The Roster Size Thread

[papagenos]

There is no reason for young link or pichu to return, especially given pikachus hat changes (the brawl pikachu and i assume the smash 4 pikachu wear the same "hats" as pichu in melee implying he evolved) so I don't think 59 is very likely at all.

That said I'm banking on 47-48 characters Squirtle Ivysaur Lucas Snake cut, the gematsu/sal leak plus the rest of the brawl vets and possibly one more character, the most likely being mewtwo (for many reasons) mostly because he would not "count" as a newcomer much like how the Gematsu/Sal leak didn't mention Charizard. But the 48th spot could be many things including: Lucas NOT being cut, simply the random button spot (so 47 characters), or some other newcomer (like how rosalina was not mentioned by Sal...tho that was most likly because she was revealed inbetween leaks imo).

I also strongly believe the RosalinaX leak at this point that said 48 characters 4 cuts... I believe it mostly because when RosalinaX was pushed for more info we got a response saying Lucas might be cut...which now fits with Sal/Gematsu... of course 48/4cuts could have meant 48 SPOTS one of which being the random button so 47 characters... either way even RosalinaX said it was subject to change.

However given that Gematsu/Sal is almost certainly 100% true at this point that means DLC characters are also true...so a final roster after DLC of say 50-51 characters is what I'm guessing.

Those DLC characters are more likely to be:

1.any cut characters (Squirtle/Ivysaur/Lucas/ POSSIBLY Snake).

2.old Cut Melee vets (Mewtwo/Roy POSSIBLY others but with high possibility of dr mario alt for mario and the uselessness of adding back pichu/young link i doubt it).

3.POSSIBLY someone else, Isaac for example (if he remains to be cut from the assist trophies, I have seriosu doubts that nayone who is already present in the game in some way will become playable as DLC... maybe ridley could pull an Alfonso with meta ridley MAYBE...and thats if he isn't that 48th spot already) or possibly dixie/k rool lucina ect..



Can someone please post a link or something to where a nintendo rep said the roster was "massive"? If thats the case I may change my stance on the roster size though I really want to see who said it and in what context... basically was it PR just trying to sell the game or someone from treehouse who play tested and is really telling us what they saw of the final roster and it's BIG.

 

[Jumpman84]

There is no reason for young link or pichu to return, especially given pikachus hat changes (the brawl pikachu and i assume the smash 4 pikachu wear the same "hats" as pichu in melee implying he evolved) so I don't think 59 is very likely at all.

Being veterans of Smash is reason enough.

2.old Cut Melee vets (Mewtwo/Roy POSSIBLY others but with high possibility of dr mario alt for mario and the uselessness of adding back pichu/young link i doubt it).

It's only your opinion that they are useless. On the contrary, the pros FAR outweigh the cons (which are practically none). Also, Dr. Mario is his own character, NOT an alt to Mario...

 

[papagenos]

Being veterans of Smash is reason enough.



It's only your opinion that they are useless. On the contrary, the pros FAR outweigh the cons (which are practically none). Also, Dr. Mario is his own character, NOT an alt to Mario...

I'm just gonna say we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one because I really REALLY do not feel that young link, for example, will ever return. He IS toon link now.

And I have similar issues with many of the melee clones returning as their own characters for a massive roster this time. I just don't see it happening and I can't psych myself up for that many characters, brawl was too disappointing this time I'm being realistically pessimistic here.

But hey i'd love to be wrong.

[edit] I do think dr mario and for example dark pit will be alts and not their own characters but thats just my opinion and i base that on the fact that alts seem to be all over the place this time around, we've seen multiple characters some of which even have multiple alts (villager).

 

[Curious Villager]

I personally feel DLC would just be done for any character who didn't make it in due to time constraints and perhaps any veterans who may have ended up getting cut. I wouldn't be surprised if we got a few semi-clones through this too.

 

[Fox fan6667]

need krystal no wolf

 

[Jumpman84]

I'm just gonna say we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one because I really REALLY do not feel that young link, for example, will ever return. He IS toon link now.

And I have similar issues with many of the melee clones returning as their own characters for a massive roster this time. I just don't see it happening and I can't psych myself up for that many characters, brawl was too disappointing this time I'm being realistically pessimistic here.

But hey i'd love to be wrong.

