The Professor Layton for SSB4 thread!

[FraserLazer]

Every new character that was not a clone in smash 4 felt fun and unique and I feel any dlc character should have that as well if they are to be justified to be in and layton can fit this perfectly.

 

[Curious Villager]

We haven't really had any characters from any puzzle solving series yet either (Besides Dr. Mario but y'know....) so there's definitely a lot to be explored with that.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I've been trying to make a puzzle centered moveset for quite some time (it's actually quite similar to the one just posted not that long ago), but it's rather hard to think of a puzzle move that's not too gimmicky and is actually usable while still feeling Laytonesque. I have a couple ideas but i want to get some feedback.

1.) The simplest move i came up with is like an chargeable and advanced version of Mewtwo's disable. In this move pressing Neutral B will make Layton concentrate and say "this reminds me of a puzzle". once he finally fully charges ( which should take about 4-6 seconds) Layton will point in the direction he's facing (like how he does when he solves a puzzle) and Say "solve this Puzzle". Any enemy caught within about a distance of 1/2 of final destination will instantly become Dizzy ( because they're so confused from trying to solve the puzzle)

2.) In this move pressing neutral B will cause you to stand still and a thought-bubble to appear above Layton's head that contains a simple 9 tile square. This square is initially be randomly mismatched but you the player will have swap the tiles with the control stick and A button in order to make a picture of the Layton Symbol. once the picture is completed a "puzzle trap" appears in front of Layton. If an enemy touches the puzzle trap they will be disabled for at least 8 seconds, unless they solve the tile puzzle that's now above their head! You can potential have multiple puzzle traps at a time and with each new puzzle the positions of the tile picture are randomized. You can also cancel the solving the puzzle by pressing neutral B, and it will still keep the puzzle's progress.

The 1st move would be a standard chargeable attack, thus making Layton more well balanced, while for the 2nd move i'd imagine that Layton would be a Area denial or trapper character that focuses on keeping opponents away as he completes his puzzles. If y'all have any idea that would be better for balance, i'd love to hear it.

 

[Laytonite]

Thanks @ Curious Villager for the information and the welcome, I've spoilerfied my post.
I've replicated some of my renders using his art from PL vs PW rather than redrawing what I originally did to show what I mean in those descriptions. I'm still working out how to put them in the post, so if anyone wants to give me a "hint" that would be great!
@ FraserLazer the idea of using the catapult as a special never occured to me. That was in the fourth game, yes? I'll try and incorporate that as his down special, that way I'll have got a nod to each of the DS games in his default set up. Also, can I steal that dash attack? I love it!
@ King Sonnn DeDeDoo I like both of those moves. The only issue I see with the second one is that it might be awkward to select the blocks to move unless the thought puzzle is huge, which might be a bit unfair to people trying to approach you (by obscuring the screen). Perhaps that can be fixed by just holding the button down to shift the blocks in place and when complete the thought becomes a puzzle trap, which unfortuntately sounds comparatively boring to working it out yourself and detracts from the Layton vibe of the move. Perhaps you could just shuffle one circular block with the Layton seal and try and get it into the middle, whilst also trying to shuffle the blocks by nudging them into a perfect top hat to increase the length of time it's on the field, but that might be too difficult to pull of in an actual match to any great effect. I do like the idea of those puzzle traps though - that's absolute genius. Though perhaps they should take less damage than normal / not get launched whilst in the puzzle to keep it a bit more balanced.

Very late edit: I found an interesting pie graph of a Reddit survey, which puts the Prof on the 3rd page out of 7. As has been said, these polls aren't hugely representative, but it's good to know Layton is getting more support than Shrek. Just.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...m4/pubchart?oid=1981029313&format=interactive

 

[FraserLazer]

of course you can @ Laytonite

 

[Curious Villager]

I have been meaning to look through the catalog of vast amount of puzzles we have gotten from the series over the years and see if there is any potential interesting moveset to be brought from there as I do feel that that's one of the potential things Sakurai would do if he where to include Layton, incorporating what makes the series as a whole. I just never got around to looking through them, although I do know one thing: there would definitely be a sliding tile puzzle type of attack somewhere in his moveset. Because the series is full of it!

