The Uniqueness Tier List: Captain Falcon, Robin, Lucina, Shulk, and Meta-Knight

[BluePikmin11]

Oh yeah, almost forgot about him, I guess I'll add him as the 4th Pokemon character.
Let's hopefully wait for Louie G. if he gets here.

 

[Tepig2000]

Not really. She's just popular mainly because of "waifu" status
Personally, i prefer the air we should discuss RoboBug

Both are fully evolved 3rd gen. Pokémon that have Mega Evolutions. Also Gardevoir is the champion's main Pokémon in X and Y.

 

[Tepig2000]

Not really. She's just popular mainly because of "waifu" status
Personally, i prefer the air we should discuss RoboBug

Edit: f**k you double post.

 

[Shorts]

Are we doing trainers?

Zoroark should be added without hesitation, but besides him I would say IF WE ARE doing new Trainers, Kalos could be the third. Then, finally we have Blaziken, Genesect, Gardevior, and Eevee.

Personally, I would like:Meowth, Zoro, Genesect, Kalos Trainer and if no Trainer, Eevee

 

[Tepig2000]

We aren't doing trainers.

 

[Shorts]

Why is that?

 

[BluePikmin11]

Not too sure exactly, mainly because Louie G. thinks a new Pokemon Trainer is very unlikely.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

It's not as if a new Trainer would be very unique, anyway. They'd just be stealing what the trainer in Brawl originated. Well, unless the trainer themselves actually fought. That'd be pretty nifty.

 

[El Fonz0]

Both are fully evolved 3rd gen. Pokémon that have Mega Evolutions. Also Gardevoir is the champion's main Pokémon in X and Y.

While the last one does give Gardevoir a small bit of importance(I guess), she's not really one of the poster children of Mega Evolution or a starter, nor extremely popular, imo

 

[Cpt.]

y'know
genesect

Nah genosect was banned to SS tier already.

 

[ToothiestAura]

Not really. She's just popular mainly because of "waifu" status
Personally, i prefer the air we should discuss RoboBug

Does the reason for the popularity matter?

But I already wrote of discussing Gardevoir a while ago.
Reasons:
-popular (not as much as blaziken, but still)
-Fairy typing
-Mega Evolution
- The pokemon of one of your rivals in Ruby/sapphire and the main pokemon of the champion of the most recent game.

It doesn't really matter if we discuss her, I just feel she has some unique options.

 

[Raetah]

What about Ranger?

 

[YoshiandToad]

Well, unless the trainer themselves actually fought. That'd be pretty nifty.

She's pretty unlikely though, especially as another psychic may step on the toes of the Mother boys and of course Mewtwo.

But goddamn; she can turn enemies into dolls! I'd love to see her crush an opponent with the Magnet Train from Saffron City by teleporting it in and then throwing it at them.

 

[Arcadenik]

And she's already a Pokeball, so I don't think we should pick her.

I don't support Gardevoir but that reasoning is flawed... Meowth is already a Pokeball Pokemon and we already discussed him... we got to be fair and discuss her.

I support Pokemon Trainer May with Mudkip, Grovyle, and Blaziken... or Deoxys.

Meowth have enough resources to be in A tier. People just don't want to see that character in the game, and I understand that. Is not the type of character that excites you when is revealed. In fact most of the reactions would be like "meh" or "ugh".

That's exactly what it all comes down to... people see a character they don't like, declare said character to be "not unique" or some other reason, but it is really a pretext.

Ridley gets this from the TooBigots... Dixie Kong gets this from the King K. Rool supporters... Toad gets this from the people who support other Mario characters and people who don't want any more Mario characters... Pac-Man and Mii get this from haters.... and so did Little Mac before he was confirmed.

 

[Bowserlick]

When Smash4 was first announced Victini seemed to be in competition with Zoroark among posters. Now both have fallen off the radar.

 

[Cpt.]

When Smash4 was first announced Victini seemed to be in competition with Zoroark among posters. Now both have fallen off the radar.

Idk maybe Lucario's reveal got everyone's hopes down? Although I can see how this may effect gen 5 pokes, I still think it actually helps Mewtwo's chances.

