• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

CalumG

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
1,062
Eh, I think it's less about not being perfect with representation and more that Sakurai just hasn't shown a good grasp of the Metroid series outside of Samus herself. I mean it's odd that it took until BRAWL for Samus to have actual Super Missiles. I found it quite annoying that Melee Samus clearly had a "Super" Missile attack but looked the same as a regular Missile.

But yeah, I honestly think Sakurai's grasp of the Metroid series is rather subpar compared to most other series. It's primarily shown in the stages. He's gotten the rising acid and lava thing right, but why does EVERY stage have to have some crazy stage-wide gimmick? Heck, we only got ONE stage that isn't reminiscent of NES Metroid, and the darn stage literally flips on itself in a way that doesn't even make sense in the context of the stage theme!

I kind of digressed, but all I'm saying is that I'm honestly not surprised Ridley behaves like Dyna Blade instead of borrowing attacks from his actual boss encounters. It's RIDICULOUS however that Ridley doesn't shoot a single fireball (obvious ignoring Meta-Ridley), yet Dyna Blade DOES!
In fairness, I know this isn't necessarily the right topic to discuss it in but Metroid certainly isn't the only franchise to get some pretty shoddy representation in Smash (potentially owing to Sakurai's lack of knowledge)... you don't need to look far to find a Wario fan quietly sobbing in the corner at the complete lack of Wario Land acknowledgement and the fact he's got the bike as a side-B instead of the shoulder-barge. Pokemon is pretty guilty of it too - Pokemon Stadium, Pokemon Stadium II and Poke-Floats were pretty much Sakurai's way of saying "I want to include Pokemon stages but I don't want to do any research into the actual game locations" and the only thing that makes Saffron seem like Saffron is the fact that it has "Silph" written down the side of the main building.
 

ChozoBoy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
194
Location
Cinnaminson, NJ
I simply responded to the first thing I noticed about your post, that's all. I didn't purposely gloss over anything. As far as I can tell, you're saying that the outcome of all this hinges upon whether Sakurai and Sakamoto veto the idea of a smaller Ridley. I don't think they will, you think they will, neither really has any bearing on anything. What did I gloss over?
That, plus the fact that Tween Ridley wouldn't be a likely first option to test.

Edit: Sakurai OR Sakamoto. Not "and." Sakurai can kill it at the source and Sakamoto can veto any divergent depiction.
 

Anomilus

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
1,221
Location
The space between genius and madness
NNID
Hyperdon
In fairness, I know this isn't necessarily the right topic to discuss it in but Metroid certainly isn't the only franchise to get some pretty shoddy representation in Smash (potentially owing to Sakurai's lack of knowledge)... you don't need to look far to find a Wario fan quietly sobbing in the corner at the complete lack of Wario Land acknowledgement and the fact he's got the bike as a side-B instead of the shoulder-barge. Pokemon is pretty guilty of it too - Pokemon Stadium, Pokemon Stadium II and Poke-Floats were pretty much Sakurai's way of saying "I want to include Pokemon stages but I don't want to do any research into the actual game locations" and the only thing that makes Saffron seem like Saffron is the fact that it has "Silph" written down the side of the main building.

Oh I agree. I mean Fire Emblem didn't even get a stage until Brawl, and Castle Siege apparently isn't based on anything from FE. Wario Land has hardly been represented, but at least the Wario Ware stage is a pretty darn good representation. I can't say how accurate Earthbound stages are. Pokemon has been okay with stage representation, but I think Spear Pillar does a decent job. With all of these mentioned, Wario is the only one that has a platformer game to represent. The others are a strategy game and two RPGs. Meanwhile, Brawl is Wario's only game so far.

Metroid has been represented since the beginning, and it's one of the easier games to adapt to Smash. So it just feels extra-silly that we've yet to get a stage that truly feels like Metroid. So far it's all felt like Smash with a Metroid theme.

EDIT - Well, to be consistent, they've felt somewhat like NES Metroids. But that's inexcusable when Prime 2 came out in 2004 and we got FLIPPIN' Frigate Orpheon in Brawl. And I mean "flippin'" in the literal sense!
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Hardware limitations.
If it applies to the original Metroid for NES, it applies here, too.

Spin-off. From a 3rd Party company.
And not only that, but sprite-based RPGs typically have "chibi-style" for the characters to make them all fit together.
Going by this example, Princess Peach is a damned ******.

This is literally artwork of the two characters outside any context. For all I know, you could have Photoshopped Bowser to be small.

