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The Triforce of Toon: A Community Toon Link Guide
- Thread starter Fox Is Openly Deceptive
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
Yeah, it's all about improvising. If you see that you can't fit in another bair perfectly, don't bair. Try to read what they are doing. They can escape by attacking, air dodging, and SDI'ing. Air dodge = read the air dodge, attack. SDI = you should go back to camping. Attack = don't get hit, go camp summoar.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
Why do you say that there are no true combos?
Like, what defines a "true" combo?
Like, what defines a "true" combo?
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
NH Cody
Smash Champion
Oh I see.
And to answer one of the questions regarding bair chains, I like to start it as a follow up to a double utilt trap.
And to answer one of the questions regarding bair chains, I like to start it as a follow up to a double utilt trap.
So, I had a few hours spare this arvo. I worked on the thread. Bair isn't done. So what did I do? I pretty much worked out what I'll be doing for the whole combo section (you know, like I did the ground work). All the setting out and organisation is done, all the explaining and convincing is done. All I have to do now is get around to testing the percents and I'll write Bair up (and then we'll move on, probably to 'Zair to Nair').
Have a look at it, I'd like to get some feedback on my whole four characters idea. I just needed to find a way to test a few characters so that you could estimate the percentages for all characters and this is what I came up with. Tell me what you think and pretty much keep waiting patiently. It will get done.
---
Right! I'm back. (momentarily >_>)
I've got the next week to do stuff so let's get stuff done!
The testing for the Bair combo percents finally got done so you should check them out. They are quite accurate and so on, but if you want to know all about it, I've re-written the start of the combos section explaining the percents. Now that the percentages are in, is there anything else you wanted to say before I write it up (possibly tonight)?
If you wanted to say things like how to start/finish the combo, what the opponent can do to avoid the combo/how to deal with them trying to escape and general info about the combo like how important it is to Toon's gameplay, how reliable it is, how easy it is to implement and perform in a real game; then now is your last chance.
After this, we shall be discussing the Zair to Nair combo. (Because I test the percentages with a mate, you'll have to wait till next week to see the percentages, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss it after I've written up the Bair Chain.)
Let's get stuff done!
---
Ok, all done!! The Bair Chain has been written up. Which can only mean one thing.
Let's move on! (finally)
Listen up Toon's, we are now discussing Zair to Nair. Oh yeah.
So, what shall be discussed.... Well, I'm not sure atm tbh.
Just discuss it and at some point if I think we need a bit of structure, I'll do one of those long *** posts asking tones of questions that I'd like answered. Until then, just discuss Zair to Nair. What do you think of it? How/why/when do you use it. Um, any char specific matchups it works well in. How necessary is it? How do you think it should be used in order to use it most effectively?
That'll do for now, but feel free to stray off those questions as long as it's Zair to Nair related.
Discuss!
Have a look at it, I'd like to get some feedback on my whole four characters idea. I just needed to find a way to test a few characters so that you could estimate the percentages for all characters and this is what I came up with. Tell me what you think and pretty much keep waiting patiently. It will get done.
---
Right! I'm back. (momentarily >_>)
I've got the next week to do stuff so let's get stuff done!
The testing for the Bair combo percents finally got done so you should check them out. They are quite accurate and so on, but if you want to know all about it, I've re-written the start of the combos section explaining the percents. Now that the percentages are in, is there anything else you wanted to say before I write it up (possibly tonight)?
If you wanted to say things like how to start/finish the combo, what the opponent can do to avoid the combo/how to deal with them trying to escape and general info about the combo like how important it is to Toon's gameplay, how reliable it is, how easy it is to implement and perform in a real game; then now is your last chance.
After this, we shall be discussing the Zair to Nair combo. (Because I test the percentages with a mate, you'll have to wait till next week to see the percentages, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss it after I've written up the Bair Chain.)
Let's get stuff done!
---
Ok, all done!! The Bair Chain has been written up. Which can only mean one thing.
Let's move on! (finally)
Listen up Toon's, we are now discussing Zair to Nair. Oh yeah.
So, what shall be discussed.... Well, I'm not sure atm tbh.
Just discuss it and at some point if I think we need a bit of structure, I'll do one of those long *** posts asking tones of questions that I'd like answered. Until then, just discuss Zair to Nair. What do you think of it? How/why/when do you use it. Um, any char specific matchups it works well in. How necessary is it? How do you think it should be used in order to use it most effectively?
