The Ultimate Antagonist Thread (Talking About The Villains Trend)

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Great list, just wanted to add on though.

Apparently Glacta Knight is a color for Meta Knight already, which is why I left him off the list. Great pick, but probably not likely due to the color.

Also, why not make Black Shadow just old school Ganondorf, that way we can keep the slow Captain Falcon type play style, but on a much more fitting character. Sort of how Doctor Mario was put in to please people who like Mario’s Melee move set.

Love the rest of the picks though, would absolutely love Masked Man as he has a cool design. Thanks for bringing these to my attention too, these are superb picks.



Maybe? So far echos are characters from their series, so I doubt they’d lay a Mother character over a Pokémon, but this is Sakurai (the same man who made Ganondorf a Captain Falcon clone) so anything is possible.

I'd still be in favor of Galacta knight as an Echo Fighter; DUE To the fact that he has ANGELIC Wings and A Shield & a Lance instead of Bat Wings, and a Sword; so It still doesn't leave him out of the question, especially for potential Future Titles; Plus Since they had Pit & Dark Pit with Alternate Colorations Based off of each other; AND So Do Kirby & Meta Knight; Why couldn't Galacta Knight have alternate Colorations based off of Meta Knight, OR Kirby?!
I Agree, Black Shadow SHOULD Be Brawl/SSB4 Ganondorf
also It WOULD be Fitting for Masked man to share the same Moveset as lucas, though Instead of using a wooden Stick for his Smash Attacks, He could use his Laser Sword

 

[Captain Shades]

Wario wasn't under the influence of treasure any more than he ever is. Besides, the treasure was just an absurdly decorative chamber pot.

Wario's not really ever done anything just to be selfless. He's only in it for money, and the only reason he was an antihero in Wario Land was because he was fighting a pirate no better than he was. In WarioWare, however, he's crossed back over to antivillain in the vein of Dilbert's pointy-haired boss.

Maybe the answer is that Wario is just weird, I don’t believe he’s a full on villain or hero in any sense. Wario has actually been selfless believe it or not, as he did help Mario in Super Mario 64 DS for absolutely no reason, maybe cake, but that’s it.

Wario also got a giant Peach statue worth millions in Wario Land, but had it stolen from him by Mario, afterwards Wario is given a single wish, but instead of taking revenge on Mario, he just asks for a small house to live in.

In Wario Land 4, Wario released the spirit of Princess Shokora who was trapped in a pyramid for years.

Wario has done good as he’s always been a morally grey character, so calling him a villain seems wrong to me as he is nothing compared to Bowser or Ganondorf. And definitely nothing compared to Ridley.

 

[Seanp12]

Well, yeah, if you're comparing repeated thefts and money laundering to mass murder, regicide, and intergalactic conquest, of course he's going to seem a lot better.

EDIT: Don't forget his collaboration with Tabuu, either.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Akuma is a bad dude who will be an easy echo. Also Raging Demon final smash makes him worth it.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Wario wasn't under the influence of treasure any more than he ever is. Besides, the treasure was just an absurdly decorative chamber pot.

Wario's not really ever done anything just to be selfless. He's only in it for money, and the only reason he was an antihero in Wario Land was because he was fighting a pirate no better than he was. In WarioWare, however, he's crossed back over to antivillain in the vein of Dilbert's pointy-haired boss.

Only Wario could gain a psychosomatic super form. Then again, he's powered up in the Land series by doing weirder stuff.

As for other franchise villains, leaving out 3rd parties

Kirby: I think he'll be fine with his frienemies Meta Knight and DDD
Yoshi: Well... If you squint a bit Bowser Jr looks like Baby Bowser... maybe... Kamek perhaps?
Pokemon: Well Mewtwo and Greninja technically fill the role of antagonist and we're not getting Meowth any time soon.

F-Zero: Black Shadow Echo looks like the best bet.
Earthbound: With the soft reveal of Adventure Mode, I think Porky will come back as a full boss.

Ice Climbers: They tamed the condor and that Polar Bear is stage hazarding it up on summit.
Fire Emblem: Given the trend of mii costumes, the Black Knight would be awesome as either a character or a boss. Grima may work as a Robin alt with different voice lines but I don't see it.
G&W: G&W is the hero, the villain, the bystanders and the props. Game and Watch IS!