Going by the previous image, I'd say that this confirms that the size difference in that image is false unless Peach is a ****** again and is Mario's exact height.
Then again, Paper Mario uses different proportions, anyway. That's like using Wind Waker as size reference for the Zelda series despite the tiny legs and big heads.

Spin-off. Again, those are known for shrinking bigger characters just to make them "fit".
This one seems to be the worst offender if Mario and Bowser are practically the same height. If anything, this "destroyed" Bowser like you claim being sized down would do to Ridley.

Not to scale.

Look at that, you use non-canon appearance in Brawl as an example, and yet ignore the non-canon Melee appearance.
That's just about as idiotic as using Bowser's appearance in Brawl as "proof" he isn't too big.
That isn't too big in the slightest, and is quite small compared to your previous "example".
And no, hardware limitations won't fly here. Not since the same game includes Kaiju-sized Kraid and the Brainasaurus Rex body for Mother Brain, both of which tower over this incarnation of Ridley.
First a non-canon appearance within Smash itself, and now you're using fanart as "proof"? I'm really questioning whether you have a mental handicap at this point.

a. Not Ridley. That's an X-Parasite taking his form from mimicking the Ridley clone's dead tissue.
b. X-Parasites are known to mutate and alter the form of whatever they mimic.
c. This is the real size comparison between an actual Ridley and Samus in Fusion:

It may be a dead body, but it's actual size.
So pretty much the usual size difference between Mario and Bowser?


I think this last one drives the point home.
Home must be pretty far away.

"I think this last one drives the point home."


Anime =/= canon. The devs completely ignore the anime (with the only exception being Pokemon voices) Charizard's size was established all throughout Smash until his inclusion.
Completely ignore the anime, huh?

So:

-Mewtwo and Lucario didn't flat out talk (only in Japanese for Mewtwo), something only the anime has given them (and specifically only one Lucario)?
-The above didn't have their characterization taken from the anime (i.e. Mewtwo's personality taken from Movie 1 Mewtwo and Lucario's taken from Movie 8 Lucario)?
-Mewtwo doesn't use Shadow Ball because of the movie?
-Mewtwo isn't always floating because that's how it moved in the movie?
-Pichu doesn't hurt itself when using electricity because of what the Pikachu and Pichu short established?
-Meowth's trophy in Melee isn't Team Rocket's talking Meowth?
-Misty's and Prof. Oak's trophies in Melee don't use their anime designs rather than the ones from the actual games?
-Goldeen's purpose of a gag Poké Ball summon isn't a reference to the 2nd episode of the anime? (If it wasn't, Magikarp would have been the gag.)
-Sakurai was lying when he said he looks to the anime and the movies for ideas?


And aside from that, Pikachu's CANON size is 1 ft 4 in., while Charizard's CANON size is 5 ft 7 in.
Even if you disregard the anime, that's still a major size difference that isn't anywhere close to the difference in Brawl.

Here is what they are supposed to be to each other.

So, if Pokémon characters are supposed to be measured up to how they compare to Pikachu, the original Pokémon character for Smash, then Charizard is too ****ing big to be viable.
And yet Charizard was made smaller than it should be.

You're just digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Yeah, let's wait until I'm away from the computer to start another big debate! >=(


Yeah... REALLY drive that point home!

I plan on dubbing Other M Ridley as Monkey Ridley. After previous watching a youtube video of every Ridley battle, I didn't realize until now just how NOT HUGE Other M Ridley actually was. He's actually almost smaller than Super Metroid Ridley. And this isn't some trick of perspective, 'cause Samus is literally standing directly in front of his HUGE LANKY ARM. Really, it's those monkey arms and hands that make Ridley seem like a giant in pictures where he's holding Samus.
BTW, this isn't to counter the whole of your post Lange. Just noting that one image and comparing it to what I saw in the video.


As for this picture...





I saw this one a few weeks back and thought it was a GREAT image that showed Ridley being awesome and NOT looking HUGE like some of his games like to do. You have to realize I'm an opponent of the idea that Ridley's size is a vital trait to his character. He never uses his size that well in his games. He puts his signature on battles with his ferocity and relentless barrages of attacks and just being a threatening NOT final boss.

What I also like about this pic is that if it was scaled down just a taaad more, this would be a great size for playable status. It's similar to........?? OH YEAH. Similar to this:



I know people aren't exactly thrilled with Ridley doing a lot of his fighting on all fours, but at the current time there's going to be a conflict of interests one way or another. I still think this would please the widest audience. As I mentioned before, this scene mock-up is only Ridley on the ground, and he'd look very much like the fan art above while taking to the air. (I also said my rendition of Ridley was scaled up just a tad, so I could even go smaller if it helps some people).