That'll do for now, but feel free to stray off those questions as long as it's Zair to Nair related.
Discuss!
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
Zair to Nair is mad legit. It almost always connects, with the only exceptions being landing Zair almost fully extended, some weird stage interference, or just being slow. Nair sends the opponent away, which means that you can just resume to camping afterwards.
That's all I got. :/
That's all I got. :/
I'm glad you asked Kaffei. I put the answer in with the update. That's right, it's done.
Thanks heaps guys for contributing. Anyone else that thought about contributing but didn't, feel free to this time. Pretty much, if it hasn't been said, even if you think it's obvious, you may as well say it. Even if it has been said, feel free to reinforce it.
We are moving right along!
Let's discuss, Zair to Grab!
(For anyone wondering where the percents are, I'll get to all the percents that aren't there yet on Friday. Hopefully. Until then, let's get as much done as possible.)
Edit: Also, what did you want to discuss next time? I was thinking the U-tilt String. Any other ideas?
Thanks heaps guys for contributing. Anyone else that thought about contributing but didn't, feel free to this time. Pretty much, if it hasn't been said, even if you think it's obvious, you may as well say it. Even if it has been said, feel free to reinforce it.
We are moving right along!
Let's discuss, Zair to Grab!
(For anyone wondering where the percents are, I'll get to all the percents that aren't there yet on Friday. Hopefully. Until then, let's get as much done as possible.)
Edit: Also, what did you want to discuss next time? I was thinking the U-tilt String. Any other ideas?
Well I'm pretty certain the Dair can be avoided by airdodging. But that did make me think, how am I going to structure this if I keep going the way I am?
So far I've just been interested in covering the basic staple combos, the ones that just came to mind when I thought "Toon's combos". But there are so many simple ones that don't really need to be covered. Like, do we really need to test and talk about returning boomerang to everything? Or Bomb to pretty much anything? And then with the bombs, there are so many different variations depending on how the Bomb hit them. Example; throwing the Bomb down at them when in the air will give different results to throwing it forwards on the ground or Ibombing on the ground. The variations are endless. So I've gotta draw the line somewhere while still covering most of the combos that need to be covered.
Ok, the discussion for the Zair to grab is still on, so lets hear some feedback already. But I also want to seriously discuss how this is going to be arranged. Here is an idea I just had...
We could cover the basic staple combos in depth the way we have been so far, then, when it comes to the seemingly infinite amount of strings and variations of attacks that form combos, we can just write it out like this... U-tilt, U-tilt, SH Bair, Bair.... without a summary or anything too in depth other than sometimes a Note: after the string if I need to say anything about it. What I'll do is, I'll simply say, this is the U-tilt to Bair string, then test it on the four characters to see what variation of the string will get me the most damaging true combo. It's no good listing a combo if it can be escaped with ease. So in this example, I might find that with Bowser, the U-tilt to Bair string might work best by doing 3 U-tilts, then I might be able to pull off 4 Bairs before he can escape (just an example). But with say Jiggs, it might not work at all, or I'll only be able to use 1 U-tilt and then 2 Bairs.
Then, for the really simple ones like returning boomerang, I can just write out, returning boomerang to U-smash, then list the four characters and simply say yes or no if it works or not. For all I know, Jiggs might get popped up too high (again, just an example, in this case, I think that returning Boomerang to U-smash would be pretty solid).
Ok, so I'll have three main sections. The first section goes in depth with the percent range that the combo will work in and has a long How to Perform and Summary. The second section is a little less in depth, it won't have a long How to Perform and it won't have a Summary, but it will go into the character specifics in depth and find the best possible variation for things like the U-tilt to Bair string. Finally, for all the infinite simple combos that are just, one thing into another thing that I don't think need to be gone into that much, I'll have the third section that simply says, this thing to that thing, then the four characters, yes or no if it works or not.
Yeah. Actually, that might work.
Ok, let's hear some discussion already. I want to write it up tonight if I get some time.
The good thing about that plan is, I only really need discussion for the first section. So on top of the Zair to Grab discussion, please discuss what else you think needs to be in the first section. Example; does Zair to RAR Bair need to be in there? Would you call it a staple combo?
