The Ultimate Antagonist Thread (Talking About The Villains Trend)

Captain Shades

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The last Smash followed a trend in the form of including characters that were female to the roster, as many complained about the lack of female fighters in prior entries. This Smash seems to be following up on addressing complaints, with them including more villains to the roster as the lack of villains in Smash was a big complaint in Smash 4. This thread will discuss Smash’s villains, mainly the idea that we may get more coming soon, letting everyone on SmashBoards let out their evil side once and for all, as we talk about nothing but villainy. My question to you is where does Smash go from here when it comes to villain representation?

To put things in perspective here’s the villains list for every Smash, before we did into Ultimate

Melee
1) Bowser
2) Ganondorf
3) Mewtwo? (Was a villain in the anime at that time, but is also a normal Pokémon)

Brawl
1) Bowser [Returning]
2) Ganondorf [Returning]
3) Wario? (Was a villain in Super Mario Land 2, but became more of an anti-hero afterwards)
4) King Dedede? (The main antagonist of Kirby, but he did become a hero down the line)
5) Meta Knight? (Another Kirby antagonist that ended up becoming a hero)
6) Wolf? (One of the antagonists of Star Fox, he did help Fox in Assault though, and looked to become a hero)

Wii U and 3DS
1) Bowser [Returning]
2) Bowser Jr. + Koopalings
3) Ganondorf [Returning]
4) King Dedede? [Returning]
5) Meta Knight? [Returning]
6) Wario? [Returning]
7) Mewtwo? [Returning through DLC]



Returning Villains Thoughts (Do They Still Qualify In Ultimate?)
Before we get into the new villains in Ultimate, I want to clean up the villains list, so we have a clear idea of how many returning villains are coming to Ultimate, as many have became Heroes now, so labeling them as villains seems wrong. On the other hand, some have become villains again, getting rid of the question mark by their name.

Bowser & Bowser Jr. - They are both still villains, even more so now a days as Mario RPGs that usually make Bowser help Mario have really gone back to make sure he is the main antagonist by the end. Jr. is no different in that sense, as every appearance has him being a villain with his dad, so these two are staying as villains.

Ganondorf - He’s a villain. There hasn’t been a single appearance of Ganondorf where he is good, unless he is defending women’s rights in RelaxAlax videos. Joking aside Ganondorf is the definition of being a villain, so no changes need to be made to his status.

King Dedede & Meta Knight - They are off the villain list. Neither has done anything antagonistic since Super Star unless they are possessed, and most of the time they help Kirby in modern titles. I find it funny how Sakurai portrayed Meta Knight as evil in the King’s reveal, when he himself made Meta Knight a hero in Brawl’s Subspace mode along with Dedede.

Wario - He is off the villain list. He was only ever evil in one title, and that was Super Mario Land 2. He was an antagonist in the GameCube’s Mario sports titles, but modern titles have him being just another member of the cast or possessed, so I don’t think he qualifies as a villain.

Mewtwo - Another one that’s off the villain list. Mewtwo has been portrayed in mainly good to neutral at worst stances in the anime after his movie. Even Pokken made a separate evil Mewtwo, so Mewtwo could be a good guy. Ultimately, Mewtwo is a Pokémon, so there’s no definitive stance on if it’s evil or not anymore.

Wolf - Back on the villain list. Star Fox Zero rebooted the franchise and made him fully evil again, so there’s no question on his stance anymore.

In total we have 4 Returning villains as of right now, so finally lets discuss Ultimate



Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s Villains
Just like Wii U did for female characters, Ultimate seems to be targeting criticisms about the lack of true villains in Smash, as Wii U only really had 3 actual villains in its roster. With that in mind we mine as well look at Ultimate’s villain roster and discuss how it could be expanded

The new villain roster is as follows:
1) Bowser [Returning]
2) Ganondorf [Returning]
3) Wolf [Returning]
4) Bowser Jr. [Returning]
5) Ridley
6) Dark Samus
7) King K. Rool

As you see we have 7 villains right now, but my guess is that this roster will be expanded upon with a few new villains, so here’s my list for potential new villains, but feel free to discuss yours below.

