Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[Sneak Frog]

Does that imply no one else has a DACUS either? I'd find it hard to believe Greninja would be the only one to lose it.

 

[Coffee™]

Also, I'm getting conflicting reports regarding whether Water Shuriken has more end lag or not. I need to finish up some homework, so I can't look at it myself at the moment.

It definitely has more endlag. It's annoying but it doesn't take too long to get used to. The difference was pretty noticeable for me though.

 

[FullMoon]

Ok after doing some actual playing with Greninja online, I realize that the nerfs aren't really that bad. Sure, it takes away some options, but Greninja is still a really good character and the ending lag from Up-Smash isn't that limiting. I'm fine with it now.

I sure am glad for having less lag on aerial Shadow Sneak though, makes recovering after messing up a little less painful.

 

[KERO]

It definitely has more endlag. It's annoying but it doesn't take too long to get used to. The difference was pretty noticeable for me though.

Upon playing a few matches, I definitely have to agree. Why the hell did they see it fit to give Greninja this many nerfs compared to other characters...?

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Sad Greninja pictures for all of your patch-related concerns.

Spoiler

Upon playing a few matches, I definitely have to agree. Why the hell did they see it fit to give Greninja this many nerfs compared to other characters...?

Yeah. I don't understand why Greninja was hit so hard. I mean, he was good but not the top. :L

 

[Gunla]

My general playstyle is more ground based (so I'm mainly affected by the small endlag on USmash, which I've found is minimal) but yeah, I'd say some of these nerfs aren't too bad or they feel like neutral altercations (I think that the changes to Hydro Pump are better because I'm not just sending people into the air instead of hitting them on target).

Overall, we've got some nerfs, but I think there's worse out there. The Moveset Thread will be updated with 1.0.4 updates later this week.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

My general playstyle is more ground based (so I'm mainly affected by the small endlag on USmash, which I've found is minimal) but yeah, I'd say some of these nerfs aren't too bad or they feel like neutral altercations (I think that the changes to Hydro Pump are better because I'm not just sending people into the air instead of hitting them on target). Pretty sure Greninja still has his DACUS.

Overall, we've got some nerfs, but I think there's worse out there. The Moveset Thread will be updated with 1.0.4 updates later this week.

Unrelated, but that's a nice Naoto profile picture you've got. Unless it isn't. Then carry on.

 

[KERO]

My general playstyle is more ground based (so I'm mainly affected by the small endlag on USmash, which I've found is minimal) but yeah, I'd say some of these nerfs aren't too bad or they feel like neutral altercations (I think that the changes to Hydro Pump are better because I'm not just sending people into the air instead of hitting them on target). Pretty sure Greninja still has his DACUS.

Overall, we've got some nerfs, but I think there's worse out there. The Moveset Thread will be updated with 1.0.4 updates later this week.

DACUS has been removed for all characters. I mentioned that I could get it consistently in 1/8x using the Training Mode glitch, but I cannot anymore with Greninja. I really personally feel that Greninja got hit the hardest (Usmash end lag, Uair being a pain to get the last hit to connect, and Water Shuriken having slightly more uninterruptible end lag). I can't think of any other character with so many particular nerfs, but I intend to play Greninja no matter how what happens to the amphibian.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

but I intend to play Greninja no matter how what happens to the amphibian.

Couldn't agree more. No matter what happens to this darn ninja froggie, I'm stickin by him.

 

[FullMoon]

I didn't really notice any ending lag on Water Shuriken myself, it works like it always did for me.

Nevertheless, I'm staying loyal to Greninja no matter what happens. Though really I think who got hit worse with the nerf hammer was Sheik. Bouncing Fish takes longer to KO, Needles got more end lag, F-Air got weaker, U-Air got weaker...

This patch was not kind to ninjas, but at least Greninja's changes are that bad, just takes some time to get used to.

 

[Gunla]

Unrelated, but that's a nice Naoto profile picture you've got. Unless it isn't. Then carry on.

It is.

DACUS has been removed for all characters. I mentioned that I could get it consistently in 1/8x using the Training Mode glitch, but I cannot anymore with Greninja. I really personally feel that Greninja got hit the hardest (Usmash end lag, Uair being a pain to get the last hit to connect, and Water Shuriken having slightly more uninterruptible end lag). I can't think of any other character with so many particular nerfs

You are right about DACUS. Apologies.

As for a character with a big nerf, while they're less in quantity, try Bowser. Because Side Special for him can actually be recovered from if Bowser SDs off the stage.

 

[jabronni]

I was so upset at first about the nerfs, but I realize now that this was inevitable. Even though I don't agree with the changes, I like this character too much to just drop him. Who knows, over time we may get a buff like other mains are getting this time around. I'm going to tough it out and learn match ups. Besides the Wii U version is right around the corner and that's what I'm most excited about.

 

[FullMoon]

Oookay, NOW I noticed the ending lag on the shurikens. I guess I didn't notice it earlier because of the input lag in online matches. It makes approaching a bit more difficult now I suppose, but nothing unbearable.

But still, the good players are those that can adapt and play around any nerfs, right?

 

[Marilink]

I'll adjust no matter what, but this does make me wary of future balance patches...

 

[Spirst]

I'll adjust no matter what, but this does make me wary of future balance patches...

