The True Arena - Kirby Match-Up/Stage Discussion (Discussing: Villager!)

[HairyHarry]

If there's one thing I learned in my short time of playing Villager, a Villager's biggest weakness is itself. So many of his/her moves rely on projectiles, meaning an attentive enemy-Villager can easily pocket them all. Because copying Villager gives Kirby their pocket ability, this is also true for Kirby. F-Smash, the tree, F-air, and B-air are all very common and reliable (Except for the tree) kill moves, (Offstage for F-air and B-air) but they all use projectiles making it very hard for a Villager to land one on a Kirby that has their ability.

Copying aside though, I'd say they're even/slightly in Kirby's favor. Villager's u-tilt can potentially stop a Kirby from approaching in the air with an u-smash, u-tilt, or n-air. It's possible for Kirby to gimp Villager due to the fact that Kirby can extend really far with little consequence.
Take this all with a grain of salt though, as I've never been to a tournement

 

[DarkBlueSpark]

Villager relies on projectiles and that makes it hard for Kirby to approach. Once he gets in and Copies Villager's Pocket, I feel like it's much more even, providing that the Kirby player is proficient enough with the move. Kirby carries the advantage with a better grab game and I feel like Kirby has an easier time of getting Villager offstage than vice versa. It's not that hard to gimp Villager with Kirby, so there's that. It's just that if Kirby doesn't have Pocket, it makes the matchup much more difficult for Kirby. The Pocket gives him a way to counter the projectiles thrown at him and makes the opposing Villager more wary of using them. I'd say 60:40 in favor of Villager overall, but 50:50 or even 60:40 in favor of Kirby if he can get Pocket.

 

[Kooby]

Villager relies mostly on using projectiles (Namely Lloid Rocket, Fair and Bair), which can make approaching as Kirby even harder, however, Kirby can inhale Villager and gain his Pocket ability, which makes all of his projectiles less useful agaisn't you, and pocketing the tree can be lethal (Not 100% sure about this, but i heard it can kill Villager at any percent), despite this, Villager still retains his pocketing, which can allow him to pocket after you use what you pocketed, and since Lloid rocket can be used even if you have one pocketed, Villlager can re-pocket a Lloid, and re-use it along with another Lloid, although, you can quickly pocket one of the Lloids and dodge Villager's followup if he had planned one (I.E. an aerial or a dash).
Aside from using pocket, pretty much Kirby is a bit better than Villager on "hand-to-hand" combat (No projectiles), as Villager's only strong aerials are his Uair and Dair, but only if it's 3 turnips, and Kirby doens't require any luck with aerials, aswell as how Kirby can follow up with any most of his aerials after landing (Such as Dair into a jab), while Villager can't, due to high ending lag, Kirby is also better when it comes to grabs, despite Villager having larger range, it has a lot of ending lag if it misses, the pummel is really slow, and most of his throws are really weak, and lack any followups (Sometimes they can follow up to Bair or Fair, but really rarely on Kirby), while Kirby, depsite having lower range, has a faster ending lag, a relaly quick pummel (Allowing atleast 1 or 2 pummels and a throw at low percentages) and really strong throws, and has a few followups to them (Fthrow into Fair, Bthrow into Bair, and Uthrow to Fair)
MI'd say it's 60:40 or 65:35 in Kirby's favour, i haven't really played agasin't many Villagers, so i might have exagerated some stuff.

 

[Sonsa]

Hi! I usually write in the Villager matchup thread and saw someone say yall were talking about Villager vs Kirby here, so I hope I can be helpful! I fight a few good Kirby's on smashboards so I think I know what I'm talking about, but as always, open to discussion, if someone disagrees with what I say I'd love to discuss further. Anyway, here's what I wrote there:
Villager vs Kirby
Okay! ...where to start... I guess with what you can pocket. Kirby doesn't have a lot of projectiles, but you can pocket the... wind or whatever it is that comes out of Kirby's sword after his up-b. It's not really that worth it, but good to know.