Wario: As much as I'd love to see Captain Syrup return, I think we'll have to accept "Wario on bad day" for now. Scary thought: Rudy the Clown as adventure boss.
Kid Icarus: If you don't count Dark Pit, Medusa could make a good Echo of Palutena, especially when Palutena has so many spare customs left over to use.
Pikmin: Hmmm... tricky. I could make a moveset for a playable Bulborb but I think we'll leave this one with an adventure mode boss.
ROB: Virtual Boy...?

Animal Crossing: ... Anyone know how to make capitalsim a moveset?
Wii Fit: I can't think of a moveset for life. Maybe a boss based on one of those mini-games?
Punch-Out: Where's King Hippo!?
Mii: Just make one look like someone you hate.
Xenoblade: Looks like the main baddie of Xenoblade 2 is getting some traction on the webs. Not sure if it'd be too late tho.
Duck Hunt: Already playing the hero, villain and victim in one.

Splatoon: Octoling Echo

ARMS: Dr. Coyle with Headlok final smash (I CAN DREAM!)

 

[RayaGRH]

I think an Octoling echo is certainly most likely at this point. I would love to see Medusa though, perhaps she can borrow some of Palutena's discarded custom moves and become somewhat of a pseudo-echo. Kamek is probably my first choice though... as obscure as he may seem, he would really be the final villain of the original 8. Plus, great potential for a unique fighter.

ETA: And Skull Kid of course!

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Medusa would make a great unique newcomer (or an echo who uses powers differently from Palutena)...but Viridi is also wanted by me (she’s atleast in the middle at worst)

 

[Seanp12]

Animal Crossing: ... Anyone know how to make capitalsim a moveset?

Hmmm...

Spoiler

 

[Captain Shades]

I would love for the return of Adventure Mode bosses.

Petey anyone?

Actually this is a good discussion point, even if these characters aren’t playable, they can still be bosses, any ideas for potential boss villains to join the Yellow Devil, Rathalos, Dracula, and Metal Face?

My guesses would be as follows

Petey Piranha (Super Mario Sunshine) - He was a boss in Brawl, and was supposed to be one in Wii U, so why not have him return here.

King Boo (Luigi’s Mansion) - Being the main antagonist of Luigi, King Boo could make for an interesting boss, maybe he hides in a giant Bowser suit and you have to beat him out.

Kamek (Yoshi’s Island) - With many magical powers, Kamek could control the stage while flying around the fighters.

The Guardian (Breath of the Wild) - These giant machines were practically staples of the game, so having that iconic “I’m going to die” music followed by the giant beast rampaging towards you with lasers would be cool.

Kraid (Metroid) - They already have a model, so why not make this secondary iconic enemy a real boss to go up against.

Porky (EarthBound) - He was already in Brawl, so he’d be returning like Petey.

The Eggman Mech (Sonic 2) - A challenging Eggman battle that has been remembered fondly, I think it’s time this mech returns again in Smash Bros.

Fortitudo (Bayonetta) - He’s already in her stage, so they could easily make him a full on boss

The Metal Gears (Metal Gear Solid Franchise) - The giant robots could make for an interesting encounter.

Lord Frederick (Tropical Freeze) - Lets at least give an honorable role to the newest DK villain, Lord Frederick could make for an amazing boss encounter

These are just a few ideas I had for that topic.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Animal Crossing: ... Anyone know how to make capitalsim a moveset?

His name is Tom Nook.

 

[Zinith]

Since Kamek might be disconfirmed due to the reveal of Mushroom Kingdom U, I put out a suggestion that Boshi could be Yoshi's rival...

God, Yoshi always gets the short end of the stick...

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Passing by to say that I love the attention for villains in the game. It was about time they had attention recently.

 

[Captain Shades]

Since Kamek might be disconfirmed due to the reveal of Mushroom Kingdom U, I put out a suggestion that Boshi could be Yoshi's rival...

God, Yoshi always gets the short end of the stick...

Why does Yoshi even need a villain, he’s pretty evil himself, committing Tax Fraud and such.

 

[TMNTSSB4]

Why does Yoshi even need a villain, he’s pretty evil himself, committing Tax Fraud and such.