Long post is long.
So far I've just been interested in covering the basic staple combos, the ones that just came to mind when I thought "Toon's combos". But there are so many simple ones that don't really need to be covered. Like, do we really need to test and talk about returning boomerang to everything? Or Bomb to pretty much anything? And then with the bombs, there are so many different variations depending on how the Bomb hit them. Example; throwing the Bomb down at them when in the air will give different results to throwing it forwards on the ground or Ibombing on the ground. The variations are endless. So I've gotta draw the line somewhere while still covering most of the combos that need to be covered.
Ok, the discussion for the Zair to grab is still on, so lets hear some feedback already. But I also want to seriously discuss how this is going to be arranged. Here is an idea I just had...
We could cover the basic staple combos in depth the way we have been so far, then, when it comes to the seemingly infinite amount of strings and variations of attacks that form combos, we can just write it out like this... U-tilt, U-tilt, SH Bair, Bair.... without a summary or anything too in depth other than sometimes a Note: after the string if I need to say anything about it. What I'll do is, I'll simply say, this is the U-tilt to Bair string, then test it on the four characters to see what variation of the string will get me the most damaging true combo. It's no good listing a combo if it can be escaped with ease. So in this example, I might find that with Bowser, the U-tilt to Bair string might work best by doing 3 U-tilts, then I might be able to pull off 4 Bairs before he can escape (just an example). But with say Jiggs, it might not work at all, or I'll only be able to use 1 U-tilt and then 2 Bairs.
Then, for the really simple ones like returning boomerang, I can just write out, returning boomerang to U-smash, then list the four characters and simply say yes or no if it works or not. For all I know, Jiggs might get popped up too high (again, just an example, in this case, I think that returning Boomerang to U-smash would be pretty solid).
Ok, so I'll have three main sections. The first section goes in depth with the percent range that the combo will work in and has a long How to Perform and Summary. The second section is a little less in depth, it won't have a long How to Perform and it won't have a Summary, but it will go into the character specifics in depth and find the best possible variation for things like the U-tilt to Bair string. Finally, for all the infinite simple combos that are just, one thing into another thing that I don't think need to be gone into that much, I'll have the third section that simply says, this thing to that thing, then the four characters, yes or no if it works or not.
Yeah. Actually, that might work.
Ok, let's hear some discussion already. I want to write it up tonight if I get some time.
The good thing about that plan is, I only really need discussion for the first section. So on top of the Zair to Grab discussion, please discuss what else you think needs to be in the first section. Example; does Zair to RAR Bair need to be in there? Would you call it a staple combo?
Long post is long.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Zair to grab works well if they shield the zair, but it has to be spaced really well otherwise they can shield grab. I've also tried zair >run behind pivot grab which worked a bit but I don't really know if that's taking it out of context/ if it's good at all.
I don't think zair to rar bair should be in there since bair is shorter than zair and if you rar you're kind of moving away, aren't you? So connecting that bair is gonna be harder unless you zair pretty close to them, which is also risky
idk im stupid with this stuff
I don't think zair to rar bair should be in there since bair is shorter than zair and if you rar you're kind of moving away, aren't you? So connecting that bair is gonna be harder unless you zair pretty close to them, which is also risky
idk im stupid with this stuff
Ok, the Zair to Grab I'm talking about is when the Zair actually connects and you dash in and Grab (you combo the Zair into the Grab). From what I've seen, it can be unavoidable (which I'll test properly on Friday). You grab them out of mid air with the grab hitbox where Toon's hand is, before they can do anything (I'm pretty sure that the grab has two hitboxes, the end of the chain and in front of Toon, they both stay out while the chain goes out). I'm actually not 100% certain that it can be unavoidable. A Dash Grab comes out on frame 14. Comparing that to the 6 frame Nair even if you include the jumping frames, it would be interesting to know for sure.
What I meant by Zair to RAR Bair, is simply, you Zair them as normal, then pivot SH so you jump backwards instead of forwards in the same direction as the Zair and then you pull out the 6 frame Bair. It should work just as well as Zair to Nair minus the frames it takes to turn around (which isn't much). As for the range on Bair, you'd be surprised. It's not as much as Nair, but it's close. Just have a look at the hitbubbles. So yes, you would have to be slightly closer to them when you Zair and yes it will come out a few frames later, but the thing with Bair is, you can combo out of it whereas Nair just hits them away.
