The West MI Thread / Make Plans Here - PM Tourney: Red Edition

[lordhelmet]

Red vs Super $10 MM - Jan 26th

Update that OP

 

[Solharath]

I'm okay with this.

 

[W.C.N]

Can I face the winner for $20

 

[Solharath]

You butter be free.

I get it.

 

[fZk]

1. L
2. Lordy
3. fZk
4. Marco
5. Red
6. Legit or Jawsome

Done is Done

I'm better than Lordy and he knows it, and if he forgot I'll whip his butt next time I'm over there to remind him.



Nobody MM Jason's Bowser, that's a ****ing trap and you will get *****.

 

[W.C.N]

Super can take it because Mario always beats bowser

 

[Damittom]

So this guy says this

Congrats, you're #4 or whatever. Suddenly the numbers seem a whole lot less special the less competition you have.

Then goes and does this

1. Super
2. Robjoe
3. Flan
4. rsr2
5. Captain Rainbowz

 

[Solharath]

So this guy says this


Then goes and does this

The joke





















Tom's head.

Son, I am dissapp-OH GOD PROJECT M FINISHED DOWNLOADING.

 

[Damittom]

I think your the one that didn't catch the first joke when everyone else did.

1. L
2. Lordy
3. fZk
4. Marco
5. Red
6. Legit or Jawsome

Done is Done

Seeing as your the one that is being left behind ill explain it to you.

See that done is done, that means I was being sarcastic and didn't care to do any research because it would be pointless to have two separate PRs in our state.


Oh and I caught your joke. What I did is called trolling.

 

[Roller]

That all said, I think I'll be playing with a wider range of characters now. You'll see a lot of from me, but I think I'll be tossing in some into the mix a lot more. Maybe rediscover Marth or Fox for harder matchups.

...This is the opposite of what you should do.

East Lansing is technically East MI. Congrats, you're #4 or whatever. Suddenly the numbers seem a whole lot less special the less competition you have.

But I guess if we're playing this game I'm #1 Northern MI. Yooo, Ori get on that.

1. Super
2. Robjoe
3. Flan
4. rsr2
5. Captain Rainbowz

Yo, I love this idea. Rainbowz for PR.

When did Sparta Kick and Oblivion die tho?

 

[Solharath]

What I did is called trolling.

It's been fun, but I was bored. Now that Project M 2.5 is out, I really don't care what you do with your PR. I'm just gonna, I dunno, have fun.

...This is the opposite of what you should do.


When did Sparta Kick and Oblivion die tho?

Obviously they're Northeast MI. Just ask Meteorology.

Also, what problem is there in rediscovering characters? I might have fun with an old game. Aren't you the guy who said, "If you main a bad character, it's your fault you lose, not your character's? Be a man and choose [high tier], and let your skill decide for itself." I may be paraphrasing, and I think you said MetaKnight specifically, but eh, I've yet to have fun with him.

 

[L_Cancel]

Alright Super and Ori, I'll do any amount up to 5 dollars >:l

 

[Roller]

Also, what problem is there in rediscovering characters? I might have fun with an old game. Aren't you the guy who said, "If you main a bad character, it's your fault you lose, not your character's? Be a man and choose [high tier], and let your skill decide for itself." I may be paraphrasing, and I think you said MetaKnight specifically, but eh, I've yet to have fun with him.

Yes. You seem to be misunderstanding what I was saying tho.

It was not, pick up a top tier character 'in addition' to your current one. The suggestion was that if your goal is to improve and to achieve the best results you are capable of (which is not the case for everyone) then you should main a top tier character.

It was later implied that the character would replace the ****ty one, and that you would focus all your efforts on improving and intricately learning everything there is to know about that character, and what to do in any given situation (how to beat tornado, how to avoid getting grabbed/split up popo&nana vs ICs, how to approach an olimar who is walling you out, etc.) with that character. To master your playstyle.

Playing and practicing with 4-5 different characters necessarily reduces the time you can spend on improving with any one of them. This practice time-displacement means for every practice session you are only getting ~20-33% of the benefits for any given character as someone who is putting in the vast majority of their practice time with their main (like me or Gio).

What will wind up happening is you will get a bunch of characters you are decent with, but you will be holding yourself back from being truly great with any one of them, relative to the amount of playtime you are putting in.

At low-mid level play (i.e. West MI) this can be an effective strategy; as character matchups matter a lot at that level. However you are not just going to beat Zinoto with an average level .

If you want to be good enough to get PR'd or to even become respected/feared as a player by anyone; it's far more efficient to pick one good character which you enjoy playing and put all your effort into improving with that character, than it is to split your time between Mario, Sheik, Marth, and whoever else.

