The Sassy Princess of Sarasaland: Daisy for SSB4 (A New Daisy for Smash Thread Opens See Pg. 197)

[Daibon]

I just thought of something I'd like to ask you guys. Let's say Daisy does make it into the main games, but her whole character, the personality that makes her who she is, is changed completely. Even her appearance has changed. What would you guys think?

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

I just thought of something I'd like to ask you guys. Let's say Daisy does make it into the main games, but her whole character, the personality that makes her who she is, is changed completely. Even her appearance has changed. What would you guys think?

...That would basically mess up the reason we like her as a character, wouldn't it?

Her design would depend, as long as it fits her. But her personality is why I like Daisy for who she is.

 

[smashkirby]

I just thought of something I'd like to ask you guys. Let's say Daisy does make it into the main games, but her whole character, the personality that makes her who she is, is changed completely. Even her appearance has changed. What would you guys think?

Oh, good heavens, no! If anything, her personality is, at least to me, one of her big merits in being playable for Smash. Also, Princess Peach, I personally think, has already got the whole sweet and "ditzy" personality down, AND it actually fits her. BTW, I also think that the same could also be said for Rosalina. Her calm demeanor truly shines in Smash. As we all know by now, Princess Daisy is known for being loud-mouthed, competitive, athletic, and even a bit "hot-blooded" at times. That's practically made for a series like Smash! Heaven forbid they try to change her from all of that!

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I just thought of something I'd like to ask you guys. Let's say Daisy does make it into the main games, but her whole character, the personality that makes her who she is, is changed completely. Even her appearance has changed. What would you guys think?

And loose the major thing that distinguishes her from the other princesses? No thank you! I much rather have her in spin-offs only than to see her in the main games with a personality and design that is so much different than the character I grew fond and attached to.

 

[Babycowland]

I finally beat Super Mario Land the other day. I guess now I'm a "real" Daisy fan, haha.

I enjoyed the marine pop and sky pop levels a bunch. I think it'd be cool if something like that was added to future Mario games as a bonus game/change of pace level, sort of like the rocket barrel stuff in DK or the Captain Toad levels in Super Mario 3D World. Just make Daisy pilot them and we're set.

The music was also pretty neat. I'd forgotten how catchy it was, especially Muda Kingdom. I hope that makes it to Smash someday. The underground theme was heavily used in Brawl, so I think it's sort of a shame that Muda Kingdom or the main theme didn't join it in Smash 4. Maybe they have a chance of being songs in the new Super Mario Maker stage? I'm not optimistic about that, but I guess it's possible...

 

[SuperSegaSonicSS]

Stuff like this most likely won't make the fans look good.

 

[HanAmes]

I just thought of something I'd like to ask you guys. Let's say Daisy does make it into the main games, but her whole character, the personality that makes her who she is, is changed completely. Even her appearance has changed. What would you guys think?

If this were to happen, I'd actually quote one of Daisy's lines: "Aww, man...!" And then, what happened to the Daisy that we all knew and loved!? But real talk, my love and passion for Daisy would probably get weaker and weaker since she'd no longer be the character that I grew to love before, WHILE EVERY OTHER CHARACTER IN SMASH GETS TO BE THEMSELVES!!!!

Now, for MY question...what would her haters think if this would be true?

 

[smashkirby]

Stuff like this most likely won't make the fans look good.

OH....GOOD LORD.....PLEASE DON'T LET THIS GUY COME THROUGH.....PLEASE........ Seriously, this right here may give us Princess Daisy fans a REALLY bad name.....Come on man, couldn't you have just wrote a REALLY detailed letter?.................

 

[dangeraaron10]

OH....GOOD LORD.....PLEASE DON'T LET THIS GUY COME THROUGH.....PLEASE........ Seriously, this right here may give us Princess Daisy fans a REALLY bad name.....Come on man, couldn't you have just wrote a REALLY detailed letter?.................

Ouch.

One moron in GameFAQs says "Vote K. Rool, it's what Iwata would have wanted" and he sullies the image of K. Rool and all his fans in people's eyes. Stuff like this is just ASKING to be generalized as the entire Daisy fanbase. Generalizations and "bad apple spoils the bunch" mindset are laws of the land in Smash country.

So yeah, I'm not looking forward to see someone go "Hey guys, look at this? Daisy fans are real scum, aren't they?"

Again, I can empathize with ya'll (as a K. Rool and Ridley fan).

Even though you have to admire the guy's dedication. Booking a flight to Japan just to video tape yourself demanding Daisy to be in Smash, even if it won't accomplish much at all.

Edit: Honestly, he didn't really do anything that bad or cringe worthy. He just sorta tacked on "or else". I think if he went into WHY Daisy would be playable, while at the same time standing in front of Nintendo to prove a point, I think this could have got some positive reception.

 

[HanAmes]

Stuff like this most likely won't make the fans look good.

He...would really jump through hoops like this, just to try and make a difference...?? He's got some major balls, I'll give him that...but still foolish, nonetheless. Is he trying to tarnish the Daisy fan base?

 

[dangeraaron10]

He...would really jump through hoops like this, just to try and make a difference...?? He's got some major balls, I'll give him that...but still foolish, nonetheless. Is he trying to tarnish the Daisy fan base?

Like I said, you almost gotta respect that dedication.