In theory, it should be one of his staple combos. Whether it works as well as it should or not, I'll find out on Friday.
What I meant by Zair to RAR Bair, is simply, you Zair them as normal, then pivot SH so you jump backwards instead of forwards in the same direction as the Zair and then you pull out the 6 frame Bair. It should work just as well as Zair to Nair minus the frames it takes to turn around (which isn't much). As for the range on Bair, you'd be surprised. It's not as much as Nair, but it's close. Just have a look at the hitbubbles. So yes, you would have to be slightly closer to them when you Zair and yes it will come out a few frames later, but the thing with Bair is, you can combo out of it whereas Nair just hits them away.
In theory, it should be one of his staple combos. Whether it works as well as it should or not, I'll find out on Friday.
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
I agree that zair to grab almost always works. I suppose for lighter characters you would have to run in closer after zair connects to allow the grab to reach.
Back on the topic of zair > nair (since I missed it),
what is the significance of FF after nair vs DI-ing back and QD?
*brief discussion topic*
Back on the topic of zair > nair (since I missed it),
what is the significance of FF after nair vs DI-ing back and QD?
*brief discussion topic*
Hyro
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2008
- Messages
- 1,386
This is true, i've hit it perfectly before and i got the replay layin around somewhere, youll see it sooner or later
Cheers Hyro! Feel free to post it when you find it.
@ToonySonic: The significance? Well as long as you FF at the right time so you don't receive any more than 2 extra landing frames, I can only say that you FF to speed things up and keep the pressure on in person rather then sending out an arrow (with an arrow, if it hits it hits, if it doesn't it doesn't, either way that's it. Whereas if you keep the pressure on in person, you can do more than 4% and no follow up). The significance of DIing away and Quickdrawing is that it's safer. So one is good for attack, the other for defence. I'm actually not quite sure what you're asking XD. The chances are, you know the answer already and you just aren't sure.
Ok, if we want we can move on to talking about the U-tilt String. I haven't written anything about Zair to Grab yet, as I feel I shouldn't do so until I have tested it properly.
Just a heads up about the U-tilt string, it's quite limited if the opponent knows what they are doing. It works on low percents, you might get 2-4 hits in depending on the character. It can lead to follow ups if you stop it early enough. You may be able to squeeze a few extra U-tilts in if they try to airdodge or attack you asap, by simply stopping for a moment and shielding then react accordingly. If they double jump away, we can hit them with an aerial. If they double jump away with an aerial, it's best that you let them go and then take advantage of them being in the air without a double jump. I'm not sure how reliable U-tilt to Bair is, but if it's going to work, I'd imagine you'd need to stop the chain one U-tilt early before they get hit too far away.
Anything else you want to add to that? Anything you'd like to reinforce? Anything you disagree with?
Also, it's very important that I get some feedback about what we should discuss next. Are there any other 'Staple combos' that we should discuss?
@ToonySonic: The significance? Well as long as you FF at the right time so you don't receive any more than 2 extra landing frames, I can only say that you FF to speed things up and keep the pressure on in person rather then sending out an arrow (with an arrow, if it hits it hits, if it doesn't it doesn't, either way that's it. Whereas if you keep the pressure on in person, you can do more than 4% and no follow up). The significance of DIing away and Quickdrawing is that it's safer. So one is good for attack, the other for defence. I'm actually not quite sure what you're asking XD. The chances are, you know the answer already and you just aren't sure.
Ok, if we want we can move on to talking about the U-tilt String. I haven't written anything about Zair to Grab yet, as I feel I shouldn't do so until I have tested it properly.
Just a heads up about the U-tilt string, it's quite limited if the opponent knows what they are doing. It works on low percents, you might get 2-4 hits in depending on the character. It can lead to follow ups if you stop it early enough. You may be able to squeeze a few extra U-tilts in if they try to airdodge or attack you asap, by simply stopping for a moment and shielding then react accordingly. If they double jump away, we can hit them with an aerial. If they double jump away with an aerial, it's best that you let them go and then take advantage of them being in the air without a double jump. I'm not sure how reliable U-tilt to Bair is, but if it's going to work, I'd imagine you'd need to stop the chain one U-tilt early before they get hit too far away.