That just means we need the Tax (Wo)Man for Smash

 

[Sint]

After Kamek apparently disconfirmation, I can Raphael the fat raven as the villain.
Mother really needs THE MASKED MAN, he's unique and cooler than Ninten, Ninten is practically the sames as Ness. Porky could only be an adventure mode boss.
Black Shadow the F- Zero.
and with that the 12 veterans will all have a "rival"
(I would also would love to see King Boo. On the "rivals" trailer luigi is not on Bowser- Mario scene, so Luigi maybe is getting a rival this time)

 

[Captain Shades]

After Kamek apparently disconfirmation, I can Raphael the fat raven as the villain.
Mother really needs THE MASKED MAN, he's unique and cooler than Ninten, Ninten is practically the sames as Ness. Porky could only be an adventure mode boss.
Black Shadow the F- Zero.
and with that the 12 veterans will all have a "rival"
(I would also would love to see King Boo. On the "rivals" trailer luigi is not on Bowser- Mario scene, so Luigi maybe is getting a rival this time)

If the original 12 are getting rivals, I guess we need Meowth for Pikachu. Honestly, I agree though, we need villains from all the major franchises that have them, being;

Super Mario Bros.
Donkey Kong Country
Yoshi’s Island
The Legend of Zelda
Kirby
Pokémon
Fire Emblem
Metroid
F-Zero
Mother/EarthBound

Really we are only missing antagonists from Yoshi, Fire Emblem, Mother, and F-Zero. I guess you could say Yoshi has Bowser and Jr., but eh. I would love to see Black Shadow, the Masked Man, and the Black Knight all join as major antagonists of their respective franchises.

Also, I think King Boo would have a good shot at being a boss in the same vain as Rathalos.

 

[Blue7113]

I feel like the villain trend is only relevant to the original 64 group as the K. Rool trailer only showed members of the original eight fighting their villain. So, to me at least, characters like Medusa seem unlikely.

I feel like it would be hard to incorporate a Pokémon villain. No Pokémon is inherently bad and there are multiple of each species. Even Meowth is only evil in the anime and is just a normal Pokémon in the games.

Anyways for F-Zero, Black Shadow could easily be a Captain Falcon clone. And for Earthbound Masked Man would be amazing, but very unlikely. I can see Porky returning as a boss though. I don’t know about Yoshi though as Kamek is deconfirmed. Boshi seems...unlikely, to say the least, but if Geno gets in then maybe?

 

[SvartWolf]

i think that more like the team concentrating on villians, and being the underling directing trend, The team is instead concentrating on popular characters with fanbases... that lot's of them HAPPENS to be Villians/rivals.

Then after seeing the trend, and seewing the roster have tons of rivals, they may decide to put a heroes versus villians theme on top of that.

 

[Arcadenik]

If the original 12 are getting rivals, I guess we need Meowth for Pikachu. Honestly, I agree though, we need villains from all the major franchises that have them, being;

You are goddamn right!

Just imagine... Team Rocket as the Pokémon newcomer! Jessie and James would stay in the background like Pokémon Trainer. We play as Meowth. Arbok, Weezing, and maybe Wobbuffet are part of Meowth's moveset and they team up with him to do many different moves.

Meowth has limbs so he is the playable fighter. Arbok and Weezing have no limbs so they are part of Meowth's moveset. Wobbuffet has limbs but it cannot throw the first punch so it is only good as a counter/reflector.

Just imagine... this could be Team Rocket's victory screen.

 

[Captain Shades]

Arcadenik Every time Meowth gets tossed off the stage, you just hear “Team Rocket is blasting off again”

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Maybe the answer is that Wario is just weird, I don’t believe he’s a full on villain or hero in any sense. Wario has actually been selfless believe it or not, as he did help Mario in Super Mario 64 DS for absolutely no reason, maybe cake, but that’s it.

Wario also got a giant Peach statue worth millions in Wario Land, but had it stolen from him by Mario, afterwards Wario is given a single wish, but instead of taking revenge on Mario, he just asks for a small house to live in.

In Wario Land 4, Wario released the spirit of Princess Shokora who was trapped in a pyramid for years.

