The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy for SSB4 (A New Daisy for Smash Thread Opens See Pg. 197)

[Deleted member]

"First Cheerleader" doesn't have the same ring as "First Spear-wielder" or "First Robotic Dragon Thing". It sounds kind of...boring.

Then again, a virtual fitness trainer worked, so I guess Sakurai could take anything and make it unique (or a clone).

Not everyone agrees with my ideas, but this is what I think would be cool if Daisy were a semi-clone of Peach:

-Whereas Peach is a little bit more defensive, Daisy would be more agile and aggressive in playstyle.
-Daisy would be slightly shorter than Peach, similar to Lucina/Marth
-Most standard/aerial attacks could be the same, maybe change some up to better suit Daisy's personality, but I'm not too particular about that. Except down Smash must be changed to a leg sweep, so Daisy can use sports outfits And where ever Peach uses Rainbow or Heart effects, Daisy's would be Flowers.
-Smash attack: replace the frying pan with either a baseball bat or a flower
-Up Special: Daisy's Parasol - basically Peach's "Light Parasol" custom move, which grants more horizontal recovery. This is because Daisy can't float like Peach. (Ness can also use Lucas's custom moves, for example)
-Neutral Special: Piranha Plant - this has been suggested and I actually think it would be pretty wicked. Much better than Toad. It might work in way similar to Sonic's Homing Attack or Palutena's Autoreticle in that after a brief second, the Piranha Plant lunges out and strikes anyone in range, even if they're behind Daisy. I could see a lot of uses for this.
-Side Special: Daisy Super Strike - A much more intense version of Peach Bomber, Daisy does a flaming kick instead of bumping with her hip. The move also covers much more horizontal and a little more vertical distance than Peach Bomber, like a low-arch version of ZSS's Flip Jump (or Little Mac's Jolt Haymaker).
-Down Special: Well, Daisy wouldn't pull up turnips...but she would plant flowers! Flower Garden - Like Vegetable, can only be used while on the ground. It spawns a small garden around Daisy that lasts for a little while. Enemies who walk over the garden would be negatively affected, such as being tripped, slowed, or put to sleep (I can't decide which).
-Final Smash: Daisy Cruiser: instead of putting everyone to sleep like Peach, Daisy floods the stage, putting most fighters in a swimming animation, and calls in her personal cruise ship to sweep fighters from one side of the screen to the other. The only way to really avoid this is by being high in the air or on higher ground.

-Stage (if added): Sarasaland, complete with the theme song.

So with this vision of Daisy she would be a fun and spunky alternative to Peach, with enough changed to make a very different playstyle. And being a semi-clone of Peach, that means 1. more practical to include, and might not bump chances of other characters, and 2. would encourage those familiar with Peach or those who don't like Peach to try her out. We all know how many love other clones/semiclones (Lucas, Wolf, Luigi, Ganondorf, Toon Link, etc.), so a semi-clone can still be a worthy addition.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

@Mewtwo - I really like your ideas here. Of all that I've read, I find them the easiest to imagine in action.

-Down Special: Well, Daisy wouldn't pull up turnips...but she would plant flowers! Flower Garden - Like Vegetable, can only be used while on the ground. It spawns a small garden around Daisy that lasts for a little while. Enemies who walk over the garden would be negatively affected, such as being tripped, slowed, or put to sleep (I can't decide which).

Maybe change up the colours of the flowers each time the move is used, with each colour representing one of those effects? Yellow for tripped (since that association already exists with Diddy's banana peels), blue for slowed (since one would associate cold colours with being slowed down or stopped, much like when being frozen by already existing items and moves), and purple for sleep (since that colour association exists with Bellossom already), in that order, or something like that?

 

[Furret24]

Not everyone agrees with my ideas, but this is what I think would be cool if Daisy were a semi-clone of Peach:

-Whereas Peach is a little bit more defensive, Daisy would be more agile and aggressive in playstyle.
-Daisy would be slightly shorter than Peach, similar to Lucina/Marth
-Most standard/aerial attacks could be the same, maybe change some up to better suit Daisy's personality, but I'm not too particular about that. Except down Smash must be changed to a leg sweep, so Daisy can use sports outfits And where ever Peach uses Rainbow or Heart effects, Daisy's would be Flowers.
-Smash attack: replace the frying pan with either a baseball bat or a flower
-Up Special: Daisy's Parasol - basically Peach's "Light Parasol" custom move, which grants more horizontal recovery. This is because Daisy can't float like Peach. (Ness can also use Lucas's custom moves, for example)
-Neutral Special: Piranha Plant - this has been suggested and I actually think it would be pretty wicked. Much better than Toad. It might work in way similar to Sonic's Homing Attack or Palutena's Autoreticle in that after a brief second, the Piranha Plant lunges out and strikes anyone in range, even if they're behind Daisy. I could see a lot of uses for this.
-Side Special: Daisy Super Strike - A much more intense version of Peach Bomber, Daisy does a flaming kick instead of bumping with her hip. The move also covers much more horizontal and a little more vertical distance than Peach Bomber, like a low-arch version of ZSS's Flip Jump (or Little Mac's Jolt Haymaker).
-Down Special: Well, Daisy wouldn't pull up turnips...but she would plant flowers! Flower Garden - Like Vegetable, can only be used while on the ground. It spawns a small garden around Daisy that lasts for a little while. Enemies who walk over the garden would be negatively affected, such as being tripped, slowed, or put to sleep (I can't decide which).
-Final Smash: Daisy Cruiser: instead of putting everyone to sleep like Peach, Daisy floods the stage, putting most fighters in a swimming animation, and calls in her personal cruise ship to sweep fighters from one side of the screen to the other. The only way to really avoid this is by being high in the air or on higher ground.