Anything else you want to add to that? Anything you'd like to reinforce? Anything you disagree with?
Also, it's very important that I get some feedback about what we should discuss next. Are there any other 'Staple combos' that we should discuss?
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2008
- Messages
- 10,050
The Utilt string depends on the weight of the character I guess.
If you're doing it on a very light character, I'm not even sure if you'll get a 2nd hit, even at low percents (this is one of the things I want you to test out, Fox). However, on heavier characters, you can line up like 2 or 3 Utilts assuming you're spaced well.
Once your opponent has fallen off of the Utilt string, you can follow it up with a Bair chain. Also, you can go into a Utilt chain straight from a DThrow against the right character at the right percents.
Other staple combos would be Bomb to (insert attack), Jab combos (if we have, idk), and our Dtilt to Dsmash that works from like 0% - 3% (in the very unlikely chance that you land it, it could be a gimp).
If you're doing it on a very light character, I'm not even sure if you'll get a 2nd hit, even at low percents (this is one of the things I want you to test out, Fox). However, on heavier characters, you can line up like 2 or 3 Utilts assuming you're spaced well.
Once your opponent has fallen off of the Utilt string, you can follow it up with a Bair chain. Also, you can go into a Utilt chain straight from a DThrow against the right character at the right percents.
Other staple combos would be Bomb to (insert attack), Jab combos (if we have, idk), and our Dtilt to Dsmash that works from like 0% - 3% (in the very unlikely chance that you land it, it could be a gimp).
Yep, we'll know just how much weight and fall speed effect it once I'm done testing it. Should be interesting. The rest is noted. Thanks for the feedback.
As for the Staple combos, I decided that there were way too many Bomb to insert attacks, and so I'll be doing them differently. I won't really need feedback for them. Jab combos? From what I know about our Jab, it doesn't true combo into anything. Possibly something I could find out once and for all. The problem with this is there's a big grey area with Toon's 'combos'. There's a lot that just isn't known for sure and hasn't been tested properly. Hopefully I'll be able to shed some light on to it. I'll experiment with a few things to see if any of them can't be escaped by some characters and I'll try a few Jab related combos while I'm at it.
D-tilt to D-smash? This is news to me. This works? If it does then that's amazing XD. I'll look into this. I wouldn't call it a staple combo, but if it works, it'll be included somehow. Again, great feedback.
My mind is constantly changing on how I'm going to set it all out, but it's gonna be good no matter how I do it. What might happen is with something like Zair to Bair, if I find out it's a true combo at certain percents, I'll open up a discussion about it. Until then, we are basically done our discussion about the combos (except for the U-tilt string) unless someone can think of another Staple combo to discuss. So it's really up to me to get the combo section done. I'll let you know when I need some more discussion.
Feel free to keep talking about the U-tilt Chain, especially if you haven't said anything yet. Also, seeing as this appears to be the end of the staple combos (again, if someone mentions another one, it's not the end), you may go back and discuss any staple combos that you missed (seeing as this was all done so quickly). So if there's anything you want to know about them, just ask, and if there's anything you want to say about them, feel free to.
I plan to do a big update on Friday night, but this relies on the smash meet being on, so it may take much longer.
As for the Staple combos, I decided that there were way too many Bomb to insert attacks, and so I'll be doing them differently. I won't really need feedback for them. Jab combos? From what I know about our Jab, it doesn't true combo into anything. Possibly something I could find out once and for all. The problem with this is there's a big grey area with Toon's 'combos'. There's a lot that just isn't known for sure and hasn't been tested properly. Hopefully I'll be able to shed some light on to it. I'll experiment with a few things to see if any of them can't be escaped by some characters and I'll try a few Jab related combos while I'm at it.
D-tilt to D-smash? This is news to me. This works? If it does then that's amazing XD. I'll look into this. I wouldn't call it a staple combo, but if it works, it'll be included somehow. Again, great feedback.
My mind is constantly changing on how I'm going to set it all out, but it's gonna be good no matter how I do it. What might happen is with something like Zair to Bair, if I find out it's a true combo at certain percents, I'll open up a discussion about it. Until then, we are basically done our discussion about the combos (except for the U-tilt string) unless someone can think of another Staple combo to discuss. So it's really up to me to get the combo section done. I'll let you know when I need some more discussion.
