The reason why CF vs Snake FEELS easier than usual

[F5Hazardousdoc]

From my research, and personal experience being a snake main, I've realized that Snake does better against CF than MK does. Its just that... Most snake mains like to go CQC against Falcon because its too much fun.

I just played a VERY nooby snake main *1 week old, I 3 stocked him with IKE for the love of God*, and he beat my falcon, all he did the entire match was shield drop nades and ftilt me away when I got close. This matchup is ALOT harder than I had imagined previously :S

Screw shnair, Ftilt
Screw Dair, utilt
Screw dash attack, ftilt
Screw falcon kick, I CAN GRAB YOU OUT OF IT
And raptor boost... Uhh don't even consider it.

Gawd this matchup is so hard XD

 

[Lareit]

Snake's tilt game maws through all of falcon's approach

And falcon has one of the few grabs....that breaks the nade on the grab itself......


Camp snake. Snake's love their explosions. They'll use c4, mines, grenades, nikita, mortar slides. As falcon you can avoid all of that very easily and Jab/falconkick beats mortar slide. He'll eventually damage himself here or there or get frustrated all his explosions aren't doing anyting and come out to play.


Just camp him. Force the approach. Then fight a slightly less uphill battle then trying to approach him.

 

[The Real Inferno]

I run in with preperations to powershield that tilt and hopefully get a jab. I don't want to get ***** without hitting him once haha.

 

[Zeallyx]

What works for me, is throwing his grenades back at him

 

[The Real Inferno]

Good snake's strip it from you or cook them to prevent that

 

[Lareit]

Good snake's strip it from you or cook them to prevent that

Good snake's don't use reliable grenade patterns.

From blind tossing, to striping, to just lofting them in the air.

(Sorry, as a former snake main it's a peeve of mine to assume a good snake always cook's his nade, you just leave yourself too open if you do that)

But yes I agree that tossing his nades back at him will work far less then you'd like

 

[Zeallyx]

Good snake's don't use reliable grenade patterns.

From blind tossing, to striping, to just lofting them in the air.

(Sorry, as a former snake main it's a peeve of mine to assume a good snake always cook's his nade, you just leave yourself too open if you do that)

But yes I agree that tossing his nades back at him will work far less then you'd like

but if it works once its enough right

 

[Tenki]

It's a little risky and requires a bit of prediction, but if he's timing the U-tilts to hit you when you're above, jump over him and just before you get into U-tilt range, use Falcon Kick. The stall is enough to make the U-tilt miss and the fall is fast enough to punish. If not, you should probably learn how to feint with double jump approaches (example: jump at him from the front, fastfall, double jump again before you get in range, fastfall an aerial behind him or something) or just airdodge so you land behind him.

If you're approaching from the front, you can try a dash, then turn-around just as you enter his 2nd-f-tilt's range. It might send him off-guard, then do a (optional: extended) stutterstepped F-smash from that. I'm not sure how effective it is with Falcon, but it works as Sonic lol.

>_>

<_<

need to work on your baiting and punishing lol.

 

[OmegaXF]

If you taunt in Snakes face then you throw a dose of manliness at him. Free stock!


Walking is godly in this match. And grabbing is your Mother, Father, Sister, Brother put together.
Once you juggle him in the air with UAirs and what nots you got damage covered the only hard thing to do is get a KO on him. GL with that.

 

[Hiza]

I find camping him near edges and setting up gimps easiest. As originally stated, Snake mains usually **** out DACs and explosives, but I actually found that reverse aerial rushing with a Bair is nice, the only problem I have is that once you **** that out, it is weak and has no use as it is intended. No hitbox gimps .

Also, Dthrowing snake repeatedly seems useful for a bit. You can grab Mr. Pliskin's Ftilt if you time it right. Exploring Cypher gimps later today.

 

[Ayaz18]

no way, MK is a lot harder, as soon as Snake has to recover he's pretty much dead

recovering high? Knee him in the face

Recovering medium? Falcon punch him in his face

Recovering low? grab his sypher then taunt in his face

nades? get in his face, he can't cook them then

Tilts? SHAD right past him, then elbow smash him in the face

Aeirals? SDI out of them then elbow smash him in the face

Motar Sliding? spot dodge then hyphen Upsmash in the face


for MK however:

Tornado? run or be brave and Falcon Kick

Shuttle Loop? Run..........very fast

Dsmash? accept your death

Dtilt? Accept your going to trip

Dair? expect a gimp


Once you play many Snakes and MK with Falcon countless times, you'll realise the difference

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Snake's tilt game maws through all of falcon's approach

And falcon has one of the few grabs....that breaks the nade on the grab itself......