1) Octolings (Splatoon) - A popular set of villains from a new IP, and they function almost identically to the Inklings. The Octolings would make for an easy echo to the Inklings that can increase the villain roster, while adding a new face.

2) Grima (Fire Emblem) - Robin is Grima, so a simple alt with purple smoke emitting from Robin and some darker voice lines could be an easy way to include this giant evil entity from Awakening. Plus Robin’s new final Smash could be summoning Grima in the dragon form.

3) Hades (Kid Icarus) - People love this character, and we know Sakurai loves Kid Icarus. Hades has a very unique personality that would suit him well in Smash and he has many powers to make him unique if they included him. Plus he would be a new face in the villain roster.

4) Pig Ganon (The Legend of Zelda) - All of the main 3 Zelda characters have alternate forms, but Ganon is the only one to not have a secondary form in Smash. If Ganon was to get a secondary form, than his original pig form would make sense and add to the game as it’d have to have an original move set.

5) Demise (The Legend of Zelda) - He’s literally the predecessor to Ganondorf, so he can obviously just be a Ganondorf echo.

6) The Black Knight (Fire Emblem) - For being a big franchise, FE is still yet to get a villain in Smash, but if it did get one, then The Black Knight would be a perfect pick. He is the most well known FE villain, and he even had a Mii Costume in 4, so he may have a chance at being FE’s villain rep.

7) Metal Sonic (Sonic The Hedgehog) - While Shadow may be the popular echo pick, we can’t forget about Metal, who has more history and can be a Sonic villain and echo. I remember a leak that detailed Metal Sonic as a Sonic alt in the 4 days, so hey, anything could happen.

8) Porky (EarthBound/Mother) - The main antagonist of two titles, Porky definitely has a history of being a villain, so maybe he can make it as the Mother villain, especially if he can use the vehicle that was already in Brawl.

9) Black Shadow (F-Zero) - Give him Ganondorf’s old move set, then bam, you got yourself a cool new villain to play as as well as a second F-Zero rep.

Well, that concludes this thread, I’d love to see some new villain ideas below. I believe we will be seeing more villains in Ultimate, but who is the question, so leave your thoughts below, on potential new villains or if we’ll even see more at all.
 

GoodGrief741

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Definitely not my idea, but Giegue (Giygas’ form in MOTHER) might work as a Mewtwo Echo, and there’s also the possibility of the Masked Man.
 

Miifighters4Smash5

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Here's Some Ideas I Have for Villain Characters they could introduce:
A. Black Shadow(Captain Falcon Echo Fighter)
B. Malos from Xenoblade Chronicles 2(Shulk Echo Fighter, due to both using Monado Arts)
C. Galacta Knight[Meta Knight Echo Fighter; Since He's Been Fought OFTEN As A Boss, from Superstar Ultra to Planet Robobot; while Being Possessed by a Butterfly in Star Allies, turning into Morpho Knight(Whom I Prefer to Refer to him as Beta Knight, due to his Resemblance To Meta Knight's Previously-Unused Beta Design) He's not on good terms with EITHER Kirby OR Meta Knight; so he MUST Be a Villain, if he opposes the Heroes of Dreamland]
D. Masked Man(Lucas Echo Fighter; since He's Lucas' Twin Brother Claus)
E. Hilda(Zelda's Echo Fighter; The Queen of Lorule; Who was a secondary Antagonist trying to steal Hyrule's Triforce to replace the Destroyed Lorulian Triforce, second ONLY to Yuga)
 