-Stage (if added): Sarasaland, complete with the theme song.

So with this vision of Daisy she would be a fun and spunky alternative to Peach, with enough changed to make a very different playstyle. And being a semi-clone of Peach, that means 1. more practical to include, and might not bump chances of other characters, and 2. would encourage those familiar with Peach or those who don't like Peach to try her out. We all know how many love other clones/semiclones (Lucas, Wolf, Luigi, Ganondorf, Toon Link, etc.), so a semi-clone can still be a worthy addition.

That's a pretty neat idea actually. Kudos to you.

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

Just was music bingeing Super Mario Land's music (Daisy's theme) and I thought I'd share this.

 

[Zeldaisy]

Just was music bingeing Super Mario Land's music (Daisy's theme) and I thought I'd share this.

That's surprisingly....good. I like it.



...


..


.


Except for the guy singing. He was out of place tbh

 

[Alph Aran]

Just was music bingeing Super Mario Land's music (Daisy's theme) and I thought I'd share this.

I was watching this GIF while listening to the theme remix. No regrets from doing so.

Vote for Daisy! (Currently thinking of what her reveal trailer would be like)

 

[Mr. Bulldops]

Do'h...! Oh, well...guess THAT theory's thrown out the window, then...and I guess it's official. @StarCrystal20 is probably right, Nintendo really doesn't like Daisy and doesn't wanna use her. I just don't understand their bias, and never will. WHAT...is there to hate about Princess Daisy???

You assume they hate Daisy. That is not the case at all.

If I may ask everyone here, what makes any of you believe they hate Daisy if you believe that's how they feel? The common complaints I see are:
1. She's not in Smash Bros.
2. She's not in 3D World.
and more recently, 3. She's not in Super Mario Maker

And yet, various Mario characters aren't in Smash Bros. Various Mario characters aren't even in Super Mario Maker. 3D World had only 5 playable characters, 6 if you count Captain Toad.

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

You assume they hate Daisy. That is not the case at all.

If I may ask everyone here, what makes any of you believe they hate Daisy if you believe that's how they feel? The common complaints I see are:
1. She's not in Smash Bros.
2. She's not in 3D World.
and more recently, 3. She's not in Super Mario Maker

And yet, various Mario characters aren't in Smash Bros. Various Mario characters aren't even in Super Mario Maker. 3D World had only 5 playable characters, 6 if you count Captain Toad.

I don't think they hate her. More like she seems to be "getting shafted" even though nothing is really confirmed to be that. She's only been seen in the spinoff sports games, but as of late, her appearances outside of those games are either not "up to snuff" to the real deal representation (Daisy alt colors for Peach rather then a true alt of her ala Olimar/Alph, or at the very least not the accurate colors present from the true outfit Daisy wears, like how her alt was for Peach in Melee, but changed since since Brawl. Daisy doesn't have a true appearance in Smash Bros other than trophies, when Waluigi at least get's a AT, but she "and others from the Mario series, yes, but we're focusing on Daisy here" doesn't get much else. Then in a game were Rosie basically get's added into ****tons of games prior to her debut in Galaxy, for someone to be only like a decade old while Daisy is 2 decades older, you'd think Daisy would have been thought of a place for SM3DW as well as Rosie, if not one of the first choices to go alongside Mario/Peach. Then for Mario Maker, a game made to show the anniversary of Mario's history plus other Nintendo franchises, out of all of those costumes, Daisy didn't get a mention when Waluigi, a tile piece, a Wii Balance Board, and 7 difference types of Marios and 5 difference types of Yoshi's are in that game, but one for Daisy doesn't happen.)

I think I can see why people here think Nintendo is not really thinking about Daisy's placement in these games for whatever reasons, but I personally don't think they flat out "hate" her, they just don't know how much Daisy means to people and people would like to see her added in more games of the Mario franchise, and even for Smash as her status in Nintendo's history surely beats Rosie's.

 

[HanAmes]

You assume they hate Daisy. That is not the case at all.

If I may ask everyone here, what makes any of you believe they hate Daisy if you believe that's how they feel? The common complaints I see are:
1. She's not in Smash Bros.
2. She's not in 3D World.
and more recently, 3. She's not in Super Mario Maker

And yet, various Mario characters aren't in Smash Bros. Various Mario characters aren't even in Super Mario Maker. 3D World had only 5 playable characters, 6 if you count Captain Toad.