I co-mained pikachu and ICs for a long time, and never did much of anything even remotely notable. It was only after a season of playing almost exclusively ICs, and pouring all my focus into that character that I got PR'd.

1 season, and I went from never even making HM to being on the top half of the PR. The following season I was #2. The only one above me being my primary sparring partner.

After that I drastically reduced my practice time and fell down quite a bit.

Assuming you are using efficient methods to practice, and are not just practicing doing the same wrong things over and over; more practice time with a character->being better with that character.

So don't intentionally reduce the amount of skill increase you can achieve over a given amount of time by BSing around with other characters.

 

[lordhelmet]

Roller is spot-on and I agree 100%

Jason, $5 MK ditto on the 26th if you are man enough to face me on even ground

 

[fZk]

I want a piece of those mms going around.

 

[L_Cancel]

Roller is spot-on and I agree 100%

Jason, $5 MK ditto on the 26th if you are man enough to face me on even ground

Let's do thatttt~

 

[JTsm]

Roller, your siggy is the best.

 

[SoulPech]

JTsm just mad.

 

[Solharath]

Yes. You seem to be misunderstanding what I was saying tho.

Possibly.

It was not, pick up a top tier character 'in addition' to your current one. The suggestion was that if your goal is to improve and to achieve the best results you are capable of (which is not the case for everyone) then you should main a top tier character.

But I'm talking about the purposes of having fun, not the purposes of being PR'd. I haven't been having too much fun for a long time, so my goal right now is to rediscover that fun by trying out different characters until one of them feels right to me.

Playing and practicing with 4-5 different characters necessarily reduces the time you can spend on improving with any one of them. This practice time-displacement means for every practice session you are only getting ~20-33% of the benefits for any given character as someone who is putting in the vast majority of their practice time with their main (like me or Gio).

Well put and agreed, but I'm not looking to get better at Brawl. Not for the foreseeable future.

What will wind up happening is you will get a bunch of characters you are decent with, but you will be holding yourself back from being truly great with any one of them, relative to the amount of playtime you are putting in.

An interesting and well grounded theory, and I do love to win games. However, I'll be using the information if I want to get serious in Project M more than Brawl.

At low-mid level play (i.e. West MI)

I chuckled. Not because you're wrong, but I appreciate the bluntness.

If you want to be good enough to get PR'd or to even become respected/feared as a player by anyone; it's far more efficient to pick one good character which you enjoy playing and put all your effort into improving with that character, than it is to split your time between Mario, Sheik, Marth, and whoever else.

And to completely broken record this, the point is that I'm looking for a character which I enjoy playing that can also be considered 'good'. Right now I'm in the community to have fun and play games, see the skill levels there are, and challenge myself for the fun of it. I am not in the community to troll around and smack talk(although they can be fun!) because I would much rather appreciate the time I get to play the game with others because I live in BFE with no group of Smashers I can play with reliably. I'm way more casually competitive than truly competitive because I just want to go from match to match. Playing Smash isn't something I get to do very often. Winning and being feared isn't my MO. Playing and being respected is. I don't mean respected as in as a good player, I just like being seen for the player I am. I want people to play me at their best.

The rest you have to say is about being PR'd and getting good with characters and your own personal history of how you got to the top. It's inspiring, but you're arguing a point I agree with that isn't the actual issue that I'm playing at.

Now that that is over with... Money Match Challenges!

Brawl -
L_Cancel - Mario vs. Bowser $5
Red - Mario vs. Sheik $5
Red - Sheik vs. Sheik $1
Ori_Bro - Mario vs. Olimar $5
JawsMoneyMatchMike - Mario vs. PT $5
MoneyMatchMike - Mario vs. Pikachu $5
MoneyMatchMike - Marth vs. Pikachu $Taco
Roller - Mario vs. Ics $2
Zinoto - Mario vs. Diddy $2

Project M 2.5 -
MoneyMatchMike - Sheik vs. Link $5
Vox - Sheik vs. Lucas $5
Root - Sheik vs. Sheik $5
I suppose just about anyone - Sheik vs ? $1/$5
'cause of tips and I want to play against people giving it their all. And/or lols..... Mostly lulz.

Project M 2.1 -
I MM with Sonic. =P

It's funny, I agree with the whole focus on a character and getting better thing, but I'm having too much fun with Wario, Diddy, Pit, Mario, and Sheik in Project M 2.5 to care about focusing right now. Can't wait to get thrashed at Lordy Saga 5.

 

[Roller]

As I said at the beginning of my post, that post you were referring to had made it perfectly clear that not everyone has the goal of achieving the best results they are capable of; and that neither of my posts applied to those with other goals.

