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The Wi-fi waiting room stage's legality

betterthanbonds9

Smash Ace
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In eighteenspikes' heart
Just to get this off the bat, I don't care if you dont think homebrew mods like no tripping or this one will ever be used in any prestigious tournament, or even at all. All i care about is the IF involved. So here's the point anybody should be arguing against/for:

If you had access to the wi-fi waiting room stage from the stage selection screen, would it be starter, counter pick, or banned?





Okay, so here's the basics:
  • It's a little longer than FD, not much really
  • There will always be a sandbag on screen
  • It's completly flat
  • The edges are more like battlefield than FD (as in, you can upB up the edge and not get caught)
-Honestly, it's FD with a constant sandbag
--note: The ceiling is close to the same as FD, i tested it, in both fox killed mario at somewhere between 90 and 95 (93 worked the best)
--If you're interested about the side blastzones: From the center zelda dsmash vs mario on waiting room kills at the blastzone at 146%. On FD it's 138%. Significant, somewhat. Gamebreaking, not at all. Me and my friend played the crap out of that stage today and we really just played it like any other match.
--More on the side blastzones: From the ledge Zelda's dsmash kills mario at 97%. On FD, it kills mario at 100%. So really, once you get out of the perfect center of the stage, you have a SMALLER Final Destination.
--Using pit: curving the arrows above the sandbag and curving them down to hit your opponent as kirby is simply 1337.



Some possible strategies:

Hiding behind the sandbag: The sandbag will absorb any and all laser spam, miniscule charged shots (like lucario or samus), absorb the arrows, but ROB's lasers and zelda's dins fire will go through them. The implication is that it can essentially wall off a projectile user and force them into attacking. Also, it means that the stage generally favors a character like marth who does not have a projectile.

Isolating the sandbag from the center: As you can probably guess, the sandbag is the main hazard here. It'll reappear if you knock it off the stage and put it right back into the middle. Just think of this scenario like Luigi's Mansion, you can just put it onto a side using a smash attack and then open up the stage for your projectile spam.

ROB, meta, peach, and pit should be able to go from one side to the other, but they're commited to that side..so it's not an effective stall since you can beat them over there and edgeguard.

IMO: it's borderline starter because it's not as big as it appears (it is horizontally, but not vertically)

video that it's possible:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t19OXZrPjxY
--anybody with homebrew want to capture a brawl there? it'd be appreciated :)

Here's the code
4A000000 81000000
3253CDDC 01010101
305E25C4 00000036
145E25DC FFFFFFFF
E2000001 00000000
305E25DC FFFFFFFF
145E25D8 00000037
E2000002 80008000

to get on the stage just select random
^sadly, you can't use random....unless you want that stage with that code, if there's a better one pls tell me

And I must say, playing Brawl without tripping and playing on this stage at will made my day and i actually want to play this now over melee

--thanks to lcampoy8 for the pic
 

deepseadiva

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This thread is cute.
But on topic, it would be neutral. And it would be AWESOME.
 

Phoenix~Lament

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UCSD
If you were sonic or metaknight, or someone else insanely fast in the air/ground, you could easily camp this stage to victory.

In my opinion, counterpick or maybe even banned.
 

Barge

All I want is a custom title
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Mr. Sand bag would definitely be a nuisance, I'd love that stage if Mr. SB wasn't there.
 

bobson

Smash Lord
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Jul 28, 2008
Messages
1,674
Isn't deliberately stalling banned anyway? ROB spam would still work, but ROB spam is a given on almost any flat-ish stage.

The sandbag always being there opens up a lot of strategy potential that I'd like to see put to full use.
 

Endless Nightmares

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How do we know it doesn't have a ceiling? Because Sandbag can't die off the top? Or have people tried it against real characters on this stage?
 

Nosyt

Smash Rookie
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Aug 1, 2008
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England
How do we know it doesn't have a ceiling? Because Sandbag can't die off the top? Or have people tried it against real characters on this stage?
You can kill yoursel on it with the Wario waft, so I'd assume you could kill horizonally...
 

bobson

Smash Lord
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Jul 28, 2008
Messages
1,674
It doesn't have a ceiling...
I just tested it out, and it definitely has a ceiling. Relatively high one, but it has one. Also of note: even with all items on high, only sandbags will spawn there, and they'll only spawn food or stickers (probably CDs, too, but I didn't see any) if you hit them. The regular one that appears with the stage will never spawn anything, though.
 

Delta_BP26

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It's not that big. It's just a bit longer than FD. The Sandbag would, as somebody previously stated, open a whole new world of strategies that would be very interesting to develop. The high ceiling isn't that big a problem, and there is no stupid lip on the stage either.
 

betterthanbonds9

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I just tested it out, and it definitely has a ceiling. Relatively high one, but it has one. Also of note: even with all items on high, only sandbags will spawn there, and they'll only spawn food or stickers (probably CDs, too, but I didn't see any) if you hit them. The regular one that appears with the stage will never spawn anything, though.
items would be off, but it's kinda saddening to know that the normal ones dont drop stickers (why didn't nintendo reward us for the 70 seconds we waste there?)

You can hit the sand bag to refresh moves and stop attacks XD. I dont know I think this is a really cool idea! A final destination with an ever present Mr. Sandbag.
true, my bowser has a 95 hit percentage :laugh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t19OXZrPjxY is proof that it can happen

i desire to see this tested but i lack 3 main things that really blows: brawl, homebrew channel, capture device, so the assistance of others would be greatly appreciated

Isn't deliberately stalling banned anyway? ROB spam would still work, but ROB spam is a given on almost any flat-ish stage.
lol no, unless it's infinite/near infinite. Otherwise campers would be banned...and where's the justice in that?
 

