The Solid Snake for Smash DLC thread! Such a lust for Smash news....WHOOOOOOOO?

[cmbsfm]

Yeah, but that was when the Wii was the clear winner of that console generation. Both the wii and the ds were printing money, so they didn't have to worry about promoting their competitors. In fact, ps3 was the third place console of that gen, so it was a safe move. You didn't see any characters from xbox franchises in brawl, did you? But now that the console war is close, nintendo probably wouldn't want to risk giving anything to their competitors.

We didn't see any playstation franchises either. Metal gear is owned by konami. Majority of people who own a wii u or 3ds also own a secondary platform. There would be a little increase in ps or Xbox sales just because snake is in the game.

 

[_Magus_]

The Xbox and Xbox 360 had dismal sales figures in Japan. Keiji Inafune has suggested that consumer nationalism played a role in Japan's rejection of the Xbox brand (its rivals, the PlayStation 3 and the Wii, were both made by domestic companies).

What sounds more likely:

Adding a character from a successful third party game, from a console made in the same country of origin, Japan, and whose respective directors for each game(Masahiro Sakurai and Hideo Kojima) are very good friends().

Adding a character from a successful third party game, from a console that was not only doing poorly in Japan, but is a gateway to genres that are seen as niche(wholly first person shooters, for example, so no Metal Gear game counts despite having the feature, more Call Of Duty-esque games), AND was widely rejected in the same country(Master Chief, for example)?

I'll let you decide, since I assume you might as well have known your facts before suggesting that frigging Xbox characters ever stood a chance of making it in.

Oh, and for the record, Sakurai could care less for console wars, so bringing them up is pointless.

We didn't see any playstation franchises either. Metal gear is owned by konami. Majority of people who own a wii u or 3ds also own a secondary platform. There would be a little increase in ps or Xbox sales just because snake is in the game.

Good points, Kudos to both of you. But regardless, no one seems to address my point about the hardware. Could the wii u really handle 8 snakes, their explosives, all items (assist trophies and pokemon included) on high frequency, on the Great Cave Offensive? Not only does the Wii u have to load the assets and stuff, but it also has to make trajectory calculations based on knockback scaling. Plus, from what I've heard, there are a lot of other calculations in Smash behind the scenes, like for landing lag and stuff. Could the Wii U possibly process all of this at the same time?

Edit: The Ice Climbers were cut for technical reasons on the 3DS. It stands to reason that if in fact this is the case, Snake could be cut for the very same reason.

I don't hate Snake. He's one of my favorite Smash characters, and one of my favorite video game characters ever. But I haven't received satisfactory answers on some things that keep my from believing he could be possible.

 

[chuckthesmashlover]

Good points, Kudos to both of you. But regardless, no one seems to address my point about the hardware. Could the wii u really handle 8 snakes, their explosives, all items (assist trophies and pokemon included) on high frequency, on the Great Cave Offensive? Not only does the Wii u have to load the assets and stuff, but it also has to make trajectory calculations based on knockback scaling. Plus, from what I've heard, there are a lot of other calculations in Smash behind the scenes, like for landing lag and stuff. Could the Wii U possibly process all of this at the same time?

Edit: The Ice Climbers were cut for technical reasons on the 3DS. It stands to reason that if in fact this is the case, Snake could be cut for the very same reason.

I don't hate Snake. He's one of my favorite Smash characters, and one of my favorite video game characters ever. But I haven't received satisfactory answers on some things that keep my from believing he could be possible.

It can handle 8 Duck Hunts. I don't think Snake is much more complex than Duck Hunt.

 

[Ekans647]

Good points, Kudos to both of you. But regardless, no one seems to address my point about the hardware. Could the wii u really handle 8 snakes, their explosives, all items (assist trophies and pokemon included) on high frequency, on the Great Cave Offensive? Not only does the Wii u have to load the assets and stuff, but it also has to make trajectory calculations based on knockback scaling. Plus, from what I've heard, there are a lot of other calculations in Smash behind the scenes. Could the Wii U possibly process all of this at the same time?

