The Potential Behind Fox's Fair

[RPK]

Well, when it comes to Fox's Fair, it is his most damage aerial. Sure, it doesnt have the knock back of per say his bair, but it is the one that can pump out the most damage and can easily combo into itself. As most Fox mains know, we use this move to destroy some of the bigger characters in the game such as Dedede, & DK. Even though some of you might already know this stuff, Im going to be posting it anyways because I love Fox's Fair and that its probably one of my most used aerials.

Some characters can be hit by all 5 parts of his SH Auto Cancel'd Fair. Some characters like DK, Dedede, Bowser, and Ganondorf are the ones that are easiest to hit and are the most recognizable because of the size of the character and that you can do it immedietly. However, there are some characters that can hit by all 5 parts of a SH Auto Cancel'd Fair depending on the percent that theyre at. Of course this isnt taking into account DI and everything else that can be done to escape a SH Auto Cancel'd Fair. Only thing that I will be showing here is the percents that I was able to start hitting a character with all 5 parts of a SH Auto Cancel'd Fair. Of course some characters wont be shown because of their height. However, there are a few that I didnt really expect to hit...

The following characters will be placed starting from the lowest percent to the highest percent:
Charizard: 0
Ganondorf: 0
Dedede: 0
DK: 0
Bowser: 0
Rob: 6
Samus: 17
Falco:57
Ike: 57
Link: 58
Wolf: 77 (He was a b17ch to hit when he was standing and walking...So hitting him is going to be weird.)
Sonic: 85
Pit: 88
Lucario: 89
Zelda: 91
Peach: 96 (It will only hit 4 times till 108...How weird o.O)
Wario: 97
Yoshi: 97 (It will only hit 4 times till...whatever percent. Too lazy to get to that right now >3<)
Marth: 98
Luigi:99
Captain Falcon: 102
Snake: 108 (Fat @55 >_<)
Shiek: 112
Mario: 121% (sometimes he gets out with all but the last hit connecting, and sometimes gets hit by all 5. Weird hitbox...)


Fox: 145 =/

(Also, I landed a SH Nair to Fair on Falco and it combo'd...****...<3)

EDIT: Going to be putting in characters as I find them out...
EDIT2: This should be all the characters that can get hit by a sh fair. If you think Im missing anyone that can get hit, please feel free to post in here with the character and the percent that they start at. Thanks.

 

[Jenkins]

dude fair is like fox's safest approach....i use it the most

 

[RPK]

Yeah, but depending on what they do, and what character it is, it wont really hit anything =/

 

[Jenkins]

Yeah, but depending on what they do, and what character it is, it wont really hit anything =/

yet still safe ;D

 

[RPK]

yet still safe ;D

Hm...Touche <3

 

[Charoo]

fair is a great move. You can do retreating forward air and mimic wario's play style.

nothing will ever beat nair though. Bair is a close second for me

 

[RPK]

Of course. You can combo Nair into almost anything >_> Like Nair to Fair at certain percents, or Nair to Upsmash

 

[DarkAura]

i don't understand how it hits characters as they get higher percents... does their hurtbox get bigger or something?

 

[shinato91]

I have pulled out a fair to u-smash a couple of times, it didn't hit completely but lifted the other guy a bit and allowed me to up smash before it landed

 

[SnowballBob33]

It hits at higher percetages because as their damage increases, they fly farther per hit of the fair. At 0% the first 2 hits may connect but then the last may not. Some people need more damage to get so that they fly up and stay inside the fair each of the 5 hits.

And fair is beast because if you shac and hit with the first few kicks, it leads into many moves like utilt, dsmash, and at high percents it leads into usmash. Also, its good for catching people falling, and in airdodges. Its a good approach against people who may be lacking an aerial with range like wario or luigi for example.

 

[soul ark]

Something i like to do is if my opponent is high in the air almost at the top of the blast line i rising fair them and the last hit knocks em up

 

[AvaricePanda]

Pay attention when you hit with F-air.

The thing with approaching F-air is that:

You're jumping towards your opponent, and you F-air. It's a five hit move. If the first hit connects, you're almost bound to get punished, as he can DI whatever way he wants. He can go up and into you and punish with a B-air, down and into you and punish with a B-air/U-air, DI out and punish with a F-air (there aren't too many F-airs I can think of that wouldn't just get hit by more hits of your F-air, though), or he can just DI out and avoid it.

Now let's say you're jumping towards your opponent, and you F-air. The first two or three hits connect, and your opponent is DIing into you, so you drift backwards and hit him with the remaining two hits. Generally, DIing back as you F-air is a good idea anyway, because it's a lot safer and there's a lot better chance for you to be unpunishable. Granted, the opponent can DI away from your F-air and get hit less, but I'm almost certain that you can follow them depending on where they decide to DI. Generally, jumping towards your opponent->F-airing->hitting the opposite direction you're traveling on the control stick during the middle hits makes it harder to punish.

And as far as favorite Fox aerials go...

Top Tier:
N-air
B-air

High Tier:
U-air

Mid Tier:
F-air
D-air

I use all of my aerials pretty regularly though, but D-air definitely less than the others. D-air I only really use as a cross-up, but it's not unique in the regard that you can use it as a cross-up, because you can also use N-air, B-air, F-air (opponent is shielding on the ground to wait and try to punish your F-air, if they have a sucky F-tilt or OoS option you can just drift behind their shield and grab). D-air and F-air usually seem easier to cross-up, because the opponent shields anticipating it, but not anticipating for you to go behind their shield.

 

[NeverKnowsBest]

Forward air is an effing amazing move. It's long and can connect with people air dodging if timed correctly.

