The party of Irony

[Deleted member]

Link to original post: The party of Irony



Currently having 24 of the 150 seats in the Dutch House of Representatives (Second chamber),
the PVV has since it's founding been both a controversial and interesting party.

PVV stands for Party Of Freedom (in Dutch), however the party itself can not really be described
as having Freedom high on it's banner. It's founder, Geert Wilders, has since he split off from a
different party, been the sole and supreme ruler. He is the only "member" of the party (you can
only sign up as supporter), he has hand-picked and trained every single person now in parliament,
and none of said persons is allowed to have a standpoint on something unless approved by him.
Hero Brinkman, one of the PVV members has made a proposal to make the party more democratic
by establishing a Youth division, allow people to sing up as members and make standpoints of the
party actually negotiable.
This proposal has recently been unanimously been rejected by the party. This was also due to
circumstances at the time which I will discuss below.

So what does the party actually take as standpoints then?
The main 2 are anti-immigration (strongly anti-Islamic) and a very strict policy on Law & Order
(again taking a anti-Islamic standpoint).
The party also tries to ban the Koran and make a double passport illegal
It also has a standpoint concerning Economics but this has fluctuated a lot.
Especially his (Geert Wilders') standpoint on Law and Order has become the spotlight for a lot
of media attention in the past few weeks.
On 10 November, party member Eric Lucassen hit the news as he was reported to have been
terrorizing his neighbours. Lucassen denied all rumours. Investigation showed he was not telling
the truth. On November 11th, it came out that Lucassen has been convicted for "inappropriate
intercourse with a subordinate" during his work at the Dutch Royal Army in 2002.
Geert Wilders had now to decide if he would remove Lucassen from the party. This created a
problem as Lucassen could decide to not leave and thus form his 1 man party in the parliament.
This would remove the delicate majority (76 of the 150 seats) the cabinet the PVV is part of.
being a Friday, Wilders' decided t think and talk things over during the weekend.
On monday, Geert Wilder decided that he would not remove Lucassen from the party.
Wilder, who wants supermarket robbers to be shot in the kneecaps (no joke), did not remove a person convicted for sexual abuse from his party.
The story of the PVV does not end here, as soon news came out of other party members that having done.
The convictions (for lack of a better word) vary from misleading customers and driving under
influence, and from faking parts of a Curriculum vitae to forgery.
So far, only one party member (Sharpe) has left the party voluntarily.
All others have been allowed to stay in the party by Geert wilders.

By now I can honestly only laugh about this matter because it is very, very sad.

 

[Luxor]

It always amazes me how xenophobic Europeans are. I may be generalizing, but it seems to be the norm (if the media is to believed). I know Switzerland, where I'm moving in a month, banned the tower thingies whose name escapes me that mosques have. Pretty different from the American melting pot ideal.
I might be kind of naive about this stuff, but anyway.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

God dammit. It's ridiculous, but I honestly think Germany is the least Xenophobic european country right now. And we're still bad; if it wasn't for the "Nazi Stigmata", so to speak, we'd be on our way to laws like that as well.
But you have to remember, Europe is, essentially, being invaded by Arabs. At least, that's how a lot of the Europeans see it. Hell, the town I live in has a 33% Turkish population! It's pretty crazy. And with them, they bring their religion and morality, which many see as incredibly intolerant and extremist. Hell, the Islamic youth in England is getting "Talibanized" more and more, according to reports...

 

[Lord Chair]

It always amazes me how xenophobic Europeans are. I may be generalizing, but it seems to be the norm (if the media is to believed). I know Switzerland, where I'm moving in a month, banned the tower thingies whose name escapes me that mosques have. Pretty different from the American melting pot ideal.
I might be kind of naive about this stuff, but anyway.

Implying the States don't discriminate and hate (no srsly wtf, if you're not meaning to imply that please do say 'cause it's kind of the statement I'm interpreting from it).

Europe, influenced by the States' politics of fear, is trying to cope with the INEVITABLE anxiety about foreigners. Immigration has always been a sensitive subject and it has been an increasingly significant matter due to ongoing globalization. However, saying Europeans in general are xenophobic is, indeed, extremely generalizing. Europe has a long history on immigration and of course, it has had it's up and downs (mostly downs), same counts for the USA.

What you seem to be missing is the fact that the problems in Europe are all related to the Islam, rather than to immigration and foreigners as a whole. I don't have to explain how American international 'endeavors', or so to call them, have made the whole issue an issue in the first place. Entire world gets sucked in, everyone starts to care, whole story is self-explanatory.

Perhaps we're slightly xenophobic (to be honest, it's a natural thing), but relatively compared to any other continent?

Nah.

 

[Jim Morrison]

And then your 10-year-old little brother gets robbed off his Sinterklaas presents by a gang of five 10-year-old Moroccans coarsing at him, threatening to kill him and then destroy the present. Six years later, nothing has changed and they are still the aggressive ****monkeys they were then, and probably always will be. And then there's so many more of those kids. This is when I start to wonder wether the PVV is actually a "wrong" party, and if they're actually right.

Don't get me wrong, I really adore the first generation of immigrants, I know a lot of them are nice, work hard and are good additions to Dutch society. But the problem is the new generation that was born here, almost terrorizing their neighbourhood. Useless ****s, never do ****.

I know there's also nice ones, but sadly, I never see those (except Chair, knuffelmarokkaan) **** it, they don't exist.