Speaking of recoveries, both are pretty great! Villager's is faster, both his balloons and riding gyroid, but his riding gyroid leaves him a bit vulnerable at times, even though you can slow it down and do mindgames, and Balloons have no hitbox (disregarding customs) And Kirby can use attacks in the middle of his jumps, while his up-b has a few hitbox's. Only thing is it's rather linear, so pretty easily punished a well timed bowling ball.

It's rather tricky but if you can execute a footstool then Kirby will lose all his jumps and have to up-b, which you could punish with a turnip spike or just a turnip gimp. After that Kirby may have a tough time getting to the ledge as all he can do is go straight up and down pretty much, if you can master a footstool punish then killing Kirby could be pretty easy. However, it isn't easy to get that footstool, so don't be so relieved.

Whereas if Villager is off stage and trying to recover with balloons, I think Kirby may be able to pop his balloons with a back-air, jump, back-air, jump back to the stage with good name. Or maybe a well sniped forward air? Kirby can also try a down-b kill if your on a walled stage and being to predictable and vertical with your recovery.

Basically, both recoveries are pretty great and you need to be pretty on point to finish each other off. Both have spikes that need some luck, Villager's more random but rewarding, and both can gimp with good enough aim.

As for killing on-stage, both have some hard hits. Kirby has a better grab that can be converted into pretty good combos, sometimes ending with a smash. Be wary of foward throw to around four up-airs to a back-air. Or a down-air to a grab or smash. Try to break these combos with nair or good DI and use of 2nd jump.

You should also beware Kirby's down-b. It's strong and can catch you when you try to kill with an up-air. It's pretty tempting knowing Kirby is a light character, but you have to stay away from directly under him. At least his rock move is very linear and has some significant start-up and end-lag. Just be patient.

You should try and rack up damage with gyroids, slingshots, well placed tilts (all come in handy quite often) Short hop down-air is also a great approach as always, when Kirby doesnt wanna jump - maybe cause of a gyroid ya launched. Slingshot combos can still work, but due to Kirby's small size, not as often as it may work on other characters. However quick follow ups like down-tilt to up-air or down-air to forward-tilt are still pretty great. Spacing out usually works, but be careful because Kirby does have the ability to jump over your walls.

I rarely see Kirby use his hammer, especially in this matchup, there's no time when Villager is constantly keeping his space and pressuring with slingshots.

The tree can come in handy, the axe too, the watering can however is usually useless. When Kirby recovers with his up-b from below the ledge, the watering can probably wont have an effect. When Kirby uses it above the ledge his sword will always hit Villager's head before the watering can's droplets hit Kirby.

Kirby's copy ability can be very useful, pocketing much of Villager's moveset. However, Villager will now be able to pocket back some of his own moveset - and sucking Villager in can be quite difficult with the startup and endlag. Especially when Villager wants to be quick and jumpy up close, and keep his space with a gyroid gaining stage control beyond mid-range. (I'm worried a lot of people imagine copying Villager is just that easy, but you have to chase him down and make a sorta good read, Villager doesn't really wanna stay in one spot, especially up close. Only maybe if he wants to cut down a tree on you - but hey, you might die to a tree as you get him in your mouth) But! If Villager DOES get caught, Kirby gets a much more useful neutral-special! He can steal a gyroid and approach noticeably easier by covering his approach with it.

So... Both are good in the air, both are pretty good off-stage with Villager having a bit of an advantage, and both are good on stage with Kirby having a liiil bit of an advantage. You both don't need to be that risky, but your combos and hits should be on point. Solid aim and timing and you should be rewarded nicely. One or the other might have a slight advantage, but unless I'm completely forgetting something I think this matchup is pretty even. 50:50!

Stages Villager would prefer: Lylat, Battlefield, maybe Kongo Jungle
Stages Kirby would prefer: Probably Wuhu, Skyloft, Halberd

 

[meleebrawler]

Short-hop slingshots are useless when Kirby crouches.

 

[Sonsa]

Short-hop slingshots are useless when Kirby crouches.

Sure, but he can't stay there and crouch if I've covered the ground with an approaching gyroid. He either has to do something - jump, shield, roll, spotdodge, Kirby and Jigglypuff's useful crouches arent as useful on Villager. His grab, forward smash, f-tilt, all manage to hit them fine whereas other characters might be too tall. It's interesting! Like they had it in mind from Villager's development that he should be able to demand space, even from smaller characters.