Edit: The Ice Climbers were cut for technical reasons on the 3DS. It stands to reason that if in fact this is the case, Snake could be cut for the very same reason.

I don't hate Snake. He's one of my favorite Smash characters, and one of my favorite video game characters ever. But I haven't received satisfactory answers on some things that keep my from believing he could be possible.

I understand your point. It's a good on,e unlike the many others we get. If that is actually a problem, Snake may have been cut for that reason. However, it's still an if. Your argument is based on technical limitations. In a game that can already process GCO, 8 Duck Hunts / Olimar, high item frequency all at the same time makes your argument somewhat unlikely. The hardware on Wii U can handle reasonable online play, in which the Wii U has to work with 3 others that can be placed all around the world and function normally makes it a little harder for me to believe your argument. I'm no expert, but from what I've seen of the Wii U, I believe it could handle Snake.

 

[Quillion]

Good points, Kudos to both of you. But regardless, no one seems to address my point about the hardware. Could the wii u really handle 8 snakes, their explosives, all items (assist trophies and pokemon included) on high frequency, on the Great Cave Offensive? Not only does the Wii u have to load the assets and stuff, but it also has to make trajectory calculations based on knockback scaling. Plus, from what I've heard, there are a lot of other calculations in Smash behind the scenes, like for landing lag and stuff. Could the Wii U possibly process all of this at the same time?

Edit: The Ice Climbers were cut for technical reasons on the 3DS. It stands to reason that if in fact this is the case, Snake could be cut for the very same reason.

I don't hate Snake. He's one of my favorite Smash characters, and one of my favorite video game characters ever. But I haven't received satisfactory answers on some things that keep my from believing he could be possible.

Duck Hunt, Mega Man, and Olimar are all more active than Snake when it comes to filling the screen with stuff. I'm sure he'll still be able to generally play the same as Brawl. Diddy probably had his bananas limited to one at a time because of the 8-player thing (and for balance but...). Snake can still plant one C4 at a time and one landmine, too.

 

[_Magus_]

Duck Hunt, Mega Man, and Olimar are all more active than Snake when it comes to filling the screen with stuff. I'm sure he'll still be able to generally play the same as Brawl. Diddy probably had his bananas limited to one at a time because of the 8-player thing (and for balance but...). Snake can still plant one C4 at a time and one landmine, too.

It can handle 8 Duck Hunts. I don't think Snake is much more complex than Duck Hunt.

I understand your point. It's a good on,e unlike the many others we get. If that is actually a problem, Snake may have been cut for that reason. However, it's still an if. Your argument is based on technical limitations. In a game that can already process GCO, 8 Duck Hunts / Olimar, high item frequency all at the same time makes your argument somewhat unlikely. The hardware on Wii U can handle reasonable online play, in which the Wii U has to work with 3 others that can be placed all around the world and function normally makes it a little harder for me to believe your argument. I'm no expert, but from what I've seen of the Wii U, I believe it could handle Snake.

But the problem is, that's not the case. Theoretically, yes these characters can fill the screen with more stuff, but in actuality they only have out one move at a time. Snake is unique in that his two grenades, c4, down smash, and up smash can all be out at the same time. THAT'S what may cause processing problems. It's just a lot for the wii u to handle at one time. Let's calculate just how many assets the wii u would need to load for the 8 snakes. Just the characters, we're not even getting into items or stages yet.

We have

-8 snakes

-16 Grenades

-8 c4s

-8 down smashes

-8 up smashes

and that's character assets alone. It also has to load animations, make knockback calculations, scale the knockback, etc.
Plus we haven't delved into potential items on high or the strain that the Great Cave Offensive would put on the Wii u in this theoretical situation. That's a LOT. And it's not like the Wii U is the most powerful console ever made.