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Captain Shades

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Here's Some Ideas I Have for Villain Characters they could introduce:
A. Black Shadow(Captain Falcon Echo Fighter)
B. Malos from Xenoblade Chronicles 2(Shulk Echo Fighter, due to both using Monado Arts)
C. Galacta Knight[Meta Knight Echo Fighter; Since He's Been Fought OFTEN As A Boss, from Superstar Ultra to Planet Robobot; while Being Possessed by a Butterfly in Star Allies, turning into Morpho Knight(Whom I Prefer to Refer to him as Beta Knight, due to his Resemblance To Meta Knight's Previously-Unused Beta Design) He's not on good terms with EITHER Kirby OR Meta Knight; so he MUST Be a Villain, if he opposes the Heroes of Dreamland]
D. Masked Man(Lucas Echo Fighter; since He's Lucas' Twin Brother Claus)
E. Hilda(Zelda's Echo Fighter; The Queen of Lorule; Who was a secondary Antagonist trying to steal Hyrule's Triforce to replace the Destroyed Lorulian Triforce, second ONLY to Yuga)
Great list, just wanted to add on though.

Apparently Glacta Knight is a color for Meta Knight already, which is why I left him off the list. Great pick, but probably not likely due to the color.

Also, why not make Black Shadow just old school Ganondorf, that way we can keep the slow Captain Falcon type play style, but on a much more fitting character. Sort of how Doctor Mario was put in to please people who like Mario’s Melee move set.

Love the rest of the picks though, would absolutely love Masked Man as he has a cool design. Thanks for bringing these to my attention too, these are superb picks.

Definitely not my idea, but Giegue (Giygas’ form in MOTHER) might work as a Mewtwo Echo, and there’s also the possibility of the Masked Man.
Maybe? So far echos are characters from their series, so I doubt they’d lay a Mother character over a Pokémon, but this is Sakurai (the same man who made Ganondorf a Captain Falcon clone) so anything is possible.
 

GoodGrief741

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Great list, just wanted to add on though.

Apparently Glacta Knight is a color for Meta Knight already, which is why I left him off the list. Great pick, but probably not likely due to the color.

Also, why not make Black Shadow just old school Ganondorf, that way we can keep the slow Captain Falcon type play style, but on a much more fitting character. Sort of how Doctor Mario was put in to please people who like Mario’s Melee move set.

Love the rest of the picks though, would absolutely love Masked Man as he has a cool design. Thanks for bringing these to my attention too, these are superb picks.



Maybe? So far echos are characters from their series, so I doubt they’d lay a Mother character over a Pokémon, but this is Sakurai (the same man who made Ganondorf a Captain Falcon clone) so anything is possible.
Yeah, it’s definitely a weird design choice, but after seeing fanart of it, it fits so well I just can’t unsee it.
 

Captain Shades

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Black Shadow, Eggman and Porky and Hades/Medusa are the more notable ones from series with no villains
Agreed, though Metal Sonic would be a better choice than Eggman, because 3rd parties seem to just get an echo, so Metal Sonic would easily fit the bill. Honestly, all you need is a Fire Emblem villain like the Black Knight to round out the list of series with notable villains, and your list would be perfect.

Yeah, it’s definitely a weird design choice, but after seeing fanart of it, it fits so well I just can’t unsee it.
It would be cool, do you by chance have the fan art so I can see? Otherwise, having more Mother reps would be cool, even though I’m banking on Ninten coming first.
 

GoodGrief741

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It would be cool, do you by chance have the fan art so I can see? Otherwise, having more Mother reps would be cool, even though I’m banking on Ninten coming first.
I... do not. I’ll try to find it though, iirc I saw it in the Echo characters thread.
 

zferolie

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Medusa I see most likely for a KI villain. Hades was just in 1 game while Medusa is in both of them, and while she did fight back against hades at the end she only did it because she hated being controlled. Plus she can easily be an Echo on Palutena
 

Captain Shades

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Medusa I see most likely for a KI villain. Hades was just in 1 game while Medusa is in both of them, and while she did fight back against hades at the end she only did it because she hated being controlled. Plus she can easily be an Echo on Palutena
I can see it, Hades just seems to be far more loved than Medusa, so it’s a tough call.
 