 

[Cryz]

Yeah crouch isn't as useful and villager can cover a lot of option and wall kirby.
He has greats mix ups: want to shield my gyro? Sure let me grab you. Want to avoid the gyro by jumping, sure, eat a slingshot. he's conditionning the opponent's movement.
Sure we can pocket but a vilager main will always know how to pocket better than us kirby mains.
Villager's recovery is better by far (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rW1wFV4WTxE) and popping the balloons is really hard.
Villager can also secure his way back to the ledge with the gyro.
Great stage control overall with the gyro, the tree and slingshots.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Villager Week!

Pros:

Cons:

Copy Ability:

Stage Picks:

Additional Notes:

Overall Score:







Personally I think it's pretty even. Taking his copy power makes a lot of his moves kind of a bad idea. He camps you out pretty hard but Kirby's not bad at getting through walls of projectiles, and combos him decently enough when he gets in. Have to watch out for his frame 3 Nair combo breaker though. It's kinda possible for Kirby to gimp Villager with multiple Dairs. Kill power/reliability seems a bit in Kirby's favor maybe?

I would have though this was in villagers favor, because getting the inhale is hard enough, those Bair/Fairs are so rediculous even if they arent the best at KOing, but if you can get the inhale, then i would believe it would be even, maybe even in Kirbys favour

 

[HairyHarry]

It's rather tricky but if you can execute a footstool then Kirby will lose all his jumps and have to up-b, which you could punish with a turnip spike or just a turnip gimp. After that Kirby may have a tough time getting to the ledge as all he can do is go straight up and down pretty much, if you can master a footstool punish then killing Kirby could be pretty easy. However, it isn't easy to get that footstool, so don't be so relieved.

I'm confused as to what you mean by this. Getting footstooled doesn't make Kirby lose any of his jumps.
(This is coming from a Kirby that was footstooled not 5 minutes ago and could still jump up to the stage)

 

[Sonsa]

I'm confused as to what you mean by this. Getting footstooled doesn't make Kirby lose any of his jumps.
(This is coming from a Kirby that was footstooled not 5 minutes ago and could still jump up to the stage)

Oh really? I thought footstools made any character lose all their jumps! Sorry, disregard that I suppose!

 

[2Mixer]

I have some videos against our best (well.. he quitted him) villager here

well nvm here was video stuff that were deleted..

So Villager is basically slow and both have awesome offstage play.
i would say its 50:50 or even +1 for kirby

 

[JohnnyB]

Keep in mind that pocket has a fair ammount of endlag and can be punished. You see a lot of the pocket shenanigans and mind games with the villager diddo matchup, but as a Kirby you are going to be at a disadvantage not being able to generate the projectiles in the first place. It's great that you pocketed a lloid rocket, but was it really worth the grab > pummel > dthrow > uair that the villager got on you because you became mesmerized by the lloid and failed to realise that he baited you into pocketing the thing in the first place? It's also possible for the villager to re-pocket the things you throw back and that might actually be their goal since pocketed projectiles get double damage and increased knockback.

These are the kind of mindgames that villagers use on eachother all the time, but you won't be in on them as a Kirby. A very difficult piece of this mu for you is going to be learning how to use pocket and playing some of these games yourself.

I think the order of importance for projectiles for me at least would be as follows:

1. Slingshot (bair/fair):

It comes out fast, has decent range and great knockback before it gets pocketed. After the double damage/ knockback it's scary powerful! The bair version is a little more powerful.

2. Flower pot (Dash Attack):

Similar to fair and bair but it travels in an arc. Again great damage and knockback.

3. Chopped Down Tree:

It's not likely that villager will let you ever pocket this. Mostly because it's the most powerful thing in the game. I'm really not kidding here, it comes out as fast as any other pocketed projectile, breaks shields, and is a one hit KO at zero percent! If you ever get one make good use of it and for the love of god don't let villager re-pocket it!