 

[FraserLazer]

Maybe the sliding blokes could be his final smash sliding around hitting everyone not sure how it could be used as a normal move
as it might take too long

 

[Curious Villager]

Maybe the sliding blokes could be his final smash sliding around hitting everyone not sure how it could be used as a normal move
as it might take too long

I could see it working as a throw move. Like seeing the opponent getting tussled around with sliding blocks for a bit and then launched away after that.

 

[FraserLazer]

I like that idea and they could be rotated in another throw like the rotate and arrange puzzles

 

[Curious Villager]

Sounds pretty neat. I think they can probably also make use of puzzles like the ones where you are supposed to lock in certain objects or the multiple choice type puzzles where you can have three quick choices in regards to what effect your attack can have.

 

[FraserLazer]

they could also be used for smash attacks similar to pacman using a puzzle block or a mini game piece like the parrot or camera

 

[Curious Villager]

Mhmm, perhaps also any overworld elements can be used too, such as the Magnifying glass, which can probably be used to take in any items around and turn any upcoming projectiles into hint coins. Perhaps even stunning your opponent for a quick second too.

 

[FraserLazer]

my idea for his magnifying glass would be that as his b move similar to lucas in project m it could help charge up other attacks quicker

 

[Curious Villager]

Well there's a lot that can be done. Even if Sakurai wished to do more than simply giving him a fencing sword and a couple gadgets. I'll look through the puzzles and everything again sometime if there are any more ideas for Layton to be had.

 

[fogbadge]

ive thought that he fighting style could resemble him investigating and solving puzzles in terms of animation and moves

 

[Laytonite]

Here's the puzzle archetypes I can think of off the top of my head, if it's any use:

Spoiler

Multiple choice
Draw lines
- maze puzzles are an offshoot of this
Circle an element of the puzzle
Write an answer
"Build" the puzzle by moving pieces into place (EG coin gun)
Sliding blocks

Some of these I've used for his throws/Smashes (lines, multiple choice, sliding blocks), but he could perhaps draw a circle in front of him to grab the opponent and charge the coin gun by building parts of it (the player could perhaps speed this up by mashing the control stick). Maybe it falls apart again once used, or maybe it stays whole for the rest of the match. To be honest that's all I can really think of.

 

[FraserLazer]

Some others include arrange such as the puzzle where you have to place the flowers in the box without them overlapping and drawing a path. Perhaps the path could be similar to pac mans side b but not sure how else it could be used ?

 

[Rasumii]

I've been playing Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright, and loving every second of it. Gotta love hearing the Professor saying "Objection!"

 

[LIQUID12A]

Well, the support for Layton on Miiverse is evident:

 

[BluePikmin11]

There's been plenty of popular Layton posts in Miiverse for the past week recently, especially from the Layton cosplay account himself.
It's pretty good news.

 

[Martingale]

I feel as though the Layton cause is very light on the ground on sites such as SmashBoards, Reddit and Gamefaqs, but he's pulling weight elsewhere. As has been stated many times, twitter and tumblr have more concentrated laytonhype than here. So, while layton is sailing a slow boat in some polls (the combined reddit poll placed him 24th overall), he may just surprise people.

 

[Curious Villager]

Hence why I said that they should poll as many people from as many different websites as possible, since though some characters may seem quiet and small on one site, they may actually have a big movement going on another.

I mean just look how surprised Smashboards was when they found out that Daisy is getting a lot of votes and support from fans in other sites.

 

[FraserLazer]

That's a good point i am always surprised why Phoenix wright normally gets more votes than Professor layton in polls

 

[LIQUID12A]

That's a good point i am always surprised why Phoenix wright normally gets more votes than Professor layton in polls

Wright is probably more popular as a third party request due to his prior appearance in UMVC3.

While I do like Wright, I think one fighting game appearance is good enough for him.