 

[Quillion]

But the problem is, that's not the case. Theoretically, yes these characters can fill the screen with more stuff, but in actuality they only have out one move at a time. Snake is unique in that his two grenades, c4, down smash, and up smash can all be out at the same time. THAT'S what may cause processing problems. It's just a lot for the wii u to handle at one time. Let's calculate just how many assets the wii u would need to load for the 8 snakes. Just the characters, we're not even getting into items or stages yet.

We have

-8 snakes

-16 Grenades

-8 c4s

-8 down smashes

-8 up smashes

and that's character assets alone. It also has to load animations, make knockback calculations, scale the knockback, etc.
Plus we haven't delved into potential items on high or the strain that the Great Cave Offensive would put on the Wii u in this theoretical situation. That's a LOT. And it's not like the Wii U is the most powerful console ever made.

Limit Snake to one Grenade at a time while making it more powerful. Done.

 

[cmbsfm]

Good points, Kudos to both of you. But regardless, no one seems to address my point about the hardware. Could the wii u really handle 8 snakes, their explosives, all items (assist trophies and pokemon included) on high frequency, on the Great Cave Offensive? Not only does the Wii u have to load the assets and stuff, but it also has to make trajectory calculations based on knockback scaling. Plus, from what I've heard, there are a lot of other calculations in Smash behind the scenes, like for landing lag and stuff. Could the Wii U possibly process all of this at the same time?

Edit: The Ice Climbers were cut for technical reasons on the 3DS. It stands to reason that if in fact this is the case, Snake could be cut for the very same reason.

I don't hate Snake. He's one of my favorite Smash characters, and one of my favorite video game characters ever. But I haven't received satisfactory answers on some things that keep my from believing he could be possible.

I feel like he could be re-balanced to work on 8-player smash/3ds 4-player.

-8 snakes

-16 Grenades

-8 c4s

-8 down smashes

-8 up smashes

They could limit the number of grenades to 1. After all, the wii u could handle 8 sheik grenades, no?
I don't think c4s or mines could be a problem, they won't do anything unless triggered. What's the probability that all snakes will be able to trigger their mines or c4 at the same time? I don't see how having around 32 projectile(40 if snake can still throw 2 grenades), and half of which won't do anything until triggered, would be more harder for the wii u to process than 24 pikmin who have to follow their respective player.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

But the problem is, that's not the case. Theoretically, yes these characters can fill the screen with more stuff, but in actuality they only have out one move at a time. Snake is unique in that his two grenades, c4, down smash, and up smash can all be out at the same time. THAT'S what may cause processing problems. It's just a lot for the wii u to handle at one time. Let's calculate just how many assets the wii u would need to load for the 8 snakes. Just the characters, we're not even getting into items or stages yet.

We have

-8 snakes

-16 Grenades

-8 c4s

-8 down smashes

-8 up smashes

and that's character assets alone. It also has to load animations, make knockback calculations, scale the knockback, etc.
Plus we haven't delved into potential items on high or the strain that the Great Cave Offensive would put on the Wii u in this theoretical situation. That's a LOT. And it's not like the Wii U is the most powerful console ever made.

Sakurai stated that Ice Climbers worked perfectly fine on Wii U. That's 16 playable characters on one screen, I highly, highly doubt that Snakes gameplay elements would be anywhere near a problem for the Wii U to handle. Want to know how powerful the Wii U really is? Play Bayonetta 2 on 3rd climax.

 

[_Magus_]

Sakurai stated that Ice Climbers worked perfectly fine on Wii U. That's 16 playable characters on one screen, I highly, highly doubt that Snakes gameplay elements would be anywhere near a problem for the Wii U to handle. Want to know how powerful the Wii U really is? Play Bayonetta 2 on 3rd climax.