4. Bowlig ball (fsmash):

I don't usually get to pocket it (or even bother, I have my own after all) in diddo matches but in this case it may be really effective. It's the ultimate gimping tool. All you have to do is chase him off stage and wait for The upb. Use your multiple jumps to stay above the villager and let the bowlling ball drop when you see the balloons. It'll go thorough the balloons, hit villager, and is a guaranteed kill. The only reason I rate it so low is because you need either an amazing read, a fluke, or a reckless opponent to get one in the first place. You won't even get a chance to pocket a single one in most matches.

5. Lloid:

I don't think you will find a lot of use for a single lloid. They are great projectiles, but there is a lot of meta behind them that almost gets totally negated when you can't fire as many of them as often as you want. It may be the case that you can use them in some amazing follow up that I'm not aware of, but until that comes to light I rate them pretty low for your purposes as a Kirby.

6 Wood chip.

This sometimes spawns when villager chops a tree down. It's a throwable that dissapears after it's thrown and hits the ground. You can keep repocketing it right after you hit villager with it and it's tumbling through air, possibly indefinitely. It's not really worth pocketing in my opinion, but then again maybe I'm missing something great you can do with it.

You can also pocket a Single unit of water from the watering can that villager uses to grow the tree, but It's literally completely useless so I didn't even put it on the list.

Also keep in mind that the contents of your pocket dissapear after 30 seconds so use it or lose it!

Everything I have stated it's based on the villager ditto match. Kirby's version of pocket could be different so this all needs testing, but It gives you a starting point at least.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

"but you can pocket the... wind or whatever it is that comes out of Kirby's sword after his up-b."
GOSH MAN! it's obviously the wave that comes out when Kirby uses his final cutter have you never played a Kirby game before?0/10 WORST PERSON EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Generally Villager has the slight advantage I'm afraid....
Getting the inhale won't even be easy to begin with, villager exploits Kirby's greatest weakness, his poor approach options.
If you play Villagers on FG and notice how they recover, They are very likely to recover just below the ledge(especially on stages with walls) this is your BEST time to use stone to get in that powerful knock back and damage while still being able to recover.
Now when you be the Pocket, sure it helps significantly, but villager still has his pocket, and will almost have double the projectiles.
This means you must use your projectiles quickly and run in for an attack because clearly if you deploy a rocket from afar, the villager will almost always pocket it, but if you run along with it, it's possible for you to get a grab.(I don't come across Villagers very often)

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

Generally Villager has the slight advantage I'm afraid....
Getting the inhale won't even be easy to begin with, villager exploits Kirby's greatest weakness, his poor approach options.
If you play Villagers on FG and notice how they recover, They are very likely to recover just below the ledge(especially on stages with walls) this is your BEST time to use stone to get in that powerful knock back and damage while still being able to recover.
Now when you be the Pocket, sure it helps significantly, but villager still has his pocket, and will almost have double the projectiles.
This means you must use your projectiles quickly and run in for an attack because clearly if you deploy a rocket from afar, the villager will almost always pocket it, but if you run along with it, it's possible for you to get a grab.(I don't come across Villagers very often)

couldn't villager just pull out a gyyriod instead of pocketing your gyroid to counter?

 

[Togii]

With custom moves being introduced to the metagame in recent events, I think we should also discuss which custom moves are ideal for each matchup. I've written my thoughts on Villager and previous discussed matchups below.

Sheik
Jumping Inhale
Hammer Bash
Upper Cutter
Stone/Grounding Stone

Inhale is necessary due to Needle Storm being god-tier. Everything else is a comfort pick.

Diddy Kong
Jumping Inhale
Giant Hammer
Upper Cutter
Stone/Grounding Stone

In my experience, all but the best of Diddy Players will try to grab you or trip you with a banana when you start charging Giant Hammer. This kills the Diddy, provided you release on time. Note: I only recommend using Giant Hammer if you are a stock up, and Diddy is 30% or higher. Of course, Hammer Bash if you aren't comfortable with Giant Hammer, or don't want to take the risk. Also, Jumping Inhale is mandatory for maximum Diddy gimpage.

Ness
Jumping Inhale
Hammer Bash
Upper Cutter
Grounding Stone/Meteor Stone

Meteor Stone is great to punish Ness's mandatory stall in his up-b, provided you're in position when he starts it. If not Meteor Stone, Grounding Stone should be used due to its decreased endlag, as we don't want to get grabbed by Ness.