That being said, your entire debating methodology is based on fallacious logic when you cite a source out of context which does not apply at all to your argument when put in it's proper context.

And sure, I'll accept the mm.

Also. FzK, MM vs my Falco at some point?

 

[Solharath]

As I said at the beginning of my post, that post you were referring to had made it perfectly clear that not everyone has the goal of achieving the best results they are capable of; and that neither of my posts applied to those with other goals.

That being said, your entire debating methodology is based on fallacious logic when you cite a source out of context which does not apply at all to your argument when put in it's proper context.

Problem is, you're treating it as a one-step argument where mine is multi-step. The first part is to see where I go and what fun I have and the results I get from playing different characters. Then I come to the point if I want to pursue getting better and getting PR'd if I feel it's a worthwhile venture. Then I'll hit the point where I follow your post word for word.

The issue is miscommunication. You're arguing that there is a clear right and a wrong and anything else is a gray area that doesn't apply. I see your post as a goal to work towards, but I am pursuing a separate path to it because I'm not sure what 'good' character I enjoy playing with. The difference is that you had a high tier to go to when you wanted to buckle down and get good. You also had a sparring partner that was amazing. I don't have either of those things and I need to play multiple characters against multiple people to find out what works for me.

In essence, I'm dealing with specifics while you're generalizing things for the application of everyone who fits within specific parameters. I'm outside those parameters, but am looking to possibly be a part of them, we're just at different places.

 

[Zinoto]

Super, MM me in project too. I don't know which character i main yet, but I'll be more than a challenge for you

 

[Solharath]

I hope so! I like challenges. But I've yet to play you in Brawl once, and I've only missed one PS. I hope you come out to Lordy Saga 5.

 

[fZk]

Super, MM me in project too. I don't know which character i main yet, but I'll be more than a challenge for you

Diddy is in the new demo, give it a try.

 

[Roller]

In essence, I'm dealing with specifics while you're generalizing things for the application of everyone who fits within specific parameters. I'm outside those parameters...

Again. You are the one who brought up the post involving those parameters. You should not have brought it up as a justification for your current ideology, when the post you are referencing does not apply to said ideology.

You're not included in the parameters of the post at this point. ok. Then don't mention it in regards to why you are utilizing your current methodology. If you do eventually wind up falling into said parameters, at that point it would make sense to cite the post. Doing so to justify the actions of someone in any other frame of mind (such as yours currently, which despite the possibility of ending up at my post's ideology, isn't currently included within it) is an inherently out of context use of the post.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I'm too.drunk to read......anything.

But.

I do know there's a 97% chance this argument is ******** anyway.

 

[Solharath]

Again. You are the one who brought up the post involving those parameters. You should not have brought it up as a justification for your current ideology, when the post you are referencing does not apply to said ideology.

You're not included in the parameters of the post at this point. ok. Then don't mention it in regards to why you are utilizing your current methodology. If you do eventually wind up falling into said parameters, at that point it would make sense to cite the post. Doing so to justify the actions of someone in any other frame of mind (such as yours currently, which despite the possibility of ending up at my post's ideology, isn't currently included within it) is an inherently out of context use of the post.

Tech is right, this is ********, because you've decided there is an argument. An argument you're trying to have on the internet. I've attempted to be civil and merely point out that there was miscommunication involved and that we were both right from where we're standing, but that is apparently not good enough for you, so I withdraw from the supposed argument without further explanation as to why we're both correct, so you can have your victory. It's simply not worthwhile anymore.

So that Smashfest at Dakota's on the 5th(mostly P:M, but he does do Brawl if you have a setup). I do believe I'll be going to that with the sole intent of having fun and throwing MM around for the hell of it. I hope everyone can just put aside internet words and just play some games– Personally, I hope to see more hype Robjoe vs. Jawsome matches. Those make every smashfest.

 

[Roller]

There is a profound difference between an argument and a debate... I don't think I've maligned your character in any way, nor have I said anything even remotely "uncivil" to you...

I don't even feel any animosity towards you at all. I'm merely clarifying and defending my point of view.

I apologize if my (admittedly sometimes blunt or impassioned) responses offended you. It was not my intent to do so.

I'll drop this here though. We can discuss it irl if you want.

 

[lordhelmet]

In other news:

2013 Hype! Year that West MI overtakes East MI as the best region in the world

 

[Roller]

Lordyknight 2013

 

[JTsm]

In other news:

2013 Hype! Year that West MI overtakes East MI as the best region in the world

The LordKnight Rises.


​

 

[Arcalyth]

Yo Super, I accept your MM See you on the 26th!