 

[Curious Villager]

I think the Ace Attorney fanbase is probably bigger than the Layton fanbase and it's still running whereas the Professor Layton franchise is... trying to figure out whether or not it actually ended or is still going on.... I guess....

Also as LIQUID12A said, Phoenix has been in a fighting game before so it may actually be easier to imagine him with a fighting moveset too. After all, some people still have a hard time seeing Layton in battle despite the many time's he has shown his abilities and skill's in combat throughout the main series more so than Phoenix Wright did.

 

[FraserLazer]

I suppose that shows sales are not everything as layton has outsold the ace attorney series

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah although I've seen that the prequels didn't do as well as the original trilogy (Which is probably a contributing factor of why the developers decided to end the series with the prequels despite the cliffhanger at the end of Unwound/Lost Future hinting at more games taking place after the original trilogy). I don't know what the sales in the Ace Attorney series is like though.

 

[FraserLazer]

Ace attorney series has sold about 5.3 million professor Layton has sold about 15 million (also I felt they needed to answer the cliffhanger with Descole at the the end of Azran legacy)
.

 

[Curious Villager]

It's odd how they tend to say that the series has ended yet they drop hints of more games to come. They did the same thing after Lost Future whilst still having the thing with Luke's letter and apparently they also released a letter of Emmy after Azran Legacy too (Although this is only known in Japan).

 

[FraserLazer]

Its like they are taunting us. Also I thought that Descole saying a new adventure awaits we would get a different type of game with him as the main character.

 

[Curious Villager]

They are dropping a lot of hints to new games involving all sorts of characters despite them continuesly saying the series has ended.... A game with Nobody/Layton/Luke/Emmy/Descole/Flora/Stachenscarven as the main character.... Gosh Level-5 make your mind up.

 

[FraserLazer]

Technically they said it was the last one with layton as the main character so who knows if they will have a true spin off series or not .

 

[Curious Villager]

I guess the whole Layton 7 game may be an experiment to that as they where apparently implying that it's a part of he main series....

 

[FraserLazer]

We will just have to wait and see .

 

[BluePikmin11]

I've been thinking about for a while, and I think it's now become a large obstacle for Layton, do you think Jibanyan will get in over him? His franchise has had far bigger success than Layton now. It seems at this point Level-5 is likely to ask for Yokai Watch to get a representative if they got approached by Sakurai.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm not sure about that, it depends how successfull the series is compared to Professor Layton, how much he is requested for Smash and if the series has seen a western release.

Unless he has all three things going for him, I don't think we need to worry too much about him making it in over Professor Layton. Unless Level-5 pull's a Kojima and starts begging for him rather than Layton.

I'm pretty sure Sakurai isn't going to include just any third party character a given company suggest. Which I guess can probably also work against Layton....

 

[Laytonite]

To add to what Curious Villager said above me, I should imagine that they're going to be paying attention to which characters garner lots of support across a wide age range of players and with both genders and they'll probably also be checking sales figures globally. Layton has all of this going for him, so if my hunch is accurate this will be a huge advantage.
My biggest concern in this regard is that despite generally being a popular character, Layton is not everyone's first choice so although a large amount of players would be alright with his inclusion, it's entirely possible that this popularity could go over Sakurai's head a little if they don't look further into this aspect of the characters (and why would they, there's loads being suggested).
Regardless, if I am correct, the Layton case is still very strong. It also helps that he's a very recognisable character and would fit Smash's style excellently in that regard.

 

[Martingale]

To add to what Curious Villager said above me, I should imagine that they're going to be paying attention to which characters garner lots of support across a wide age range of players and with both genders and they'll probably also be checking sales figures globally. Layton has all of this going for him, so if my hunch is accurate this will be a huge advantage.
My biggest concern in this regard is that despite generally being a popular character, Layton is not everyone's first choice so although a large amount of players would be alright with his inclusion, it's entirely possible that this popularity could go over Sakurai's head a little if they don't look further into this aspect of the characters (and why would they, there's loads being suggested).
Regardless, if I am correct, the Layton case is still very strong. It also helps that he's a very recognisable character and would fit Smash's style excellently in that regard.