It's just that we see great potential in Daisy where she can actually pass off as a main stream character. Yes, we are fans of her, and we just wanna see her get the push she deserves.

For a while, she's received sub-par treatment, in our opinions because of the lack of a SMM costume, no Mario Party 10 art, she was only in Sport/Party games to this day, where other characters, even newer ones, have been pushed to the moon. Some of us just feel that some sort of back stage politics have been playing against our favorite character.

 

[Mr. Bulldops]

I don't think they hate her. More like she seems to be "getting shafted" even though nothing is really confirmed to be that. She's only been seen in the spinoff sports games, but as of late, her appearances outside of those games are either not "up to snuff" to the real deal representation (Daisy alt colors for Peach rather then a true alt of her ala Olimar/Alph, or at the very least not the accurate colors present from the true outfit Daisy wears, like how her alt was for Peach in Melee, but changed since since Brawl. Daisy doesn't have a true appearance in Smash Bros other than trophies, when Waluigi at least get's a AT, but she "and others from the Mario series, yes, but we're focusing on Daisy here" doesn't get much else. Then in a game were Rosie basically get's added into ****tons of games prior to her debut in Galaxy, for someone to be only like a decade old while Daisy is 2 decades older, you'd think Daisy would have been thought of a place for SM3DW as well as Rosie, if not one of the first choices to go alongside Mario/Peach. Then for Mario Maker, a game made to show the anniversary of Mario's history plus other Nintendo franchises, out of all of those costumes, Daisy didn't get a mention when Waluigi, a tile piece, a Wii Balance Board, and 7 difference types of Marios and 5 difference types of Yoshi's are in that game, but one for Daisy doesn't happen.)

I think I can see why people here think Nintendo is not really thinking about Daisy's placement in these games for whatever reasons, but I personally don't think they flat out "hate" her, they just don't know how much Daisy means to people and people would like to see her added in more games of the Mario franchise, and even for Smash as her status in Nintendo's history surely beats Rosie's.

Daisy and Rosalina are completely incomparable. Daisy had a very consistent track record for her appearances prior to 3D World, which have all been her appearances post-3D World. Rosalina on the other hand was given the playable role for many reasons that Daisy can't speak for. Rosalina beats her in number of platformer appearances (2 to 1 prior to 3D World) and more importantly Rosalina's appearances were the Galaxy games, which are all handled by the main Mario team at Tokyo EAD. Daisy's only platformer appearance was Super Mario Land, which had none of the usual Mario developers on it. It was essentially a spinoff platformer. I would not expect Daisy before Rosalina for 3D World, especially when the people who worked on 3D World were all veteran developers from the Galaxy team or even from before that.

Waluigi was also somewhat of a joint venture between the mainline team (specifically Miyamoto) and his spinoff developer creators, which also helps make sense of why he was included but she wasn't. You could argue for Wario's inclusion being odd as a result of that but Wario being part of the Smash Bros amiibo line helps him.

And Daisy's status to Nintendo's history is what exactly apart from seniority? Seniority means nothing. Toad isn't in Smash as a playable character, is he? What about characters who are recent like Shulk or Greninja? The additions of characters have nothing to do with seniority. What they are to their franchises is what matters more, and that is the problem that Daisy has.

It's just that we see great potential in Daisy where she can actually pass off as a main stream character. Yes, we are fans of her, and we just wanna see her get the push she deserves.

For a while, she's received sub-par treatment, in our opinions because of the lack of a SMM costume, no Mario Party 10 art, she was only in Sport/Party games to this day, where other characters, even newer ones, have been pushed to the moon. Some of us just feel that some sort of back stage politics have been playing against our favorite character.

Hmm, but how do you determine who "deserves" a push? Isn't that completely subjective? I could argue that I do not believe that Bowser Jr. "deserves" any of the push he had and I most certainly would if I had to, but would that make me right?

I don't see any sub-par treatment there. SMM had a lack of a costume for Daisy, but likewise, Mario Kart 7 lacked Waluigi as a character altogether. She had no Mario Party 10 art, but who really did for that game? Mario, Luigi, and Peach did but I believe all of their renders were HD updates to older renders. Toad and Toadette may have had new art, I'm not sure. Rosalina and Spike had new art, but they were newcomers so that's to be expected. And Daisy also had the camera front and center on her for the new Mario and Sonic Olympics game, so it's not as though she's being given nothing.

The characters who gain a push do so because of their circumstances. Why did Wario get a push? Because his creators (who are also the creators of Daisy, mind you) felt attached to him and wanted him as their star. They already did not like using Mario so they made Wario as a representation of themselves. This representation is what later gained two whole franchises of his own. Yoshi had Takashi Tezuka overlooking most of the games he's involved with due to his own affection for the character. The current Mario development team is the one who created the Galaxy games and by extension Rosalina, and they feel affection towards her as a result. Waluigi is always given love in the Camelot sports titles because Waluigi was a creation of the Camelot developers. Daisy's problem is, simply put, that she lacks any of this.