 

[memoryman3]

Which part of her omission doesn't make sense exactly? Sure Waluigi is in, but Toadette and the Koopalings and Nabbit and Birdo aren't in SMM either.


Now here's a long response, the type I was hoping to see.

Largely yeah, I do think you are right about how the general public probably isn't thinking about the technical aspects or side elements of why characters are used within the company. I still feel as though the fans owe it to themselves to look these sorts of things up before voicing their complaints however. There's a trend which I thought was obvious enough of how characters like Waluigi, Daisy and Wario never get appearances in the newest Mario platformer while finding characters like Yoshi, Jr., or Rosalina was easy enough. I noticed that and looked up the details myself and noticed common elements between the characters of group 1, and other common elements between the characters of group 2. I myself wasn't concerned with whether or not Waluigi/Daisy/Wario would appear in a Mario platformer though, and yet I still thought to look that sort of thing up. Why some fans of those characters feel like complaining and asking "why?" without doing research baffles me, tbh.

I'd like to note that Miyamoto bias might actually be a thing though. Miyamoto had spoken in an interview about how he didn't feel the need to have Rosalina in Super Mario Galaxy in the first place, and more specifically he said he didn't see why they needed another girl at all. The decision to make her as tall as she is in that game somewhat came as a result of Miyamoto thinking "well, as long as she's just doing Galaxy...", only for the Mario Kart team to essentially tell Miyamoto to piss off and then they utilized her anyways. Miyamoto later said in the same interview that he was just "feeling green" at the time and
doesn't even understand why he had that opposition in the first place. There was also something said before about how Rosalina's storybook had to be snuck in by the director of the game, behind Miyamoto's back just because of his dislike of story. If you notice how Rosalina's game appearances were so minimal prior to 3D World, there's the reason for that. I wouldn't say with certainty that Daisy had the same issue, but I would say that Miyamoto's comments are definitely telling.


It wouldn't be a bad idea, but if the developers behind the games don't feel the need to do it, then perhaps it may be best not to force them to do anything. The Mario team does its best when they work at their own pace with their own ideas. That's what leads them to making games that virtually everyone can enjoy.

A little fan influence can help, however. I don't agree with some methods though, like blaming Rosalina for Daisy's lack of use or spamming Peach's miiverse for Daisy votes. Those are intrusive on other characters that have nothing to do with Daisy's lack of usage and ultimately just gives others

While I still don't get why Toadette and the Koopalings were excluded, Birdo is basically retired at this point.

But it's not like Daisy getting some recognition or appearing in a platformer again will ruin the experience. Just making her an optional playable character with unique statistics will go a long way towards the fans accepting her. Rosalina was unlockable in 3D World at the end of the game for example.

When the 100 Mario costumes were announced, some people like myself were excited at the idea of finally getting the opportunity of making levels themed around Daisy. As more and more details trickled in, such as Waluigi getting in, we got even more excited. After years of being stuck in multiplayer games with Peach and being mocked about it, this was the best game to show that Nintendo appreciates the existence of Daisy.

Yet she isn't mentioned in Mario's 30th anniversary in any way, shape or form, while the Mahjong tile and Wii Balance Board are.

This is concerning. Daisy's been in over 40 games - why didn't she even get a passing mention? No other character with that many appearances is ignored like that! This caused fans to question whether Miyamoto is biased against Daisy , or whether she's going to be phased out like Birdo. Her exclusion makes it seem like she was truly meant to exist as a way to shut up feminists...

This is a hard situation for people like us who want her in Smash. Now the naysayers have even more of a case for her being "irrelevant" and "worthless". And gaining support at this time is going to be even more difficult now. The GameFAQS problem wouldn't exist at all if she got better treatment by Nintendo.

Daisy may be royalty, but she's being treated like a working-class citizen.

 

[Tortilla Noggin]

Now here's a long response, the type I was hoping to see.

Hey, thanks.

Largely yeah, I do think you are right about how the general public probably isn't thinking about the technical aspects or side elements of why characters are used within the company. I still feel as though the fans owe it to themselves to look these sorts of things up before voicing their complaints however. There's a trend which I thought was obvious enough of how characters like Waluigi, Daisy and Wario never get appearances in the newest Mario platformer while finding characters like Yoshi, Jr., or Rosalina was easy enough. I noticed that and looked up the details myself and noticed common elements between the characters of group 1, and other common elements between the characters of group 2. I myself wasn't concerned with whether or not Waluigi/Daisy/Wario would appear in a Mario platformer though, and yet I still thought to look that sort of thing up. Why some fans of those characters feel like complaining and asking "why?" without doing research baffles me, tbh.

I had unconsciously noticed the pattern too, though this was definitely as a result of knowing that the characters did originate from different teams. That said, I never looked into it too deeply - I just figure that when someone on the team thinks of a good way to use the characters that they don't necessarily always use, they will, and I'll be happy to see it when they do.