[edit] I do think dr mario and for example dark pit will be alts and not their own characters but thats just my opinion and i base that on the fact that alts seem to be all over the place this time around, we've seen multiple characters some of which even have multiple alts (villager).

That's fine and I understand your points. I just feel that veterans are the most important characters to the franchise and, pending time constraints, there is no reason for them to not return. All of the Melee 5 were victim to time constraints. (I have never bought the whole Young Link is Toon Link thing. If they were intended to be the same, they would have been named the same.) Dr. Mario has already been shot down as a costume by Sakurai (though he could change his mind). It would also, in my opinion, be an insult to Dr. Mario fans to downgrade him to costume.

The way I see it, they could make these characters unique in their own ways. Dr. Mario can get more pill and puzzle based moves (and a Dr. Luigi alt). Young Link would give us three Links, in conjunction with the split timeline. Pichu has a unique mechanic and with some tweaking, could be a very good character. And the costume issue? Give him Pikachu's old swag (the blue party hat, the green cowboy hat, etc.).

Regardless, we'll see what happens when the game comes out...

 

[papagenos]

That's fine and I understand your points. I just feel that veterans are the most important characters to the franchise and, pending time constraints, there is no reason for them to not return. All of the Melee 5 were victim to time constraints. (I have never bought the whole Young Link is Toon Link thing. If they were intended to be the same, they would have been named the same.) Dr. Mario has already been shot down as a costume by Sakurai (though he could change his mind). It would also, in my opinion, be an insult to Dr. Mario fans to downgrade him to costume.

The way I see it, they could make these characters unique in their own ways. Dr. Mario can get more pill and puzzle based moves (and a Dr. Luigi alt). Young Link would give us three Links, in conjunction with the split timeline. Pichu has a unique mechanic and with some tweaking, could be a very good character. And the costume issue? Give him Pikachu's old swag (the blue party hat, the green cowboy hat, etc.).

Regardless, we'll see what happens when the game comes out...

I totally agree the vets are the most important I just think DLC will involve: Squirtle, Ivysaur, Lucas(if cut obviously), Mewtwo and MAYBE Roy because of fan demand and a huge MAYBE for Snake if konami and nintendo make a deal or something...

then less likely maybe one or 2 newcomers, possiblly some of the planned brawl characters? but i dont see it being a huge 59 character roster but we'll see...

 

[Sabrewulf238]

I dunno about that. The roster would feel way too overstuffed with characters reps if everyone returned. For example, the Pokemon franchise would have TEN playable characters in one game.

I love Pokemon, but returning all veterans would put too much focus on the top games/franchises represented when other perfectly valid characters could've been put in instead. I.e. Young Link over newcomer Ghirahim? NOPE.

Plus, it would come off as a lazy and uninspired move from Nintendo IMO. (Especially when a few of those veterans are just clones.)

Yeah I agree. Do we really need Pichu, Dr. Mario or Young Link? Do they actually offer smash anything new or exciting?

Heck even Squirtle and Ivysaur are a bit questionable on their own without a gimmick to back them up.

Even though I really want Mewtwo and it pains me to say this, you have to ask yourself: Do we want characters that were considered the "excess fat" or the "dead weight"?

Mewtwo, Roy and maybe Lucas are salvageable but I don't see much hope for the rest. Particularly Pichu and Young Link.

 

[Jumpman84]

Yeah I agree. Do we really need Pichu, Dr. Mario or Young Link?

Yes. Yes we do.

Do they actually offer smash anything new or exciting?

They very likely will,

Heck even Squirtle and Ivysaur are a bit questionable on their own without a gimmick to back them up.

They aren't questionable at all. They're still Smash veterans.

 

[Sabrewulf238]

Yes. Yes we do.
They very likely will,
They aren't questionable at all. They're still Smash veterans.

I guess being a smash veteran was how Pichu appeared playable in brawl. Being a smash veteran doesn't mean you'll return, which is where the "questionable" comes in.

I'd love someone to enlighten me on why Pichu and Young Link are so deserving of a return, something that isn't "uh....they appeared in melee....so there!".

 

[Jumpman84]

I guess being a smash veteran was how Pichu appeared playable in brawl. Being a smash veteran doesn't mean you'll return, which is where the "questionable" comes in.

I'd love someone to enlighten me on why Pichu and Young Link are so deserving of a return, something that isn't "uh....they appeared in melee....so there!".