SenSx

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I really hope Medusa makes it now, because we really need a female touch on the villain side, along side all those heavy hitters.
 
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Nimbostratus

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I don't think Sakurai is thinking in terms of "villains." He's thinking in terms of "rivals." K. Rool's reveal trailer is literally called "The Rivals." This explains why we are able to see Kirby and Meta Knight face off like that in the trailer, because even though Meta Knight is no villain, both he and Dedede could probably qualify as rivals. If we few this trend from those lens and don't require that they be truly evil, more possibilities are opened up.

As for what I'd want, Porky or a KI villain. I'd be fine with either Medusa or Hades. I like that Medusa has a longer legacy and would bring in a female villain, but I prefer Hades as a character. I didn't get the impression that Uprising really respected Medusa that much based on her role in the story.
Vaati would be cool as well, but I'm not holding my breath.
 

MacDaddyNook

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Are they really addressing concerns over something arbitrary like a character's gender or plot role?



I think all of the female characters that got in Smash 4, did so for other reasons besides some people thinking we needed more females.

Wii Fit Trainer was included because Wii Fit was a major seller on the Wii system, and was just an odd enough concept to catch Sakurai's attention. Wii Fit Trainer also got a Male counterpart.

Rosalina has been the rising star, in popularity and presence, in the Mario series.

Female versions of Villager, Robin and Corrin were included as they were aspects of those characters' avatar nature. The male versions are all also treated as the default version.

Bayonetta was included because Nintendo personally produced her second game and she supposedly won the ballot in Europe,

Lucina was added due to being an easy upgrade from being an alternate costume for Marth.

Sakurai had worked on Kid Icarus uprising personally and had expanded Palutena's character significantly, he most-like grew a soft spot for her. You can call his bias towards games he works on in this case, but her gender most-likely played no part in her inclusion.

Wendy was part of the Koopalings, and if they were to be included, she obviously would have to been included as well.



And if we look at the villain newcomers for Ultimate.

K. Rool and Ridley are two of the most requested characters for a very long time and absolutely had a very high demand during the Smash Ballot. Ultimate is certainly emphasizing bringing in characters that have high fan demand, it's only natural these two would make it in.

Dark Samus is both an easy copy of Samus and was also highly requested, according to the direct, much like how Chrom (an hero) was included for the same reason.

If anything, popularity seems to be the driving factor for these characters. Unless other characters that happen to be villains are getting as highly requested as these three, I really doubt we will see a spike in playable bad guys.
 

Captain Shades

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Nimbostratus Nimbostratus that’s a good observation, I just assumed he was picking villains as that was a very specific complaint from the Smash community was that we had a very lacking amount of villains in Smash. Even as rivals though, would Dedede or Meta Knight even still fit, like I said about them being villains, they haven’t done anything for quite a few games now and are actually pretty likely to instead help Kirby.

MacDaddyNook MacDaddyNook I agree that many got in for other reasons, but the Smash community was complaining about a lack of female fighters and now villains so the changes make sense and fit with what the Smash community wanted. You have to remember, Brawl only had around 3 to 3 1/2 female fighters, so there was quite an imbalance that seemed to be fixed in Wii U. Now the issue is villains as Wii U only really had 3 true villains on the roster. I think many see that these characters deserve a spot even before looking at their status, it just makes sense to talk about the lack of a certain group as King K and Ridley were both deserving of spots, it just helps that villains usually get the short end of the stick, giving more reasons for their inclusion.

SenSx SenSx Octolings would also be a good choice for a female villain as they are usually depicted as females, but Medusa would be a nice “classic” female villain rep, so you have my support.
 

Zhadgon

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My banner is almost complete only a few characters left to confirm.