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

...Anyways...Just wanted to share this before I head off to bed.

I asked J-Arturo if I could color this drawing of his for him, since I loved it so much, so yeah. And here's the original artwork,
http://j-arturo.deviantart.com/art/Princess-Daisy-Sketches-556671442

 

[Mr. Bulldops]

Well, I finished my response, so if anyone wants to take a look at it, go right ahead. Edited it in because I accidentally hit post reply after quoting the first post that I was going to respond to.

 

[memoryman3]

Daisy and Rosalina are completely incomparable. Daisy had a very consistent track record for her appearances prior to 3D World, which have all been her appearances post-3D World. Rosalina on the other hand was given the playable role for many reasons that Daisy can't speak for. Rosalina beats her in number of platformer appearances (2 to 1 prior to 3D World) and more importantly Rosalina's appearances were the Galaxy games, which are all handled by the main Mario team at Tokyo EAD. Daisy's only platformer appearance was Super Mario Land, which had none of the usual Mario developers on it. It was essentially a spinoff platformer. I would not expect Daisy before Rosalina for 3D World, especially when the people who worked on 3D World were all veteran developers from the Galaxy team or even from before that.

Waluigi was also somewhat of a joint venture between the mainline team (specifically Miyamoto) and his spinoff developer creators, which also helps make sense of why he was included but she wasn't. You could argue for Wario's inclusion being odd as a result of that but Wario being part of the Smash Bros amiibo line helps him.

And Daisy's status to Nintendo's history is what exactly apart from seniority? Seniority means nothing. Toad isn't in Smash as a playable character, is he? What about characters who are recent like Shulk or Greninja? The additions of characters have nothing to do with seniority. What they are to their franchises is what matters more, and that is the problem that Daisy has.


Hmm, but how do you determine who "deserves" a push? Isn't that completely subjective? I could argue that I do not believe that Bowser Jr. "deserves" any of the push he had and I most certainly would if I had to, but would that make me right?

I don't see any sub-par treatment there. SMM had a lack of a costume for Daisy, but likewise, Mario Kart 7 lacked Waluigi as a character altogether. She had no Mario Party 10 art, but who really did for that game? Mario, Luigi, and Peach did but I believe all of their renders were HD updates to older renders. Toad and Toadette may have had new art, I'm not sure. Rosalina and Spike had new art, but they were newcomers so that's to be expected. And Daisy also had the camera front and center on her for the new Mario and Sonic Olympics game, so it's not as though she's being given nothing.

The characters who gain a push do so because of their circumstances. Why did Wario get a push? Because his creators (who are also the creators of Daisy, mind you) felt attached to him and wanted him as their star. They already did not like using Mario so they made Wario as a representation of themselves. This representation is what later gained two whole franchises of his own. Yoshi had Takashi Tezuka overlooking most of the games he's involved with due to his own affection for the character. The current Mario development team is the one who created the Galaxy games and by extension Rosalina, and they feel affection towards her as a result. Waluigi is always given love in the Camelot sports titles because Waluigi was a creation of the Camelot developers. Daisy's problem is, simply put, that she lacks any of this.

The problem here is that Waluigi's omission from Mario Kart 7 was purely due to time constraints (he returned in Kart 8). Daisy's current omission from Mario Maker doesn't make any sense whatsoever considering she was a PLAYABLE character in nearly all of her appearances. She's almost never recognised outside Mario spin-offs.

In fact, if you see Mario Kart DS' roster, the only person who didn't make it into Mario Maker was......Daisy. The only other female besides Peach was.......Daisy. This gives a strong impression that Daisy is "used" to bolster up the female character roster. The moment females from other franchises come into the equation, she's shafted. This is why I don't like the idea of a Super Smash Kart, what's going to happen to Daisy's place once Zelda gets behind the wheel?

 

[Deleted member]

In fact, if you see Mario Kart DS' roster, the only person who didn't make it into Mario Maker was......Daisy.

First of all, this is not true. Dry Bones isn't a costume.

Second of all, if you see Mario Kart DS' roster....what you see are:
-Main characters in the franchise that are all in Smash: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, DK
-A somewhat major character that isn't in Smash but has his own amiibo already: Toad
-A guest racer that is in Smash: R.O.B.
-A random enemy: Dry Bones
-The multiplayer spin-off duo: Waluigi and Daisy

Really, the only character you can compare Daisy to in the small roster from Mario Kart DS is Waluigi.
Especially since there is no defined character from the Mario series that has a costume in Mario Maker without an amiibo or one known to be in the works besides him.
There can only be one reason why. Because he represents the Mario Tennis series.

Third of all, stop spamming threads on Gamefaqs. I'm getting tired of seeing spam threads about Daisy when I lurk.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

First of all, this is not true. Dry Bones isn't a costume.

