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The Schoolgirl Famicom Detective, Ayumi Tachibana for Smash Switch (Famicom Detective Club Remakes Coming to the Switch)

Jyl

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Pretty much this, thanks for explaining for me while I was busy. It just really bothers me how he keeps going on about "international" reputation when it isn't so "international" at all.
Like I said, it's Sakurai not having a clear defintion himself on "international" appeal.
For all we know he could simply be biased. If I was the Smash director I certainly would be biased for certain series and characters (Not as much as Sakurai I can promise though);)
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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In Marth's (and Roy's) defense, they actually were supposed to be cut in the international version of Melee, but the testers liked them too much, make of that what you will. But let me point to one specific, often overlooked character which has always made the "international appeal" a joke since day 1: Ness. When Sakurai mentions "international appeal" he means "Japan and the US", but guess what, we never got Earthbound back then and due to the internet being still very young, no one knew who he was either. He was just some weird kid who could shoot fire and had an odd recovery. But did it bother anyone? No, not at all, if anything, him being such an unknown made him all the more appealing.

Just felt like venting about that for a bit, because to me Sakurai's definition of "international" means "NA". If we include the EU into the equation, we'd lose quite a few characters, like Duck Hunt (it never reached the cult status here that it had in the US) or ROB (who is famous for saving the US market, not EU). And to make it even worse for a lot of people, everyone's favorite doll (Geno) shouldn't get in either, due to us never getting SMRPG until the Virtual Console. But as we know by looking at Takamaru, VC releases don't count.

In short, either Sakurai should actually stick to his word and only include characters that were released worldwide during the time frame their actual games were released and not on VC... or drop that stupid rule and get over that weird self-imposed restriction. Either commit to your word or don't enforce it, but don't be so wishy-washy about it.
This is a good point and I agree with all of it.

What he needs to understand is that not all characters need to be someone the whole world can recognize. Tatsunoko s Capcom is a good example of this. Half of then Tatsunoko anime ain't known or localized in the West, but game sold well and fighting game fans of the West loved it regardless.

We can hope that Sakurai can change this stance soon.
 
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Jyl

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This is a good point and I agree with all of it.

What he needs to understand is that not all characters need to be someone the whole world can recognize. Tatsunoko s Capcom is a good example of this. Half of then Tatsunoko anime ain't known or localized in the West, but game sold well and fighting game fans of the West loved it regardless.

We can hope that Sakurai can change this stance soon.
I liked that game because it introduced me to many underrated Tatsunoko gems. It really helped expose obscure stuff to the West and I hoped more developers took notice and tried something similar.
Someone like Nintendo please...
Also Captain Rainbow is another decent example but that's Japan only. Bummer.
 
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Oh Tatsunoko, I was so close to buying it, but then they announced they had to cut a character from the western releases. Sucks that it was exactly the character that made me want to buy the game in the first place: Hakushon Daimaou/Bob in a bottle. Man, that show, together with Bumpety Boo and Three Little Ghosts, were the Anime of my childhood long before I even knew what Anime was, so I was really looking forward to seeing him again... or so I thought at least.

Like I said, it's Sakurai not having a clear defintion himself on "international" appeal.
For all we know he could simply be biased. If I was the Smash director I certainly would be biased for certain series and characters (Not as much as Sakurai I can promise though);)
Yeah, being biased is simply natural, I admit I'd be biased regarding forgotten retro characters. I still think it's a crime that Sukapon, Nintendo's OG fighter is simply an Assist Trophy. Though it's not even being biased that bothers me, that's simply human nature, it's that he makes up rules which he doesn't follow himself. Comes across as somewhat hypocritical. But to be honest, I can't even be mad, Ultimate looks so good. So much more aggressive and fast paced. Also every character is back and we got some big, heavily requested newcomers with K.Rool and Ridley.
 

BlueSectorMirage

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I just think he doesn't want to be the one to explain why a Japanese schoolgirl is a fighter in Smash and deal with the fans' reactions to her getting in over some other probably more desired characters.
 