Edited; This banner was made in the Smash Wii U era.

.n_n.
 
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Dalek_Kolt

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For what it's worth, here's my wishlist of antagonists to be put in eventually from most to least-wanted.
lineso.png

From left to right: Ganon (The Legend of Zelda), Dark Matter Blade (Kirby), Porky (MOTHER), Captain Syrup (Wario Land), Medusa (Kid Icarus)
 

zferolie

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Man I forgot about Captain Syurp. That would be a blast from the past, and could be an interesting choice
 

PsychoIncarnate

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Medusa and Porky

Marx and Skull Kid

I don't think Sakurai is thinking in terms of "villains." He's thinking in terms of "rivals." K. Rool's reveal trailer is literally called "The Rivals." This explains why we are able to see Kirby and Meta Knight face off like that in the trailer, because even though Meta Knight is no villain, both he and Dedede could probably qualify as rivals. If we few this trend from those lens and don't require that they be truly evil, more possibilities are opened up.

As for what I'd want, Porky or a KI villain. I'd be fine with either Medusa or Hades. I like that Medusa has a longer legacy and would bring in a female villain, but I prefer Hades as a character. I didn't get the impression that Uprising really respected Medusa that much based on her role in the story.
Vaati would be cool as well, but I'm not holding my breath.
Ridley is a straight up villain and not rival
 
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PsychoIncarnate

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I’d consider Ridley both a villain and a rival. The terms aren’t mutually exclusive- there’s a lot of overlap.
Ridley killed Samus' parents and tried to kill Samus.

There is no rivalry between Samus and Ridley. They aren't trying to achieve the same goal. They don't have mutual respect for eachother.
 

MacDaddyNook

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Nimbostratus Nimbostratus that’s a good observation, I just assumed he was picking villains as that was a very specific complaint from the Smash community was that we had a very lacking amount of villains in Smash. Even as rivals though, would Dedede or Meta Knight even still fit, like I said about them being villains, they haven’t done anything for quite a few games now and are actually pretty likely to instead help Kirby.

MacDaddyNook MacDaddyNook I agree that many got in for other reasons, but the Smash community was complaining about a lack of female fighters and now villains so the changes make sense and fit with what the Smash community wanted. You have to remember, Brawl only had around 3 to 3 1/2 female fighters, so there was quite an imbalance that seemed to be fixed in Wii U. Now the issue is villains as Wii U only really had 3 true villains on the roster. I think many see that these characters deserve a spot even before looking at their status, it just makes sense to talk about the lack of a certain group as King K and Ridley were both deserving of spots, it just helps that villains usually get the short end of the stick, giving more reasons for their inclusion.

SenSx SenSx Octolings would also be a good choice for a female villain as they are usually depicted as females, but Medusa would be a nice “classic” female villain rep, so you have my support.
I understand your point, but I still disagree. I believe that characters are included for their uniqueness, popularity, promotional viability or ease of inclusion.

If you look at the female characters we got in Smash 4, many didn't exist during the time Brawl was in development; and the two who did (Palutena and Wendy), were more-or-less forgotten or considered not Smash worthy at the time. By the time Smash 4 was in development, most of these characters came into existence and it was only natural that they would be included at that time.

I understand there was some demand for female characters in Smash 4, but if demand couldn't (until now) get Ridley and K Rool into Smash, I doubt complaining about something insignificant like the gender of a character would.

When it comes to villains, only K Rool and Ridley had anyone really banging down the doors for. Dark Samus has some popularity, but she was easily slapped onto Samus and thus took little time/resources to include. I just don't see that kind of demand for any other villain unless you count Shadow the Hedgehog.
 

Nimbostratus

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Ridley killed Samus' parents and tried to kill Samus.