 

[Shorts]

Zoroark still has a fanbase, it's just of actual fans, and less "He's in bc relevance". So it's smaller than it once was. Victini on the other hand has fallen with the likes of the rest of the Pokemon. Around the same popularity as Gardevior, Genesect, Mew, ect. The only outstanding characters (who aren't trainers) are, or have already been in playable, BESIDES: Blaziken, Eevee, and Zoroark. At least on my poll.

With that being said, I don't think we should completely base our choices off of popularity. Genesect would be a super cool Pokemon, and besides Zoroark, he's the next Pokemon I'd really like to see discussed. Lastly, I think a Trainer is more likely than ANY Pokemon choice besides Mewtwo at this point, if only for the reason that PT has yet to be shown off, and Mewtwo seems inevitable as our 5th Pokemon. Especially since Mew2King hinted at him.

 

[BluePikmin11]

What Mew2King did? O.o
And I think we should end this day soon, could someone average the grades here, I'm not a pro at the math department.

 

[Shorts]

Mewtwo king is boasting he has the in. He said he knew about Mac, was getting the game early, and said something along the lines of "Mewtwo may be in Smash 4" or something.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Well that better be true, that comment alone is making me really pumped now. :O

 

[Cpt.]

Mewtwo king is boasting he has the in. He said he knew about Mac, was getting the game early, and said something along the lines of "Mewtwo may be in Smash 4" or something.

All the true God of Pokemon!

Spoiler

 

[Depressed Gengar]

Eh, Meowth isn't the most interesting Pokémon choice, but he's interesting enough. B for me.
Edit: Holy $hit 1,999th post! Just one more until 2,000!

 

[SuperBrawler]

Eh, Meowth isn't the most interesting Pokémon choice, but he's interesting enough. B for me.
Edit: Holy $hit 1,999th post! Just one more until 2,000!

I'd also give him a B.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Looks like Louie G. may be inactive for a while, looks like we'll unfortunately have to wait for him to end the day.

 

[Louie G.]

Here I am, but not for long.
For now, Meowth day is over. The list is not updated but I will get to that when I have the time.
Pokeweek will be an ongoing thing now, instead of singling out days.
We should rate Zoroark, Genesect, Victini, Blaziken, Gardevior, and Hawlucha.
Maybe more if I get back ahead of schedule. Which I very well might.

 

[ToothiestAura]

So, is everyone on board with discussing Zoroark and Genesect today? Seems a bit easier than trying to discuss everyone at once.

We could even sneak in Victini as well if you think we can discuss three at once and knock out all three big 5th gen contenders.

 

[BluePikmin11]

I think Zoroark's abilities to create illusions is very unique, but the transformation part of his gimmick isn't needed. But making possible clones of himself or making illusional attacks that seem huge is very unique, I think I would put him in A tier.

 

[FirstBlade]

I'm feeling a little lazy so I have no idea if I'm doing full character analyses today for Zoroark and Genesect but I think I agree with BluePikmin11 for Zoroark as A Tier. Also, can someon please tell me how to add sigs? I would like to show my support....before the character is confirmed (like Little Mac ).

 

[Cpt.]

I think Zoroark's abilities to create illusions is very unique, but the transformation part of his gimmick isn't needed. But making possible clones of himself or making illusional attacks that seem huge is very unique, I think I would put him in A tier.

Yeah I agree Zoroark has potential to go very high. At least a B+

 

[Louie G.]

Alrighty, so I'm back, and Meowth is getting a B.
Stick with this format though, I kinda like it.

 

[Louie G.]

Sorry for the double post, but I feel that Zoroark has the potential to be up top on the tier list...
IF someone can explain how Illusion would work in Smash. If they can't then meh.

 

[Cpt.]

Sorry for the double post, but I feel that Zoroark has the potential to be up top on the tier list...
IF someone can explain how Illusion would work in Smash. If they can't then meh.

It would be cool if an illusion made it look like Zoroark is charging a smash attack, when really you are invisible and moving somewhere else.

 

[Tepig2000]

So, we will do Zoroark and Genesect? Okay then, I will do Zoroark.