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WiiFit Trainer alone makes that point moot, as she was specifically added as a WTF character that no one would guess. So adding unexpected characters has never been something Sakurai is shy of doing. Not to mention, Mr. G&W and ROB weren't exactly highly requested characters either. And hell, I very much doubt anyone would've even thought about adding Captain Falcon as he was just a generic racer with all of his characterization coming from a short comic in the manual, nothing of which made it into Smash, where he is completely different. Also Ice Climber were just a pair of ice climber, nothing special about them. And if people can't handle Ayumi or other unknown characters getting in... quite frankly, that's their problem. Only going for the well known safe picks can make a roster feel boring, those weird oddballs are what make a roster fun and interesting. Also, if history has shown one thing, then it's that people don't even know what they want. Case in point, the characters I mentioned above, who were all WTF characters and who all have gotten a following. Most notably Falcon and the Ice Climber.

In short, I don't buy that Sakurai being afraid of explaining himself is true in the slightest.
 

KingofUSA85

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I just think he doesn't want to be the one to explain why a Japanese schoolgirl is a fighter in Smash and deal with the fans' reactions to her getting in over some other probably more desired characters.
He had no problem during melee in explaining how two Eskimos are fighters in smash and dealing with reactions to them getting in over some definitely more desired characters(Diddy and Wario).
 

GoodGrief741

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While I think Sakurai has gotten more wary of inclusions over the years (see: his reasoning behind Takamaru’s exclusion, his statements on Corrin), he’s very much a man that does whatever the **** he wants. I hope he continues to do so in Ultimate.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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I ordered another commission of Ayumi from Fiverr. I should get it within 7-14 days.
Oh nice, I will look forward to seeing it.

WiiFit Trainer alone makes that point moot, as she was specifically added as a WTF character that no one would guess. So adding unexpected characters has never been something Sakurai is shy of doing. Not to mention, Mr. G&W and ROB weren't exactly highly requested characters either. And hell, I very much doubt anyone would've even thought about adding Captain Falcon as he was just a generic racer with all of his characterization coming from a short comic in the manual, nothing of which made it into Smash, where he is completely different. Also Ice Climber were just a pair of ice climber, nothing special about them. And if people can't handle Ayumi or other unknown characters getting in... quite frankly, that's their problem. Only going for the well known safe picks can make a roster feel boring, those weird oddballs are what make a roster fun and interesting. Also, if history has shown one thing, then it's that people don't even know what they want. Case in point, the characters I mentioned above, who were all WTF characters and who all have gotten a following. Most notably Falcon and the Ice Climber.

In short, I don't buy that Sakurai being afraid of explaining himself is true in the slightest.
And good point. Smash is no stranger to adding weird fighters and I doubt people would have questions about a schoolgirl in the roster back then.
 

Jyl

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I just think he doesn't want to be the one to explain why a Japanese schoolgirl is a fighter in Smash and deal with the fans' reactions to her getting in over some other probably more desired characters.
If you're worried about this kind of thing or if you aren't prepared for fan backlash, you don't deserve to develop video games.
The guy dealt with worse stuff then that.
 

RetrogamerMax

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He had no problem during melee in explaining how two Eskimos are fighters in smash and dealing with reactions to them getting in over some definitely more desired characters(Diddy and Wario).
Speaking of Diddy in Melee, he wasn't in Melee. K. Rool and Dixie had trophies in Melee, but for some weird reason Diddy didn't.
 

chocolatejr9

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If you're worried about this kind of thing or if you aren't prepared for fan backlash, you don't deserve to develop video games.
The guy dealt with worse stuff then that.
Is it bad that the Waluigi backlash immediately comes to mind when you say that?
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Speaking of Diddy in Melee, he wasn't in Melee. K. Rool and Dixie had trophies in Melee, but for some weird reason Diddy didn't.
The problem was the rare buyout at the time. Which got in the way of them.

Is it bad that the Waluigi backlash immediately comes to mind when you say that?
Nope. Because it's a big and relevant example.
 

RetrogamerMax

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The problem was the rare buyout at the time. Which got in the way of them.
Yeah I think Diddy was planned to be in the roster back then in Melee. But of course, Nintendo and Rare's relationship was shifting away and the buyout from Microsoft prevented that from happening at the time.
 
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GoodGrief741

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If you're worried about this kind of thing or if you aren't prepared for fan backlash, you don't deserve to develop video games.
The guy dealt with worse stuff then that.
Let’s not go to that extreme either. Fan backlash and harassment is an unavoidable part of game development and you should be prepared for it, but it’s not like you don’t deserve the job for not wanting to put up with it. Developers are people too. Pressure gets to people, it’s only natural. After enough death threats I think any one of us would just cave in and start doing what the crowd demands.
 