There is no rivalry between Samus and Ridley. They aren't trying to achieve the same goal. They don't have mutual respect for eachother.
If you are taking the definition at its most literal, then ok, you have a point. But I think the term is being treated more casually as “person you see them paired up against”. Would you consider the Kong family and K. Rool “rivals”? Why include Meta Knight in the same lineup as the villains if that is all we are looking at?
Obviously, villains are a component of this, I’m just saying I think the scope is a bit bigger, largely based on the choice of the trailer’s name and the inclusion of Meta Knight.
 

PsychoIncarnate

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If you are taking the definition at its most literal, then ok, you have a point. But I think the term is being treated more casually as “person you see them paired up against”. Would you consider the Kong family and K. Rool “rivals”? Why include Meta Knight in the same lineup as the villains if that is all we are looking at?
Obviously, villains are a component of this, I’m just saying I think the scope is a bit bigger, largely based on the choice of the trailer’s name and the inclusion of Meta Knight.
Meta Knight is the only one that can be considered a rival and not villain. But a lot of Kirby villains eventually become friends with him. All but Dark matter
 

epicgordan

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Hm...what about a Pokémon rival/villain?

I doubt we'd get a Rival or Villain human character in Ultimate. Mewtwo doesn't appear to be classified as either of these things. So my guess could be Necrozma since, you know, it as a Pokémon posed a pretty great threat in Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon, and could embody the entirety of Gen 7 as of right now.

It's also worth noting that Pit's rival in Kid Icarus: Uprising is Dark Pit (even though he isn't evil).

And Yoshi shares his major antagonists with Mario in the form of Bowser, Bowser Jr., and occasionally, Wario. So I do not count him.

Still, I'm pretty much assuming that all of our remaining newcomers--may they be unique or echoes--will all be products of the ballot. And since I am certain that 103 stages are all we are going to get in the base game, I doubt we're going to get any more newcomer IP's. But all I want is more Final Fantasy representation. Just two songs, and two-three trophies? Hopefully, we get a Final Fantasy Assist Trophy soon.
 

epicgordan

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I understand your point, but I still disagree. I believe that characters are included for their uniqueness, popularity, promotional viability or ease of inclusion.

If you look at the female characters we got in Smash 4, many didn't exist during the time Brawl was in development; and the two who did (Palutena and Wendy), were more-or-less forgotten or considered not Smash worthy at the time. By the time Smash 4 was in development, most of these characters came into existence and it was only natural that they would be included at that time.

I understand there was some demand for female characters in Smash 4, but if demand couldn't (until now) get Ridley and K Rool into Smash, I doubt complaining about something insignificant like the gender of a character would.

When it comes to villains, only K Rool and Ridley had anyone really banging down the doors for. Dark Samus has some popularity, but she was easily slapped onto Samus and thus took little time/resources to include. I just don't see that kind of demand for any other villain unless you count Shadow the Hedgehog.
I would also consider the possibility of Skull Kid making it in. We do know that the character in question is quite popular a request in his own right. And instead of an outright disconfirming of the character as an Assist Trophy, we got the Moon. So he's definitely a character we can consider on the table who is a villain. Even though I doubt you can classify him as a rival since, you know, he only appeared in one mainline Zelda game. Still, Majora's Mask has such a colossal and devoted following that many consider it to be even better than Ocarina of Time--which is often regarded one of, if not THE greatest video game of all time. He even got his own fan-made animated movie for crying out loud.

In fact, of all potential newcomers, I think he stands as the single best shot at getting in at this point alongside (provided trademark issues and corporate bureaucracy don't get in the way) Geno.

Edit: S***. I accidentally double posted, and I have no idea how to delete it.
 
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MacDaddyNook

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I would also consider the possibility of Skull Kid making it in. We do know that the character in question is quite popular a request in his own right. And instead of an outright disconfirming of the character as an Assist Trophy, we got the Moon. So he's definitely a character we can consider on the table who is a villain. Even though I doubt you can classify him as a rival since, you know, he only appeared in one mainline Zelda game. Still, Majora's Mask has such a colossal and devoted following that many consider it to be even better than Ocarina of Time--which is often regarded one of, if not THE greatest video game of all time. He even got his own fan-made animated movie for crying out loud.