It's not just snake's tho. It's all the possible stuff flying on the screen at once, and all the calculations the wii u would have to make. But I haven't played Bayonetta 2, so I could be wrong.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

It's not just snake's tho. It's all the possible stuff flying on the screen at once, and all the calculations the wii u would have to make. But I haven't played Bayonetta 2, so I could be wrong.

Watch a gameplay video the entire game runs at 1080p, 60fps(?) Could be 30 but its absolutely gorgeous and has the most dynamic fights, backgrounds, enemies, bosses, etc. And keeps a absolutely stunning frame rate in all of these scenes.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I wonder if no one mentioning why Snake got cut is a good sign. If they weren't hiding something, then maybe they'd just say it?

Imgraspingatstrawshere;_;

 

[N3ON]

Honestly I figure it's because Sakurai just didn't offer to bring him back and Kojima didn't ask this time.

I am ofc just guessing, but I don't think it's anything more complicated than that.

 

[etecoon]

Anyone else not very optimistic about what Snake would be like in this game even if they did a DLC for him? There's no DACUS, the changes to Diddy's naners and ZSS armor pieces show a tendency towards not allowing characters to bring a lot of their own items in, the changes to Ganondorf's flame choke and G&W's down throw are indicative that the oki throws aren't favored in this iteration of smash...no grab armor too so nade grabbing would be less viable. Just seems like if Snake did get added he could easily lose a lot of what made him fun in Brawl

 

[Ekans647]

Anyone else not very optimistic about what Snake would be like in this game even if they did a DLC for him? There's no DACUS, the changes to Diddy's naners and ZSS armor pieces show a tendency towards not allowing characters to bring a lot of their own items in, the changes to Ganondorf's flame choke and G&W's down throw are indicative that the oki throws aren't favored in this iteration of smash...no grab armor too so nade grabbing would be less viable. Just seems like if Snake did get added he could easily lose a lot of what made him fun in Brawl

Eh, maybe. You bring up a good point. Snake is different though because his play style revolves around his explosives, more than any of the characters you listed did. Plus, the aforementioned characters all got buffs to compensate for their removal of item play, so it's very likely the same will happen to Snake. The D-throw I'll agree with though. I think our soldier will be fine.

 

[_Magus_]

Watch a gameplay video the entire game runs at 1080p, 60fps(?) Could be 30 but its absolutely gorgeous and has the most dynamic fights, backgrounds, enemies, bosses, etc. And keeps a absolutely stunning frame rate in all of these scenes.

True, but the thing about smash is that the flying stuff isn't preprogrammed. The physics engine makes calculations based on knockback and trajectory, and that determines where a character flies when they get hit. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the stuff in that scene is preprogrammed, and so doesn't put as big of a hardware strain on the console. Remember, snake can have all those projectiles out at once, and that has the potential to cause a lot of calculations for the physics engine. Even more so with all the items on. The reason Bayonetta 2 can do all that stuff IMO is bc it's preprogrammed. Smash isn't.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

True, but the thing about smash is that the flying stuff isn't preprogrammed. The physics engine makes calculations based on knockback and trajectory, and that determines where a character flies when they get hit. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the stuff in that scene is preprogrammed, and so doesn't put as big of a hardware strain on the console. Remember, snake can have all those projectiles out at once, and that has the potential to cause a lot of calculations for the physics engine. Even more so with all the items on. The reason Bayonetta 2 can do all that stuff IMO is bc it's preprogrammed. Smash isn't.

The point I'm trying to make here is that the Wii U is much more powerful than you think. It can easily run Ice Climbers on Wii U, according to Sakurai, and if you're talking about on screen elements imagine all 16 of those Ice Climbers using their side-b, that's 16 free-moving ice cubes on screen at one time with 16 playable models on screen at the same time. Sakurai did state that the Ice Climbers worked fine, but again that's just his word for whatever his word is worth.