Jyl

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Let’s not go to that extreme either. Fan backlash and harassment is an unavoidable part of game development and you should be prepared for it, but it’s not like you don’t deserve the job for not wanting to put up with it. Developers are people too. Pressure gets to people, it’s only natural. After enough death threats I think any one of us would just cave in and start doing what the crowd demands.
Good point. Sorry for the extreme.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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Though I do wonder, if we do get no retro this time. Would the next Smash be more traditional and have them?

DLC is a no go since popular or relevant characters sell. Hell, Corrin would arguably sell better than the likes of Ayumi and the rest of the retros combined.
 

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Sakurai did say the way Ultimate is handled is a one time thing, even saying that not all veterans will return.

So we will have a retro or two in a future Smash title.

And good point. There's no way a retro will be sold as DLC. It would risk selling at a big loss.
 

Jyl

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Though I do wonder, if we do get no retro this time. Would the next Smash be more traditional and have them?

DLC is a no go since popular or relevant characters sell. Hell, Corrin would arguably sell better than the likes of Ayumi and the rest of the retros combined.
Perhaps.
For ultimate our only shot for a retro rep is if they are in the main game.
I pray the next reveal will have a retro.
 

RetrogamerMax

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Perhaps.
For ultimate our only shot for a retro rep is if they are in the main game.
I pray the next reveal will have a retro.
I think the Smash Ballot is being used to choose almost if not all of Ultimate's newcomers, so it would seem a retro character is very unlikely this time. But if there are a couple of characters that are not being taken from the Smash Ballot, than a retro character is all but guaranteed. I would say Mach Rider or Ayumi Tachibana would have the best shot of being that retro character.
 
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RileyXY1

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I think the Smash Ballot is being used to choose almost if not all of Ultimate's newcomers, so it would seem a retro character is very unlikely this time. But if there are a couple of characters that are not being taken from the Smash Ballot, than a retro character is all but guaranteed. I would say Mach Rider or Ayumi Tachibana would have the best shot of being that retro character.
So far, there are a couple of characters who aren't big fan favorites. Inklings, Daisy, Simon, and Richter are examples,
 

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So far, there are a couple of characters who aren't big fan favorites. Inklings, Daisy, Simon, and Richter are examples,
The Inklings and Daisy were indeed fan favorites that probably did well in the Smash Ballot. But Simon he didn't need the Smash Ballot, he is a legacy character like: :ultmario:,:ultsonic:,:ultpacman:,:ultmegaman:,:ultryu:,:ultsnake:, and :ultcloud: so he didn't need it at all. Richter though had some popularity in Japan, so he must have done good over there for Sakurai to have made the decision to put him in.
 
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RileyXY1

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The Inklings and Daisy were indeed fan favorites that probably did well in the Smash Ballot. But Simon he didn't need the Smash Ballot, he is a legacy character like: :ultmario:,:ultsonic:,:ultpacman:,:ultmegaman:,:ultryu:,:ultsnake:, and :ultcloud: so he didn't need it at all. Richter though had some popularity in Japan, so he must have done good ever there for Sakurai to have made the decision to put him in.
Inklings got on because they were a hot new IP, and Daisy was just an easy Echo to implement.
 

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Inklings got on because they were a hot new IP, and Daisy was just an easy Echo to implement.
That's kind of true, but if the Smash Ballot was never a thing, Daisy wouldn't be in this game as a Echo in the first place because if normally, it would have happened a long time ago.
 

Jovahexeon Joranvexeon

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The Inklings and Daisy were indeed fan favorites that probably did well in the Smash Ballot. But Simon he didn't need the Smash Ballot, he is a legacy character like: :ultmario:,:ultsonic:,:ultpacman:,:ultmegaman:,:ultryu:,:ultsnake:, and :ultcloud: so he didn't need it at all. Richter though had some popularity in Japan, so he must have done good over there for Sakurai to have made the decision to put him in.
To be fair. Cloud was the most voted for, when it came to Final Fantasy reps in the ballot.
 

KingofUSA85

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While Inkling was floated around at the time of the ballot they definitly were not not the obvious pick they are now. While there were people who wanted them, there were still a ton who thought splatoon would flop and Inkling was a too new and unlmportant character to be in smash.