I'm sure Pichu would have made the cut if there hadn't been time constraints. That is pretty much the only reason a veteran can't return (except for Snake). Your reasoning of being in Melee not enough justification is flawed, as it's no different than people wanting Mewtwo and Roy to return since he was in Melee...

 

[Curious Villager]

I don't believe they had any intentions to bring back Young Link and Pichu, the only veterans who got cut due to time constraints where Mewtwo, Roy and Dr. Mario.... :/

Anyway, here's a slightly better quality roster of the 3DS version if the OP likes to use it.

 

[Ginger Hail]

Pichu was a late clone addition from Melee there to promote Gen 2/Baby Pokemon with a gimmick that hampered it more than helped it. With no evidence it was in the works for Brawl (like Doc/Mewtwo/Roy), it's clear that Sakurai has no plans to bring it back.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

yea I think I got it

any thoughts?

(did I forget anyone?)

 

[Jumpman84]

I don't believe they had any intentions to bring back Young Link and Pichu, the only veterans who got cut due to time constraints where Mewtwo, Roy and Dr. Mario.... :/

While their data was not on the Brawl disc, it's very likely they were cut for time constraints early on in development or put on a lower priority than the Forbidden Seven.

Pichu was a late clone addition from Melee there to promote Gen 2/Baby Pokemon with a gimmick that hampered it more than helped it. With no evidence it was in the works for Brawl (like Doc/Mewtwo/Roy), it's clear that Sakurai has no plans to bring it back.

You have no way of knowing what Sakurai thinks. In fact, he has indicated that he wants to bring them back and put as many characters in as possible, but that they don't have the time to do so. DLC would be a workaround to this problem.

 

[WwwWario]

I never thought I'd this, but 50 sounds realistic. I've always thought it would be about maximum 45 or something. But after reading what all of you guys say, 50 sounds more believeable than anything else.

By the way, I keep seing people talking about a Sal leak. I know about the Gematsu leak with tje Chorus Men and all that, but have I missed something? Anybody can explain/link this Sal leak?

 

[Retroend]

yea I think I got it

any thoughts?

(did I forget anyone?)

i wish krystal could be there but it looks like she doesn't have much of a chance.

 

[SomewhatMystia]

I never thought I'd this, but 50 sounds realistic. I've always thought it would be about maximum 45 or something. But after reading what all of you guys say, 50 sounds more believeable than anything else.

By the way, I keep seing people talking about a Sal leak. I know about the Gematsu leak with tje Chorus Men and all that, but have I missed something? Anybody can explain/link this Sal leak?

I think the Sal leak is the Gematsu one, so if you're up to date on that, you should be good to go.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Actually, by my calculations, I estimate that we'll get 59 characters at the very maximum. Outrageous, you say? On the contrary, it's actually quite logical.

[collapse=My calculated method of roster size.]

The N64 version had two rows, and six columns, to make twelve characters.

Melee had three rows and nine columns, giving us a potential of 27 characters. We only got 26, though. (25, if you only go by character boxes.) Another thing to note is that the six clones added at the last minute gave us a bigger size. Had they not been added, we would have three rows and seven columns, with only 19 character boxes.

Brawl gave us four rows and nine columns, with the potential of 36 character slots. Though we got 35 character slots plus the random box to fill in the blanks, we got 39 thanks to transformations.

As for Smash 4, let's start off with the rosters we saw on the Wii U and 3DS demos.

Now, ignoring the strange layout of these demo rosters (Greninja before Pikachu? What were they smokin!), Some things become clear.

The Wii U's demo has three rows and eight columns while the 3DS's demo has four rows and six columns. Let's assume that the roster layouts will be the same in each version. By taking the highest values, we got four rows and eight columns to make 32.

First off, we need to combine our two rosters together.

Next, we'll fill in the blanks with characters confirmed for Smash 4.

So the roster's filled up, but poor Palutena and Pac-Man are out in the cold. The solution is simple: one more column and the roster size is equal to Brawl.

As you'll notice, we have two empty slots. Here's where we get into the speculation part of this. We'll start off by adding the two most obvious veterans.

Now comes the math part. Each Smash game since the original has added one extra row of characters. 2 to 3 to 4. Therefore, we can conclude that this Smash will have five rows, at most. With this in mind, we have nine more characters to add in, bringing us up to 44.