1. How many diverse options does this character have?

Zoroark has her illusion ability, which let's her disguise as anyone, and create fake copies of herself. She could start the fight disguised as one of the enemies, and turn back to normal after taking around 50% damage. She could also create clones, and if an enemy attacks one of her clones, she instantly teleports where the enemy is and slashes the enemy, kinda like a ranged version of Lucario's Double Team. Her attacks could also have more range than they look like. Aside from that, she can slash and bite, and since she is dark type, she would use darkness in her attacks. These aren't unique however, since a lot of characters can slash and bite, and Ganondorf already has darkness attacks.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?

Yes. No character already in the roster can disguise as others and create fake copies. However, her A moves might end up being somewhat similiar to what other characters have.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before?

No. Creating copies, having attacks with more range than they look like and disguising as enemies has never been done before.

4. Does the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?

Personally, I do think trickying enemies into thinking they are avoiding my attacks/are attacking me when they aren't is really entertaining.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?

Some could compare her to Mewtwo and Lucario, but she is nothing like them. She has a long red hair and different body shape.

6. Does it fit the character well enough?

Yes, she would fit very well, since she is a Pokémon.

She gets a middle/high A from me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Here's my special moves moveset:
Neutral-B: Shadow Ball: Zoroark throws off a quick ball of shadow to the opponent, the amount of power it has is slightly weaker than Lucario's and does not do as much knockback, but you can also move and jump around quickly while Zoroark is charging up the Shadow Ball.

Side-B: NIght Slash: Zoroark rushes to make a quick but powerful claw attack to the opponent, create a fake large claw to fool the opponent. Due to its power, the hitbox for this is small.

Up-B: Bounce: Zoroark gains a high vertical recovery by bouncing real high, then crashing down to the ground for hard damage and knockback. This move also has a small hitbox, so be careful where you aim.

Down-B: Double Team: Zoroark creates two illusionated version of himself that surround the real Zoroark, copying his every action he does. Though the illusionated ones can't do damage the opponent. A neat trick you can do with Double Team is that if you roll dodge to the left, the real Zoroark is quickly moved to where the left illusionated Zoroark is, where the middle Zoroark becomes the illusionated one. This should be heavily used in battle so that you can trick your opponents and have them keep guessing.

 

[ToothiestAura]

I think Zoroark's abilities to create illusions is very unique, but the transformation part of his gimmick isn't needed. But making possible clones of himself or making illusional attacks that seem huge is very unique, I think I would put him in A tier.

I'd have to agree. Though I haven't played the 5th generation Pokemon games nor have I seen the movie starring Zoroark I can see some uses for illusory abilities. The idea I had was something along the line of his specials involving illusion copies of himself. Summoning a copy through Special input (B). The copy will disappear after sustaining a small amount of damage. The copy would follow all the movements of Zoroark. Once the copy is already out pressing B again will have the copy and the real Zoroark switch places, allowing for mind games and allowing Zoroark to retreat back into relative safety after performing an attack. The rest of his specials could change slightly based on whether or not you had copies out. Of course, this is just one idea.
All of his Specials could focus on illusion and confusion, giving many ways to attack, retreat and zone. This coupled with the ability to use Zorua could be very interesting (one of the illusion could actually be Zorua or something).
I'd have to give her a high A+, possibly even S.

 

[Tepig2000]

This is my idea for how Illusion would work. It would be her neutral special:

Zoroark creates a copy of herself. The copy copies every single action Zoroark does with a half-second delay, kinda like Nana. Pressing the special button when there is already a copy makes the real Zoroark switch placeswith the copy, but there is no visual effect, so it is impossible for the enemy to guess which one is the real Zoroark. If the enemy attacks the copy, the copy dissapears and Zoroark appears behind the enemy, attacking with a powerful slash.

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

While such a "illusory copy" playstyle would certainly be unique, I don't think Zoroark would be the right character to take on this style. Zoroark's Illusion is more about Zoroark taking on the appearance of something else, not creating copies of itself.

