The UU MetaGame Discussion Thread

[verycoolguy]

Hitmontop can use Foresight to get rid of the Fighting immunity in Ghosts, and then hit with Close Combat super effectively.
A defensive Calm Mind Slowbro can set up on Hitmontop, as Sucker Punch will fail, and even when it hits, it deals 41% maximum, so Slack Off can easily heal it off.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this (you kinda contradicted yourself with saying there's no real reason to use a Choice Scarf if you really need the extra speed...), but the reason for using Banded Hitmonlee as opposed to some of the other Fighting types in UU is simple: Power (and to some extent pressure). As Terywj said, now that Gallade is gone Hitmonlee has the strongest Close Combat in UU. And this forces a lot of people to switch out their current Pokemon when they see Hitmonlee, as they're expecting something on their team to die if they don't.

Mainly what I was referring to was using hitmonlee in the role of a scarfed sweeper/revenger as compared to a banded threat. Arguably, for the choice band set, you could do the same thing with Choice Band Hariyama with similar coverage, better defenses, and guts to prevent burn from rendering you helpless (plus you can switch in on all status instead of just paralysis with Limber). The only advantage Hitmonlee has over other powerful UU fighting types is its speed, which is emphasized a lot with a scarf and coverage moves. It leads it to be an effective scarfed opponent which can not only hit very hard but outspeed all non-scarfed UU (and most of it with a scarf as well) and sweep a weakened team.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Permission from Spire

Opinions on Cresselia and Porygon Z?

It's been roughly a month since those two were let down into UU..

-Terywj

 

[SilentVerse]

I haven't really found Cress to be that bad IMO. It still does have checks, though whether the amount it has is too little or not is quite debatable. With Sub CM seeing the most use, I've found that things like Scyther and fast Encorers do great against it.

Pory has troubles with it's only slightly above average speed, but I've found that scarf variants are used more to compensate. Specs are rarer, but much deadlier, with Tri Attack reaching ridiculous proportions with specs and Adaptability.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Specially defensive Clefable I find works pretty well, packing Encore with it.

I agree. I've seen most Scarf Porygon Z rather than Specs, although Specs is more frightening.

-Terywj

 

[SilentVerse]

I've used Haze Milotic to a great extent against Cress, stalling it out easily with Haze. It really helps against things like Curse Registeel, CM Cress, and Curse Umbreon as well, which I find makes it really good in this metagame.

Specs Z can manage in UU, since the overall speed is a bit lower, but it really likes Scarf more, since it outspeeds most of UU while still hitting hard.

Also, what do you think of the past suspects, Raikou and Froslass, as well, as the supposedly broken rain?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I've never tried it, but I've heard Absol with Taunt shuts down Cresselia as well?

I had thought Froslass was going to be voted BL, so I was surprised that she stayed in.
Raikou I've never really had much trouble, since I pack a Scarfed Nidoking as a revenge killer. But the occasional Sub+Calm Mind set does irritate me.

-Terywj

 

[SilentVerse]

I don't think it would. Absol is waaayyyy too frail to Taunt Cress, and if it has Signal Beam, you're taking massive damage. Though I doubt many Cress' are going to stay in on Absol, unless they predict a Pursuit and try to hit you with a Signal Beam.

I'm pretty sure Froslass was almost going to be voted BL, before something someone said convinced enough people to keep it in UU. That's what I think happened anyways. Raikou hasn't been much of an issue for me either, but I run Registeel with EQ, and I feel that a lot of people believe Cress is simply better for CMing, so I've found that Raikou isn't used as much anymore.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ahh. Then a mishear on my part.

Froslass isn't necessarily broken, but it's annoying. My Ambipom lead would love to see it gone.

Although recently I haven't been on Shoddy much to tell the truth.

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

And your Ambipom lead loses to my Protect/SR/EQ/Revenge Dugtrio lead. Mwahahaha!

That Dugtrio lead makes Froslass leads fun too. EQ doesn't kill them, but I still get SR up and they tend to be pressured so badly they never get Spikes down either. It's a win-win.

