the REAL fox counter-character list

[I T I]

Fox > Peach.

At Wife and Vidjo's level, this gap shortens, but the further down you go, the more overwhelming the fox player is for peach. Even if you're fast enough to smash DI out of the utilt, Usmash is still too much, especially when you waveshine to Usmash. Fox's aerials are too quick, and he's next to impossible to grab because of the shine. Plus, he can always just land behind you. Priority evens out this match a bit, but fox still has too many options and can act too quick for peach.

Wouldn't most fox players want to fight a peach over a shiek or marth? And explain to me how doc and mario are even with fox. chainthrows aren't enough to even it out, imo.

Bair/uar combos and the cape are the major reasons. A technical Mario can Uair fox off the stage and cape his recovery.

Of course, that's much easier said than done, and definately doesn't make it any better than even for the Mario/Doc.

 

[frotaz37]

Well for the Mario and Doc being even, As long as they DI you can't waveshine them. A Fox off the ledge against a good Mario/Doc is dead. And both Mario/Doc combo fast fallers as well as they CT them. You can't really edgeguard Doc either when he comes from above since he will pill before reaching the ledge. Fox can do the same to the Mario's so it makes them even. Fox deals with other characters much better than Mario does overall though.

Fox's back air goes through Doc's pills, so it is going to be really hard for Doc to come back from above.

 

[chamberlin]

Erm... Fox has no counters. It's insanly hard to even touch a master Fox.

Fox even has instant kills on his so-called "counters".

(Falco) Fox can chain-grab Falco, hit him than edge-guard him to death. Especially on FD. You can see Ken and Chillin do this countless times
(Peach) Umm... Waveshine-edgehog anyone? He has plenty of ways to kill Peach other than that that aren't insta-kills.

As for all the other counters you listed, you must be smokin' teh crack. Except for Maybe Marth, 'cause his range+speed+chain-grabbing is pretty beastly. Even then, Fox is still freaking fast.

 

[Vall3y]

the chain grab on falco doenst last long. at like 40% falco can not di and shine fox.
but wow, marth countered by fox? ugh thats mean

 

[that 1 guy]

I think captain falcon can do pretty well against a fox. Yeah fox can combo him really well, but falcon can own when he gets a grab in with his amazingly wonderful tech chasing skills. I think a falcon is the same ranking as a shiek when it comes to fighting fox, even with falcons crappy and easily shineable recovery. lol maybe I just feel this way because I like falcon.
About the whole peach thing, maybe it is because all I seem to play are good peaches but they give my fox way too much trouble. I really don't think fox is a peach counter. Fox has to pretty much go the whole game without any technical mistakes without getting gayed by peach's chain throw and dsmash combos.
I can agree with marth being in a counter position previously mentioned reasons. Not to mention he is pretty much an edgeguarding god which is not pretty for a fox player.

 

[Cort]

This list wins because it was made by Mr. Meowww.

 

[Wave⁂]

i say Ness should be a bit higher up. not much...

could anyone explain to me how bowser got that high? not saying he sucks or anything...i kinda like him. but how?

 

[Scintillatedseed]

What's the difference b/w "countered by" and countered? You're saying falco can only take fox on non fd stages and marth only on fd, while the other's can take fox on from 0 to death by comboing him?

The list is contradictory, first it says that marth counter's fox on fd-only and then it says he counter's him on non-fd stages. Anybody care to clear this up?

 

[leafgreen386]

What's the difference b/w "countered by" and countered? You're saying falco can only take fox on non fd stages and marth only on fd, while the other's can take fox on from 0 to death by comboing him?

The list is contradictory, first it says that marth counter's fox on fd-only and then it says he counter's him on non-fd stages. Anybody care to clear this up?

Your confusion made your post near incoherant. I had to read it several several times to figure out what you were actually asking, and even now I'm not sure.

Where the list says "countered by" means those are Fox's counters. Where it says "counters" it's who Fox counters. The reason some characters appear in multiple places on the list with notes about FD by them is because of chain throwing. CTing is easiest on FD, and so gives certain characters an advantage.

And your comment about "can only take Fox on..." is a completely wrong assumption. This list does not mean that these characters will always win, just that they have a harder or easier time. Does Falco always beat Fox in tournaments on stages other than FD? No. Does Fox always win against Falco on FD? No. The list still shows who has a greater probablility to win when both characters are played at a high level.

 

[Scintillatedseed]

It wasn't an assumption, it was something somebody wrote explaining how the counters could kill fox from 0 to death.
"wait, luigi can kill fox 0 to death. luigi is good at juggling fast fallers
also zelda can kill a newb fox from 0 to death (if the fox doesnt DI at all basically)" which foxandfalco said. It made me confused thinking that the threadmaker wrote "counters" and "countered by" to mean the same thing. But I get it now. Thanks for clearing things up in such a graceful manner. =P I somehow doubt you had too hard a time understanding what I wrote.