Sosuke

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Neutral defiantly. =P
I love the waiting room. so fun.
 

chandy

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The waiting room deserves to be neutral. Nothing unordinary happens on that stage. The sandbag would stop opponents spamming projectiles and as for rob, he can only use his laser once in a while. The stage being wider than FD wud only make the game slightly slower paced but still fair. And there are no bad ledges in the waiting room.
 

Mr.Ious

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Sandbag affects some chars more than others, so it would have to be counterpick.
Also, the fact that the camera always shows the sandbag could make it really annoying to play on
 

Serris

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No way! This stage has to be banned. Sandbag is so good on this stage, he can't even be grabbed!

Now for a more serious response:

It's pretty neutral, and it'd be awesome in a tournament. Abusing the Sandbag to stop your opponent's projectile spam would be fun.
 

orochijes

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 26, 2007
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I don't think the ceiling is as high as everyone says it is...
This could turn out to be my favorite stage ^_^
 

betterthanbonds9

Smash Ace
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Hey guys, just felt like I'd give an update here, I updated the OP with the code and some more concrete data

The ceiling is the same as FD!!!

The only real issue is whether the sandbag makes it CP, and because the stage seems to be normal size and the sandbag is easily altered (but it does need ot take some hits first) I believe this to be a better FD.

testing about possible stalls though
 

orochijes

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
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While the celing is almost on top of the screen, the side blastlines seem to be kinda far ( not rediculously far or anything)
Blastlines are in a rectangular shape here.
 

LP4Life666

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Messages
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Wouldn't you have to take into account that nobody has ever played 1v1 on this level before? I'd assume it would be a starter level for tourneys, after people have tested it out, etc.
 

VietGeek

Smash Hero
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Mar 19, 2008
Messages
8,133
I actually have a concern here. When I battle on this stage, I notice how the camera never quite zooms out correctly to show the end of the stage you're approaching. It's so huge that usually the camera makes a half-*** attempt to display the whole stage but fail. Visibility usually isn't an issue with stages, but it is here since only one player was intended to ever be there and the camera isn't as optimized as it should.

Also, the ledges as of late seem to be hugged differently. If you stand directly next to the ledge and try to do run off ledge -> fastfall -> DI into stage, you won't grab the ledge, but instead seem to miss completely and be susceptible to be edgehogged yourself.

I'd have to say it's worst than FD because the ledge is made so that if you're stuck even a bit, you can't DI toward the ledge and hope the auto-sweetspot clings you on. If you're a character with a rather linear recovery, you're screwed.

The Sandbag does however, provide a lot of interesting elements. However, I believe neutrals should have the least distractions possible. The sandbag's positioning plays a very important role in matches here, from acting as a shield, to merely being positioned in a spot inconvenient to the other user. Too much focus may be made onto the sandbag and not the foe.

It should be Counterpick/borderline neutral imo. But last I heard, no tripping isn't tourney legal yet so why rush ourselves? One advancement at a time I would say.
 

betterthanbonds9

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I actually have a concern here. When I battle on this stage, I notice how the camera never quite zooms out correctly to show the end of the stage you're approaching. It's so huge that usually the camera makes a half-*** attempt to display the whole stage but fail. Visibility usually isn't an issue with stages, but it is here since only one player was intended to ever be there and the camera isn't as optimized as it should.
camera has to include the sandbag, but I've never had a moment where I've said "crap i wish i could see myself." A couple times recovering as zelda were awkward, but I'm rusty with her recovery anyway...and had the same issue at fd later.

Also, the ledges as of late seem to be hugged differently. If you stand directly next to the ledge and try to do run off ledge -> fastfall -> DI into stage, you won't grab the ledge, but instead seem to miss completely and be susceptible to be edgehogged yourself.
I can do it with zelda fine, and she's the only character I know off the bat that I can do it with. I just extremehog with lucario and falco i just wait for the recovery because I'm too suicidal with him >_>.

I'd have to say it's worst than FD because the ledge is made so that if you're stuck even a bit, you can't DI toward the ledge and hope the auto-sweetspot clings you on. If you're a character with a rather linear recovery, you're screwed.
it' smore like battlefield, which is good, you can't get stuck in that little patch. My wolf was awesome on this stage using either of his recoveries (I just suck with Zelda's as of late).

The Sandbag does however, provide a lot of interesting elements. However, I believe neutrals should have the least distractions possible. The sandbag's positioning plays a very important role in matches here, from acting as a shield, to merely being positioned in a spot inconvenient to the other user. Too much focus may be made onto the sandbag and not the foe.
It's actually easy to approach here, it seems strange but maybe for the first 30 seconds the character without the projectile own, but it's almost impossible to keep that up because of the spacing and the sandbag moving opens up one side as it closes the other off...

It should be Counterpick/borderline neutral imo. But last I heard, no tripping isn't tourney legal yet so why rush ourselves? One advancement at a time I would say.
yeah, borderline starter seems possible, but i can see as time goes by it becoming full starter. Oh, the no tripping comment was just there as a sort of "try that out too" thing. Plus it is amazing playing 20 matches and no trips. 3 lives, no items, captain falcon, waiting room. Oh yeah!

Wouldn't you have to take into account that nobody has ever played 1v1 on this level before? I'd assume it would be a starter level for tourneys, after people have tested it out, etc.
I have...and I'm trying to get more people to try it as well, i think you're saying starter, but not sure.

^ what he said...sandbags cant be killed off the top....ever...theyll fall back down regardless...
Yep, but people can
 

Kiyosuki

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Feb 23, 2008
Messages
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Meta Knight, Three Stock, No Items, Wi-Fi waiting room just doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
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