...And the prospect is certainly not alien...


One of the smartest posts today.
I completely forgot about Ridley's gangly arms in Other M.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I'd like to point out that Mr. Lange's posts have basically consisted of saying" You keep ignoring my posts" even though everyone keeps quoting him. Also, Mr. Lange only responds with "Look at my previous posts". Nobody is going to dig back pages upon pages for an argument that has been beaten to death.

You can't convince someone with an opinion. So let's please move on to a new subject...
At this point, it'd be best to give him the Noah treatment.
He's just as illogical as him.

EDIT: Especially if he's now arguing that Mewtwo's light weight in Melee suited him DESPITE CANON WEIGHT.
So yeah, hypocritical, full of himself, and can't make good points worth a damn.
And he would know that if he "read all my damn posts".

So yeah, no sense in discussing with him, best set him on Ignore.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,582
Location
Buffalo, New York
NNID
ScoliosisxJones
3DS FC
1762-3194-1826
At this point, it'd be best to give him the Noah treatment.
He's just as illogical as him.
He may have left the thread already. Mr. Lange also agreed to stop the argument for now.

In the mean time, I think it could be a good idea for us RIdley supporters to formulate our own arguments against Ridley. It's always better to be able to argue both sides of the debate in question.

However I can't really come up with anything that is truly convincing. Nothing but what previous users have brought up :laugh:
 

SmashBro99

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,199
Location
CT.
3DS FC
4957-2747-2945
He will make an excellent assist trophy, trophy and sticker (a big one that takes up the whole stand if they do it like that again) :3
 

Starcutter

Resident Beedrill
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
7,221
Location
Viridian Forest
NNID
Legendofrob1
3DS FC
1908-0357-9077
maybe ridley can't get in because he doesn't fit the happy style of ssb4. I think that's also why they changed their design for samus.



that's all i got for a new argument. pathetic, eh?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I know one; lack of popularity within Japan.

While it has it's counters, such as his popularity everywhere else, we don't know whether or not that popularity will help.
Especially since Sakurai has said before that adding just popular characters doesn't excite him.
If Sakurai can't find any gameplay reason to include him as a character, all the popularity in the world will not help him.

....but he likely would.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,582
Location
Buffalo, New York
NNID
ScoliosisxJones
3DS FC
1762-3194-1826
I think what my biggest gripe is, is that a lot of people against Ridley (or like Ridley but don't want him playable) is that most of their arguments are based purely on opinion. There's nothing wrong with having an opinion, but when it's being forced as fact (seemingly or obviously) it gets annoying and causes problems.
 

Mr Lange

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
193
Golden.
I could refute every single thing you said here since I left.
Too tired, too busy now.
At least I didn't use a bunch of insults and exaggerated criticisms like you did, which is what you need as filler for your equally flimsy if not flimsier arguments. When you cut all the bull**** out of your posts then your arguments are like goddamn mental dishwater. I don't know why I bothered to humor anything you said, if only to shoot down the scraps of gibberish dribbling out of your posts that might start fraying our otherwise good debate. Everyone has given great arguments but you. You've mostly just been an asshole this entire time, weaving it throughout your greatly inflated replies of worn out, repeatedly addressed, shallow as **** points.
So, it's over bro.
I'll let you get back to the circle jerk now like you so desperately want.
 

_R@bid_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
462
Location
Inside Your Head
wait, isn't the fact that we like ridley SOOOOOO much here in not-japan that we are basically famous for it? i read that on the internet somewhere.
Yeah, Ridley and Little Mac are the two characters most well known for having mostly western support. The character(s) Sakurai chooses for Western fans will include at least one of these two.
 

Starcutter

Resident Beedrill
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
7,221
Location
Viridian Forest
NNID
Legendofrob1
3DS FC
1908-0357-9077
Yeah, Ridley and Little Mac are the two characters most well known for having mostly western support. The character(s) Sakurai chooses for Western fans will include at least one of these two.
well, it looks like lil mac is going to be included, so hopefully it's both.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
38,105
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
Golden.
I could refute every single thing you said here since I left.
Too tired, too busy now.
At least I didn't use a bunch of insults and exaggerated criticisms like you did, which is what you need as filler for your equally flimsy if not flimsier arguments. When you cut all the bull**** out of your posts then your arguments are like goddamn mental dishwater. I don't know why I bothered to humor anything you said, if only to shoot down the scraps of gibberish dribbling out of your posts that might start fraying our otherwise good debate. Everyone has given great arguments but you. You've mostly just been an ******* this entire time, weaving it throughout your greatly inflated replies of worn out, repeatedly addressed, shallow as **** points.
So, it's over bro.
I'll let you get back to the circle jerk now like you so desperately want.
Couple things.

