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The Teachy TV: Ivysaur Video and Critique Thread

chenjesu

chenjesu

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There's a few times when you could have ledgehop naired him. Also try f-tilt it's good for mix ups.
 
No U

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Yeah I've been finding more opportunities for ftilts lately, and killing people with stun spore, or 'stun starring' them all the time
 
TheReflexWonder

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I haven't, because I never really thought about it before yesterday. It's incredibly simple and the benefits seem obvious, however. No reason not to; makes it even easier to manage your edgeguards.
 
Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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Well, my next tournament that will definitely have PM isn't until April 20th, so if you get a chance to try it out against people before than let us know your results
 
TheReflexWonder

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I don't understand what there is to "try out." Most (if not all) of the benefits of these options are incredibly apparent. It's not a thing that really needs experimenting with, it's a thing that all Ivysaur players should be making the most out of.

F-Air is the most versatile edgeguarding option by a longshot because the opponent either DIs toward you and gets hit with a N-Air/D-Air/U-Air/whatever, or they DI away and you get another F-Air or a Forward-B. The edge-canceling just makes it easier to land when edgeguarding on-stage.

When doing it that way, you can combo into stuff you normally couldn't. Edge-cancel F-Air -> D-Smash/D-Air is a true combo at lower percents when they're close to the ledge, making for a nice gimping option. Also, this can really help against unpredictable recoveries, since timing for a F-Air doesn't have to be as strict to intercept enemies.

As for the platform stuff, run-off D-Air -> land-on-the-platform N-Air/U-Air could be alright for remaining a threat on the platform and getting a combo on people who aren't careful enough. Still, it's mostly overshadowed by F-Air, which hits in front and below, and the edge-canceled F-Air is great in the same way.

EDIT: My livestream videos are not on the front page.
 
TheReflexWonder

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I think she gets destroyed as long as the opponent (ab)uses his character's superior mobility.
 
Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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SKEET SHADY said:
critique me if you have time reflex, my wfs werent recorded but i won those then lost these

http://www.twitch.tv/umsmash/b/384593846
Click to expand...
I remember watching you on stream, you were really good,very impressive.

Only thing I remember thinking is that some of your seed bombs seemed pointless, and occasionally when M2K was at death percent you started trying to rush the kill.

I'm sure Reflex will be able to provide a better critique.
 
TheReflexWonder

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Your combo game is lacking. You seem to rely on D-Air for comboing, both on throws and just by itself, too often. When you start a runjump D-Air, the opponent knows (or, at least, SHOULD know) that you're going to end up far forward, so teching toward where you started ends your combo immediately, and if it's shielded, most characters can jump out and hit you easily. If you're getting away with it, that's because people haven't adjusted to the amount of shieldstun, but, rest assured, it's not safe in most cases.

If you're comboing fastfallers, U-Air is almost always a better follow-up for a reliable combo, as you end up right below the opponent and can quickly follow up flexibly. N-Air is also really underrated for combos; it sends people in the perfect position to be D-Tilted or grabbed at lower percents, and comboing N-Air into N-Air isn't difficult to do against most characters, either.

Don't U-Smash unless it's specifically as a KO move or an anti-air, as you can't really combo off of it, it doesn't do that much damage, and it's not as safe as most other options. Get into the habit of using a shuffled F-Air, U-Tilt, or jump-canceled grab (depending on the situation).

You weren't really respecting Sheik/Falco's superior close-range game. Falco can F-Smash for free, and the standard pokes eat Ivysaur alive. Try not to stay in that area unless you've already created an advantageous position with one of your pokes.
 
ScaryPixel

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I really want to get some vids up of my own Ivy but there aren't enough people on LI who stream/record matches. :(
 
ScaryPixel

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avalancer988 said:
Went to Ace's tournament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=navMDnl0w_0 me vs ace
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz7tcKMwML4me vs faab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wKQgNkSQygme vs ace again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbMbNOVGJ1w me vs fays (only now i've learned how to chaingrab spacies with Ivy, didn't realise it was possible)
Criticize me :D
Click to expand...
O nice, there's no background music which means I can keep listening to my stuff. I'll take a quick look.

EDITED:
Ace (Wario/Charizard/Bowser) vs Avalancer (Ivysaur) Winners Semis

Game One -

00:11 - Approaching too soon. Wario can gap close very quickly in the air, I suggest hanging back and throwing the razor leaf defensively.