Camp snake. Snake's love their explosions. They'll use c4, mines, grenades, nikita, mortar slides. As falcon you can avoid all of that very easily and Jab/falconkick beats mortar slide. He'll eventually damage himself here or there or get frustrated all his explosions aren't doing anyting and come out to play.


Just camp him. Force the approach. Then fight a slightly less uphill battle then trying to approach him.

Camp... snake? If I see a Falcon camping me, I'll laugh and toss nades at him till he comes to me. Patience is a requirement for good snake players, and they WILL wait forever, especially since they're heavier than you and can take a botched nade or two. Area control is my main priority, and I'll drop down C4's in between us as well. I rarely ever hurt myself with nades unless I'm going for a kamikaze run with a nade.

no way, MK is a lot harder, as soon as Snake has to recover he's pretty much dead

recovering high? Knee him in the face
You won't reach. Thats why snakes recover high.

Recovering medium? Falcon punch him in his face
This would be the time to knee or nipple spike. Btw, snakes can use Fair to recover...

Recovering low? grab his cypher then taunt in his face
Good snakes try not to recover low, and we can always C4 recovery.

nades? get in his face, he can't cook them then
So then I can just shield drop them and use them as psuedo counters. I don't cook nades often anyways...

Tilts? SHAD right past him, then elbow smash him in the face
This is an ok idea, but keep in mind that snake doesn't have to use the second hit on ftilt, he can simply prone and then grab you on your landing lag.

Aeirals? SDI out of them then elbow smash him in the face
I lol whenever somebody tries to SDI out of nair. Good snakes don't use aerials... too much. I don't think you can SDI fast enough out of a dair string though, plus, snake could just predict and air control it in the same direction.

Motar Sliding? spot dodge then hyphen Upsmash in the face
And then get mortared. :| and on your way up you get baired.


for MK however:

Tornado? run or be brave and Falcon Kick

Shuttle Loop? Run..........very fast
Naw, just don't get hit and grab him if he's trying to cancel the lag on landing.

Dsmash? accept your death
Gawd dsmash > : ( SH fastfall nair works well.. sometimes.

Dtilt? Accept your going to trip
Jump here. If you get tripped.. well try to get out of being grabbed :S

Dair? expect a gimp
Doesn't this apply to EVERYONE?

Once you play many Snakes and MK with Falcon countless times, you'll realise the difference

 

[Zeallyx]

no way, MK is a lot harder, as soon as Snake has to recover he's pretty much dead

recovering high? Knee him in the face

Recovering medium? Falcon punch him in his face

Recovering low? grab his sypher then taunt in his face

nades? get in his face, he can't cook them then

Tilts? SHAD right past him, then elbow smash him in the face

Aeirals? SDI out of them then elbow smash him in the face

Motar Sliding? spot dodge then hyphen Upsmash in the face


for MK however:

Tornado? run or be brave and Falcon Kick

Shuttle Loop? Run..........very fast

Dsmash? accept your death

Dtilt? Accept your going to trip

Dair? expect a gimp


Once you play many Snakes and MK with Falcon countless times, you'll realise the difference

I agree with this
snake is a hard matchup, thats for sure
but meta knight is darn near impossible >.<

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Good snake's don't use reliable grenade patterns.

From blind tossing, to striping, to just lofting them in the air.

(Sorry, as a former snake main it's a peeve of mine to assume a good snake always cook's his nade, you just leave yourself too open if you do that)

But yes I agree that tossing his nades back at him will work far less then you'd like

Ehh, I nade strip, cooking takes too long. The more nades I have out, the more likely my opponent will begin to become distracted and frustrated. They'll lose track of any C4's and may begin to overreact to nades.

 

[Ville]

Just replace Dthrow with Uthrow, because once you got snake in the air, you have a slight advantage.
After you threw him into the air just try to provoke some airdoge/cypher/attack/jump and punish after wards.
I don't know exactly but I think Uair beats Dair and Nair of snake, otherwise you need to get timing.
Falcon kick also is a very useful tool against the Nikita cuz it just pushes it aside and you get closer to snake.
Actually I never have problems with the camping but only with Jab, Ftilt and Utilt, so try to avoid those at any costs.

 

[Darxmarth23]

i say just give up.

falcon isn't what he used to be.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

Camp... snake? If I see a Falcon camping me, I'll laugh and toss nades at him till he comes to me. Patience is a requirement for good snake players, and they WILL wait forever, especially since they're heavier than you and can take a botched nade or two. Area control is my main priority, and I'll drop down C4's in between us as well. I rarely ever hurt myself with nades unless I'm going for a kamikaze run with a nade.