Mario
Jumping Inhale
Hammer Bash
Upper Cutter
Stone

Jumping Inhale is great against Mario, as it can be easy to gimp once you get the angle down. The only downside is that his Fireballs cover him pretty well when he's recovering high, but only the default ones. Everything else is a comfort pick.

Yoshi
Ice Breath
Hammer Bash
Upper Cutter/Wave Cutter
Grounding Stone/Meteor Stone

Inhale is pretty much worthless vs Yoshi imo; his recovery is actually amazing so you can't gimp with it, and his copy ability isn't much better than Inhale itself. Ice Breath, while limited, can be effective in certain situations, the best one being an edgeguarding tool. If spaced correctly, it forces them to jump over you from the ledge, which can be punished on reaction since Yoshi's double jump is so distinctive, both audibly and visually. I hate Wave Cutter, but I could see this being one of the few matchups where it would do work. If you can catch Yoshi out of his double jump with the wave, it's possible to gimp him with this move (although difficult). I'm still partial to Upper Cutter, but being below an airborne Yoshi is a scary position to be in.

Pikachu
I don't think any customs really give Kirby a leg up in this matchup, so I default to my comfort pick of 3231 or 3232.

Villager
Jumping Inhale/Inhale
Hammer Bash
Upper Cutter
Meteor Stone

Pocket is necessary to even up the matchup imo, so Ice Breath is out. I would usually go Jumping Inhale, but I think this might be one matchup where default Inhale might be better, as Villager is adept at covering low altitudes, and it can be punished with slingshot on reaction, and I don't think it can jump over Pushy Lloyd. Also, Jumping Inhale's bonus to Kirbycides is moot. I chose Meteor Stone because of how quickly the stone transforms and drops, making it easy to kill Villager if he recovers low (just make sure you don't suicide with it).

Feel free to dispute my opinions, as I am by no means an expert.

 

[JohnnyB]

couldn't villager just pull out a gyyriod instead of pocketing your gyroid to counter?

couldn't villager just pull out a gyyriod instead of pocketing your gyroid to counter?

Not the best option usually. Since your pocket is going to be empty you can just pocket the lloid he sends to counter.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

This thread really needs to be updated, maybe let's start off with another character?
If so, How about we talk about Jigglypuff vs Kirby

 

[Dessa]

I vote Greninja, or if we're sticking to more common picks, sonic.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

I was thinking maybe Rosalina & Luma since it's one of kirby's more difficult matchups.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I was thinking maybe Rosalina & Luma since it's one of kirby's more difficult matchups.

If you mean in online battles(i fought a Rosa who was mostly my skill level, I ended up winning but barely,) I would think its even, of course the first time i fought someone with friends that was mostly my first online match with platforms, so I almost could never land, i got Usmashed and Utilt and Uaired like 6-7 times. I won overall, but it was close.
I feel like its closer to even or maybe slightly in Rosa's favor

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

If you mean in online battles(i fought a Rosa who was mostly my skill level, I ended up winning but barely,) I would think its even, of course the first time i fought someone with friends that was mostly my first online match with platforms, so I almost could never land, i got Usmashed and Utilt and Uaired like 6-7 times. I won overall, but it was close.
I feel like its closer to even or maybe slightly in Rosa's favor

I don't mean to be a buzz kill dude but whoever you where playing must not have been a very good rosalina then. She is easily one of kirby's most difficult matchups since she outranges him, can kill him at like 25% thanks to her up-air, and can keep us out of her face thanks to luma. These three things are basically what decides how good or bad a match-up goes for kirby and since rosalina has all three.....well you get the idea. She's another reason it's a good thing i main Sonic.

 

[Galaxian]

Gonna be honest, a lot of Kirby's MUs don't seem that awful. If Kirby gets in and starts to combo / get you off stage, he does pretty well. Kirby's not too bad this game, though he could be better. Still, anything's better than Melee Kirby.