Second of all, if you see Mario Kart DS' roster....what you see are:
-Main characters in the franchise that are all in Smash: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, Wario, DK
-A somewhat major character that isn't in Smash but has his own amiibo already: Toad
-A guest racer that is in Smash: R.O.B.
-A random enemy: Dry Bones
-The multiplayer spin-off duo: Waluigi and Daisy

Really, the only character you can compare Daisy to in the small roster from Mario Kart DS is Waluigi.
Especially since there is no defined character from the Mario series that has a costume in Mario Maker without an amiibo or one known to be in the works besides him.
There can only be one reason why. Because he represents the Mario Tennis series.

Third of all, stop spamming threads on Gamefaqs. I'm getting tired of seeing spam threads about Daisy when I lurk.

I am definitely not responsible for that, heck I don't even have a GameFaqs account. And yeah, I had a feeling Daisy not being in Mario Maker had to do with the fact that she has nothing with the main team or games, oh well, guess they truly don't see her as anything but a spin-off character....

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

@ Mr. Bulldops - I'll preface this by noting that I don't for one second believe that anyone working at Nintendo, or the company as a collective, hates the character - there's plenty of good reasons to show that they don't, including the fact that they've never allowed her or her origins and creators (the team of Gunpei Yokoi, who did so much for the company) to be forgotten, and the fact that she's always included in merchandise line-ups and the like. I found your posts to be interesting reading and wanted to add some comments relating to them;

I suspect that a lot of folks question Daisy's usage in games nowadays partly because, back in the day, they never really pushed to the public the notion of new Mario titles as being the work of separate teams. When Super Mario Land debuted, for example, the general promotional angle was "Mario comes to the Game Boy!", rather than "It's a Mario spin-off for the Game Boy!". Likewise, they used to promote characters in much the same way - i.e., "Introducing Princess Daisy from the far-off kingdom of Sarasaland!", as opposed to "Introducing a supporting character from another, smaller team!" (likewise with Wario, it wasn't until at least a few years later that word got out about the admittedly hilarious reasons for his creation and character-design). Thus, from that perspective, it can easily look like they're overlooking Daisy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the viewpoint of her being skipped over for what look like obvious roles for her is centred mainly around fans who are old enough to remember those days and how things were promoted back then.

The above is also likely to be why folks expected Daisy over Rosalina in Super Mario 3D World. It's certainly why I expected it, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I'm not the only one.

I agree that the lack of mainline game appearances for Daisy is definitely a problem for Daisy (I said it a few pages ago myself, even ), and that's exacerbated by the current team, as you said, naturally not being in a position to have a particular fondness for including her over a character that they've actually been responsible for. I appreciate this insight, because prior to that, the only potential "explanation" I could see were the frequent rumours of "Miyamoto-bias", the gist of which, if you've not heard of them over the years that they've been circulating, is that he may dislike additions made by others to series that he created, with the affected series being Mario, DK, Zelda, and Star Fox. These instances are undeniably unusual when viewed collectively because there definitely appears to be a common thread, but it's not something that I want to believe as a proper explanation. Yours is clearly that proper explanation. Many thanks for that.

@ SuperSegaSonicSS - Haha, I mentioned that song a few pages ago (I linked to the radio version there). It used to get played on the radio a lot over here! That was so awesome. It would never happen now.

 

[memoryman3]

First of all, this is not true. Dry Bones isn't a costume.

Well, Dry Bones is an enemy in Mario Maker in all themes. In fact, Dry Bones actually got more representation than Luigi....

Also, Toadette and all of the Koopalings are missing from the game too....

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Oh boy, we're about to have another Golden debate on our hands. And we all know most of those never end well.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Yee! The mailman just stopped by and delivered the newest addition to my video game plush collection.

It's Daisy, from San-ei's Super Mario All Star Collection set. I quite like the San-ei All Star Collections (so far, they've produced Mario and Kirby All Star Collection plush sets), as the likenesses tend to be superb, and all of the "S"-size plushes (the 5" to 10" or so size range) are reasonably in-scale with one another within a given set. (I also have Bowser and Wario from this same selection, so have observed this first-hand.)

The tag artwork is usually nicely representative of the characters, as well. Here's Daisy's hangtag.

But there's one other fun thing: Whilst the two sets are in-scale within themselves, whether by coincidence or design, when you mix them, they're in the Super Smash Bros. scale! (In the picture below, Daisy should be a lot taller if accurate scale were preserved. )

Clearly, Dedede supports Daisy for Smash, as well. (That or he went on a royal visit to Sarasaland to fill up on all the local foods. Knowing him, it could be either, honestly.)

Anyway, just had to share. I'm glad that Amazon US, AmiAmi, and so on, make it so easy to import these, as the marketplace over here is flooded with counterfeits and really bad fakes.

 

[Deleted member]

Rosalina in Smash and 3D World makes perfect sense to me, and I actually like Rosalina as a character. It's fun too that it really ties in 3D World to the Galaxy games; I like connections.

However, I think what bothers most Daisy fans is just her untapped potential.
Imagine if Wario never began to star in his own platformer series...we'd also never have his whacky powerups, Captain Syrup and the other characters, or perhaps not even WarioWare.
Imagine if it was Mario's Mansion instead of Luigi's Mansion. It very well could have been. But Luigi never would have developed as a frightened ghost-hunter in his own right. And just look at the new adventures Toad has had because of the Toad Brigade!