00:30 good punish. :D

00:40 You're good at juggling/spacing in the air.

1:30 I liked how you wavedashed around and baited him to **** up his spacing. Dsmash would've likely killed, so I understand why you went for it. He usually shields after landing (see 01:22), so grab would've been the safer choice.

01:33 lol...

01:55 good reads, good juggle. yeh

02:12 There was a Chunky Dunk opportunity throughout this exchange.

3:04 Welp.

Game Two -

04:48 if you ran right into the center of Charizard and quickly upsmashed with c stick, you would've gotten the sweet spot which does more damage and heals you. It's pretty much guarenteed on bigger targets.

5:05 got up too early, just wait till Charizard ****s up.

5:18 You should've waited till in the middle of his second jump to Chunky Dunk him. Was safe.

6:30 that was unsafe. Luckily he didn't capitalize on you whiffing fair. Be very careful when throwing your fair, if they can get behind it then it's punishable. Nair would've been safer and you could safely ftilt if they chase you.

7:09 CHUUUUNKY DUUUUUUNK :awesome: but he died anyway, so whatever. Could've crushed his soul.

7:15 good mix up

7:31 wat hapened nex doh

I'll look at more after I head over to a smashfest.
 
Avalancer

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ScaryPixel said:
5:05 got up too early, just wait till Charizard ****s up.
Click to expand...
Ace knows what to do against Ivys. You can wait all you want but it's so easy to see when exactly ivy comes up so waiting doesn't really help. Going in quick is usually unexpected
ScaryPixel said:
6:30 that was unsafe. Luckily he didn't capitalize on you whiffing fair. Be very careful when throwing your fair, if they can get behind it then it's punishable. Nair would've been safer and you could safely ftilt if they chase you.
Click to expand...
input error :urg: wanted to do a nair

ScaryPixel said:
7:09 CHUUUUNKY DUUUUUUNK :awesome: but he died anyway, so whatever. Could've crushed his soul.
Click to expand...
I was afraid of using it because I kept missing it, but looking at it now it would be pretty safe and beneficial
 
ScaryPixel

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avalancer988 said:
Ace knows what to do against Ivys. You can wait all you want but it's so easy to see when exactly ivy comes up so waiting doesn't really help. Going in quick is usually unexpected
Click to expand...
Not always. I've noticed from personal experiences that if I wait it out and hang under the stage for a second or two, the opponent will expect me to get up quickly and leave the ledge too early. It's a good mix up. =)
Faab (Squirtle) vs Avalancer (Ivysaur)


Game One -

I think that adding Wavedash>ftilt into your ground game would help outspace Squirtle(or other characters). Consider doing it instead of dash attacking as a mix up, plus it's safer on shied than DA is.

Get into the habit of sweet spot usmashing after seed bomb dazes someone. It's one of Ivy's best kill moves. Not only that but it provides the most ticks to solarbeam than any other move.

I felt like you could've used your solarbeam more often this match. Whenever it's on cooldown, you could be healing and forcing squirtle to approach you. Whenever Sb is up, I found bullet bombing then using solarbeam to cover your opponents escape options to be ridiculous. :D

To "adjust" solarbeam's position, I'll sometimes SH away from my opponent while they're in the air, then tap towards their direction and quickly solarbeam. Very effective, forces your opponent into unsafe options and possibly a death.

Game Two -

you switched to Zelda omfsdklgj



on a side note, if you enjoyed my critique's of your matches and found them useful, I could take a look at the rest whenever I have the freetime.
 
ScaryPixel

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owait, you switched back to Ivy game three. my bad :D

Game three, you did overall better than you did game one. Harrassed and spaced better. Usmash kills were way better (but sweet spotting the usmash instead of charging it is safer; mashing out beats charging upsmash)
Glad you abused heal off ledge more in this match, I love doing that too. :3

16:48 UNFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

At early percentages, if you backthrow certain characters off stage, you could immediately chunky dunk them and gimp them a stock. Squirtle, Spacies, and Falcon/Ganon are probably the easiest (off the top of my head) to do that to IMO.
 