(Please note that all roster decisions reflect my views on characters and should be treated as such.)

Now with that done, let's look at columns. We had six in the original, which got bumped up to nine in Melee (originally meant to be seven), and stayed at nine in Brawl. This means that we can safely add another column to make 10. That gives us room for five more... Note that at this point, I'm filling the roster with Brawl vets.

That leaves one space left, so let's throw Mewtwo in. I'll also take some time to rearrange the roster alignment to make more sense.

49 characters so far, in line with most guesses. Keep in mind that we've only added one row. But it's logical that we could get two rows added, as well. So we'll add another row, giving us five more characters. Let's do some Melee vets, shall we?

So everyone from the Smash series is in this one, but there's room for one more. There is someone missing, so please excuse me while I get him in.

So now we're at 54 characters. Pretty impressive. But this is only with two rows added. History has shown that we can have added up to three rows per installment. So we can add a third row, to bring us to... 59 characters. See, math. Keep in mind that this is maxing out the pattern, but it wouldn't be out of the question. That gives us room for five newcomers. For those who believe Sal, three of those are Chrom, Shulk, and Chorus Men. Two spaces left... Ridley and K. Rool, anyone?

To me, a roster like this is not unreasonable. All vets from Brawl return, the Melee 5 return, and we get 15 newcomers (including Pokemon Trainer being revamped). Anything higher than this without DLC is pushing it. In general, a roster size between 49-59 is most likely.
[/collapse]

And that concludes my roster estimation. Please let me know your thoughts and comments or any questions you have.

My only problem with your math is that you have all the transformation characters as separate slots, which is inflating the number of columns/rows.

It's safe to assume that if Squirtle/Ivysaur are back they will be separates (stating Charizard as my example,) but ZSS and Shiek are still connected to Samus/Zelda. Also, unless they give him a whole new batch of 'Mon to use, it is doubtful Red will be back. That opens up three more slots on your examples. Krystal, Midna, and one more.

Other than that, I've no problems with this equation.

Typing on my phone, bare with any errors.

 

[Jumpman84]

My only problem with your math is that you have all the transformation characters as separate slots, which is inflating the number of columns/rows.

It's safe to assume that if Squirtle/Ivysaur are back they will be separates (stating Charizard as my example,) but ZSS and Shiek are still connected to Samus/Zelda. Also, unless they give him a whole new batch of 'Mon to use, it is doubtful Red will be back. That opens up three more slots on your examples. Krystal, Midna, and one more.

Other than that, I've no problems with this equation.

Typing on my phone, bare with any errors.

Sorry, but they're not. The Smash Direct not only showed Charizard, Sheik, and Zero Suit Samus, but right before, Sakurai himself confirmed that transformations were removed. He even showed Samus's Zero Laser not causing her armor to fall off, plus Zelda and Sheik having new Down+B moves. Not to mention they quite literally just showed up as separate slots in the demo during E3.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

Sorry, but they're not. The Smash Direct not only showed Charizard, Sheik, and Zero Suit Samus, but right before, Sakurai himself confirmed that transformations were removed. He even showed Samus's Zero Laser not causing her armor to fall off, plus Zelda and Sheik having new Down+B moves. Not to mention they quite literally just showed up as separate slots in the demo during E3.

My mistake then. I haven't watched E3 since they gutted it and don't really follow enough news to know everything. Plus, I'm at work on my phone, so I can't really surf around to research things at the moment.

I did just have a gloriously wonderful realization regarding Midna's viability thanks to Hyrule Warriors, but that's a different topic.

 

[MrPanic]

Hm, when I combine the current sal leak with the old trophy quiz theory the roster size comes in at 49 slots, which could create a nice 10x5 roster like this.

However, it was pretty much impossible for me to line out the franchises properly in this format, just look at that mess at the right side. I need to give it a bit more thought because Sakurai seems ocd enough to not let a roster like this happen.