I wouldn't play Kirby against Diddy, though. 2spooky of a MU.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Gonna be honest, a lot of Kirby's MUs don't seem that awful. If Kirby gets in and starts to combo / get you off stage, he does pretty well. Kirby's not too bad this game, though he could be better. Still, anything's better than Melee Kirby.

I wouldn't play Kirby against Diddy, though. 2spooky of a MU.

Literally couldnt agree more..............though I will face diddy with Kirby anytime
If only Kirby could crouch under his grab then i wonder how the MU would really be.

BTW Project sonicspeed, he wasnt really that bad,
Rosa's air game I think may be better then her ground game, Kirby does have to come in, but because she doesnt have much of an actual projectile it wont be as hard. I will admit the Uair KOs really early, but she wont always get the chance to land it, after all you have more jumps and can just air dodge/ rush to the ledge, and if they get too careless sometimes stone.
This is Stage dependent if im correct to assume, so on flat stages, I think Kirby might have an easier time?
I have faced several Rosa players online, most were just meh... some were decent and I mostly ended up winning.
But yea overall, Rosa has this in her favor.

 

[kirbyfan66]

Kirby vs Diddy is actually mostly even. Diddy is just so easy to get good damage on, even if his punishes are super scary.

If we do decide to do another matchup instead of Villager (I think the matchup is 60:40 in Kirby's favor but I don't have the energy to type up any reasoning), I think it should be Sonic or Rosalina. I also think we should talk about Lucario soon, but the other two are more important. Especially Sonic.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Kirby vs Diddy is actually mostly even. Diddy is just so easy to get good damage on, even if his punishes are super scary.

If we do decide to do another matchup instead of Villager (I think the matchup is 60:40 in Kirby's favor but I don't have the energy to type up any reasoning), I think it should be Sonic or Rosalina. I also think we should talk about Lucario soon, but the other two are more important. Especially Sonic.

Heck yes, would you also agree that, at least on the ground against certain characters like Diddy, Shiek, Rosa, and a few others,
Kirby's approach isnt AS bad as most of us seem to make it? his walking/running should mostly be at an average pace, so he isnt necessarily slow, but just not that fast. I mean, I mostly get in surprisingly alot pretty decently.

I think Kirby's MU may be slightly better then brawl? I mean, I see next to no characters who can counter him, besides a very good
DDD, ROB, and possibly Yoshi,

Most of his MU seems to be even or slightly in his favor, or slightly in his opponents favor, meaning Kirby can still hold his ground against some of the top tier characters.

 

[kirbyfan66]

Heck yes, would you also agree that, at least on the ground against certain characters like Diddy, Shiek, Rosa, and a few others,
Kirby's approach isnt AS bad as most of us seem to make it? his walking/running should mostly be at an average pace, so he isnt necessarily slow, but just not that fast. I mean, I mostly get in surprisingly alot pretty decently.

I think Kirby's MU may be slightly better then brawl? I mean, I see next to no characters who can counter him, besides a very good
DDD, ROB, and possibly Yoshi,

Most of his MU seems to be even or slightly in his favor, or slightly in his opponents favor, meaning Kirby can still hold his ground against some of the top tier characters.

The best counters for Kirby are characters that can outrange him.
Which unfortunately is well over half of the cast.

He doesn't really get wrecked by that many matchups (Yoshi destroys him but I can't think of any other awful matchups off the top of my head), but the amount that he wins is far too small. Some of his moves, especially Back Air and Forward Smash, should KO significantly better than they do. I've had Rage Kirby fail to KO characters like Diddy Kong at 115% with that Forward Smash, and it's cost me sets.

I think Rosalina is a bad matchup for Kirby, but far from unwinnable. I've faced many a good Rosalina in tournament, and while I haven't beaten them all, the real key is being patient and going ham on Luma. Without Luma, Kirby can actually do things due to Rosalina's slow/punishable attacks. But we're still technically talking about Villager, yes? Still feeling lazy (I know how odd that sounds considering the above) so I'll hold off on Villager stuff.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

The best counters for Kirby are characters that can outrange him.
Which unfortunately is well over half of the cast.