You can go on forever argueing situations. Hdoc, if I didn't know any better it sounds like you're just trying to troll the Falcon boards.

 

[F5Hazardousdoc]

Just replace Dthrow with Uthrow, because once you got snake in the air, you have a slight advantage.
After you threw him into the air just try to provoke some airdoge/cypher/attack/jump and punish after wards.
I don't know exactly but I think Uair beats Dair and Nair of snake, otherwise you need to get timing.
Falcon kick also is a very useful tool against the Nikita cuz it just pushes it aside and you get closer to snake.
Actually I never have problems with the camping but only with Jab, Ftilt and Utilt, so try to avoid those at any costs.

Yes, uthrow is a good idea. I'll make sure to uthrow snakes more often. Also, I've had some luck in landing Falcon Dive on high recovery snakes, because he grabs alot higher than himself too. Also, many snakes are fearful of trying to punish a failed falcon dive if you tried to punish their high recovery, since they may miss, and then fast fall past the ledge to their death.

Uair beats dair and nair, and I think bair if you're directly beneath or in front. HOWEVER, if you are behind snakes bair, it'll beat your priority. Also, nair has long range in front due to snakes massive manly legs, so you're gonna have to make sure you're not uairing in front of snake, or he'll outrange ya.

Falcon Kick > Nikita. But, I don't USE nikita. Nikita is used mainly for edgeguarding purposes, nades work well anywhere else.

It really all depends on how well the opponent snake is using his mines, if he's laying them down in the middle of the stage, he may be either camping an approach, or just stupid. I lay mines down on edges, so I can edgeguard at any time.

You can go on forever argueing situations. Hdoc, if I didn't know any better it sounds like you're just trying to troll the Falcon boards.

No NO NOO!. Stop. You don't know what you are talking about. If you can't counter the CAMP, then theres no point to figuring out a close range game, since you WON'T GET CLOSE. This is entirely necessary to finding a better approach to snake.

And lolwut? I've been on these boards HELPING out ALOT! I've been trying to make falcon a viable character for a LONG time now.... :|
This topic was to draw intelligent discussion about how to fight snake. And so far, it has. I can argue on snake's behalf.

i say just give up.

falcon isn't what he used to be.

NO U

 

[Zeallyx]

Yes, uthrow is a good idea. I'll make sure to uthrow snakes more often. Also, I've had some luck in landing Falcon Dive on high recovery snakes, because he grabs alot higher than himself too. Also, many snakes are fearful of trying to punish a failed falcon dive if you tried to punish their high recovery, since they may miss, and then fast fall past the ledge to their death.

Uair beats dair and nair, and I think bair if you're directly beneath or in front. HOWEVER, if you are behind snakes bair, it'll beat your priority. Also, nair has long range in front due to snakes massive manly legs, so you're gonna have to make sure you're not uairing in front of snake, or he'll outrange ya.

Falcon Kick > Nikita. But, I don't USE nikita. Nikita is used mainly for edgeguarding purposes, nades work well anywhere else.

It really all depends on how well the opponent snake is using his mines, if he's laying them down in the middle of the stage, he may be either camping an approach, or just stupid. I lay mines down on edges, so I can edgeguard at any time.

No NO NOO!. Stop. You don't know what you are talking about. If you can't counter the CAMP, then theres no point to figuring out a close range game, since you WON'T GET CLOSE. This is entirely necessary to finding a better approach to snake.

And lolwut? I've been on these boards HELPING out ALOT! I've been trying to make falcon a viable character for a LONG time now.... :|
This topic was to draw intelligent discussion about how to fight snake. And so far, it has. I can argue on snake's behalf.

NO U

about not beeing able to get close:
I never had that problem, as falcon is fast it shouldn't take that much percent to dodge most projectiles/C4's and get close

or FC a DACUsmash and you are pretty close too

and for close range game, it's dangerous as snake's tilt are very strong, but jab>jab>grab should work, and from there hope you can punish airdodges or wait for him to Nair and punish his landing lag (or any other airial, and just try to punish his counter)

 

[Lareit]

Yes, uthrow is a good idea. I'll make sure to uthrow snakes more often. Also, I've had some luck in landing Falcon Dive on high recovery snakes, because he grabs alot higher than himself too. Also, many snakes are fearful of trying to punish a failed falcon dive if you tried to punish their high recovery, since they may miss, and then fast fall past the ledge to their death.

Uair beats dair and nair, and I think bair if you're directly beneath or in front. HOWEVER, if you are behind snakes bair, it'll beat your priority. Also, nair has long range in front due to snakes massive manly legs, so you're gonna have to make sure you're not uairing in front of snake, or he'll outrange ya.