 

[Mr. Mumbles]

Brawl's roster minus Ivysaur, Squirtle, Lucas, and Snake plus the 14 newcomers proposed by the Gematsu leak brings us to 49 so I think this sounds about right. I do think people should curb their expectations for DLC for this game. It seems likely at this point but I don't think they'll go completely nuts with it, maybe 4 at most but up to 6 if they're feeling super generous. I mentioned this in another thread but I think most of the DLC will be semiclones, given how everybody new added so far has been completely original. Melee had 6 clones and 1 semiclone and Brawl 6 semiclones so I feel this is strongly probable. This being said, I'd expect no more than 2 of the DLC characters to be completely original. Mewtwo is almost guaranteed to be one of them at this point because of what an easy cashgrab it would be as probably 80%+ of the people who buy this game would gladly pay for him. As far as semiclone candidates go, I'm thinking Dark Pit, Tetra, Lucina, Roy, Lucas (a lot of people are already upset at the mere prospect that he might be gone), and Dixie are definitely on the table.

Yeah I guess Pokemon Trainer makes your point for you huh? I suppose I just didn't want to accept that Mii is not one but three characters. Do you think this means RosalinaX was wrong, or that (s)he (I don't know said person's gender) counts characters incorrectly? Regardless, I change my vote to 50 then, based on the two other confirmed newcommers. But that means they showed us five new characters at E3. That is crazy!

 

[Inawordyes]

Thirteen slots per row? My calculations said we would get twelve at the very max. How did you calculate 13?

Given that Brawl's demo roster icons were larger than the final product, and the icons themselves shrank in the full game as you unlocked characters, the demo screen as it is now can hold about 12 per row, but the icons can easily shrink enough to add an extra column to the end, as well as (for the benefit of the 3DS roster in particular), shrink to accommodate another row, which would also inofitself accommodate an extra column or two, though I doubt we'd see any higher than 14-per-row at the max. 12 x 4 = 48 - 1 for random = 47 (which is where we currently are with all the currently revealed characters, the remaining three Gematsu newcomers, and all the Brawl vets minus Squirtle, Ivysaur, Lucas, and Snake), but add another column, and you get four more slots = 52 (51 with random in mind), which accommodates Mewtwo, and the hinted-towards Ridley, K. Rool, and Bandana Dee (Bandana Dee is the weakest of the four in terms of likeliness, though he has his hints towards play-ability as well; but I think that Sakurai thinks of any combination of Mega Man, Pac-Man and Little Mac as the "retro reps" of this game, as well as WFT and/or the Chorus Men as the "WTF/Oddball picks", so I do not see Takamaru, Lip, etc. as the most likely for the main roster, and Lucas as a veteran could take the spot as well but his inclusion is in question at the moment assuming you believe the Gematsu leak).

I didn't exactly "calculate" anything, but I'm assuming that the size of the current icons is not the final size and that it will shrink, especially if we get DLC fighters, and a shrinkage could provide for at least two more row and two more columns at the absolute most feasible maximum, which gives (including Random) 48 (4x12) + one column = 52 (4x13) + one row = 65 (5x13), with 65 + one column = 70 (5x14) + one row = 84 (6x14) - or 64 playable characters, a Random Slot, and then the possibility of another row and column adding 19 more on top of that - being the highest we could get without the icons being too small to be feasible based on the current CSS (and especially the size limitations of the 3DS).

Again, though, this implies that the icons will shrink to accommodate more characters; if they don't, then the maximum is 48 slots, or 47 playable characters, as the OP already calculated. I just personally don't ascribe to that as that means we know the entire roster already if we expect to see the remaining three Gematsu characters on top of the remaining Brawl vets (minus the aforementioned four), with no Mewtwo.

 

[Swift Fox]

Apparently it's going to be 47 slots.

Notice characters' names appear to be little bit blurry and I've resized to its supposedly 1:1 original size below.

There are 12 columns and 4 rows and one slot will be reserved for the random icon.

I suppose the 3DS one will have 8x6 (still same 47 slots) based on its layout.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I could see the 3DS screen having a scrolling roster as well since it looks pretty demoish but eh.

 

[Neoleo21]

I say 43 characters in total

 

[Swift Fox]

I say 43 characters in total

43? Come on, you can't be serious. XD

I'm looking forward to it though!

EDIT: Here's mine

See how many different possibilities are there?!

Will update when:
-Any character in red is actually revealed
-When the newer image of roster with several characters not seen in demo is available on the internet.
-Series order changed from demo

Roster table will break when:
-Yoshi, DK, AND Wario must stay on 1st row (3DS)
-More than 8 per row or more than 6 per column was seen (3DS)
-More than 12 per row was seen (Wii U)
-Too many non-leaked new-comers (unless we're gonna do cut-happy?!)