I'd like to note that Miyamoto bias might actually be a thing though. Miyamoto had spoken in an interview about how he didn't feel the need to have Rosalina in Super Mario Galaxy in the first place, and more specifically he said he didn't see why they needed another girl at all. The decision to make her as tall as she is in that game somewhat came as a result of Miyamoto thinking "well, as long as she's just doing Galaxy...", only for the Mario Kart team to essentially tell Miyamoto to piss off and then they utilized her anyways. Miyamoto later said in the same interview that he was just "feeling green" at the time and doesn't even understand why he had that opposition in the first place. There was also something said before about how Rosalina's storybook had to be snuck in by the director of the game, behind Miyamoto's back just because of his dislike of story. If you notice how Rosalina's game appearances were so minimal prior to 3D World, there's the reason for that. I wouldn't say with certainty that Daisy had the same issue, but I would say that Miyamoto's comments are definitely telling.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that Miyamoto-bias may well be a real thing. I recall similar things relating to other series, too; The most notable of these for me is the situation with King K. Rool from the Donkey Kong series - in the same breath as extolling the virtues of delivering what's expected from the characters in New Super Mario Bros. Wii (i.e., Bowser kidnapping the princess, etc.), one of Miyamoto's co-workers was sounding suspiciously like Miyamoto (the interview in question had a strong flavour of words being put into others' mouths on the topic) in proclaiming "Does K. Rool really need to come back?" in Donkey Kong Country Returns and saying "Make sure there are no crocodiles in there this time!".

But that's neither here nor there. My point is, in the case of Daisy, I felt like a better explanation had to exist, since Miyamoto-bias felt a little convoluted in her case considering how she hasn't seen apparently-concerted efforts to blot her out, like other characters seemingly affected by this alleged bias have. Occam's Razor and all that!

I just thought of something I'd like to ask you guys. Let's say Daisy does make it into the main games, but her whole character, the personality that makes her who she is, is changed completely. Even her appearance has changed. What would you guys think?

I'd think that it wouldn't be Daisy, because it wouldn't be. Daisy in name only, as it were.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Stuff like this most likely won't make the fans look good.

Zor: "Sigh, another pointless conflict is about to begin."

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I now own Mario Maker.

Too bad Bowser Jr. probably has the ugliest sprtie.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Stuff like this most likely won't make the fans look good.

Damnit, I surely would NOT go such lengths, just a letter and that's it, this will make us Daisy fans look bad.

 

[HanAmes]

While I still don't get why Toadette and the Koopalings were excluded, Birdo is basically retired at this point.

But it's not like Daisy getting some recognition or appearing in a platformer again will ruin the experience. Just making her an optional playable character with unique statistics will go a long way towards the fans accepting her. Rosalina was unlockable in 3D World at the end of the game for example.

When the 100 Mario costumes were announced, some people like myself were excited at the idea of finally getting the opportunity of making levels themed around Daisy. As more and more details trickled in, such as Waluigi getting in, we got even more excited. After years of being stuck in multiplayer games with Peach and being mocked about it, this was the best game to show that Nintendo appreciates the existence of Daisy.

Yet she isn't mentioned in Mario's 30th anniversary in any way, shape or form, while the Mahjong tile and Wii Balance Board are.

This is concerning. Daisy's been in over 40 games - why didn't she even get a passing mention? No other character with that many appearances is ignored like that! This caused fans to question whether Miyamoto is biased against Daisy , or whether she's going to be phased out like Birdo. Her exclusion makes it seem like she was truly meant to exist as a way to shut up feminists...

This is a hard situation for people like us who want her in Smash. Now the naysayers have even more of a case for her being "irrelevant" and "worthless". And gaining support at this time is going to be even more difficult now. The GameFAQS problem wouldn't exist at all if she got better treatment by Nintendo.

Daisy may be royalty, but she's being treated like a working-class citizen.

You know, I just wish that she wasn't brushed to the side this much, being a well-known character an all. Even before Mario Maker, this has been going on: no HD official art for MP10, spin-off only track record, etc...she's not even in the Nintrendo Starlets photo (although I don't consider her a 'starlet,' I consider her a 'regular' star).

I really worry about these situations, and sometimes ponder on what if she really WAS phased out...? Would people actually remember her, then? Or would they forget about her altogether, given her role in sport / party games?

A naysayer once said that if they remove Rosalina, the fans would be so outraged and shocked at her exclusion, and even Peach to a larger extent, but Daisy on the other hand, they'll act like nothing ever happened. If this were to happen, though, I'd probably express my childish side and inherently hate every other character (except for Mario, of course!).

Nintendo has the power to change this stigma about Daisy to make her more likable, but the problem is, they're unwilling to do so. Of course Daisy has like 20% chance of being in a game like Smash and of course, the odds are against her, but with Mario Maker, the odds are in her favor, having somewhat of a 90% chance, and STILL doesn't make it! Just what does that tell you...? It seems like some major back door politics are being played against her inclusion, and to think that Nindy has the power to make all of this negativity disappear...us vocal fans are a part of the solution, and Nintendo could definitely be as well, but as of how things are right now, just like the haters, they're part of the problem.

 

[Quarium]

I always thought Miyamoto just didn't care much for her since he didn't make her. So that was always my reasoning as to why she isn't in a main Mario game or even Mario maker.

I am a pretty big Daisy fan and would love to see her around a lot more for sure.

 

[Mr. Bulldops]

I agree, those who say that Rosalina stole Daisy's spotlight are ignorant fanboys who don't know what is really going on, I admit that I was a hypocrite to Rosalina, saying that I was neutral to her and yet my comments showed otherwise, but now I get the picture and see how things really are, just wished the Nintendo showed at least a hint or two that Daisy actually matters even a little to them.

I hadn't seen your comments when I made my post (still haven't, actually), but I'm glad to see that my words aren't falling on deaf ears.