So with Daisy (and you can make the same argument for Waluigi), we have this mainstay character that is obviously best buds with the rest of the cast, but is never given the chance to shine and develop further than what can be done in spinoffs. And it's not like Daisy is super obscure, so I think letting her shine in a mainline game or in her own spinoff would make sense at this point.

 

[dangeraaron10]

Just was music bingeing Super Mario Land's music (Daisy's theme) and I thought I'd share this.

I swear you have a new avatar every day.

Also @Mewtwo it almost reminds me of a Peach - Captain Falcon fusion. Imagine that.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

a Peach - Captain Falcon fusion. Imagine that.

She'd sound like a Pokemon! "Daisy Puuuunch!!", "Daisy Kick!".

 

[Deleted member]

Well, Dry Bones is an enemy in Mario Maker in all themes. In fact, Dry Bones actually got more representation than Luigi....

Are you SERIOUSLY complaining about a common enemy having the same role it always does like it's relevant to how Daisy is "mistreated"?

Also, Toadette and all of the Koopalings are missing from the game too....

....completely irrelevant to the point at hand.
Besides:

Especially since there is no defined character from the Mario series that has a costume in Mario Maker without an amiibo or one known to be in the works besides [Waluigi].

I'm already well aware.

Oh boy, we're about to have another Golden debate on our hands. And we all know most of those never end well.

Was a comment like that really necessary?

 

[dangeraaron10]

She'd sound like a Pokemon! "Daisy Puuuunch!!", "Daisy Kick!".

I swear some of the humans in this game sound like Digimon where they always telegraph their moves:

"Back slash!"
"Autoreticle!"
"Electro-shocker!"
"Thoron!"

And let's never forget...

"Faaaaalcooon....PAAUNCH!"

I find it very weird and jarring that some of them will call out and telegraph their moves when no one else does. Palutena, Shulk, Robin, and Captain Falcon are the worst offenders for this, and Dark Pit does this with one move. I think they are the only ones who do this. Pit and the other FE characters don't (except Ike with Great Aether).

 

[Furret24]

I swear some of the humans in this game sound like Digimon where they always telegraph their moves:

"Back slash!"
"Autoreticle!"
"Electro-shocker!"
"Thoron!"

And let's never forget...

"Faaaaalcooon....PAAUNCH!"

I find it very weird and jarring that some of them will call out and telegraph their moves when no one else does. Palutena, Shulk, Robin, and Captain Falcon are the worst offenders for this, and Dark Pit does this with one move. I think they are the only ones who do this. Pit and the other FE characters don't (except Ike with Great Aether).

You forgot one.

"Blipp!"

 

[Nintendotard]

Was a comment like that really necessary?

If it involves just adding controversy to a support thread and possibly getting us locked, then yet

 

[Deleted member]

If it involves just adding controversy to a support thread and possibly getting us locked, then yet

Because correcting someone is so bloody controversial.
If the thread gets locked because people don't know when to keep their mouths shut just because I happen to show up, it's their own fault.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Was a comment like that really necessary?

I was simply warning him not to get on your bad side since we all know how debatable you can get at times (Though SaturnFan64 aka Noah Linder is more or less much more confrontational). But since you were to one to let him know how you view things, he should get the picture for future references.

 

[Nintendotard]

Because correcting someone is so bloody controversial.
If the thread gets locked because people don't know when to keep their mouths shut just because I happen to show up, it's their own fault.

To be honest, I have no idea whats going on with this "debate", but you can't just type something up that may not be the best of things in regards to the character for the support thread and expect someone not to offer a rebuttal

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, I have no idea whats going on with this "debate", but you can't just type something up that may not be the best of things in regards to the character for the support thread and expect someone not to offer a rebuttal

The fact "you have no idea what's going on" means you should stay out of it.
Especially since I haven't said anything negative about Daisy.

....which you would know if you actually HAD an idea on what's going on.

I was simply warning him not to get on your bad side since we all know how debatable you can get at times (Though SaturnFan64 aka Noah Linder is more or less much more confrontational). But since you were to one to let him know how you view things, he should get the picture for future references.

Could've worded it to not sound like I'm out to assault anyone or ruin the thread, you know.

 

[Nintendotard]

The fact "you have no idea what's going on" means you should stay out of it.
Especially since I haven't said anything negative about Daisy.

....which you would know if you actually HAD an idea on what's going on.


Could've worded it to not sound like I'm out to assault anyone or ruin the thread, you know.

As long as it doesn't shut down the thread, I don't really care ^_^

And I'd have to agree with you with the second part. We've had lame debates in here that just turn into controversy before, and with about 20 more days until these threads are basically gone, lets just keep it active until the end.

 

[Furret24]

As long as it doesn't shut down the thread, I don't really care ^_^

And I'd have to agree with you with the second part. We've had lame debates in here that just turn into controversy before, and with 16 more days until these threads are basically gone, lets just keep it active until the end.