People who think Cress is a better CM user than Raikou are idiots. Just my point of view. Granted, my OU playing gives me the habit of carrying something that obliterates walls like there's no tomorrow anyway, so Raikou's raw power, speed, and overall bulk tend to give me more issues than a simple Crissy.

I don't play UU much, but that's my opinion anyway.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

My Ambipom carries U-Turn, Writer.

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

And I still get SR up. Mission accomplished!

Really, all it's supposed to do is get SR up; nothing more, nothing less. Revenge is just used because I likely wouldn't get a Sucker Punch off vs Froslass anyway, and in the case that you make the mistake to Return instead of U-Turn while I set up SR, then you're dead next turn. AND you still have to deal with me for another turn. Chances are you'll then switch in a wall to tank through it or something with priority to take it out, in which case I can react accordingly and probably put you in a bad position again. And that's the extra catch to the Dugtrio lead and why I love it so much. It gives the momentum to me within the first few turns, and I can usually keep that momentum for a good portion of the game.

I mean, that can basically be said about any lead...but I've found it especially true with Dugtrio for some reason.

EDIT: I also use 0 HP/0 Def/0 SDef IVs on it so that way you're guaranteed to knock me down into the 100-200 base power range of Reversal. I didn't see a use for the extra IVs to begin with, so I figured why not?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ahh. Well by "...it loses to..." I thought you meant it could beat it one v. one, which it could if I didn't have U-Turn.

Ambipom doesn't setup Stealth Rock. He just stops it from happening. Unless it's a Life Orb Ambipom, like mine.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Lead comparisons are always kind of tricky. Anything that is faster than and 2HKOs Metagross doesn't necessarily beat it, because it gets up Stealth Rocks. But Metagross is still a great Pokemon, even with only three attacks, right? So who has the advantage? It's hard to say.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Yeah exactly. All in all though Dugtrio is still a viable lead in UU.

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

Ahh. Well by "...it loses to..." I thought you meant it could beat it one v. one, which it could if I didn't have U-Turn.

Ambipom doesn't setup Stealth Rock. He just stops it from happening. Unless it's a Life Orb Ambipom, like mine.

-Terywj

I know Ambipom doesn't set up SR. >.< It can't stop Dugtrio from setting it up either though, which is the entire reason for running it. That's what I mean by 'wins against'. If I can just do my job then I consider it a win. Stopping you from doing yours, however, is always a nice bonus.

EDIT: Winning against an opposing lead, in my opinion, is all about whether or not the lead can do its job when facing the opponent's lead. The job usually involves doing something specific, such as incapacitating the opponent's lead or setting up SR, as well as setting the right tempo for the rest of the game. Just a simple theory, but it makes sense nonetheless.

 

[Wave⁂]

But what's Metagross's "job" as a lead? Or, to put in UU terms, what's Uxie's "job"?

 

[UltiMario]

Metagross' job is to set up SR then take something down. Only Rotom and Bronzong can take everything that a Metagross can dish out, so its pretty effective in that.


Also, enjoying that prank, annoying? :3

 

[Circa]

I don't really know for either of those. I mean, I could at least take an educated guess, but I've never used Metagross in OU and I've only used Uxie once in UU (and it was a scarf variant). Some reasons for choosing a specific lead, though, isn't just based around what it can do as a lead, but what else it can do for your team as well. It's not as black and white as I tried to make it.

Metagross has the ability to tank hits from leads, set up SR if not Taunted, take out leads that do Taunt it, and still come in later to Explode on something your team doesn't like much (or set up SR if that's more important). I'd basically classify Lead Metagross as offensive support, if that makes sense.

Uxie's use as a lead is kinda complicated to explain, but basically it revolves around its ability to have something good to do in all situations. If they can Taunt, you U-Turn. It's not going to matter that you switched out anyway, because Uxie's so bulky that it can basically come in whenever it wants later and do what it was supposed to do at the start. I'd probably use Uxie as a lead if my team just simply needed team support, and I couldn't find a place somewhere else. And seeing as that tends to happen for teams quite often, it only makes sense that it finds its place among the top UU leads.