The big misconceptions that people hold don't really help anyone. The 3D World devs cited Rosalina's inclusion as being somewhat fan-based due to the fandom she built after Galaxy, and my thinking is that having Daisy's fandom complain about that is detrimental as all it does is make others (those who are fans of Rosalina and neutral bystanders) become annoyed with Daisy due to her fans. It would just be a repeat of what happened with Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings where the two have to fight each other to even appear in games at all.

Daisy may be royalty, but she's being treated like a working-class citizen.

Part of the problem with Gamefaqs is your incessant posting. Seriously, stop that.

Anyways, there isn't much to think about there. A character like Toadette, who was only used for spinoffs like Daisy and Waluigi, managed to cameo in a game so soon after her debut as Galaxy, and even get a noteworthy appearance in a spinoff of a main series title. Yet even then she's not in SMM for no known reason. Another character who was in the main series like Toadsworth isn't there. Case in point, it's not a totally big deal. The majority of character additions were amiibo based anyways. Super Mario Maker's costumes largely don't reflect Mario's history on their own. Thanks to several key Mario cast members having amiibos, we can see it like that though, but the ones that were made without amiibos (that are currently known anyways) don't fit the mold of Mario. Yeah, there's Mahjong tile and Wii Balance Board. There's also the entire Star Fox crew and an Arwing of all things, Nikki, Ashley, Dr. Lobe, and the mascot of Famitsu. Daisy's exclusion isn't exactly the only weird thing they did.

I had unconsciously noticed the pattern too, though this was definitely as a result of knowing that the characters did originate from different teams. That said, I never looked into it too deeply - I just figure that when someone on the team thinks of a good way to use the characters that they don't necessarily always use, they will, and I'll be happy to see it when they do.

That's something that does tend to happen. Characters are used in part because someone wants to use them. That's pretty much how Captain Toad got his own game. Well, that and Nintendo wanting another Wii U title that pushes usage of the gamepad screen of course.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that Miyamoto-bias may well be a real thing. I recall similar things relating to other series, too; The most notable of these for me is the situation with King K. Rool from the Donkey Kong series - in the same breath as extolling the virtues of delivering what's expected from the characters in New Super Mario Bros. Wii (i.e., Bowser kidnapping the princess, etc.), one of Miyamoto's co-workers was sounding suspiciously like Miyamoto (the interview in question had a strong flavour of words being put into others' mouths on the topic) in proclaiming "Does K. Rool really need to come back?" in Donkey Kong Country Returns and saying "Make sure there are no crocodiles in there this time!".

I've heard that the case with DKCR is that the team just wanted to make their own game and prove that they can do DKC without having nostalgia play any part. Something along those lines anyways.

But that's neither here nor there. My point is, in the case of Daisy, I felt like a better explanation had to exist, since Miyamoto-bias felt a little convoluted in her case considering how she hasn't seen apparently-concerted efforts to blot her out, like other characters seemingly affected by this alleged bias have. Occam's Razor and all that!

True. Most Mario games have their explanation being what I stated earlier.

It should be worth noting though that at least for Smash, character inclusions are entirely up to Sakurai. He can accept and reject most anything and it's all on his own accord. A character like Snake made it in Brawl purely because Sakurai is buddies with Kojima. Smash 4 showed him making Robin, Rosalina, and Duck Hunt as the first additions to the game and noted how their unique attributes would help define a core theme of the roster this time around. Daisy not being in Smash is a particular bit I see people complain about but it has an entirely different reason altogether for why that's the case. Moveset-wise, you'd be giving her sports tools everywhere which Sakurai doesn't value, seeing as all Mario reps (barring Dr. Mario who is an exception for his own reasons) have a central focus on the platformers for their moves. Most everything you can give Daisy is spinoff material, which isn't necessarily a problem in moderation (after all, Peach's side smash has her using tennis rackets and golf clubs, Bowser Jr.'s side special is Mario Kart inspired, and Rosalina has some aerials and tilts based off of her tricks from Mario Kart Wii and 8), but a whole moveset comprising of such things would make Waluigi fans question why he didn't get in. While you can make a case for flowers or crystals or whatever being in her moveset, the problem then arises that there needs to be a central theme to her style, much like every other unique Smash 4 newcomer. A whole moveset of just spinoff representation is the closest thing to something like that, but when another character is about as equally viable, it makes it hard to really work with either of them.

Of course Daisy has like 20% chance of being in a game like Smash and of course, the odds are against her, but with Mario Maker, the odds are in her favor, having somewhat of a 90% chance, and STILL doesn't make it! Just what does that tell you...? It seems like some major back door politics are being played against her inclusion

Then what do you think of Nabbit, Toadette, Toadsworth, Birdo, and the Koopalings? None of them are in Super Mario Maker either.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

You know, I just wish that she wasn't brushed to the side this much, being a well-known character an all. Even before Mario Maker, this has been going on: no HD official art for MP10, spin-off only track record, etc...she's not even in the Nintrendo Starlets photo (although I don't consider her a 'starlet,' I consider her a 'regular' star).

I really worry about these situations, and sometimes ponder on what if she really WAS phased out...? Would people actually remember her, then? Or would they forget about her altogether, given her role in sport / party games?

A naysayer once said that if they remove Rosalina, the fans would be so outraged and shocked at her exclusion, and even Peach to a larger extent, but Daisy on the other hand, they'll act like nothing ever happened. If this were to happen, though, I'd probably express my childish side and inherently hate every other character (except for Mario, of course!).