"Balance" patches.

 

[KERO]

I could see his Uair getting a buff in the next balance patch if there is one. It's fairly easy to miss that last hit, and I'm sure that Nintendo will quickly take notice of at least that. I also wouldn't mind them giving us back those lost IASA frames on Water Shuriken. Those are the two nerfs that make the least amount of sense to keep in in my opinion. Hydro Pump nerf made sense as did the Usmash one, but I feel those other two (mostly the Uair nerf) were fairly inexcusable

 

[FullMoon]

I wonder if Uair missing the last hit was an oversight that happened while they were tweaking the move. There doesn't seem to be much reason to do that to the move.

Hydro Pump and Up-Smash nerfs are pretty acceptable. I still don't understand why they changed Water Shuriken though.

... And they still didn't do anything about Substitute >_>

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I wonder if Uair missing the last hit was an oversight that happened while they were tweaking the move. There doesn't seem to be much reason to do that to the move.

Hydro Pump and Up-Smash nerfs are pretty acceptable. I still don't understand why they changed Water Shuriken though.

... And they still didn't do anything about Substitute >_>

Yeah. Would've been nice of Substitute got better. :/

 

[MartinAW4]

I finally downloaded the patch and tested all of Greninja`s moves. I posted all the changes from here and some new ones I noticed into a new thread to have them all in one place:
http://smashboards.com/threads/greninja-patch-1-0-4-changes.378520/

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

But argh. These nerfs have totally jacked up my playstyle. I prefer approaching via peppering with shuriken and this increased ending lag makes that bluh. .-.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Posting here first to rep my new sig.

These nerfs are manageable, though, albeit obnoxious. I just don't like how Sakurai and co took out a bunch of interesting unintentional mechanics because they were unintentional.

EDIT: huh that's lighter than i imagined.

 

[Sneak Frog]

Posting here first to rep my new sig.

It's very colorful, candy to my eyes.

 

[Spirst]

JUST ABOUT 2 MORE DAYS UNTIL WE CAN SEE FROGGER IN ALL HIS HD GLORY.

 

[BatShark]

But argh. These nerfs have totally jacked up my playstyle. I prefer approaching via peppering with shuriken and this increased ending lag makes that bluh. .-.

Yep. The WS lag nerf is actually the most noticeable change for me. It feels awful.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I can't wait.

 

[Spirst]

I can't wait.

Holy **** I forgot how real that thing looked. I need it in my life.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I know what'll cheer everyone up from this patch's negative funk. Cute art featuring the ninja frog!

Hurraaaaaaaaaay problems sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolved.

 

[joaoTforce]

greninja can be cool AND cute. His voice makes him sound like a dork. :3 Greninja's just awesome.

 

[Spirst]

greninja can be cool AND cute. His voice makes him sound like a dork. :3 Greninja's just awesome.

I think it's been established that Greninja is a Water/Dork type Pokemon.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

greninja can be cool AND cute. His voice makes him sound like a dork. :3 Greninja's just awesome.

I think it's been established that Greninja is a Water/Dork type Pokemon.

Agreed. Seriously how can you not like himmm

 

[mightychir]

Substitute Plush is...very tempting hahaha
http://www.amazon.com/Pokemon-Substitute-Plush-Toy-Whimsicott/dp/B00B49GU28

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I almost got one about 2 weeks ago. It's pretty adorable.

 

[jabronni]

I want to get that plush so I can throw it at my friends when I use substitute.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I have a good (or bad) habit of sneaking up on people or sneaking away from people. I want one so I can drop it while I sneak away.

 

[KERO]

So, I've been thinking of switching from Shadow Dash to Shadow Sneak lately. Given that Greninja now has a little more trouble killing now and Shadow Sneak's many buffs (only one of which Dash actually only kinda got), I'm thinking that Shadow Sneak is going to be more useful as a primary special over Dash. It allows for outright deadly mix-ups off stage, and I feel like it's going to be a lot harder to perceive Shadow Sneak in general on the Wii U (you have to really be paying attention rather than being immediately alerted by the giant circular shadow on the 3DS version). What do you guys think?

 

[FullMoon]

https://gfycat.com/GivingFlawedHowlermonkey

This is probably the most hilarious way I've had Hydro Pump backfire so far.

 

[Spirst]

https://gfycat.com/GivingFlawedHowlermonkey

This is probably the most hilarious way I've had Hydro Pump backfire so far.

I've been caped by Mario when trying to hydro pump. Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure why I did it in the first place. But yeah, went WAY up and there was the game.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I've been caped by Mario when trying to hydro pump. Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure why I did it in the first place. But yeah, went WAY up and there was the game.

That's happened to me before. Not a good feeling. x_x

 

[FullMoon]

Just for clarification, I actually won that match since I still had an extra stock when it happened. If it happened on my last stock I would probably be very frustrated, instead I just broke down laughing for a couple of minutes =P

 

[KERO]

Well, fellow Greninja mains, it's been a fun two weeks since I unlocked everything on the 3DS version. However, the Wii U version is now upon us, and I am obligated to finish everything on that as well. As you may expect, this task will take quite a bit of time, so it's unlikely you'll see me very often these next few weeks, but I will be back and ready to talk with you guys about match-ups, techniques, and everything else relating to Greninja.

But for now, see you all later!