Avalancer

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ScaryPixel said:
on a side note, if you enjoyed my critique's of your matches and found them useful, I could take a look at the rest whenever I have the freetime.
Click to expand...
That would be nice. You pointed out some mistakes I wouldn't have seen myself, so they are pretty useful ^^
 
TheReflexWonder

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It's worth noting that most of Ivysaur's multi-hit moves lose to Squirtle's Forward-B, N-Air, and general shell armor. Ivysaur has to be careful about that.
 
ScaryPixel

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Hokai, next one

Ace (Bowser) vs Avalancer (Ivysaur) Losers Final


Just work on using Solarbeam whenever the opportunity exists, and get into the habit of using Chunky Dunk. It works on characters with weak vertical recoveries such as DK and Bowser.

Only thing noticeable on the first watch was that you should be more careful when Bowser is getting up from the ledge at 0-99%.

Also, I would avoid battlefield as a stage pick for Ivy. It's not that it's a "bad" stage for her, however seed bomb isn't as useful on this stage compared to SV, FD, Yoshi's Island, Dreamland imo.
Game Two -

Putting up a wall of seed bombs for too long. Once you have two seed bombs in the air and you're in a good position, you should go for nair/bair and try to knock your opponent into the seed bombs. I've had plenty of games where one seed will knock my opponent (probably from bad DI) into the next seed bomb to a ceiling kill.

You could also go for grabs if a seed bomb is above you and your opponent. If they shield, free grab + damage from seed, if they try to challenge it, they either get put to sleep or knocked into the air. unless they're smart and they use grab armor to ignore the seed bomb and punish you but no one does that yet so shhhhhhh

Using uair to bring yourself below the stage is okay in certain situations, but not when the opponent is edge guarding you. You should use fair/razor leaf to prevent them from controlling the ledge.

Whenever you're edge guarding and you're on the ledge, you always jump and bair(which isn't bad but it doesn't cover everything). You should also try and move away from the stage (without jumping), then bair. You could also let go of the ledge, jump+bair, then come back immediately to adjust the height of the edge guard tool.

I noticed that you rarely used grab in this set, meanwhile pivot grab covers most of Bowser's approach options. x:

Game Three 13:15- LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO I knew exactly what you were going for and I've had that happened to me in a friendly. it sucked.

I'll go over the last one later.
 
Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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Wow, nice find Reflex, I wasn't aware you could hit the Links' bombs with a Dair without them exploding and get the heal (would have helped me in a bracket match over the weekend, lost to a Toon Link player >_<)
 
TheReflexWonder

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If a Link or Toon Link is just throwing bombs at you, your bulb will not realistically be in position to sweetspot them unless you catch them in mid-air and put them in a proper position, yourself. That said, it's good to keep in mind.
 
ScaryPixel

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Going to practice this asap. There are wayyyy too many Links in my region, and suddenly I don't mind. :D
 
TheReflexWonder

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Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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Finally got a chance to play a tournament match on stream today.

http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/402216778 go to 2:54:00 approximately (it starts a bit after that)

It's myself vs Unknown522 (Ganondorf). If somebody could give me a critique that would be helpful.

Some things I noticed myself was that at his 3rd stock of game on and beyond that I started playing really impatient and took a lot of damage because of it. I think if I had slowed things down I would have been able to win :(.
 
ScaryPixel

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Shiny Mewtwo said:
Finally got a chance to play a tournament match on stream today.

http://www.twitch.tv/acgamesonline/b/402216778 go to 2:54:00 approximately (it starts a bit after that)

It's myself vs Unknown522 (Ganondorf). If somebody could give me a critique that would be helpful.

Some things I noticed myself was that at his 3rd stock of game on and beyond that I started playing really impatient and took a lot of damage because of it. I think if I had slowed things down I would have been able to win :(.
Click to expand...
Fact: Every stream commentator is astonished that Ivysaur is good in P:M. Every. Single. One.

Stop approaching with Razor Leaf, if he power shields it, you're taking free damage. Just use it as a spacing tool. If they hold shield, apply more shield pressure until you can poke their shield or get a grab. If they get hit, either grab or fair them while they're in hit-stun.

Use Nair A LOT more. Fair is safer for spacing, don't use it to approach. Stop dash grabbing.
 
Dng3

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Reflex, you are my favourite Ivysaur player and I love watching your videos. Simply awesome man =).
 
Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir

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