In fact, of all potential newcomers, I think he stands as the single best shot at getting in at this point alongside (provided trademark issues and corporate bureaucracy don't get in the way) Geno.

Edit: S***. I accidentally double posted, and I have no idea how to delete it.
Good point, I forgot about him. He does have a strong fan base, so I could see him getting in through his popularity.
 

Captain Shades

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Wow this thread blew up, I’m really glad to see the villain support.

Another potential threat could be the Black Knight from Fire Emblem. He’s a popular character in the community and he did have a Mii Fighter costume in Smash 4. He’s also been used to advertise Heroes starter pack for a while, so he could make for an interesting inclusion. He would probably be worse in the air than even Little Mac due to armor, but his ground game would be solid, barely flinching when taking a hit and having very low knock back.

Also I saw the idea for a Yoshi villain. If Yoshi was to get one, than obviously Kamek would be the best choice as he has magic to use, and is definitely more of a Yoshi villain than a Mario one.

Another cool idea could be Team Rocket’s Jessie and James if we want a Pokémon villain. It could be like Pokémon trainer, but with Pokémon like Meowth.
 

Seanp12

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Wario - He is off the villain list. He was only ever evil in one title, and that was Super Mario Land 2. He was an antagonist in the GameCube’s Mario sports titles, but modern titles have him being just another member of the cast or possessed, so I don’t think he qualifies as a villain.
That's not quite true. WarioWare has always been sort of anarchic, but if has protagonists, they're Wario's employees, and if it has an antagonist, it's Wario trying to rip them off. It's pretty much been cemented with WarioWare Gold, given that he's the final boss. It's just a villain-centric series is all.
 

Captain Shades

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That's not quite true. WarioWare has always been sort of anarchic, but if has protagonists, they're Wario's employees, and if it has an antagonist, it's Wario trying to rip them off. It's pretty much been cemented with WarioWare Gold, given that he's the final boss. It's just a villain-centric series is all.
If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t Wario under the influence of the treasure he found, making him evil in Gold.

I believe most see Wario as an anti-hero, not a villain. He’s greedy, but he really isn’t evil. He’s never done anything to put him in the ranks of Bowser or Ganondorf. He’s more like a greedy business man that trying to make the most money possible. I think the fact that everyone in WarioWare seems to think of Wario as a “friend” really shows that he isn’t a monster, he mainly just gets carried away in his greed, so his friends usually need to put him back on track. It also helps that Wario is a hero in the Wario Land games, while unintentional, he has saved princesses and done good deeds. Heck, Mario actually stole things from him in his titles and in comics it’s shown that Mario has traumatized him, so who’s the real villain?
 

StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
7,894
After Brawl, lack of female fighters was a pretty common complaint. While I don't think Sakurai only picked fighters because of their gender, I'm sure it influenced the direction of things to some extent.

After Smash 4, lack of villains was also a common complaint. The implied hero vs. villain mode, along with the series of villains being shown in K. Rool's trailer, implies to me that they are attempting to address that as well. It doesn't hurt of course that K. Rool and Ridley were two of the most requested characters left period, but the addition of Dark Samus also confirms to me that villains are a focus this time around.
 

Captain Shades

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
775
After Brawl, lack of female fighters was a pretty common complaint. While I don't think Sakurai only picked fighters because of their gender, I'm sure it influenced the direction of things to some extent.

After Smash 4, lack of villains was also a common complaint. The implied hero vs. villain mode, along with the series of villains being shown in K. Rool's trailer, implies to me that they are attempting to address that as well. It doesn't hurt of course that K. Rool and Ridley were two of the most requested characters left period, but the addition of Dark Samus also confirms to me that villains are a focus this time around.
Sup StormC StormC , sorry for my Krool denial.