Feel free to keep talking about the U-tilt Chain, especially if you haven't said anything yet. Also, seeing as this appears to be the end of the staple combos (again, if someone mentions another one, it's not the end), you may go back and discuss any staple combos that you missed (seeing as this was all done so quickly). So if there's anything you want to know about them, just ask, and if there's anything you want to say about them, feel free to.
I plan to do a big update on Friday night, but this relies on the smash meet being on, so it may take much longer.
That's still awsome. I wonder if it's unavoidable at certain percents. I'd imagine it works because of the IASA frames in D-tilt and then comboing into our fastest smash that has good range, yeah I can see that working. It makes me wonder whether D-tilt could combo into anything else at really low percents.
Oh. Well that's a bit dissapointing. Here I was thinking that I'd actually missed something. Because tripping isn't a guaranteed thing, then we can't call it a combo.
Anyway, were there any other thoughts or questions about any of the combos we've talked about so far? If you missed a discussion, then this is your chance.
Anyway, were there any other thoughts or questions about any of the combos we've talked about so far? If you missed a discussion, then this is your chance.
NH Cody
Smash Champion
Well, I guess I did know part of it.
But I never would have thought that FF could be used to put pressure on my opponent, you hit the nail on the head by saying that, so thanks. You answered my question perfectly.
I think there would be more to discuss once we figure out the percents and the characters on whom we can perform these combos.
MJG
Smash Hero
Ya. Even if your opponent Air dodges to the ground, the 2nd part of the HookShot will grab the opponent.
MaskedAvnger
Smash Journeyman
Utilt chain, character fall speed would be as important as weight, imo.
Characters that aren't the heaviest, but fall fast (Fox, Falco, Sheik, Wolf, Squirtle) are chainable because thier fall speed, combined with the knockback at low percentage keep them in range of the utilt, not for as long as the heavy characters like bowser or snake, but you can get 2-3, maybe even 4 on them.
Characters that aren't the heaviest, but fall fast (Fox, Falco, Sheik, Wolf, Squirtle) are chainable because thier fall speed, combined with the knockback at low percentage keep them in range of the utilt, not for as long as the heavy characters like bowser or snake, but you can get 2-3, maybe even 4 on them.
DUB
Smash Lord
U-tilt has just enough shield push where characters with average grabrange will not be able to reach TL and will get hit by the 2nd up-tilt. Easy way to get a KO on greedy SG'ers.
DUB
Smash Lord
It is more a less a way of getting a kill if someone's going for a SG.
MJG
Smash Hero
Iofsauron
Smash Journeyman
Not no..... NEVA!!!!!!
Thebest1pj
Pinnacle of Projectile Placement.
i think DUBs right i dunno about shield push but most people drop their shield then get hit by another uptlt lol....
DUB
Smash Lord
I know MK,Lucario, Kirby, characters with grab range similar to these characters.
Remzi
formerly VaBengal
Help me out guys.
I team with a TL for dubs, and both of our characters have major problems killing.
At our last tourney for example, we were eliminated by a Snake/D3 team. They were living to 180 each almost every stock, its incredibly frustrating and hard to deal with.
We have great chemistry and rack up damage together really fast, but when it comes time to kill, we just can't get it done.
We try setting each other up via grabs and what not, but this is tough to do consistently if both of them are alive.
What do you guys recommend we do to get these kills in earlier?
I team with a TL for dubs, and both of our characters have major problems killing.
At our last tourney for example, we were eliminated by a Snake/D3 team. They were living to 180 each almost every stock, its incredibly frustrating and hard to deal with.
We have great chemistry and rack up damage together really fast, but when it comes time to kill, we just can't get it done.
We try setting each other up via grabs and what not, but this is tough to do consistently if both of them are alive.
What do you guys recommend we do to get these kills in earlier?
MJG
Smash Hero
Use MK with TL.
Or...grab with marth and let TL up smash...idk...
Use MK with TL in my honest opinion.
Or...grab with marth and let TL up smash...idk...
Use MK with TL in my honest opinion.
MK and Tl does work the best IMO , but i also teamed with a snake a few times. its pretty handy if you know how he plays. use his nades to your advantage and hit your opponent into snakes uptilt for early kills.