Fixed.

 

[Nintendotard]

Fixed.

thanks fellow G&W mainer

 

[RosaPeach]

All 100 Amiibos still Daisy not playable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq8sRYh8yZw

 

[Furret24]

thanks fellow G&W mainer

Game on.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

All 100 Amiibos still Daisy not playable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq8sRYh8yZw

I'm pretty sure that we all knew of this for a while since that video leak. But it's interesting nonetheless for those who haven't spoiled themselves yet and actuality bought the game for themselves.

 

[Morbi]

I'm pretty sure that we all knew of this for a while since that video leak. But it's interesting nonetheless for those who haven't spoiled themselves yet and actuality bought the game for themselves.

I did not really care too much about her being excluded in Mario Maker at first as I did not realize that I was going to purchase the game, but I did. And now I want to make a Daisy themed level, but I cannot. Oh, the humanity!

 

[memoryman3]

I did not really care too much about her being excluded in Mario Maker at first as I did not realize that I was going to purchase the game, but I did. And now I want to make a Daisy themed level, but I cannot. Oh, the humanity!

Just make a why no Daisy level and watch the stars roll in.

 

[Mr. Bulldops]

The problem here is that Waluigi's omission from Mario Kart 7 was purely due to time constraints (he returned in Kart 8). Daisy's current omission from Mario Maker doesn't make any sense whatsoever considering she was a PLAYABLE character in nearly all of her appearances. She's almost never recognised outside Mario spin-offs.

In fact, if you see Mario Kart DS' roster, the only person who didn't make it into Mario Maker was......Daisy. The only other female besides Peach was.......Daisy. This gives a strong impression that Daisy is "used" to bolster up the female character roster. The moment females from other franchises come into the equation, she's shafted. This is why I don't like the idea of a Super Smash Kart, what's going to happen to Daisy's place once Zelda gets behind the wheel?

Which part of her omission doesn't make sense exactly? Sure Waluigi is in, but Toadette and the Koopalings and Nabbit and Birdo aren't in SMM either.

@ Mr. Bulldops - I'll preface this by noting that I don't for one second believe that anyone working at Nintendo, or the company as a collective, hates the character - there's plenty of good reasons to show that they don't, including the fact that they've never allowed her or her origins and creators (the team of Gunpei Yokoi, who did so much for the company) to be forgotten, and the fact that she's always included in merchandise line-ups and the like. I found your posts to be interesting reading and wanted to add some comments relating to them;

I suspect that a lot of folks question Daisy's usage in games nowadays partly because, back in the day, they never really pushed to the public the notion of new Mario titles as being the work of separate teams. When Super Mario Land debuted, for example, the general promotional angle was "Mario comes to the Game Boy!", rather than "It's a Mario spin-off for the Game Boy!". Likewise, they used to promote characters in much the same way - i.e., "Introducing Princess Daisy from the far-off kingdom of Sarasaland!", as opposed to "Introducing a supporting character from another, smaller team!" (likewise with Wario, it wasn't until at least a few years later that word got out about the admittedly hilarious reasons for his creation and character-design). Thus, from that perspective, it can easily look like they're overlooking Daisy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the viewpoint of her being skipped over for what look like obvious roles for her is centred mainly around fans who are old enough to remember those days and how things were promoted back then.

The above is also likely to be why folks expected Daisy over Rosalina in Super Mario 3D World. It's certainly why I expected it, and I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I'm not the only one.

I agree that the lack of mainline game appearances for Daisy is definitely a problem for Daisy (I said it a few pages ago myself, even ), and that's exacerbated by the current team, as you said, naturally not being in a position to have a particular fondness for including her over a character that they've actually been responsible for. I appreciate this insight, because prior to that, the only potential "explanation" I could see were the frequent rumours of "Miyamoto-bias", the gist of which, if you've not heard of them over the years that they've been circulating, is that he may dislike additions made by others to series that he created, with the affected series being Mario, DK, Zelda, and Star Fox. These instances are undeniably unusual when viewed collectively because there definitely appears to be a common thread, but it's not something that I want to believe as a proper explanation. Yours is clearly that proper explanation. Many thanks for that.

Now here's a long response, the type I was hoping to see.

Largely yeah, I do think you are right about how the general public probably isn't thinking about the technical aspects or side elements of why characters are used within the company. I still feel as though the fans owe it to themselves to look these sorts of things up before voicing their complaints however. There's a trend which I thought was obvious enough of how characters like Waluigi, Daisy and Wario never get appearances in the newest Mario platformer while finding characters like Yoshi, Jr., or Rosalina was easy enough. I noticed that and looked up the details myself and noticed common elements between the characters of group 1, and other common elements between the characters of group 2. I myself wasn't concerned with whether or not Waluigi/Daisy/Wario would appear in a Mario platformer though, and yet I still thought to look that sort of thing up. Why some fans of those characters feel like complaining and asking "why?" without doing research baffles me, tbh.

