Not much of an accomplishment if you ask me. Who are these people?
It's a shame my win against Ally's Falcon went to the trash can.
Those are nothing more than videos where I did well. That's what the video evidence section is for.
The other two? Vermanubis doesn't know the name of one of them, why put up a match as an accomplishment if you don't know who it is you're fighting?
He's a good Sheik that I played at Apex. I just didn't catch his name.
I agree. Verm, you can't just go ahead and make such a thread, let alone the rules for this thread without discussing it with other Ganons. It doesn't work that way.
We're discussing it now. I figure this is the best way, since, if it's just let to two or three Ganons, it'll just be a big argument.
But then why shouldn't the games won with Ganon count for the Ganon PRs?
Also, taking games off of notable players shouldn't count either. It should only be sets.
I didn't finish the job as someone else... I switched TO Ganon, for both sets in question.
Then that's still only a game won as Ganon, not a set.
So you're saying that every single power rankings thread operates under fallacies? Why would every single power ranking thread on SWF--all of which are run by a panel of the most impartial people in each state/region--use rules pretty much the same exact set of guidelines, if these guidelines contained fallacies? Just because you personally disagree with the guidelines doesn't mean they're erroneous.
Most people agree that the standard guidelines for power rankings are the most competitively viable.
In this context. PRs run to determine the highest ranked player. This is character specific.
I bolded the difference between the two quotes. Where did "sets won entirely with Ganon" come in? I said that we should only count sets. Not "sets won entirely with Ganon".
DLA, you have to understand that this is determining the best Ganon. If you won a set without going full Ganon, then that should not count towards being The best
Ganon. Under the premise that PRs only count sets, we should only count sets relevant to Ganon, since this is a
Ganon specific thing. You can't rely on technicalities to earn you a spot as a character you don't fully accomplish things with.
Think about it: what difference is there between if I take a game off of someone as Ganon, and you win a set against them, but only win one game as Ganon? "That's how PRs work" doesn't cut it. If we're going to count wins as other characters for a character-specific election, I want to hear clear, solid reasoning.
PRs DO take characters used into account though. Don't you see characters next to every player's name? And notice how they often change from PR to PR? The panels don't just take a general consensus of what character each player mains. They use tournament data to find out which character the player used to win the most matches. And then they put that character next to the player's name. There was one PR last year where I barely used more MK than Ganon, and they put me down as MK instead of Ganon. They knew I was a Ganon main, but I used more MK so they had to put MK in front.
DLA, you missed my point. I didn't say they don't acknowledge characters, I said they don't take them into account. Beating a ranked player as Ganon does not make a difference to beating them as Meta Knight. PRs work under the premise "If you beat 'em, you beat 'em--with whom is irrelevant."
I've mulled it over, and I think we should just post whatever we think will help us. Posting stuff like beating Nicole in friendlies, and taking Fatal to last hit in a $MM really isn't impressive though... like, I live a state away from Nicole and I beat her all the time. She's even said online that I have a better Ganon after fighting both of us lol. Stuff like that really doesn't belong in this thread IMO--we should be going to quality of our achievements over quantity. But go ahead and post it if you think it will help. I'll be posting achievements of substance instead of padding my resume.
No, I agree. We shouldn't count such things. As far as beating people, I agree that only sets should be counted, because talking about taking games off does seem a bit silly. Also, DLA, I expect a bit more maturity and class than just bluntly saying "So and so said I'm better than you."
All in all, the argument is indefensible. I'm more than willing to append the rules, as I figured they would work themselves out via debate. But I will not budge on the current issue. There is absolutely no reason a character specific award should involve other characters. That makes absolutely no sense. Vex Kasrani isn't ranked for Bowser because he hasn't won sets with Bowser in forever, despite his clear standing as one of the best. No character-specific election in the hands of sound-minded individuals would be run under a half-and-half premise such as the one you propose. There is no sound reasoning as to how taking only one game off someone as Ganon while winning the set using other characters should be counted above taking games off as Ganon in a set you didn't win.
You made it clear we shouldn't count games taken off. So we won't. Sets, videos, representation and consistency are what are to be considered right now. And if anyone believes those to be insufficient grounds for nomination and eligibility, then I welcome them to think of something else. But I highly doubt they will, as those four cover almost every relevant thing possible.
Here is my reasoning for the current voting rules and criteria:
-Accomplishments: Obvious. To be the best at something and prove it, you need to accomplish things. DLA stated he didn't think single games taken off should count. I more or less agree. However, this being a character-specific election, if a set is not won using purely Ganon, I see no defensible reason as to why it should count towards this. No technicalities or semantics can change the fact that beating someone as someone other than Ganon should not be warped and twisted into ranking akin to PRs that ignores character usage on one end, but acknowledges it on the other, e.g. winning a set using two characters.
-Video evidence: Not the most formal way of doing things, but it's at least a bit of a help to kind of see how the person plays. As I stated, tournament matches count the absolute most--far more than friendly videos.
-Consistency: Another obvious one. Placings should not take precedence over anything, as anyone can get a lucky bracket full of nobodies. Unranked losses, in my opinion, should be the ultimate indicator of consistency or inconsistency. If we do decide to selectively choose which PR guidelines we'll follow, then one could say unranked losses should count heavily to the ranking as well.
Representation: Ties into a few other things. Overall how much the person does for Ganon's metagame and how strongly he or she represents them.
I do not possibly see how any person interested in a fair competition and election could contest these criteria. They are ubiquitous judging tools and are entirely impartial, aside from
maybe videos. I posted this thread with the hopes that no one would try to get by on technicalities, otherwise, in my eyes, the criteria is perfectly fair and anyone who takes issue with it is only interested in bending odds in their favor.
).