I may be wrong, but those are my theories for their uses as leads. Now obviously a Pokemon like Uxie can't necessarily "lose" in the lead position, but at the same time it can still "lose" if it doesn't get a chance to do the main job your team needs some time during the match. That's the catch to using something like that.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Lol it really was UltiMario. XD

On-topic: I'll be generating the UU to OU Project then.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Also, enjoying that prank, annoying? :3

NO ONE LlKES YOU

 

[UltiMario]

I'll take that as a yes.

XD

 

[CT Chia]

Wow what happened to this meta game lol

Ambipom, Slowbro, Porygon-Z, and Cresselia all in UU? More like OU lol

 

[UltiMario]

Slowbro and Ambi aren't OU at all, and Cresselia is arguable.

But P-Z isn't UU, hes too dang good. I feel as if hes going to go, then cresselia is going to follow, seeing as the highest attacking stat in UU will be gone, so it'll be down to like Absol or something to stop it lol

 

[CT Chia]

People don't realize how amazing Slowbro is. Seriously, he's like really really good.

 

[Pink Reaper]

He's really really good until you realize that a) he cant deal with toxic whatsoever, b) he cant beat Blissey ever, c) he still get's 2HKO'd by alot of PHYSICAL stuff in OU, d) vaporeon is just plain better, e) they made an OU pokemon that is a combination of everything that ****s up Slowbro in Rotom-A

Slowbro is solidly UU

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ambipom would definitely make OU.

If it had better all-around stats and more bulk.

-Terywj

 

[Bowser_Gangsta]

Many people may disagree with me, but I like my Ambipoms to Fake-Out/ Kinda Revenge Kill. I usually just switch it in on frail types, and especially in Weather teams, his strong Fake-Out can come in handy.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Other than acting as a strong lead, that's exactly what my Life Orb Ambipom does.

I just make sure Spiritomb does not exist on the opposing team.

-Terywj

 

[Feels]

Wait, If Porygon-Z is UU, is Porygon2 still UU too?
And Ambipom is pretty useful in OU I find it.

 

[Circa]

Porygon2 is actually NU, and I don't actually recall a big time where it even sat in UU. It kinda skipped that stage. :\

 

[Wave⁂]

DPP Time-line of Porygon2:

"Pory2? I'll just use PoryZ, noob"

Two years later...
"Pory2 gets Trace. Huh."
Pory2 usage increases by 2%.

One month later...
"HOLY MUK Pory2 counters like four Pokemon in OU!"
Pory2 usage increases by 200%.

One week later...
"HOLY MUK Pory2 kind of sucks."
Pory2 usage decreases 200%.

 

[CRASHiC]

And Ambipom is pretty useful in OU I find it.

how, I'd like to hear.

 

[xLeafybug =D]

Muk this, I was saving my 1337th post for a time I got drunk and came here and posted a story.

Ambipom is completely outclassed by Infernape in OU.

 

[Feels]

Muk this, I was saving my 1337th post for a time I got drunk and came here and posted a story.

Ambipom is completely outclassed by Infernape in OU.

Yeah, I know.

And I actually prefer to play with UUs in OU because it's fun when you rip though a team of Scizor, Salamence, Tyranitar, etc. With them ^^

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Ambipom lacks to bulk, speed, and power (although Technician is a blessing) to survive in OU. I've said it before, if Ambipom's stat spread looked like 88 / 112 / 80 / 60 / 80 / 125 with the right support it could make OU.

-Terywj

 

[Circa]

No, with that stat spread it would definitely be OU. No need for 'the right support' even. Flygon basically has those same defenses but lower Attack and Speed (although it does have much better typing, but that's beside the point) and it sits in OU. Ambipom also has Technician to hold over a lot of things in OU (except for of course Scizor, but Ambipom has some stuff over him as well). Match that all up with its already pretty good movepool and you have yourself an OU Ambipom.

EDIT: I like that spread btw. You should make an Ambipom evolution for the SWF-Dex. :3

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Not to mention it could still use that Special Attack with Nasty Plot and Baton Pass it away.

Lol. I should. But I'd be double-posting.

-Terywj

 

[Terywj [태리]]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67911

Well guys, I'm glad to see Cresselia and Porygon Z go. I may actually play on Shoddy a lot more now with them gone. Damp Rock stays though, but oh well. There's always a next time! :3

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

Just saw it.