That's a convenient cop out.

You just said that most people didn't even read your posts, less than a page from now and now you're complimenting everyone?

I think you're just bitter at that point. Golden stomped your rebuttal to the ground. Yes, he can be a bit of a **** at times, but you can't deny his claims.
 

Mr Lange

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
193
Couple things.

That's a convenient cop out.

You just said that most people didn't even read your posts, less than a page from now and now you're complimenting everyone?

I think you're just bitter at that point. Golden stomped your rebuttal to the ground. Yes, he can be a bit of a **** at times, but you can't deny his claims.
That last post regarding my image examples was utter ****. Everything he said in that post I had already covered. He's also wrong about several things. For example, the fan art was to scale, and sat next to the original image. He shot it down simply because it was fan art, and nothing more. That's a ****ty argument.
There were many occasions of my posts getting ignored but everyone had great arguments. It's not that Golden being an asshole invalidates his points, its that he had lousy points to begin with and brought up the slack by telling me I had absolutely zero logic or valid evidence, which is not at all true.
Every post he's made has been a series of fallacies and points I had already thoroughly responded to, laced with insults.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,582
Location
Buffalo, New York
NNID
ScoliosisxJones
3DS FC
1762-3194-1826
That last post regarding my image examples was utter ****. Everything he said in that post I had already covered. He's also wrong about several things. For example, the fan art was to scale, and sat next to the original image. He shot it down simply because it was fan art, and nothing more. That's a ****ty argument.
There were many occasions of my posts getting ignored but everyone had great arguments. It's not that Golden being an ******* invalidates his points, its that he had lousy points to begin with and brought up the slack by telling me I had absolutely zero logic or valid evidence, which is not at all true.
Every post he's made has been a series of fallacies and points I had already thoroughly responded to. He has done this repeatedly.
For the record, I wouldn't recommend using Fanart. It isn't official, so it's worthless in arguments imo.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
There ain't a bigger ass here than me, I tell ya what. (Dat's right, I'm bigger than Ridley.)

Though I reserve the notion of being one only to when it is necessary. (And even then, there might be some debate on when it is or not depending on who you ask. :troll:)
 

Mr Lange

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
193
For the record, I wouldn't recommend using Fanart. It isn't official, so it's worthless in arguments imo.
It was a convenient image and it was to scale (it was a redrawn version of the sprite work in higher resolution, not free-form artwork). The original version was included in the same image anyway. That makes it plenty valid.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,582
Location
Buffalo, New York
NNID
ScoliosisxJones
3DS FC
1762-3194-1826
It was a convenient image and it was to scale. The original version was included in the same image anyway. That makes it plenty valid.
It doesn't make it valid because it isn't an in game image. The image that it is comparable to is. But literally anyone could have made that fanart. I could have made that. It isn't a real image from a real iteration of the Metroid franchise, which is what Sakurai is going to use in his decision making. Not fanart.
 

Mr Lange

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
193
It doesn't make it valid because it isn't an in game image. The image that it is comparable to is. But literally anyone could have made that fanart. I could have made that. It isn't a real image from a real iteration of the Metroid franchise, which is what Sakurai is going to use in his decision making. Not fanart.
I wouldn't have used it if it weren't accurate to the original, nor if that comparison pic weren't included. It was valid.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
38,105
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
That last post regarding my image examples was utter ****. Everything he said in that post I had already covered. He's also wrong about several things. For example, the fan art was to scale, and sat next to the original image. He shot it down simply because it was fan art, and nothing more. That's a ****ty argument.
There were many occasions of my posts getting ignored but everyone had great arguments. It's not that Golden being an ******* invalidates his points, its that he had lousy points to begin with and brought up the slack by telling me I had absolutely zero logic or valid evidence, which is not at all true.
Every post he's made has been a series of fallacies and points I had already thoroughly responded to, laced with insults.
1.When did you cover those arguments exactly? I haven't seen it.
2. Wrong about what exactly? You only mention the fanart.
3. That fanart wasn't to scale actually.
4 .His points were amazing. I suggest you go into detail on why you think his points were bad or no one could take you seriously.
5. Insults are his thing. He's better than Habanero. If he got on your case, you'd have no chance.
6. You've been complaining people hadn't read your posts. He went into your post bit by bit. Now you got it. It's the internet. Buck up lad.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,582
Location
Buffalo, New York
NNID
ScoliosisxJones
3DS FC
1762-3194-1826
I wouldn't have used it if it weren't accurate to the original, nor if that comparison pic weren't included. It was valid.
What is it valid for though? That some random person on the internet can generate an unofficial image. I believe you are missing my point.