Nintendo has the power to change this stigma about Daisy to make her more likable, but the problem is, they're unwilling to do so. Of course Daisy has like 20% chance of being in a game like Smash and of course, the odds are against her, but with Mario Maker, the odds are in her favor, having somewhat of a 90% chance, and STILL doesn't make it! Just what does that tell you...? It seems like some major back door politics are being played against her inclusion, and to think that Nindy has the power to make all of this negativity disappear...us vocal fans are a part of the solution, and Nintendo could definitely be as well, but as of how things are right now, just like the haters, they're part of the problem.

And it seems either Nintendo doesn't want anything to do with her, bias, not risk haters, or just plain doesn't know what to do with, see as unnecessary for the main series if the fiasco with how Rosalina wasn't gonna appear in any more games aside from Galaxy, or who the heck knows.

I always thought Miyamoto just didn't care much for her since he didn't make her. So that was always my reasoning as to why she isn't in a main Mario game or even Mario maker.
I am a pretty big Daisy fan and would love to see her around a lot more for sure.

Thanks. Nice to see there are a lot of fans out there and not as many haters as people make them out to be, welcome aboard.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I hadn't seen your comments when I made my post (still haven't, actually), but I'm glad to see that my words aren't falling on deaf ears.

The big misconceptions that people hold don't really help anyone. The 3D World devs cited Rosalina's inclusion as being somewhat fan-based due to the fandom she built after Galaxy, and my thinking is that having Daisy's fandom complain about that is detrimental as all it does is make others (those who are fans of Rosalina and neutral bystanders) become annoyed with Daisy due to her fans. It would just be a repeat of what happened with Bowser Jr. and the Koopalings where the two have to fight each other to even appear in games at all.


Part of the problem with Gamefaqs is your incessant posting. Seriously, stop that.

Anyways, there isn't much to think about there. A character like Toadette, who was only used for spinoffs like Daisy and Waluigi, managed to cameo in a game so soon after her debut as Galaxy, and even get a noteworthy appearance in a spinoff of a main series title. Yet even then she's not in SMM for no known reason. Another character who was in the main series like Toadsworth isn't there. Case in point, it's not a totally big deal. The majority of character additions were amiibo based anyways. Super Mario Maker's costumes largely don't reflect Mario's history on their own. Thanks to several key Mario cast members having amiibos, we can see it like that though, but the ones that were made without amiibos (that are currently known anyways) don't fit the mold of Mario. Yeah, there's Mahjong tile and Wii Balance Board. There's also the entire Star Fox crew and an Arwing of all things, Nikki, Ashley, Dr. Lobe, and the mascot of Famitsu. Daisy's exclusion isn't exactly the only weird thing they did.


That's something that does tend to happen. Characters are used in part because someone wants to use them. That's pretty much how Captain Toad got his own game. Well, that and Nintendo wanting another Wii U title that pushes usage of the gamepad screen of course.


I've heard that the case with DKCR is that the team just wanted to make their own game and prove that they can do DKC without having nostalgia play any part. Something along those lines anyways.


True. Most Mario games have their explanation being what I stated earlier.

It should be worth noting though that at least for Smash, character inclusions are entirely up to Sakurai. He can accept and reject most anything and it's all on his own accord. A character like Snake made it in Brawl purely because Sakurai is buddies with Kojima. Smash 4 showed him making Robin, Rosalina, and Duck Hunt as the first additions to the game and noted how their unique attributes would help define a core theme of the roster this time around. Daisy not being in Smash is a particular bit I see people complain about but it has an entirely different reason altogether for why that's the case. Moveset-wise, you'd be giving her sports tools everywhere which Sakurai doesn't value, seeing as all Mario reps (barring Dr. Mario who is an exception for his own reasons) have a central focus on the platformers for their moves. Most everything you can give Daisy is spinoff material, which isn't necessarily a problem in moderation (after all, Peach's side smash has her using tennis rackets and golf clubs, Bowser Jr.'s side special is Mario Kart inspired, and Rosalina has some aerials and tilts based off of her tricks from Mario Kart Wii and 8), but a whole moveset comprising of such things would make Waluigi fans question why he didn't get in. While you can make a case for flowers or crystals or whatever being in her moveset, the problem then arises that there needs to be a central theme to her style, much like every other unique Smash 4 newcomer. A whole moveset of just spinoff representation is the closest thing to something like that, but when another character is about as equally viable, it makes it hard to really work with either of them.


Then what do you think of Nabbit, Toadette, Toadsworth, Birdo, and the Koopalings? None of them are in Super Mario Maker either.

Wait Miller? Are you a Metal Gear fan too?

 

[Furret24]

You know, I just wish that she wasn't brushed to the side this much, being a well-known character an all. Even before Mario Maker, this has been going on: no HD official art for MP10, spin-off only track record, etc...she's not even in the Nintrendo Starlets photo (although I don't consider her a 'starlet,' I consider her a 'regular' star).

I really worry about these situations, and sometimes ponder on what if she really WAS phased out...? Would people actually remember her, then? Or would they forget about her altogether, given her role in sport / party games?

A naysayer once said that if they remove Rosalina, the fans would be so outraged and shocked at her exclusion, and even Peach to a larger extent, but Daisy on the other hand, they'll act like nothing ever happened. If this were to happen, though, I'd probably express my childish side and inherently hate every other character (except for Mario, of course!).