Unless someone from Kzoo is going to Dakotafest on the 5th and can pick me up from Kentwood on the way up. Anyone volunteer?

Edit: Oh, and I'd be completely interested in a MI Project M PR. (Agree with L and Super about separating West MI, it's dumb and we shouldn't have a severe East/West dichotomy anyway)

 

[Roller]

Having a united PR reduces the schism between the east and west, it doesn't exacerbate it like you seem to be implying...

Plus East MI goes to West MI tourneys each season, and vice versa.

PlusPlus. Sparta Kick is farther from the East MI scene than most/all(?) West MI players, no johns.

GooglePlus. Almost nobody in MI actually plays Project M seriously enough to warrant a PR for it. Super is the only one I know who actually cares about it.

 

[Solharath]

Having a united PR reduces the schism between the east and west, it doesn't exacerbate it like you seem to be implying...

Plus East MI goes to West MI tourneys each season, and vice versa.

PlusPlus. Sparta Kick is farther from the East MI scene than most/all(?) West MI players, no johns.

GooglePlus. Almost nobody in MI actually plays Project M seriously enough to warrant a PR for it. Super is the only one I know who actually cares about it.

The Dakotafests are full of West MI peeps who exclusively play Project M over Brawl. Last time we had roughly ten people show up for it, which is good numbers for a West MI smashfest. Taking into account that we had four different players at Lordy's Project M tournament and you've already got a fairly well sized group. (Myself, Robjoe, Flan, Flan's girlfriend, Jawsome, Smalls, Root, Vox. and Dakota off the top of my head.)

And according to Google Maps, I am four minutes further away form Ann Arbor than Sparta Kick.

 

[Roller]

Wait. A few things.


1) "The East MI scene" refers to way more than just AA. EL, WB, Livonia, and the greater Detroit area are notable East MI locations. Taking this into account, I'm pretty confident you are closer to the East MI scene than SK.

2) You have SK's address?

3) So you're saying you have 10-15 people who are willing to play the game? (I'm willing to bet money a number of them don't play it much on their own, and a few of them don't even own it) What's the point of a PR if you barely have enough people to fill one?

 

[Arcalyth]

SuperTH
Robjoe
Flan
Flan's GF
Jawsome
Smalls
root (me)
Vox
Sophy (Dakota)
Kujaku (my crew)
McKillington (my crew)

As well as these players who I'm pretty sure are getting into PM:
Rh1thmz
Artificial Flavor
Fishnax
Two more players from my uni that I don't have tags for

I'm pretty sure it's picking up a bit on the East side too.

IIRC I had about 12 people in my P:M singles bracket at rootfest 3, but the tio file corrupted so I can't confirm that. A lot of the players on the list above weren't even in that bracket... so yeah, there's definitely interest. The 2.5 release and the migration to Smashboards is only going to increase the PM playerbase too, so maybe we'll get more Michiganders into PM.

 

[Ori_bro]

P:M is very much a West Michigan game haha. I mean, if the codeset actually worked for me, I'd actually play it since I find it more fun than Melee.

 

[JTsm]

Only active members that I know of is me and Dakota for East MI. pingas.

Ivysaur mains :3

 

[Damittom]

SuperTH
Robjoe
Flan
Flan's GF
Jawsome
Smalls
root (me)
Vox
Sophy (Dakota)
Kujaku (my crew)
McKillington (my crew)

As well as these players who I'm pretty sure are getting into PM:
Rh1thmz
Artificial Flavor
Fishnax
Two more players from my uni that I don't have tags for

I'm pretty sure it's picking up a bit on the East side too.

IIRC I had about 12 people in my P:M singles bracket at rootfest 3, but the tio file corrupted so I can't confirm that. A lot of the players on the list above weren't even in that bracket... so yeah, there's definitely interest. The 2.5 release and the migration to Smashboards is only going to increase the PM playerbase too, so maybe we'll get more Michiganders into PM.

Hate to tell you, but you guys have a long way to go before calling pm something in MI. Do you realize brawl has over 100 different players that have entered at least one tournament over the past year, and we still have trouble making a decent pr. usually only the top 1/2 of our pr even matters on the regional level.

if you guys want to inflate your ego by all means go for it, but PM needs to grow significantly before any of you matter on a regional level.

So I would assume your time would be better spent on networking and growing your game's scene rather than making a pr.

 

[Arcalyth]

So I would assume your time would be better spent on networking and growing your game's scene rather than making a pr.

Why can't we do both? And wouldn't having a PR interest more people into playing competitive PM?

Granted, I don't really know how power rankings work in the grander scheme of things but I don't see why we can't rank known PM players.