 

[_Magus_]

The point I'm trying to make here is that the Wii U is much more powerful than you think. It can easily run Ice Climbers on Wii U, according to Sakurai, and if you're talking about on screen elements imagine all 16 of those Ice Climbers using their side-b, that's 16 free-moving ice cubes on screen at one time with 16 playable models on screen at the same time. Sakurai did state that the Ice Climbers worked fine, but again that's just his word for whatever his word is worth.

I see. Well, I guess we'll find out eventually.

 

[cmbsfm]

Honestly I figure it's because Sakurai just didn't offer to bring him back and Kojima didn't ask this time.

I am ofc just guessing, but I don't think it's anything more complicated than that.

I think this is the reason. Maybe both were waiting for each other to come and ask.And by the time Kojima spoke about in the livestream, it was obviously too late.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Honestly I figure it's because Sakurai just didn't offer to bring him back and Kojima didn't ask this time.

I am ofc just guessing, but I don't think it's anything more complicated than that.

Pretty much what @ N3ON is saying here. I completely agree, and this is likely the simplest of outcomes. Remember, Kojima even basically .said, "I haven't been asked"

But, THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO FREAK OUT AND MAKE SURE EVERYBODY KNOWS SNAKE SHOULD COME BACK!. You know, because he's great...and stuff. No really though, follow the Twitter account and mention it wherever you can (preferably where it makes sense to do so). Sure it's just social media and it may amount to nothing. But at least we're doing SOMETHING.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I think they've had to take notice that people want Snake (as well as Wolf, Ice Climbers & Lucas) back, why else would they name call Snake during the Smash Direct?

 

[Ekans647]

I honestly think Snake has the highest chance of returning. Lucas' and Wolf's special moves are delegated to Ness and Fox. IC's have technical limitations. Snake isn't bound by any of those since he is unique. If an agreement was never made (or was never even considered) between Sakurai and Kojima, it could easily be made, just like with Brawl.

 

[Megadoomer]

One thing I saw recently that gives me hope, from E3 2006: (emphasis is mine)

Nintendo: Did Nintendo approach Konami about Super Smash Bros. or was it the other way around?

Masahiro Sakurai: Actually, what really brought about the Snake character was from a conversation I was having back when I was developing the Smash Bros. game for GameCube when Hideo Kojima phoned me and practically begged me to put Snake in the game, saying please, put him in there, I want him in there!

But at that time we were already deep in development and I was thinking I wasn't able to get him in there and that we'd probably be making another Smash Bros. game afterward, so I kind of gave up on the idea and said it's too bad you hadn't brought this up earlier. And that was kind of the end of the story. But when this project came up, because Mr Kojima had contacted me, we reinitiated talks and managed to put Snake in this time.

It's not so much a corporate level discussion but really more on a personal level between myself and Mr Kojima, but obviously a lot of people have been interested in the introduction of other characters in the Smash Bros. games, and Sonic has been brought up many, many times. Part of it is you have to have someone you can trust to take care of your character and do your character good, so we're looking at various possibilities. There are probably possibilities for other third-party characters as well, and it may be that even now there are corporate discussions going on at a high level about what characters to include, but maybe we'll talk to you about that a little bit later.

Right now Snake is the only third-party character that has been confirmed for Super Smash Bros., but I think because we've announced Snake is in Super Smash Bros. that might open up opportunities for other third-party characters to also be included.

But more than anything it's not just about having a character, but about having a character that's going to be fun to have in there.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/i_miyamotosakurai?page=2

It seems to indicate (to me, at least) that if Kojima can get in touch with Sakurai, and Sakurai's okay with it, it should be possible for Snake to be a DLC character.

 

[Wintropy]

Gonna be honest here. I think the only thing standing in Snake's way right now is whether or not there will be future DLC. I can't think of any reasons why he wouldn't be considered beyond that. Especially if, as Sakurai says, it was just Kojima asking him as a friend, and not an actual licensing agreement between the companies.