 

[Tepig2000]

While such a "illusory copy" playstyle would certainly be unique, I don't think Zoroark would be the right character to take on this style. Zoroark's Illusion is more about Zoroark taking on the appearance of something else, not creating copies of itself.

Still, it does not look awkward. Sure, the Ice Climbers never created icebergs in their game, but it fits them. Zoroark never created copies of herself, but it fits her.

Do you understand my point?

 

[BridgesWithTurtles]

Pp

Still, it does not look awkward. Sure, the Ice Climbers never created icebergs in their game, but it fits them. Zoroark never created copies of herself, but it fits her.

Do you understand my point?

Of course I do. I still don't think that Zoroark's playstyle should use illusory clones as its centerpiece, though. It's a good move to have, but it wouldn't be Zoroark if it couldn't take on the enemy's appearance. It's what the character is known for. Imagine if Lucario didn't use Aura Sphere in Smash, but nothing else were different. All of its moves would still "make sense", but it'd certainly be missing a major component.

 

[Bowserlick]

Zoroark
(I am using BluePikmin11's questions)

1. How many diverse options does this character have?
Zoroark is an unique case. I think Zoroark has potential to be fairly unique with illusions and tricky Dark type moves. But do these type of moves actually lend themselves to be useful in a fighting game? Or are they all flash with very little pay-off? However, this thread is not so much concerned about balance. So let us dig into the meat of the flavor discussion:

Zoroark has plenty of options. I think she wants to rely on strategy based off her illusions. So how can we make her illusion ability accurate to the series and useful? I suggest slapping her Illusions onto her taunt D-pad. Thus, they do not waste a slot (because I know the ability could be cool, but would be difficult to make extremely useful). The left, right, and up taunts can disguise her into one of her opponents in a free-for-all (each button mapped to a specific enemy). She would retain her stats while looking like and performing as the enemy. The enemies specials would become Zoroark's specials. The down taunt would disguise her as a random character from the roster.

Here are some specials she might be able to have:
B Night Daze: Collects purple energy to form an orb she holds with her claws. Storable. Unlike other energy spheres, she cannot shoot the orb. Rather she plunges into into the ground to create a splash of purple energy that does damage. If the opponent is extremely close, they will be stunned. If used from the air, she will go straight down to smash the orb into an enemy or the floor of the stage.

Down B Substitute: Flips backwards leaving a copy of herself. If the copy is hit with an attack, the opponent will be briefly stunned. The illusion does not last long. Useful to mix this in with her rolls to bait her enemy into attacking the illusion.

Up B Feint Attack: Pauses in the air with a purple force field of shadow energy around her that can absorb a light attack as she sends a clone copy out in any direction (slightly shorter than Firefox). The clone can pass through walls. On a press of B, Zoroark will vanish and take the place of her clone (doing moderate damage if the clone is overlapped with an enemy). The switch will not work if the clone is mostly overlapped with the stage.

Side B Shadow Claw: Claws glow purple. If used without a charge, Zoroark goes in a straight path and slashes at the end doing some damage. BUT if charged, Zoroark goes less far and her slash becomes more powerful. This move is a mirror of her forward Smash.

Forward Smash Hone Claws: Similar to Wolf's forward Smash. Except the longer she charges, the further she goes and the weaker the attack becomes. Mirror of her Shadow Claw.

2. Is their moves or abilities diverse from the rest of the Smash cast?
Her clones and Illusions are quite different from the rest of the cast.

3. Has the concept of the character been done before? If it has been done before, is the character's way of doing it unique on it's own?
I do not think that a character based on tricks has been fully realized. She would be the first of her kind.

4. Is the character's abilities and moves provide enough to be entertaining?
Entertaining? Yes. Useful for battle? Maybe, but that would take some work on the developers' side.

5. How visually different is the character in terms of body shape and looks?
She is a fox and a pokemon, but looks different enough from Fox McCloud and her Pokemon peers. Plus, she adds Dark type to the types represented in Smash as playable characters.

6. Does it fit the character well enough?
Creatively she fits in just fine.

Grade (Uniqueness): A
Her Illusions and trick-inspired moveset can really make her a character in a yet fully explored niche. Her A moves can use shadow effects to add visual appeal.