It's valid for a comparison. But the comparison doesn't really mean anything because the fanart itself is not an official image, and therefore would have no effect on what happens in Smash. It isn't valid to anything pertaining to Ridley in Smash Bros.
 

Starcutter

Resident Beedrill
Joined
Dec 13, 2012
Messages
7,221
Location
Viridian Forest
NNID
Legendofrob1
3DS FC
1908-0357-9077
tbh, the fanart was the only response that I thought was bull. everything else was secure and well written though. especially that pokemon bit.
 

Scoliosis Jones

Kept you waiting, huh?
Writing Team
Joined
Aug 7, 2012
Messages
9,582
Location
Buffalo, New York
NNID
ScoliosisxJones
3DS FC
1762-3194-1826
Arguments against Ridley:

Really Big
Insanely Big
Damn! Look at that Big arse motherfudger!
Large
Enormous
You crazy man. Ridley huge!

:troll: See what I did there?
 

Reznor

work in progress
Joined
Nov 24, 2008
Messages
1,821
how would you guys feel if we got Meta Ridley instead of regular Ridley
ya they are pretty much the same thing but just want to change the topic from "too big"
 

Mr Lange

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
193
1.When did you cover those arguments exactly? I haven't seen it.
2. Wrong about what exactly? You only mention the fanart.
3. That fanart wasn't to scale actually.
4 .His points were amazing. I suggest you go into detail on why you think his points were bad or no one could take you seriously.
5. Insults are his thing. He's better than Habanero. If he got on your case, you'd have no chance.
6. You've been complaining people hadn't read your posts. He went into your post bit by bit. Now you got it. It's the internet. Buck up lad.
I can't cover his entire post. I don't have time anymore. It'd take a lot of writing.
His points were lousy. I swear half the time (or all the time probably) he's trolling. He has repeatedly rehashed things I've covered in detail, yet exaggerates them further like some kind of joke. He did go into my post bit by bit. With shallow points that, as I said, I've covered more than once.
I'll take apart two things he said though.

So pretty much the usual size difference between Mario and Bowser?
Usual, meaning when Bowser is seen as large, which as I've pointed out is when he's hoarding power or using magic. Otherwise he's smaller than that comparison. Unlike Ridley, Bowser's size variates wildly, and there's even plot excuses for this.

"I think this last one drives the point home."
Once again, in this image, Bowser is using power stars to greatly increase his size. This is not his normal size.
 

Swamp Sensei

Today is always the most enjoyable day!
BRoomer
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
38,105
Location
Um....Lost?
NNID
Swampasaur
3DS FC
4141-2776-0914
Switch FC
SW-6476-1588-8392
I can't cover his entire post. I don't have time anymore. It'd take a lot of writing.
His points were lousy. I swear half the time (or all the time probably) he's trolling. He has repeatedly rehashed things I've covered in detail, yet exaggerates them further like some kind of joke. He did go into my post bit by bit. With shallow points that, as I said, I've covered more than once.
I'll take apart two things he said though.

Usual, meaning when Bowser is seen as large, which as I've pointed out is when he's hoarding power or using magic. Otherwise he's smaller than that comparison. Unlike Ridley, Bowser's size variates wildly, and there's even plot excuses for this.

Once again, in this image, Bowser is using power stars to greatly increase his size. This is not his normal size.
1.They weren't shallow.
2. He's not trolling. At all.

Bowser did not use magic in Galaxy.

Even then, in Galaxy 2, when he's had the power of the Grand Stars beaten out of him, he's still big enough to swallow a Grand Star, which is much bigger than Mario. He is exactly the same size as in Galaxy one as when he swallows the Grand Star.
Try around 11:00 minutes to see his normal size.

Furthermore, in the ending of Galaxy, after Rosalina gets her power stars back, he's still freaking huge.


He doesn't use magic in that game, and he COULDN'T of had the power of the stars at that point. Rosalina had them back. Bowser had none.

Try again.
 
Top Bottom