Wario has done good as he’s always been a morally grey character, so calling him a villain seems wrong to me as he is nothing compared to Bowser or Ganondorf. And definitely nothing compared to Ridley.

He's still a Greedy fat B*stard who refuses to pay his Employees!

 

[Miifighters4Smash5]

Why does Yoshi even need a villain, he’s pretty evil himself, committing Tax Fraud and such.

No He doesn't; When in the Underwhere does Yoshi do such a thing, in a Nintendo-Released Medium(If there is any proof and it's not by Nintendo, it doesn't count)

Akuma is a bad dude who will be an easy echo. Also Raging Demon final smash makes him worth it.

either him, or Evil Ryu(an actual character: https://streetfighter.wikia.com/wiki/Evil_Ryu; Basically Ryu if he were to succumb to the Satsui no Hado; aka the surge of Murderous Intent; Could have Dark Red variations of Ryu's Moveset based off of the Satsui no Hado moves he can perform, and could be Buffed & Stronger version of Ryu. with More Sinister Idle Animations and more, INCLUDING Final Smashs)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Can can someone explain to me no one said skull kid yet?

As matter of fact his chances to shot the moon since he survived twice in assist trophy onslaught just like Isabelle

Ballot smells like goodness for him

The moon might be taking his place

And ofcoarse

HES A VILLIAN


Oh and heihachi is getting lack of mention as well since he's a villian and Namco could get him for the second rep

 

[Captain Shades]

Can can someone explain to me no one said skull kid yet?

As matter of fact his chances to shot the moon since he survived twice in assist trophy onslaught just like Isabelle

Ballot smells like goodness for him

The moon might be taking his place

And ofcoarse

HES A VILLIAN


Oh and heihachi is getting lack of mention as well since he's a villian and Namco could get him for the second rep

Umm.. Skull Kids been talked about quite a bit actually.

 

[DeadlyLampshade]

I'm gonna mirror the sentiment of everyone saying that Giegue / Giygas should be playable. Not only is he another mother rep, but he is a villain that is different from existing villains.

My headcanon is that Giegue is a lightweight glass cannon type fighter with unusual attacks. One of the things that would be clear with Giegue is how little he actually moves in order to perform attacks, for example, a lot of his attacks will take the form of inexplicable impulses around him. (Giving credence to the fact that their forms are impossible to grasp)

This is in contrast to a lot of the villains who all look physically strong, Giegue looks like a more frail mewtwo and will be a lighter weight class than him

 

[Gooper Blooper]

I'm just going to throw in Plasm Wraith. I love Villains. I love Pikmin. I really wish Pikmin had more love, though I know it is less important than a lot of other franchises.

But in regards to characters with a chance, if Kamek is deconfirmed (And my other 3 top picks were already confirmed as in) I guess my top villain picks are Skull Kid, Pig Ganon, and Medusa (never played Kid Icarus, but she has a cool design and I think every franchise deserves a villain)

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

No matter his chances; I'll always stand by that Porky would be a fantastic addition to the cast. A little tyrannical brat in a mech. His alt costume potential alone is through the roof. He's Nintendo's Cartman, basically.

 

[Captain Shades]

I'm just going to throw in Plasm Wraith. I love Villains. I love Pikmin. I really wish Pikmin had more love, though I know it is less important than a lot of other franchises.

But in regards to characters with a chance, if Kamek is deconfirmed (And my other 3 top picks were already confirmed as in) I guess my top villain picks are Skull Kid, Pig Ganon, and Medusa (never played Kid Icarus, but she has a cool design and I think every franchise deserves a villain)

Pikmin is a big franchise and totally deserves another rep, Miyamoto himself thinks Pikmin could be a Mario and seems to be pushing the franchise hard

Honestly, I can see 3 picks make it as there is evidence for Skull Kid, Pig Ganon is another version of Ganondorf and Sakurai loves to have multiple versions of Zelda characters, and Sakurai loves Kid Icarus, so I can easily see Medusa.

One other idea is Dark Metaknight, the Bandana Dee community seems to think he has a shot as an echo, so maybe he can make it.

No matter his chances; I'll always stand by that Porky would be a fantastic addition to the cast. A little tyrannical brat in a mech. His alt costume potential alone is through the roof. He's Nintendo's Cartman, basically.