Nintendo has the power to change this stigma about Daisy to make her more likable, but the problem is, they're unwilling to do so. Of course Daisy has like 20% chance of being in a game like Smash and of course, the odds are against her, but with Mario Maker, the odds are in her favor, having somewhat of a 90% chance, and STILL doesn't make it! Just what does that tell you...? It seems like some major back door politics are being played against her inclusion, and to think that Nindy has the power to make all of this negativity disappear...us vocal fans are a part of the solution, and Nintendo could definitely be as well, but as of how things are right now, just like the haters, they're part of the problem.

20% chance in Smash? I wouldn't give even the top contenders more than 30% (Wolf being the exception).

 

[Mr. Bulldops]

Wait Miller? Are you a Metal Gear fan too?

I dabble with it every now and then. Haven't gotten a chance to play GZ or TPP yet though.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I dabble with it every now and then. Haven't gotten a chance to play GZ or TPP yet though.

You're in for a real treat, that much I'll tell you, no spoilers though, and yeah, freaking Michaellol and his ragtag of fanboys are the reason GameFaqs goes haywire when people mention Daisy.

 

[Deleted member]

Everytime I hear that Nintendo kept promoting Rosalina "because the fans" or whatever...I just don't buy it. The team purposefully created a new, human princess character for Mario Galaxy. They knew what they were doing. Maybe they didn't know for sure what would happen with the character, but they wanted to create a great character that could be remembered and possibly seen again. They purposefully gave her an interesting backstory so players would connect with her. It's not rocket science.
And then think about the spin-offs, like Mario Kart; they usually include characters relevant to the games of that generation. For example Petey Piranha and King Boo (from Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion) made it into MK: Double Dash. So it would make a lot of sense to add Rosalina into Mario Kart Wii. But she just seemed to fit right in, so she kept coming back.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

Everytime I hear that Nintendo kept promoting Rosalina "because the fans" or whatever...I just don't buy it. The team purposefully created a new, human princess character for Mario Galaxy. They knew what they were doing. Maybe they didn't know for sure what would happen with the character, but they wanted to create a great character that could be remembered and possibly seen again. They purposefully gave her an interesting backstory so players would connect with her. It's not rocket science.
And then think about the spin-offs, like Mario Kart; they usually include characters relevant to the games of that generation. For example Petey Piranha and King Boo (from Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion) made it into MK: Double Dash. So it would make a lot of sense to add Rosalina into Mario Kart Wii. But she just seemed to fit right in, so she kept coming back.

You really think so? Not just you a few Rosalina fans here and there even say that Nintendo has been overdoing it a little with her lately, and about people not caring if Daisy is gone: Communities like DeviantArt, Tumblr, Pixiv and others say hi.

 

[Mr. Bulldops]

You're in for a real treat, that much I'll tell you, no spoilers though, and yeah, freaking Michaellol and his ragtag of fanboys are the reason GameFaqs goes haywire when people mention Daisy.

I've heard great things about everything except the story, so yeah.

Everytime I hear that Nintendo kept promoting Rosalina "because the fans" or whatever...I just don't buy it. The team purposefully created a new, human princess character for Mario Galaxy. They knew what they were doing. Maybe they didn't know for sure what would happen with the character, but they wanted to create a great character that could be remembered and possibly seen again. They purposefully gave her an interesting backstory so players would connect with her. It's not rocket science.
And then think about the spin-offs, like Mario Kart; they usually include characters relevant to the games of that generation. For example Petey Piranha and King Boo (from Mario Sunshine and Luigi's Mansion) made it into MK: Double Dash. So it would make a lot of sense to add Rosalina into Mario Kart Wii. But she just seemed to fit right in, so she kept coming back.

I don't think it's the only reason, but I imagine that it has to be part of the reason if nothing else. If she was created to be promoted, then we would've seen her more after Galaxy and before 3D World besides Galaxy 2 and two Kart games. I know they created the character to be enjoyed because the director of Galaxy himself stated that he wanted to break some barriers that he felt the series was making for itself, such as the restriction on story.

The funny thing about her fitting in was that Miyamoto thought her being as tall as she was would prevent her from getting in for some reason. The Mario Kart team of course simply resized her as they do with Bowser and others.

You really think so? Not just you a few Rosalina fans here and there even say that Nintendo has been overdoing it a little with her lately, and about people not caring if Daisy is gone: Communities like DeviantArt, Tumblr, Pixiv and others say hi.

People saying Rosalina is being overused are pretty ignorant of Mario in general. Bowser Jr. had more appearances in games than Rosalina did (keep in mind that throughout the entire Wii era, Rosalina only appeared in 3 games; Jr. appeared in at least 5), or how Yoshi and Wario got whole franchises practically right out of the gate after their debuts. With Jr. in particular people complained back then and you generally had people who cited the Koopalings being absent as notable complainers, not unlike the situation today with Rosalina and Daisy. This is far from anything new and it will probably cool down to the point of being forgotten again when Nabbit becomes subject to the same criticism during the next console generation. History repeats itself because everyone forgets these details.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I've heard great things about everything except the story, so yeah.