I agree, villains seem to be taking a focus this time around, along with fan picks, so I hope we get at least 2-3 more baddies added to the roster, even if it is in the form of Echoes. Now the question is just who?
 

Mastermiine

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 12, 2014
Messages
493
If we were gonna have a sonic villain I would rather have Dr. Eggman over Metal. I would not want Metal to be in over shadow as an echo or even Tails if for some reason he became an echo.
 

TCT~Phantom

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
2,575
NNID
TCT~Phantom
IMO for smash, any antagonist/anti hero/rival can count as a villain (except :ultdarkpit: since he never did anything bad to begin with hes just an edgy kid). So in my eyes :ultbowser::ultbowserjr::ultganondorf::ultkingdedede::ultmetaknight::ultmewtwo::ultridley::ultwario::ultwolf:, Dark Samus, and King K Rool are all villains.


In terms of where to go for villains, thats a tough spot. Realistically the only unique villain I could see getting added at this point is Skull Kid, but even then I am not certain he will be in. Still, with a lot of circumstantial evidence in his favor he could make the cut. Porky also would work but lets be real he is not getting in which makes me sad. An Ultra Beast can be said to be an antagonist for Pokemon if you wanna go there, so Nihilego or Buzzwole could work.

I feel some echos could be good sources of antagonists. Shadow, despite playing the hero a lot, has been an antagonist in arguably his most famous role in SA2, and as Sonic's rival fits the part of an antagonist. Akuma fits as a Ryu echo, although he might need a few touches (like a Raging Demon move), but realistically a Street Fighter Echo makes sense. Black Shadow I like the idea of as an echo a lot, it lets people experience Ganondorf without the changes made to him in Ultimate, and Norio Wakamoto coming on board to voice him would be amazing. Minus Norio Wakamoto, Medusa makes sense as a Palutena echo, but perhaps she uses some of Palutena's old custom moves so they do not go to waste (give me jumpglide and lightweight please). Octolings would make sense too, honestly. There are so many echos that can help serve as rivals and antagonists it gets me excited.
 
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Mr Chance Pants

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
14
Just give me Gruntilda. That's my villain. Optional skull costume.

Neutral B: throws potion, random effect. Burning, gas, etc

Down B: releases evil Jinjo

Side B: throws body of bottles at enemy..... too harsh?

Up B: drinks potion that let's her rocket upwards

Ultimate: cutscene with grunty trapping enemy in Switch o matic machine and one of her famous rhymes along with iconic "RAAAH REH RAAAAAAAAAAH RO RAH RE RAHHH!" door opens to reveal her taking on some part of the other character. Bowser shell, pikachu tail, basically showing it went horribly wrong.

Or just put Banjo in and I'll be happy with that.
 

Seanp12

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
223
If I’m not mistaken, wasn’t Wario under the influence of the treasure he found, making him evil in Gold.

I believe most see Wario as an anti-hero, not a villain. He’s greedy, but he really isn’t evil. He’s never done anything to put him in the ranks of Bowser or Ganondorf. He’s more like a greedy business man that trying to make the most money possible. I think the fact that everyone in WarioWare seems to think of Wario as a “friend” really shows that he isn’t a monster, he mainly just gets carried away in his greed, so his friends usually need to put him back on track. It also helps that Wario is a hero in the Wario Land games, while unintentional, he has saved princesses and done good deeds. Heck, Mario actually stole things from him in his titles and in comics it’s shown that Mario has traumatized him, so who’s the real villain?
Wario wasn't under the influence of treasure any more than he ever is. Besides, the treasure was just an absurdly decorative chamber pot.

Wario's not really ever done anything just to be selfless. He's only in it for money, and the only reason he was an antihero in Wario Land was because he was fighting a pirate no better than he was. In WarioWare, however, he's crossed back over to antivillain in the vein of Dilbert's pointy-haired boss.
 
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