I can't imagine they would ignore the key demographics they really have been trying to expand. It seems like they would go for the biggest chunks of the polls, but this is a SUGGESTION ballot. Roughly 18 of the top characters on the Reddit combined ballot (which was rigged with thousands of false votes for certain characters) would have extreme difficulty being included, which shifts Layton to about sixth. And as a key player in the DS franchise, with a lot of support on the female and 18+ demographics, make of it what you will. Once again, I'm going to yell like a broken record about a lack of Layton support on reddit et al.

Would they really include a character such as Banjo-Kazooie, who will never return to Nintendo bar a miraculous IP handover, or a character that has been faithful to the company bar a single spinoff mobile game that doesn't even really feature him?

 

[FraserLazer]

Don't a lot of older people play Layton like 30 + year old's (mostly based from what I have heard years ago and seen on adverts) those people are not really going to play smash are they

 

[Erureido]

I'm going to throw a few pieces of the puzzle together here, and basically recant what I said on the ballot:

-Layton's game series is extremely popular on 3DS and DS. It's definitely one of the flagship exclusives, despite being third party.

-Layton is Nintendo-exclusive. There may be allusions to him in Layton 7 or the Layton Brothers Mystery Room iOS games, but he does not appear in these games. It's a tip of the hat to Layton (no pun intended), but a lot of people use this as a reason he wouldn't be included.

-The creators of our favourite gentleman have been quoted as saying they would be happy to have the professor included in the game and would work with the Smash team if he were. The ball's in your court, Sakurai.

-Layton's vast array of potential movesets, from his inventions like the Glider and the Slot Machine Gun, to his fencing skills, to little things like springing a hint coin from the ground, make him a very possible character. Over seven games, he has built up quite an offensive arsenal-- more so than many characters already on the game.

-Despite Layton becoming self-published by Level-5 after Curious Village (what can I say, they saw they were on to a winner, I don't blame them for trying to get a little more profit), Level-5 and Nintendo are evidently still on very good terms. Note Inazuma Eleven's anime being featured in the Nintendo Anime Channel. Level-5 have several Nintendo-exclusive series, and it genuinely came as a surprise that there were no Level-5 trophies in Smash when the likes of Rayman got a few offerings (I know this was requested by Ubisoft, but still... Ubisoft have been very vocal about WiiU's trouble in being a serious console). But I digress.

-Fans have been baying for Layton since before Brawl. Along with Little Mac, Megaman, and Geno (the last one isn't ever happening, let's get real), Layton was requested a lot. 2/4 of these became real. Layton has topped numerous "smash predict" fan polls and lists, and it's the general consensus that he would fit in to this sort of game.

-The holy poll. The ballot box. I've been keeping an eye on Twitter and the support for Layton in Smash has been pretty solid. If the arguments are formulated well, we may very well have a strong candidate for inclusion. I implore fans to keep spreading the word of Layton within all forms of media!

(Also, it might help to say you're a female on the poll-- it's their target expanding demographic. That, and a true gentleman never turns down the request of a lady...)

Thanks for posting this! I haven't started my Smash Ballot for Layton yet because I've been really busy these past few weeks, but I should hopefully work on it sometime soon. Your ideas will help me get started on what I'll put on my Ballot; I mean, I'm going to prepare one good 500-word essay so that I can offer strong input for Layton's inclusion. Of course, I'll use some of my own reasons for his Smash Bros inclusion as well, and I'll be sure to post it here on the forums once its finished.

As for all of the other Layton supporters on this thread, I do have some things to share. I have a reveal trailer idea for Layton as well, one that I had since October. I'm going to post that in a short while though. In addition to the Smash Ballot, there's one bit of work I must take care of before I share my reveal trailer idea, because it'll only make sense when I take care of that other piece of work first (you'll see what I mean in the coming weeks).

EDIT: Here, let me give you all a hint coin.

When I mean "one bit of work I must take care of before I share my reveal trailer idea," the hint lies in my signature. If you look at my sig, you might already know where I'm getting at.