Falcon Kick > Nikita. But, I don't USE nikita. Nikita is used mainly for edgeguarding purposes, nades work well anywhere else.

It really all depends on how well the opponent snake is using his mines, if he's laying them down in the middle of the stage, he may be either camping an approach, or just stupid. I lay mines down on edges, so I can edgeguard at any time.

No NO NOO!. Stop. You don't know what you are talking about. If you can't counter the CAMP, then theres no point to figuring out a close range game, since you WON'T GET CLOSE. This is entirely necessary to finding a better approach to snake.

And lolwut? I've been on these boards HELPING out ALOT! I've been trying to make falcon a viable character for a LONG time now.... :|
This topic was to draw intelligent discussion about how to fight snake. And so far, it has. I can argue on snake's behalf.

NO U

I agree with you, patience was the first thing I learned as a snake player. Even if you get down in % or a stock, just wait and let them come to you. But Falcon is impossible to hit with any nade if he's just jumping around like some chinese acrobat and has any sense of timing to count the nades with you. It might seem odd, camping with out a projectile, but it does exist and can work.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Any time the Snake is up b'ing, always go for the up b grab and get a stock ahead.
Then you won't have to stress as much about how you'll win, you'll have a stock or so to plan it.

 

[Ayaz18]

You won't reach. Thats why snakes recover high.
well high doesn't mean off the screen high, but Falcon's two jumps plus the possibility of platforms can reach pretty high bud

This would be the time to knee or nipple spike. Btw, snakes can use Fair to recover...
Or.......you could be badass like Ayaz and Falcon Punch

Good snakes try not to recover low, and we can always C4 recovery.
You can't help to recover low if you've been spiked (I know, I use Snake too), and if Snake is at 150 + the c4 will kill him, if not you jump beside Snake, when he drops the c4 so it sticks to you, then jump away :/

So then I can just shield drop them and use them as psuedo counters. I don't cook nades often anyways...
well one user was pointing out how Snakes cook grenades, im saying that it takes about 3 seconds for the grenade to blow so where are you?? trying to camp?? get in his face so he can't cook the grenades. Dropping grenades isn't a problem, cause Snake has to Shield to drop it, then you sort of tech chase by predicting a roll a spot dodge or a normal shield let down. It's pretty simple

This is an ok idea, but keep in mind that snake doesn't have to use the second hit on ftilt, he can simply prone and then grab you on your landing lag.
lol, SHAD has zero landing lag, in my personal opinion it's Falcons best approach, plus it takes a bit of time for Snake to hold back his second attack of the Ftilt, ad because Falcon has zero lag on the SHAD he can elbow him in the face.

I lol whenever somebody tries to SDI out of nair. Good snakes don't use aerials... too much. I don't think you can SDI fast enough out of a dair string though, plus, snake could just predict and air control it in the same direction.
loling at someone trying SDI is a stupid move, and I know about stupid moves, at LBT I taunted on my last stock at 50ish% just to piss off my opponent. Unless Snake's aerials have been doubled jumped they have intense landing Lag, so by the time I SDI out of your Nair for example I can Fsmash you......in the face, and if you do Double jump it it just makes it easier to SDI out of it. Plus what's this about being to DI where i'm SDIing?Snake has no air manipulation

And then get mortared. :| and on your way up you get baired.
no.......... understand what im saying, spot dodge the motar, then Usmash him, go to training right now and Usmash with Snake, you will clearly notice the intense start up and after lag, just because Snake is sliding doesn't make it less lagier. All you do is slide with him with Usmash

for MK however:

Tornado? run or be brave and Falcon Kick


Naw, just don't get hit and grab him if he's trying to cancel the lag on landing.
What is this lag of which you speak of?

Gawd dsmash > : ( SH fastfall nair works well.. sometimes.
Nair has no priority (actually the second kick does for some reason?) plus Dsmash is quick with a huge hitbox

Jump here. If you get tripped.. well try to get out of being grabbed :S
In the frames that it takes to jump, MK already Dtilted you, plus MK doesn't apporach with it, they poke shields with it

Doesn't this apply to EVERYONE?
Not really, in fact a lot of characters can counter Dair easily with upB; an example is Marth, she gets invincibility frames, DDD gets SA, MK does anything, IC tether, giving one another invincibility frames, etc...


nice try

 

[Crzy]

GTFO Haz. >:E

All them **** nades are why I hated playing your Snake. Not to mention I lose my patience with you camping the other end tossing nades everywhere. >.>

I still need to break my habit of ledge jumping into your Nair. :'(