I would love Porky, but with the confirmation that bosses are coming back thanks to Rathalos, I believe Porky will have the same role he had in Brawl.

I'm gonna mirror the sentiment of everyone saying that Giegue / Giygas should be playable. Not only is he another mother rep, but he is a villain that is different from existing villains.

My headcanon is that Giegue is a lightweight glass cannon type fighter with unusual attacks. One of the things that would be clear with Giegue is how little he actually moves in order to perform attacks, for example, a lot of his attacks will take the form of inexplicable impulses around him. (Giving credence to the fact that their forms are impossible to grasp)

This is in contrast to a lot of the villains who all look physically strong, Giegue looks like a more frail mewtwo and will be a lighter weight class than him

Cool idea, then he can traumatize me again by having a Final Smash that’s EarthBound’s version, with the Happy text and all.

No He doesn't; When in the Underwhere does Yoshi do such a thing, in a Nintendo-Released Medium(If there is any proof and it's not by Nintendo, it doesn't count)

Brah, it was a joke, people make fake Switch games like Yoshi commits tax fraud, or Kirby does his taxes. I was just referencing a meme.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Cool idea, then he can traumatize me again by having a Final Smash that’s EarthBound’s version, with the Happy text and all.

It is confirmed: Ultimate will be the first Smash with an M rating.

 

[Captain Shades]

It is confirmed: Ultimate will be the first Smash with an M rating.

I guess Bayonetta can finally strip, and Snake...ohhh...the potential.

Also Toad says F$ck

 

[neoREgen]

Most wanted:
Pig Ganon (I’d be very shocked and happy)
Fawful (admittedly, I never played the Mario and Luigi games, but he looks really cool)
Medusa (echo, primarily because I already main Palutena and would love more options )
Dry Bowser (echo that gets closer to Melee moveset)
Dr. Robotnik / Eggman (dare I dream? if in, probably adventure mode boss)
Dr. Wily (same, adventure mode)
Bokoblin / Moblin (why not use creature types?)

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

With K. Rool now in the game; I nominate Krow or Kleever for Adventure Mode bosses!

 

[Ninten DS]

For me the ideal next villain has to be Porky, even more so than Giegue, and I think it'd be the most rational choice for a next Earthbound/Mother rep:
-He has been in both Earthbound and Mother 3
-He's the only connection between Ness and Lucas, and so, between the stories of Earthbound and Mother 3
-He's part of the final boss in Earthbound, and he's the reason for EVERY SINGLE EVENT to happen in Mother 3
-He's the series' eternal villain, he'll never die, guess he could pay off all of that time fighting his old pals, literally, cuz of Ness

Most of my support is going to this fatty boy, I can totally see him becoming playable at this point after having Ridley and King K. Rool playable. If an adventure mode returns, I'd be satisfied to see him as a boss, but not as much if he was playable. The counters could be that Masked Man and Ninten are more likely since they'd be easier to implement, and Porky is so ****ing big, but I actually made this size comparision, to see how Porky could actually be in Smash Bros., both with his Earthbound and Mother 3 mechs (some notes: the Bowser model isn't the Brawl one, but I've checked in-game and the T-Pose seems to match completely fine with Ness, also I know Porky is older in Mother 3, but I wanted to do this comparision quick, still, the old Porky and regular Porky are the same size):

Porky could easily fit in, he would definitely be a LONG character, but not as large as Bowser, Ridley or King K. Rool if shrunk like in this image.
Porky for Ultimate bois.

 

[Vingag]

Okay, first: Meowth. I agree that Meowth would be a grade A choice for a pokemon rep, but he's already shown up as a Pokeball.

Next: Since when has Mewtwo been disconfirmed as a villain? Mewtwo seems like the best pokemon "villain". Otherwise: Ultra beasts.

I wholly support Porky making it into the game, he'd be fantastic in his spider robot. However I'm also of the mind that Ninten will probably be an echo of Ness, and even though I'd love for there to be four Mother series characters I've had my heart broken by Nintendo before in this regard.

Finally, I want to open this up to Smashboards Hivemind: Master Hand. What better villain to include than the villain of the entire Smash series itself, and it's not like we're lacking on moveset, Master Hand has four games worth of moves! And there are plenty of ways to work around the fact that Master Hand can fly, and Crazy hand could even show up as either an echo or an alt costume. What do you think, sirs?