I don't think it's the only reason, but I imagine that it has to be part of the reason if nothing else. If she was created to be promoted, then we would've seen her more after Galaxy and before 3D World besides Galaxy 2 and two Kart games. I know they created the character to be enjoyed because the director of Galaxy himself stated that he wanted to break some barriers that he felt the series was making for itself, such as the restriction on story.

The funny thing about her fitting in was that Miyamoto thought her being as tall as she was would prevent her from getting in for some reason. The Mario Kart team of course simply resized her as they do with Bowser and others.


People saying Rosalina is being overused are pretty ignorant of Mario in general. Bowser Jr. had more appearances in games than Rosalina did (keep in mind that throughout the entire Wii era, Rosalina only appeared in 3 games; Jr. appeared in at least 5), or how Yoshi and Wario got whole franchises practically right out of the gate after their debuts. With Jr. in particular people complained back then and you generally had people who cited the Koopalings being absent as notable complainers, not unlike the situation today with Rosalina and Daisy. This is far from anything new and it will probably cool down to the point of being forgotten again when Nabbit becomes subject to the same criticism during the next console generation. History repeats itself because everyone forgets these details.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I did hear some complains back in the days of Sunshine when Jr debuted.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Yeah, now that you mention it, I did hear some complains back in the days of Sunshine when Jr debuted.

Of course, many Koopalings fans bashed him for being a clone of a Baby Bowser or simply robbing them of their relevance. While the truth is that simply that developers didn't know what else to do with them due to the lack of sidescrolling Mario titles and they weren't bought back until New Super Mario Bros. Wii. The fact that Miyamoto would recently retcon their relationship with Bowser and announcing that Junior is the only biological child added more fuel to the fire.

 

[memoryman3]

I've heard great things about everything except the story, so yeah.


I don't think it's the only reason, but I imagine that it has to be part of the reason if nothing else. If she was created to be promoted, then we would've seen her more after Galaxy and before 3D World besides Galaxy 2 and two Kart games. I know they created the character to be enjoyed because the director of Galaxy himself stated that he wanted to break some barriers that he felt the series was making for itself, such as the restriction on story.

The funny thing about her fitting in was that Miyamoto thought her being as tall as she was would prevent her from getting in for some reason. The Mario Kart team of course simply resized her as they do with Bowser and others.


People saying Rosalina is being overused are pretty ignorant of Mario in general. Bowser Jr. had more appearances in games than Rosalina did (keep in mind that throughout the entire Wii era, Rosalina only appeared in 3 games; Jr. appeared in at least 5), or how Yoshi and Wario got whole franchises practically right out of the gate after their debuts. With Jr. in particular people complained back then and you generally had people who cited the Koopalings being absent as notable complainers, not unlike the situation today with Rosalina and Daisy. This is far from anything new and it will probably cool down to the point of being forgotten again when Nabbit becomes subject to the same criticism during the next console generation. History repeats itself because everyone forgets these details.

Well the difference is that Rosalina has an amiibo and Daisy hasn't, which has serious drawbacks.

Suddenly, you see that Amiibo characters are making all sorts of appearances! Sonic is playable in a Mario platformer before Daisy is!

 

[HanAmes]

Then what do you think of Nabbit, Toadette, Toadsworth, Birdo, and the Koopalings? None of them are in Super Mario Maker either.

That's true, but I only stuck to the subject of my favorite character, since she is well known and consistent in the spin-offs to this day.

But anyway, here's what I think about Nabbit, Toadette, Toadsworth, Birdo, and the Koopalings...I believe that they should've been costumes as well; at least should've had more priority than a springboard, a wii fit board, a whole lot of AC characters, and five different Yoshis.

Nabbit had his run with the NSMB series, in which SMM features as well. Toadette is finally a character in an actual game, not to mention, home made by Mario developers, so to speak (I think but not too sure...), Toadsworth is pretty well known, too, Birdo is a part of Mario's history as well as having quite the fan base, and dude, don't get me started on the Koopalings...! The Koopalings are an integral part of Mario's history, dating all the way back to the NES days. They were active during SMB3, SMW, and NSMB, where you can make stages using those points in time (didn't know how to explain it...)

Lastly, I'll also make a case for Pauline, who also doesn't have a costume. If there's anyone who represents Mario's history, even before the conception of Peach, is Pauline. I even consider her more important than a mere springboard, and she's even made a comeback in the MvDK series.

So, in conclusion, all of the aforementioned characters should've had a spot in SMM instead of scrapping at the bottom of the proverbial barrel with a bunch of random objects, and such.

 

[Deleted member]

The funny thing about her fitting in was that Miyamoto thought her being as tall as she was would prevent her from getting in for some reason. The Mario Kart team of course simply resized her as they do with Bowser and others.

I've always been perplexed about the notion of Rosalina's exceptional height. When she debuted in Mario Galaxy, she was an NPC. NPC's are often scaled larger. The NPC's in Mario Kart 8 are huge compared to the drivers. I suppose she may indeed be slightly taller than Peach, but she's no giant.

People saying Rosalina is being overused are pretty ignorant of Mario in general. Bowser Jr. had more appearances in games than Rosalina did (keep in mind that throughout the entire Wii era, Rosalina only appeared in 3 games; Jr. appeared in at least 5), or how Yoshi and Wario got whole franchises practically right out of the gate after their debuts. With Jr. in particular people complained back then and you generally had people who cited the Koopalings being absent as notable complainers, not unlike the situation today with Rosalina and Daisy. This is far from anything new and it will probably cool down to the point of being forgotten again when Nabbit becomes subject to the same criticism during the next console generation. History repeats itself because everyone forgets these details.