I'd like to note that Miyamoto bias might actually be a thing though. Miyamoto had spoken in an interview about how he didn't feel the need to have Rosalina in Super Mario Galaxy in the first place, and more specifically he said he didn't see why they needed another girl at all. The decision to make her as tall as she is in that game somewhat came as a result of Miyamoto thinking "well, as long as she's just doing Galaxy...", only for the Mario Kart team to essentially tell Miyamoto to piss off and then they utilized her anyways. Miyamoto later said in the same interview that he was just "feeling green" at the time and doesn't even understand why he had that opposition in the first place. There was also something said before about how Rosalina's storybook had to be snuck in by the director of the game, behind Miyamoto's back just because of his dislike of story. If you notice how Rosalina's game appearances were so minimal prior to 3D World, there's the reason for that. I wouldn't say with certainty that Daisy had the same issue, but I would say that Miyamoto's comments are definitely telling.

Rosalina in Smash and 3D World makes perfect sense to me, and I actually like Rosalina as a character. It's fun too that it really ties in 3D World to the Galaxy games; I like connections.

However, I think what bothers most Daisy fans is just her untapped potential.
Imagine if Wario never began to star in his own platformer series...we'd also never have his whacky powerups, Captain Syrup and the other characters, or perhaps not even WarioWare.
Imagine if it was Mario's Mansion instead of Luigi's Mansion. It very well could have been. But Luigi never would have developed as a frightened ghost-hunter in his own right. And just look at the new adventures Toad has had because of the Toad Brigade!

So with Daisy (and you can make the same argument for Waluigi), we have this mainstay character that is obviously best buds with the rest of the cast, but is never given the chance to shine and develop further than what can be done in spinoffs. And it's not like Daisy is super obscure, so I think letting her shine in a mainline game or in her own spinoff would make sense at this point.

It wouldn't be a bad idea, but if the developers behind the games don't feel the need to do it, then perhaps it may be best not to force them to do anything. The Mario team does its best when they work at their own pace with their own ideas. That's what leads them to making games that virtually everyone can enjoy.

A little fan influence can help, however. I don't agree with some methods though, like blaming Rosalina for Daisy's lack of use or spamming Peach's miiverse for Daisy votes. Those are intrusive on other characters that have nothing to do with Daisy's lack of usage and ultimately just gives others a negative viewpoint of her due to the actions of her fans.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Which part of her omission doesn't make sense exactly? Sure Waluigi is in, but Toadette and the Koopalings and Nabbit and Birdo aren't in SMM either.


Now here's a long response, the type I was hoping to see.

Largely yeah, I do think you are right about how the general public probably isn't thinking about the technical aspects or side elements of why characters are used within the company. I still feel as though the fans owe it to themselves to look these sorts of things up before voicing their complaints however. There's a trend which I thought was obvious enough of how characters like Waluigi, Daisy and Wario never get appearances in the newest Mario platformer while finding characters like Yoshi, Jr., or Rosalina was easy enough. I noticed that and looked up the details myself and noticed common elements between the characters of group 1, and other common elements between the characters of group 2. I myself wasn't concerned with whether or not Waluigi/Daisy/Wario would appear in a Mario platformer though, and yet I still thought to look that sort of thing up. Why some fans of those characters feel like complaining and asking "why?" without doing research baffles me, tbh.

I'd like to note that Miyamoto bias might actually be a thing though. Miyamoto had spoken in an interview about how he didn't feel the need to have Rosalina in Super Mario Galaxy in the first place, and more specifically he said he didn't see why they needed another girl at all. The decision to make her as tall as she is in that game somewhat came as a result of Miyamoto thinking "well, as long as she's just doing Galaxy...", only for the Mario Kart team to essentially tell Miyamoto to piss off and then they utilized her anyways. Miyamoto later said in the same interview that he was just "feeling green" at the time and doesn't even understand why he had that opposition in the first place. There was also something said before about how Rosalina's storybook had to be snuck in by the director of the game, behind Miyamoto's back just because of his dislike of story. If you notice how Rosalina's game appearances were so minimal prior to 3D World, there's the reason for that. I wouldn't say with certainty that Daisy had the same issue, but I would say that Miyamoto's comments are definitely telling.


It wouldn't be a bad idea, but if the developers behind the games don't feel the need to do it, then perhaps it may be best not to force them to do anything. The Mario team does its best when they work at their own pace with their own ideas. That's what leads them to making games that virtually everyone can enjoy.

A little fan influence can help, however. I don't agree with some methods though, like blaming Rosalina for Daisy's lack of use or spamming Peach's miiverse for Daisy votes. Those are intrusive on other characters that have nothing to do with Daisy's lack of usage and ultimately just gives others a negative viewpoint of her due to the actions of her fans.

I agree, those who say that Rosalina stole Daisy's spotlight are ignorant fanboys who don't know what is really going on, I admit that I was a hypocrite to Rosalina, saying that I was neutral to her and yet my comments showed otherwise, but now I get the picture and see how things really are, just wished the Nintendo showed at least a hint or two that Daisy actually matters even a little to them.