He doesn't really get wrecked by that many matchups (Yoshi destroys him but I can't think of any other awful matchups off the top of my head), but the amount that he wins is far too small. Some of his moves, especially Back Air and Forward Smash, should KO significantly better than they do. I've had Rage Kirby fail to KO characters like Diddy Kong at 115% with that Forward Smash, and it's cost me sets.

I think Rosalina is a bad matchup for Kirby, but far from unwinnable. I've faced many a good Rosalina in tournament, and while I haven't beaten them all, the real key is being patient and going ham on Luma. Without Luma, Kirby can actually do things due to Rosalina's slow/punishable attacks. But we're still technically talking about Villager, yes? Still feeling lazy (I know how odd that sounds considering the above) so I'll hold off on Villager stuff.

Aw come on, The amount of MU he wins may not be as small as you might think........I mean MANY will either be even or slightly in his favor.
I mean, he doesnt have the best tools to actually counter many characters, if any. I mean if I had to choose, I think he MIGHT counter......Olimar, in a way, if you can get his copy ability. Someone said that this MU is slightly in Oli's favor 55:45, but if you copy him, its like 25:75 way in Kirby's favor.

He might, counter Zelda as well, I mean she has 2 slow projectiles, slow overall speed(possibly a worser approach then Kirby)
The range in her attacks have been lowered and, while still powerful, she lost some power and still has......sub-par combo ability.

His KO moves are Smash attacks, Bair, Hammer, Stone, Nair, Fair, Dair
His smash attacks require some slight reads, but are fast and powerful nonetheless.
Bair is his main ariel to KO with, its powerful and can be used immediatley after grabbing the ledge from someone getting some quick kills.
Hammer is situational, and unless charged, is significantly weaker then in brawl, but If I am correct it can hit opponents on the ledge.
Stone, also situational, but not as much as hammer, it is very powerful, and surprisingly good for edge guarding certain characters, the grounded version has faster start-up and can be used to push opponents away.
Nair is not too reliable, its only good at KOing offstage, but its actually is decent at that and I have pulled it off before, just be careful of its lag.
Fair, Just like Nair, better for edge guard KOs, It can punish air dodges better then nair, and it is good for spacing as well.
Dair is one of the best and safest meteor smashes,if you can get the opponent to get hit with all of them, you can footstool them dropping them very low, possibly where they cant recover Very useful Ariel offstage and onstage because it can lead into a smash attack against grounded opponents(I go for Dsmash)

Overall, Kirby can get in some good damage if he can get in, but sometimes may have trouble KOing because most of them are only good in certain situations(I generally like to go for grabs at high percents to kill with throws, depending on the character.)

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

So off topic but has anyone found a use for perfect pivoting for anything kirby related? I've seen izaw pp into an up-tilt from his guide on it but that's about it. Is perfect pivot even going to be a big deal for a character like kirby since the length is dependent on your dash speed and kirby's is only average. I would test it but something like that is really hard to do with a pro controller because of the control stick placement.

 

[kirbyfan66]

The above post is a bit off topic and should probably go in the AT/Moveset discussion. I do have some thoughts on the topic but I'd rather not go too far off from Kirby's matchups. Same in regards to Kirby's K.O. moves.

Kirby does not go 75:25 on Olimar regardless of circumstance, though. In my dream world he does, though.
(I know getting the copy ability helps, as you said, but Olimar is a very good character with exceptional range with Pikmin and an immensely buffed offstage game.)

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

The above post is a bit off topic and should probably go in the AT/Moveset discussion. I do have some thoughts on the topic but I'd rather not go too far off from Kirby's matchups. Same in regards to Kirby's K.O. moves.

Kirby does not go 75:25 on Olimar regardless of circumstance, though. In my dream world he does, though.
(I know getting the copy ability helps, as you said, but Olimar is a very good character with exceptional range with Pikmin and an immensely buffed offstage game.)