Random: I have been neutral airing out of the shield a lot lately. What are other Fox mains opinions on this tactic?

 

[DarkAura]

Random: I have been neutral airing out of the shield a lot lately. What are other Fox mains opinions on this tactic?

good for mixing your OoS options up and can catch your opponent off guard cause it's not something somebody would easily expect you to use

thats my opinion...

 

[RPK]

-looks at Dark Aura's sig- F*** you, SHTL >_>

Also, Ill see if I can get the other characters today.

 

[DarkAura]

-looks at Dark Aura's sig- F*** you, SHTL >_>

Also, Ill see if I can get the other characters today.

LOL i would change it but the file was on my old computer :\ and i can't SHTL if my life depended on it

 

[Hydra.]

Great thread, Thanks for posting it. =D
I'll come back as new info is updated.

 

[SnowballBob33]

How do you rank uair above fair and dair? Fair can be used to approach and chase and dair punishes dodges and sets up half of his attacks. Uair is only good when they are directly above you. You're more likely to get a kill with fair off the top than uair.

 

[AvaricePanda]

Being the fastest faller in the game (well acceleration, not top speed if you include D3), Fox is able to drop past people quite easily, and because of his shine stall, he's also able to float past people easily. This makes it much easier to bait an aerial attack or air-dodge and punish accordingly with a U-air. IMO, it's either really good, or that's just how I play.

On platformed stages such as Battlefield, you can really punish when people are on platforms above you. Someone misses a tech on the platform? Tech-chase to U-air, and they either land on another platform(which you can punish quite well), do an aerial or air-dodge (which you can punish quite well), or try to psyche you out and land on the bottom platform.

I make it sound too simple, but it really isn't too complicated. When you're opponent's above you, simply jumping and shining under them or near them baits a reaction, which you have time to punish.

Personally, I don't find F-air and D-air to be THAT good. There aren't unique times where I can use F-air and have it be the best option out of all of the aerials I can use, aside from if I need to recover or hit vertically high. Sure, I can use F-air to approach, but a good portion of the cast can just duck and punish. In the air, it can go past air-dodges and you can drift backwards to make less punishable. If your opponent likes shielding your F-airs on the ground, you can drift behind his shield and grab. But aside from the cross-up and vertical distance, it isn't too unique. If the opponent air-dodges, I could always just N-air, or maybe shine and U-air. Not that it's a bad option when the opponent air-dodges, because it certainly isn't; it just isn't unique.

D-air sets up attacks if the opponent doesn't DI or shield. While D-air has a decent start-up time, it's very predictable, as there aren't many things that Fox can do above you that aren't solved by simply shielding. While it links with many of his attacks, Jab does also, and can be spaced to avoid some character's grabs. D-air can punish spotdodges, but really any of your aerials can (although D-air is the best). However, how often will the opponent spotdodge when you're above him? Especially when your opponent knows the match-up, he'll just shield or short-hop away. You can D-air behind shields as a cross-up, but it isn't the only possible cross-up. However, the spacing for D-air can bait a shield, so it's good in that regard.

Honestly, I feel much more likely to get a kill with U-air off the top than F-air. If I'm approaching with F-air, they airdodge away and time it so the last hit doesn't hit them. If the F-air is already hitting them, they usually DI out before the last hit hits (unless they try to DI inside and I drift back as they're doing it).

 

[Apollo$]

Fair is da bomb, I sometimes use it as a baiting tactic and it always helps at the worst of times.

 

[Virgman]

I murder Snakes and any character larger than Fox with fair. It shield pokes them like 90 percent of the time. Its one of my favs. Almost guaraunteed shield poke...who could ask for more?

 

[LanceStern]

Have you guys ever fought lvl 9 cpu foxes.

The fair is destructive. It's so frustrating and they are kings at cross-ups

 

[Apollo$]

Have you guys ever fought lvl 9 CPU foxes.

The fair is destructive. It's so frustrating and they are kings at cross-ups

I haven't play the CPU in awhile, but they are really aggravating to fight, I wish I could use the shine as good as they do.

 

[DarkAura]

might i just say now that my fox CPU is a god?

you know how the more you fight the CPU with the same character the better he gets/starts fighting more like you?

well my fox is scary good.. he can occaisionally SHDL but he perfectly times SHLs atleast 3 times a match, he dash dances after kills (occasionally) and iv seen him lag cancel a few Fairs... anyone elses fox this good? i think the brawl data recording system thing is a bit too sensitive

 

[LanceStern]

Well they are just nasty computers. They space perfectly and are brilliant at cross ups and punishing anything you do.

I was once a believer that CPUs learn but I don't believe it now. They are just really good at spacing and punishing. And I've coninued to fight lvl 9 cpus (that's about my only practice) and they haven't gotten any smarter. They are still the same pains they have always been

 

[Uzima (Uzi)]

ya, the coms that are the characters you play as get beaty good, you play on a new wii and the go back to yours and the difference it blantantly obvious, there is a learning program where they copy the stuff the you do that works, thats why falcons falcon punch a ton after a falcon free for all where everyone only uses punch. its epic as hell to train falcons to onlu knee and falcon punch, then fight 3 lvl9's and get falcon punch comboed, its EPIC!

 

[TKD]

i don't understand how it hits characters as they get higher percents... does their hurtbox get bigger or something?

Their animation changes so their body box while being hit extends further upwards allowing the 2nd hit to connect which allows the following kicks to connect. The 1st hit has to connect though.

PS: This thread is very helpful, I only checked like...Marth and the big chars before

 

[RPK]

<3 for TKD

Im sad you werent able to go to Genesis </3

EDIT: I think I finished the list. Again, if there is anyone that Im missing, or any of the numbers are incorrect please tell me.