been experimentin with this for ages and the best way to approch with Woi as an offensive technique
and this had been shown in one of my video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJZBM76Dlro

 

[321BOOM]

I dunno about anyone else but I'm sick of hearing the word basics..... If you don't know how "to do the basics" by now, you probably just aren't going to be good at this game.

well, idk bout anyone else.
but i say "focus on basics" so people can stop chattering about annoying ATs :<

I have been experimentin with this for ages and the best way to approch with Woi as an offensive technique
and this had been shown in one of my video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJZBM76Dlro

interesting.
was pit's bair range actually extended?
in your vid, it looked like it's hit-range was farther than usual. or maybe its just me.

 

[Lezard]

:<

interesting.
was pit's bair range actually extended?
in your vid, it looked like it's hit-range was farther than usual. or maybe its just me.

Yup, thats right its a bair moving horizantally rather than a regular bair

 

[MysteriousSilver]

WTF qualifies as basics anyways?

I mean, I know how to make my character jump. That's pretty basic. I've heard a lot of people say that but other than "don't bother with arrow looping/wingdashing," I'm not 100% what they mean?

 

[321BOOM]

Yup, thats right its a bair moving horizantally rather than a regular bair

dayumm, I LIKE THAT!

WTF qualifies as basics anyways?

knowing all the aspects of your characters tilt-moves and aerial moves.
knowing what they do, how they are used, and the essentials (spacing, sheildpoking, etc)
and to know how/when to use them for each matchup

 

[ShermantheTank]

I have been experimentin with this for ages and the best way to approch with Woi as an offensive technique
and this had been shown in one of my video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJZBM76Dlro

I notice you hit didn't hit with the primary attack of the bair. Does the timing make it possible to pull that off? And is it effective to approach an enemy while doing this?

 

[Lezard]

I notice you hit didn't hit with the primary attack of the bair. Does the timing make it possible to pull that off? And is it effective to approach an enemy while doing this?

normally i would pace myself by firing arrows at my opponent and as soon as my opponen reach in range i pull out my Woi ant go for the kill LOL but you of to do this with the c stick while holding back
and ones you do this you dont of to worry about timing

there are a few of them in my Dash Dash Go WingDash video



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy1jUsIMHhQ

 

[Salty123]

what i'm trying to do here is difficult to explain. I'll have a video up soon.

ps: the community seems to be split between focusing on the basics and going for the ATs. I too am sick of the basics and want something new to work on. That is why I started developing this technique. Why don't we turn this thread into a basic strategy thread. Where different people share what they think should be done in any given situation. Sound good to everyone?

 

[Salty123]

Here's an example of using WoI and dair like I mentioned above: I was playing a Marth last night. I ran towards him and jumped, knowing this would provoke him to attack. I hit up-b, causing Pit to pause in the air above and to the right of Marth. Marth's forward smash, which I would have jumped right into without up-B, landed underneath me. As soon as the sword passed Pit I hit dair, causing Pit to launch downward and swing the sword in an arc under him. Marth was to the bottom left of my character, so out of range of a fair but still would've been poked by his bair. However, my dair hit him dead on and sent him flying, doing more damage and putting him in a position to be punished.

that's exactly what i'm talking about!!!!!!!!!!!

sorry for the double post my comp messed up

 

[ADN]

Dont worry Salty thats very Usefull really, but only the pits who use that can know it .
i use that everytime and works perfect (aircamping to ground)