Very good points. Rosalina may indeed be kind of taking the spotlight right now, but I don't think Daisy is going anywhere. Both of them have already appeared together in a number of games.

 

[Ark of Silence101]

I've always been perplexed about the notion of Rosalina's exceptional height. When she debuted in Mario Galaxy, she was an NPC. NPC's are often scaled larger. The NPC's in Mario Kart 8 are huge compared to the drivers. I suppose she may indeed be slightly taller than Peach, but she's no giant.


Very good points. Rosalina may indeed be kind of taking the spotlight right now, but I don't think Daisy is going anywhere. Both of them have already appeared together in a number of games.

Hope so, even if its her usual spin-off only role.

 

[HanAmes]

I've always been perplexed about the notion of Rosalina's exceptional height. When she debuted in Mario Galaxy, she was an NPC. NPC's are often scaled larger. The NPC's in Mario Kart 8 are huge compared to the drivers. I suppose she may indeed be slightly taller than Peach, but she's no giant.

Some sources actually lists her over 7 feet tall. I got it from the Rosalina Thread!

 

[Killo89]

I've always been perplexed about the notion of Rosalina's exceptional height. When she debuted in Mario Galaxy, she was an NPC. NPC's are often scaled larger. The NPC's in Mario Kart 8 are huge compared to the drivers. I suppose she may indeed be slightly taller than Peach, but she's no giant.

Canonnically (how do you spell this) taller than Ganondorf and Power Suit Samus, but always resized. As tall as Peach in 3D World, taller than her in MK series, way taller than her in Smash, and a gigantic monster compared to her in Galaxy.

a new human princess character

Be careful, calling Rosalina a princess could be dangerous (no seriously she is't)

That's true, but I only stuck to the subject of my favorite character, since she is well known and consistent in the spin-offs to this day.

But anyway, here's what I think about Nabbit, Toadette, Toadsworth, Birdo, and the Koopalings...I believe that they should've been costumes as well; at least should've had more priority than a springboard, a wii fit board, a whole lot of AC characters, and five different Yoshis.

Nabbit had his run with the NSMB series, in which SMM features as well. Toadette is finally a character in an actual game, not to mention, home made by Mario developers, so to speak (I think but not too sure...), Toadsworth is pretty well known, too, Birdo is a part of Mario's history as well as having quite the fan base, and dude, don't get me started on the Koopalings...! The Koopalings are an integral part of Mario's history, dating all the way back to the NES days. They were active during SMB3, SMW, and NSMB, where you can make stages using those points in time (didn't know how to explain it...)

Lastly, I'll also make a case for Pauline, who also doesn't have a costume. If there's anyone who represents Mario's history, even before the conception of Peach, is Pauline. I even consider her more important than a mere springboard, and she's even made a comeback in the MvDK series.

So, in conclusion, all of the aforementioned characters should've had a spot in SMM instead of scrapping at the bottom of the proverbial barrel with a bunch of random objects, and such.

Pauline, dear Pauline. She can receive all the pity and help of the world she wouldn't do much except being kidnapped by DK.
She used to remind me Daisy's situation, but with way less supporters. Just some people screaming in the corner of the Internet, never heard. But she stills remains the damsel in distress Mario has to save. And she's one of the first Mario characters. Meaning seniority really doesn't have its place in Mario's history.

 

[HanAmes]

I've always been perplexed about the notion of Rosalina's exceptional height. When she debuted in Mario Galaxy, she was an NPC. NPC's are often scaled larger. The NPC's in Mario Kart 8 are huge compared to the drivers. I suppose she may indeed be slightly taller than Peach, but she's no giant.


Very good points. Rosalina may indeed be kind of taking the spotlight right now, but I don't think Daisy is going anywhere. Both of them have already appeared together in a number of games.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

View attachment 74088

More like Rosalina's reaction to Lucina and Fiora appearing in Project X Zone 2 over her.

 

[memoryman3]

I noticed that this site got a complete revamp...

And the OP is now editable again!

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

I noticed that this site got a complete revamp...

And the OP is now editable again!

I would like to celebrate by moving the new support list to the OP, but I'm in the middle of a museum trip for this fine afternoon. I will get around to changing it this evening however.

And one more thing, Yeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaw! Hi I'm Dayzee!

 

[Deleted member]

Canonnically (how do you spell this) taller than Ganondorf and Power Suit Samus, but always resized. As tall as Peach in 3D World, taller than her in MK series, way taller than her in Smash, and a gigantic monster compared to her in Galaxy.

Be careful, calling Rosalina a princess could be dangerous (no seriously she is't)

I would take every actual measurement of her height with a grain of salt, especially since, as you pointed out, her height changes depending on the game. I think all we can be sure of is that she is a tall woman, apparently taller than Peach. I mean look at this official image:

Yep, taller than Luigi. But look at this:

Peach is also taller than Luigi, nearly by the same amount. I honestly think the main reason Rosalina is pushed to be so tall is that it helps make her more unique in games like Mario Kart, where we can have the first ever female heavyweight.

As far as her being a princess...yes, yes she is. She was the daughter of royalty (no one else lives in castles), and before she became the space goddess both she and her mother wore crowns. So there you go, mystery solved.

Oh, and vote Daisy for Smash.