And I do have high hopes for DLC. I think we shall see our camo-clad comrade crawl back onto the battlefield in time.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I think they've had to take notice that people want Snake back, why else would they name call Snake during the Smash Direct?

To clear things up about Palutena's Guidance, maybe? They had nothing else to compare the ripoffs it within Smash.

But at this point, we only have post-Mewtwo DLC possibilities to hope for. And Kojima himself requesting Snake.

 

[cmbsfm]

I wonder if Sakurai did catch wind of Kojima's statement on the livestream. It was all over gaming sites, he should have saw it.

 

[Nonno Umby]

I wonder if Sakurai did catch wind of Kojima's statement on the livestream. It was all over gaming sites, he should have saw it.

I would bet he had. It was a livestream mostly about MGS V, and I think that Sakurai is at least interested in his friend's new game (especially cosidering that Sakurai is a MG fan).

 

[bound_for_earth]

I would bet he had. It was a livestream mostly about MGS V, and I think that Sakurai is at least interested in his friend's new game (especially cosidering that Sakurai is a MG fan).

i think we should start a petition on petition.com to get snake back because its showtime

 

[9Blades]

I wonder if Sakurai did catch wind of Kojima's statement on the livestream. It was all over gaming sites, he should have saw it.

What livestream? What did he say? I obviously missed it

 

[Megadoomer]

What livestream? What did he say? I obviously missed it

It was a livestream about Metal Gear Solid V, done in March of last year. Can't find footage of it at the moment, but this is what he had to say:

"I'm not working on that game so I don't know, but I don't think that's likely," said Kojima. "Well, if Mr. Sakurai is watching this, please use Snake."

http://ca.ign.com/articles/2014/03/14/kojima-open-to-snake-returning-in-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u

 

[Twin Shot]

Still holding onto hope here.

If we do get more DLC announced (which I would say is very possible), think we will get Snake/Boss as a playable character released around the same time as MGSV.

Reasons have been covered before, but it is just a smart move for both of the companies to do this.

 

[cmbsfm]

i think we should start a petition on petition.com to get snake back because its showtime

Don't know if a petition would work or not, but I agree it is showtime!

 

[Megadoomer]

It's not Smash Bros. related, but it seems like there might be something to look forward to in the near future:

http://kotaku.com/thats-certainly-a-metal-gear-rising-looking-number-two-1682990045

 

[LIQUID12A]

It's not Smash Bros. related, but it seems like there might be something to look forward to in the near future:

http://kotaku.com/thats-certainly-a-metal-gear-rising-looking-number-two-1682990045

I would become extremely pissed if Raiden got in Smash, impossible as it is.

 

[cmbsfm]

It's not Smash Bros. related, but it seems like there might be something to look forward to in the near future:

http://kotaku.com/thats-certainly-a-metal-gear-rising-looking-number-two-1682990045

Looking forward to a sequel to rising!

 

[SpectreJordan]

I would become extremely pissed if Raiden got in Smash, impossible as it is.

I wouldn't, he was my favorite character in Sony All-Stars.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I wouldn't, he was my favorite character in Sony All-Stars.

Not to mention quite powerful, but not Kat or pre-nerf Isaac Clarke levels of overpowered.

 

[Ekans647]

As far as I know, Raiden doesn't have a game on a Nintendo system. It impossible for him to join smash.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I've been wondering, does Snake Eater 3D run better on the New 3DS? I assume it would but I just wanted to make sure.

 

[Tikivoy]

I've been wondering, does Snake Eater 3D run better on the New 3DS? I assume it would but I just wanted to make sure.

Kind of curious of this as well. Surly someone who's imported a New 3DS have tried that game by now?

Definitely going to be one of the first games I try in 2 weeks though, it deserves to be played on my Monster Hunter 3DS since it got me interested in that series But uh, did MGS3D have custom controls? It would be awkward if they only had default considering it used ZL and ZR to shoot.