Notice there are two different directions for Pokemon series in both version? That means something... I image that Pikachu goes first or last depending is the pokemon series on right-most or left-most sides of the roster.

Mewtwo is definitely not returning unless you sacrifice any one in the arbitrary section (but you can't stop the leaked new-comers though!) or kill any one in red.

FYI if Pokemon series is actually on 4th row for 3DS version then Falco and Mewtwo is definitely getting cut.

 

[Swift Fox]

(Is it alright to double posting? Cuz I want to revive this thread & I don't have the authority to delete my last post & merge contents to here.)

I managed to snatch the same font style Smash Bros 4 is using (from http://www.font6.com/Font/softdown.asp?softid=2538 <- click on the first link you see in there. The font name I'm going to use is "DFGGothic-UB").

Look at how blurry are characters' names on the roster? That may give us hint of how much downsize needed to go back to their 1:1 native size. But how much?

I determined the size based on "GoBack (Hold)" as it appears 1:1 native, and the font size is 23. I downsized the entire roster by 64% horizontal & 75% vertical and NOW when I typed characters' names in red font & look how they matched so perfectly!

Then I aligned the rows of characters so they sit on the left side of the roster and I created one gray square on Mario to see if that square can replicate over the roster without misaligning on other characters. The gray squares each is 127x112 with one pixel grid. The 15th column just fits without overlapping!

60 slots if the font style (DFGGothic-UB @ 23px) has anything for it.

Otherwise, 48 slots (aspect ratio unchanged).

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

If you believe the Gematsu leak, you have to accept that the roster is going above 47 characters at some point. If you don't believe the Gematsu leak, it's pretty silly to think that Sakurai would allow UI limitations to restrict the amount of total playable characters. Either way, you have to accept that this roster layout can be changed to suit the demands of the developers.

Why does belief in the Gematsu leak demand an acceptance of a number higher than 47? I can make an argument that Gematsu supports 47 + Random easily. Check this out.

11 Brawl Veterans MIA(Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Lucas gone)
3 Remaining Gematsu(Chrom, Shulk, Chorus Men/Kids)
33 Confirmed Characters
===
47 Total Characters.

 

[Maxoxpower]

Why does belief in the Gematsu leak demand an acceptance of a number higher than 47? I can make an argument that Gematsu supports 47 + Random easily. Check this out.

11 Brawl Veterans MIA(Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Lucas gone)
3 Remaining Gematsu(Chrom, Shulk, Chorus Men/Kids)
33 Confirmed Characters
===
47 Total Characters.

hate the 47 rosters gemastu thing... NO KING K.ROOL? no love!

47 characters + king k.rool = total win

 

[Super Flygon]

Wow, you guys are really amazing! Now I'm convinced we will have 47 characters It just fits so perfectly and has very little cuts.

By the way, wasn't there a leak called the RosalinaX Leak or something like that? Didn't it say 48 characters and 4 cuts? Maybe they meant 48 slots (47 characters & Random), with Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur & Lucas being cut. Is that leak still alive?

 

[Dracometeor]

I respectfully disagree. It would show that Sakurai cares about the fans (remember his statement about how each character has its fans and cutting those characters would disappoint them). 59 characters gives us a healthy amount of newcomers and brings those characters back (who shouldn't have been cut in the first place, lousy time restrictions). Besides, who's to say that they wouldn't be decloned (or at least made semiclones)? Also, Young Link shouldn't definitely get in over Ghirahim as he's a Smash vet and is more important to the series.

Except the majority of vets that have been cut are clones. Clones that are easily replaced with custom movesets. Mewtwo is the only vet I can see coming back since he has a unique moveset.

In my opinion if we got those clones over newcomers that are unique? I'd be pissed. That would just be lazy.

 

[American JEDI]

Hey guys,

So far we have 33 characters confirmed for Smash 4. Sakurai is going to have 50 playable characters for the latest installment of his beloved series. I assure you, THIS LIST is dead on.