Yea xD I mean I kind of thought that it was a little rediculous if it changes that much, but it DOES change to be possibly in Kirby's favor, a spammable, decent ranged, fast projectile is very good for him ^_^
I mean, now that Olimar can carry only 3 pikmin it does mean the unpredictability is dramatically reduced.
I basically have not faced good Olimars in FG, and because Wisconsin has no tourneys and im only 15, Yea.......... not much I can do

 

[Sparky15]

Yea xD I mean I kind of thought that it was a little rediculous if it changes that much, but it DOES change to be possibly in Kirby's favor, a spammable, decent ranged, fast projectile is very good for him ^_^
I mean, now that Olimar can carry only 3 pikmin it does mean the unpredictability is dramatically reduced.
I basically have not faced good Olimars in FG, and because Wisconsin has no tourneys and im only 15, Yea.......... not much I can do

I fought a good Alph Thursday and I had a tough time. The captains' Pikmin are so durable when used in an attack. Didn't know that copying their Pikmin Throw is pretty convenient. This definitely feels like one of Kirby's worse matchups. Still don't understand how horrendous confronting Yoshi is.

Honestly, I'd like to see our next matchup be Ike or Robin. Never made up my mind on how easy or hard those are.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I fought a good Alph Thursday and I had a tough time. The captains' Pikmin are so durable when used in an attack. Didn't know that copying their Pikmin Throw is pretty convenient. This definitely feels like one of Kirby's worse matchups. Still don't understand how horrendous confronting Yoshi is.

Honestly, I'd like to see our next matchup be Ike or Robin. Never made up my mind on how easy or hard those are.

Robin is pretty easy actually, Im almost positive you can duck under all of their thunders, and because they are so slow, Kirby can get in and rack up nice damage.
Robin is also another character I would recommend getting the copy ability from as well, just dont use Thoron, much or at all, to keep the copy ability as long as possible.

 

[Sparky15]

Robin is pretty easy actually, Im almost positive you can duck under all of their thunders, and because they are so slow, Kirby can get in and rack up nice damage.
Robin is also another character I would recommend getting the copy ability from as well, just dont use Thoron, much or at all, to keep the copy ability as long as possible.

I'm fully aware of that. I thought Robin could possibly receive an advantage at one point. I did have trouble with him sometimes, so I can't really underestimate him too much.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

I'm fully aware of that. I thought Robin could possibly receive an advantage at one point. I did have trouble with him sometimes, so I can't really underestimate him too much.

His smashes are annoying considering the hitbox is out longer then you would think, but really w/o their thunder they have a significantly harder time dealing with you.
I don't really understand why they don't use their ariels that much though.

 

[Sparky15]

His smashes are annoying considering the hitbox is out longer then you would think, but really w/o their thunder they have a significantly harder time dealing with you.
I don't really understand why they don't use their ariels that much though.

Oh nono, the Robins I fight utilize their Arcfire instead of their thunder tome attacks. Those are what I mainly have a difficult time with.

 

[FullMoon]

Hey Kirby mains, the Greninja boards are going to discuss the Kirby MU, so any input would be very appreciated: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...ypuff-ness-charizard-3-16-3-23.369356/page-14

Just keep your appetite in check.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

This thread really needs to be updated so how about we start voting on new match-ups? My votes going to become Sonic since he is my pocket main and i have played a few good sonics with kirby on wifi so i could definetly contribute to this match-up and he is becoming a major threat and quite popular in the competitive community so we need to learn how to deal with him.

 

[raizur]

As for the Villager to Kirby match up, from my experience, I'd give it about (Kirby) 50:50 (Villager) ratio. Reason being is becasue if Kirby inhales Villager, it gives him another defensive option. It can be an offense, but that's if the enemy villager doesn't repocket what Kirby had already pocketed. Overall, it's a pretty even match up. I haven't yet fought a good villager offline, but i've fought plenty online, without lag.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

This thread really needs to be updated so how about we start voting on new match-ups? My votes going to become Sonic since he is my pocket main and i have played a few good sonics with kirby on wifi so i could definetly contribute to this match-up and he is becoming a major threat and quite popular in the competitive community so we need to learn how to deal with him.

Agreed, and yea Sonic is a character that literally all my mains(Kirby,Peach,Zelda,Jiggly) struggle with.
He's so hard to punish, hit, runs too fast, has that annoying side special/down special(whichever one it is or if they are the same but slightly different) and is just a huge pain overall.
What kind of character would at least be able to stop his side/down special?
I am also thinking that I should try to practice with villager, his moveset is fun, but very wacky