In short the thought of Inkling in Smash in 2015 was treated the same as the thought of a Dragalia Lost character would be now.
 

RetrogamerMax

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While Inkling was floated around at the time of the ballot they definitly were not not the obvious pick they are now. While there were people who wanted them, there were still a ton who thought splatoon would flop and Inkling was a too new and unlmportant character to be in smash.

In short the thought of Inkling in Smash in 2015 was treated the same as the thought of a Dragalia Lost character would be now.
I disagree, the Inklings were the only shoe in as far back as Smash 4 that people were sure were going to get in Smash 5/Ultimate.
 

Gameguy1996

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Though I do wonder, if we do get no retro this time. Would the next Smash be more traditional and have them?

DLC is a no go since popular or relevant characters sell. Hell, Corrin would arguably sell better than the likes of Ayumi and the rest of the retros combined.
I feel like the next Smash Bros will just be a port with 10 more characters for Nintendo's next console. Maybe they can slip a retro in that lineup depending who makes the final roster for Ultimate?
While
Sakurai did say the way Ultimate is handled is a one time thing, even saying that not all veterans will return.

So we will have a retro or two in a future Smash title.

And good point. There's no way a retro will be sold as DLC. It would risk selling at a big loss.
While it's hard to say what direction the next game will take and if Sakurai is still on board as Director he might not be able to do as much due to him being in his late 50's by that point.
So far, there are a couple of characters who aren't big fan favorites. Inklings, Daisy, Simon, and Richter are examples,
People where saying Inklings where a lock for DLC when it came to Smash Four and Splatoon was a quick runaway hit on the Wii U of all things. We know there was those hardcore Daisy fans like meme man and Daisy was the only new character Nintendo added into Super Mario Run. As for Simon and Richter they come from the Castlevania series that's been around since the NES and while Simon might have dropped off the map a bit when it came to Smash For it was mostly due to the whole Konami only cares about mobile fan movement and he was a popular request during the Brawl days.
 

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I feel like the next Smash Bros will just be a port with 10 more characters for Nintendo's next console. Maybe they can slip a retro in that lineup depending who makes the final roster for Ultimate?.
I wouldn't mind this direction at all.
 

Dyllybirdy

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Though I do wonder, if we do get no retro this time. Would the next Smash be more traditional and have them?

DLC is a no go since popular or relevant characters sell. Hell, Corrin would arguably sell better than the likes of Ayumi and the rest of the retros combined.
I'd buy it, anyway. :sadeyes:

I feels horrible, knowing the fact that not many people would care for her as DLC. Poor, poor Ayumi.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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I'd buy it, anyway. :sadeyes:

I feels horrible, knowing the fact that not many people would care for her as DLC. Poor, poor Ayumi.
I know I would too.

But at the same time, DLC should be something everyone would buy and it would be too risky to have someone obscure.

Even if Ayumi DLC would be a flop, I'd buy the hell out of her and some people would grow interested.
 
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Gameguy1996

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So it seems like we still got a retro character after all if the leak turns out to be true. I still think there's a chance of it being fake due to Sakurai saying the pace of newcomers was going to be slower and he said not to expect too many new challengers.
 

Yomi's Biggest Fan

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So it seems like we still got a retro character after all if the leak turns out to be true. I still think there's a chance of it being fake due to Sakurai saying the pace of newcomers was going to be slower and he said not to expect too many new challengers.
I was tying to avoid said leak, but Twitter's memes ruined it all.

So all i'll say on the matter is that the next direct will make or beak that leak.

And I can say we are glad we have one at all, even if it's someone who is known internationally.
 

perfectchaos83

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Ayumi is still my preferred retro character, all things considered. I feel she has the potential to bring that series to the west
 

mediyogurt

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While I would've preferred ayumi, getting any kind of retro character is a treat. Was only worried Sakurai wouldn't even bother with one.
 

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Ayumi is still my preferred retro character, all things considered. I feel she has the potential to bring that series to the west
Same here.

We can hope she has a better chance next time,. Or this time if the leak was a fluke.

While I would've preferred ayumi, getting any kind of retro character is a treat. Was only worried Sakurai wouldn't even bother with one.
Same here and I am relieved that he haven't completed forgotten to have one at all.
 
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