 

[Ninten DS]

I wholly support Porky making it into the game, he'd be fantastic in his spider robot. However I'm also of the mind that Ninten will probably be an echo of Ness, and even though I'd love for there to be four Mother series characters I've had my heart broken by Nintendo before in this regard.

Finally, I want to open this up to Smashboards Hivemind: Master Hand. What better villain to include than the villain of the entire Smash series itself, and it's not like we're lacking on moveset, Master Hand has four games worth of moves! And there are plenty of ways to work around the fact that Master Hand can fly, and Crazy hand could even show up as either an echo or an alt costume. What do you think, sirs?

Master Hand as a playable character wouldn't quite fit for me. It'd be extremely weird to see Master Hand jumping, recovering and even doing standard attacks apart from the specials that he could easily get from the Smash Bros. games. Porky Minch is simply the most likely villain to get in for Earthbound, and Ninten as I heard wouldn't really fit with Ness since he isn't that of an offensive type, also due to his obscurity. The next Earthbound rep shall be Porky, only Porky can finish the Earthbound line-up, he's the essential character for an Earthbound rep. Hail the King P.

 

[Captain Shades]

Since when has Mewtwo been disconfirmed as a villain? Mewtwo seems like the best pokemon "villain". Otherwise: Ultra beasts.

The Pokémon Company confirmed that none of the Pokémon are evil outside of Team Rocket’s Meowth.

Mewtwo makes amends with Ash in Mewtwo Returns as the two have some-what of a partnership.

Also there’s Genesect and the Legend Awakened where Mewtwo helped Ash by trying to fight off the Red Genesect to protect all Pokémon.

Honestly, Mewtwo hasn’t been a villain since the First Pokémon Movie, which is why I took him off the list.

 

[Vingag]

The Pokémon Company confirmed that none of the Pokémon are evil outside of Team Rocket’s Meowth.

Mewtwo makes amends with Ash in Mewtwo Returns as the two have some-what of a partnership.

Also there’s Genesect and the Legend Awakened where Mewtwo helped Ash by trying to fight off the Red Genesect to protect all Pokémon.

Honestly, Mewtwo hasn’t been a villain since the First Pokémon Movie, which is why I took him off the list.

Wow, I'm really behind in Pokemon lore! Thanks for the correction!

 

[BlazGreen]

The lack of love for Dr. Eggman makes me sad. He is arguably the most iconic villain of the 16-bit era and is almost as recognizable as Bowser to a lot of people. I think a character like him should definitely make the cut regardless of the self imposed rules we've made up on character inclusions.

 

[Captain Shades]

The lack of love for Dr. Eggman makes me sad. He is arguably the most iconic villain of the 16-bit era and is almost as recognizable as Bowser to a lot of people. I think a character like him should definitely make the cut regardless of the self imposed rules we've made up on character inclusions.

There has been plenty of support for Eggman, I just imagine most see him as unlikely due to being another Sonic rep, and one that is harder to implement than say Shadow a much more popular character. I would imagine that Metal Sonic could be a good substitute as he can easily be a Sonic echo fighter.

Master Hand as a playable character wouldn't quite fit for me. It'd be extremely weird to see Master Hand jumping, recovering and even doing standard attacks apart from the specials that he could easily get from the Smash Bros. games. Porky Minch is simply the most likely villain to get in for Earthbound, and Ninten as I heard wouldn't really fit with Ness since he isn't that of an offensive type, also due to his obscurity. The next Earthbound rep shall be Porky, only Porky can finish the Earthbound line-up, he's the essential character for an Earthbound rep. Hail the King P.

Is Ninten really that obscure? His game was literally brought over to the West like two years ago, so he can’t be that much of a stretch. I agree though, Porky would make for an amazing villain and would be my most wanted EarthBound rep. Masked Man would be cool as well though.

 

[Cetus]

Shulk...

Spoiler: Spoilers for Xenoblade 1

Since Robin getting a Grima costume counts as a villain, what if Shulk got a Zanza costume? Would that count as well since Shulk is supposed to be a vassal of Zanza.