 

[Wave⁂]

i never knew space animals weres so vulnerable.....but they are good. :/

 

[SpeedYoshi]

Yoshi can take fox 0-death on FD

 

[Wave⁂]

yet another thing i never knew. *sad*

 

[Deleted member]

Yoshi can take fox 0-death on FD

wrong.

too bad, I just came back from east falls church literally half an hour ago. Next time I'm in the area, I'll make sure we play so you can 0 to death me.

 

[Wave⁂]

ok...i dont know that....

 

[ToP CaT]

marth owns fox on any platform stage except dreamland

 

[Wave⁂]

what makes dreamland so speacial?

is it cause the platforms are so high?

 

[Vall3y]

well, yeah.
but marth doesnt really die from the top fast so i dont think its so bad

 

[Ryu777]

ths has probably been pointed out already, but starting at the low thirties, a falco can DI up and get out of foxes chain grab, so fox dosent even have that advantage on FD. I think falco counters fox evrywhere, but thats just me.

 

[Mew2King]

Marth doesn't counter Fox.

I think Falco > Fox > Marth, even though it's extremely close between the 3.

 

[Vall3y]

m2k, what about fd?
doesnt marth counter fox on fd because he can own him with grab combos?

 

[K.C. Cloud]

Fox can get out of the CGs earlier than Falco can, just takes more effort and awareness to spotdodge the marth grab attempts. I don't think he own fox there, just has a way to even out the playing field and put some % here and there without the fox being able to do anything for a bit. Just my opinion though.

 

[Xelyst]

**** peach *****

 

[NJzFinest]

wait, luigi can kill fox 0 to death. luigi is good at juggling fast fallers
also zelda can kill a newb fox from 0 to death (if the fox doesnt DI at all basically)

I just got a neg rep from some noob for this post above ^

1. The post is almost a year old
2. At least try to put some thought into your comment next time

lol @ smashboards

 

[leafgreen386]

I just got a neg rep from some noob for this post above ^

1. The post is almost a year old
2. At least try to put some thought into your comment next time

lol @ smashboards

I got that same comment in three other threads I posted in, one of which wasn't even in the Fox section.

 

[mcc]

oops someone delete this post please

 

[Wave⁂]

foxandfalco:
love he sig

why are we talking about Fox vs. Fox matches? it is theoreticallly impossible for a char to counter itself.

 

[mood4food77]

no one answered the ness thing soo....

ness's 0-death on fox
3 uthrows follow di, into djcffl uairs galore into djcffl bair into edgegaurd, it does work, i have done it before

and bowser being high, his up b almost completely nullifies fox's approach into a shine/combo

 

[Wave⁂]

thanks for actually answering...

 

[froz3ntear]

I just got a neg rep from some noob for this post above ^

1. The post is almost a year old
2. At least try to put some thought into your comment next time

lol @ smashboards

lol. Thats what you get when the only smash community online is smashboards and its open to idiotic masses who say and do idiotic things without logic, reasons or justifications, not that I'm saying this is not a good/decent community... idiots will always exist like einstein said.

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.

 

[leafgreen386]

Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.

I thought it was "and I'm not sure about the former." It doesn't explicitly say "universe" iirc.

edit: Oh well this post was random and pointless.

 

[Wave⁂]

leafgreen386's right.

peace.

 

[KeepSpeedN]

A peach that has mastered the art of cstick down can compete with a fox.

hahahahaha falsefalco youre my hero

he is my hero..

 

[StripesOrBars]

I can't believe no Shiek players have come in here and started crying about the Fox Shiek match being broken for Fox.

God Shiek players are gay.

 

[K1T3]

I can't believe no Shiek players have come in here and started crying about the Fox Shiek match being broken for Fox.

God Shiek players are gay.

I would say it's slightly in foxs favor but definately not broken for fox.
And fox does have an advantage over peach. Run away laser spam she can't catch you. Hit with a spaced bair when switching sides. When she does something dumb do a quick drill shine upsmash.

 

[Wave⁂]

Wow, HUGE bump.

I think the Fox vs Sheik matchup is very varied depending on the stage chosen. IE, FoD for Sheik.

 

[Winston]

Lol, annoying, I think mow + everyone else will have changed their opinions about the top tier matchups since last time...

Especially the first post.

 

[Binx]

Peach seems so easy to me if you are technical enough to pull it off, just laser spam while dodging turnips, drillshine into a grab or upsmash and I am pretty sure peach can be inverse infinite shined too. But either way laser spam and drill shines to grab uthrow uair or drillshine usmash past 100% means either a stock or a ton of damage against her.

 

[SCOTU]

Yeah, just don't get grabbed. And btw, every character (that slides to the shine) can be inverse horizontal drillshine infinited.

 

[Dobs]

How does Marth's or Falco's effectiveness rely so much on whether their playing on FD or not. Also I would think that FD would give Falco a slight advantage due to the lack of platforms to escape from his SHL's. I'm not very familiar with Fox matchups so I might be missing something...