The original 12 from SSB1 will be in the game. So we're still getting... CAPTAIN FALCON, NESS, and JIGGLY PUFF. (3 more)

These next guys premiered in Melee and have become staples to the series. FALCO, GANONDORF, GAME & WATCH, and ICE CLIMBERS. (4 more)

Also, we'll get META KNIGHT and WARIO. The two most obvious picks from Brawl. (2 more)

We'll also get WOLF, but they reworked his moves a bit more to separate him from Fox and Falco. MEW TWO is in guys! This is to please the fans, and because he's way more relevant now in the Pokemon universe. (2 more)

These next three are Nintendo-owned newcomers: CHROM, SHULK, and the CHORUS MEN. Check the info on these guys out. They're gonna be wonderful additions. (3 more)

The following two are third-party. The first of them is none other than SNAKE. He's coming back everyone! And this last one is not only a third-party but also a new comer... *drum roll*... RAYMAN! Yep, Sakurai put him in. That's five third-party reps in total: Making up 10% of the roster. (2 more)

The last one... RIDLEY. Deal with it. He's in guys. Sakurai loves the fans. (1 more)

Well, there it is. That's the confirmed 33 plus the 17 = Total of 50. If they're not on THIS LIST, they're not playable. That's a FACT! Yes, R.O.B. is cut. Sorry...
Absolutely "EVERYONE" on this list will be on the Super Smash Bros 4 roster.

P.S. ---- Dark Pitt is an alternate costume for Pitt. Lucas, Dr. Mario, and Roy are alternates for Ness, Mario and Marth. No Pichu or Young Link or the remaining forbidden seven unfortunately (cuz I really wanted Dixie Kong). No King K Rool either... sadness.

Who am I? The American JEDI.
SSB for LIFE!!!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Ray-Man is not legendary enough to fit into a special circumstance as far as third-parties go.

 

[Jumpman84]

Except the majority of vets that have been cut are clones. Clones that are easily replaced with custom movesets. Mewtwo is the only vet I can see coming back since he has a unique moveset.

In my opinion if we got those clones over newcomers that are unique? I'd be pissed. That would just be lazy.

They can't be "replaced", but they can be declined a bit.

And it would not be lazy at all. That's like saying it's lazy for Mario and Link to be in every single game. In fact, bringing characters back that weren't in Brawl would be harder work for the team, the complete opposite of lazy.

Just because you'd be pissed doesn't mean they shouldn't try to please the rest of us. I would be absolutely thrilled to see them return and I'm not the only one.

 

[Loungemen]

Apparently it's going to be 47 slots.

Notice characters' names appear to be little bit blurry and I've resized to its supposedly 1:1 original size below.

There are 12 columns and 4 rows and one slot will be reserved for the random icon.

I suppose the 3DS one will have 8x6 (still same 47 slots) based on its layout.

This makes sense, because I can see this being the final roster:

Now before you say anything, yes, I believe the Gematsu leak is real, and yes, I still want Lucas in.

Also, here's something I didn't realize until now

Apparently this CSS is has 6 columns and 4 rows, meaning that the first screen will fill up to 24 slots.
You can go to the second part of the CSS that has another 24 slots. Think of it not as scrolling, but more like page-turning.

So that's my theory of why we're gonna get 47 characters.

 

[Dracometeor]

They can't be "replaced", but they can be declined a bit.

And it would not be lazy at all. That's like saying it's lazy for Mario and Link to be in every single game. In fact, bringing characters back that weren't in Brawl would be harder work for the team, the complete opposite of lazy.

Just because you'd be pissed doesn't mean they shouldn't try to please the rest of us. I would be absolutely thrilled to see them return and I'm not the only one.

Except Link and Mario are unique movesets.

Let me clarify, it's lazy to leave in these clone characters and waste character slots without making the characters unique. Because of customizable moveset so I can't see any of the clones being able to keep their old clonesets without being entirely redundant. Fox and falco have almost identical moves that could easily be custom move slots for Fox.

Yes I understand you may really like some of the clone characters, but it adds nothing to gameplay and sakurai has already started the clone war. If they get unique move sets then great! Otherwise I can see alt costumes in the future.

 

[Hong]

Roster discussion from this thread can resume here. Enjoy!

Edit - Incidentally, I've moved it to Character Discussion.

 

[NintenRob]

Damn it, made another one without knowing of this.

What I think the roster is (Would appreciate it if someone did a mock-up for me)

And reasons why I think this is it is because http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/631516-wii-u/69464105

I think 51 because I find Ridley incredibly likely with the discovery of his size and I think all Rpg characters will be on one row on the Wii U roster, And I also think Wolf or Falco isn't getting cut.