I'll vote PVV later on.

EDIT: About being xenophobic: If an alien race mixes with humans, creating alien off-spring where half of them are useless ****wads to society, wouldn't you just want them out as well?
Maybe it would be xenophobic if we never had them intergrated with society, but that's not the case. It's been happening for a long while, and personally, I don't like it so I just want 'em to **** off.

 

[Deleted member]

Guus would you be so kind not to generalise like that? I know you're pretty much writing up how most, if not all, PVV voters think (which is 15% of our population), but you're still generalising.

The petition in Switzerland against minarets gained a 57.5% majority. The petition was held after there were a total of FOUR minarets in the entire country, and posters such as the following were used:

(STOP, yes for minaret prohibition)
Initially the government agreed to the petition but this was later overturned.
Some recent time a poll was held in Switzerland if non-native Swiss should lose their passport when they would commit a crime (any crime). Again a majority was in favour of this.

Recently in France thousands of Gypsies have been deported to Romania. It was pretty much bulldozer over the trailer park and the people were put on a one way plane ride. No premature notice or anything. I can't find any numbers on the opinion of the French on this matter but a large group was in favour of it.

Besides all the stupid stuff that happened internally in the PVV, They are pretty much the most Xenophobic party in Europe right now, with Geert Wilders making a movie (Fitna) in which he tries to show people why the Islam is evil and calls all Muslims to burn or tear up their Koran in it. He tried to go to London to show his movie to a right wing party there at some point. He went to the Anti-Mosque demonstrations in NYC to give speech there, and is of the opinion that the Islam is an ideology so he is not bound by the freedom of religion law (and thus can insult it as much as he want).
(I keep saying Wilder and not PVV since none except one has ever done anything, and that one being Martin Bosma writing a book on the matter)

So yes, Xenophobia is an increasingly "popular" thing in Europe, which is sad.

 

[Luxor]

Implying the States don't discriminate and hate (no srsly wtf, if you're not meaning to imply that please do say 'cause it's kind of the statement I'm interpreting from it).

I was talking about the IDEAL. In real life of course there's racial violence and discrimination and hatred, but if you watch children's cartoons like Schoolhouse Rock or something you see the melting pot ideal.

Americans are xenophobic to an extent as well (enter Mexico) but the IDEAL citizen is racially tolerant.

 

[Teran]

And then your 10-year-old little brother gets robbed off his Sinterklaas presents by a gang of five 10-year-old Moroccans coarsing at him, threatening to kill him and then destroy the present. Six years later, nothing has changed and they are still the aggressive ****monkeys they were then, and probably always will be. And then there's so many more of those kids. This is when I start to wonder wether the PVV is actually a "wrong" party, and if they're actually right.

Don't get me wrong, I really adore the first generation of immigrants, I know a lot of them are nice, work hard and are good additions to Dutch society. But the problem is the new generation that was born here, almost terrorizing their neighbourhood. Useless ****s, never do ****.

I know there's also nice ones, but sadly, I never see those (except Chair, knuffelmarokkaan) **** it, they don't exist.


I'll vote PVV later on.

EDIT: About being xenophobic: If an alien race mixes with humans, creating alien off-spring where half of them are useless ****wads to society, wouldn't you just want them out as well?
Maybe it would be xenophobic if we never had them intergrated with society, but that's not the case. It's been happening for a long while, and personally, I don't like it so I just want 'em to **** off.

I had to resist making a wisecrack about Dutch and bigot being synonymous being a mod and all, then I saw this post and lol'd so hard.

But to be fair Guus does have a point. Tolerance is cool and all, but all tolerance is about is not hating an individual purely for what they are. Hating people for what they do, now that's 100% legit, and to be quite frank, the immigrant wave of recent years causes so many problems. You have Moroccans, we have Somalians among so many others.

****'s not cash.

But then again I guess it could be deemed unfair to tell refugees to gtfo, but on the other hand it's the government's country so they have no need to accommodate for another country being a dump.

Too much ramblin'

 

[Deleted member]

Obviously you can hate on a person for what they do but extrapolating and then hating on the entire ethnic group which such individuals are part of is wrong.

this part of Guus' post therefore annoyed me:

**** it, they don't exist.

 

[Lord Chair]

@Guss

Saying I'm one of them and immediately stating they don't exist seems quite contradictory.

In fact, I have no idea whether or not to take you seriously now, I figure you did a nice job trolling me then, even if that wasn't your intention.

That put aside, I don't like Moroccans either even though half of my family is one. Of course preference is preference, I just don't like Moroccans because I think the culture is a tad silly. That put aside, noted problems are noteworthy, but spearheading a fix by being all islamophobic is really stupid as well. If you want to introduce rules with which to counter the problems mentioned, try having them apply to every immigrant instead of just the Islamic ones. Kinda like Rutte stating having both the Turkish and Dutch nationality should warrant a ban from the parliament, while having a Swedish/Dutch nationality would not be a problem at all.

 

[Laem]

We're ****ies
unlike the swiss

Commit crime
Get deported
eaaaaaazy

oh wow, cant believe they censured the kitten synonym

 

[El Nino]

The worst part about xenophobia is that you have no choice which side of the line you stand on when someone else draws it. And they will draw it. This is how race wars begin. Someone makes a mistake while wearing your face, ultimately you will pay the price for a transgression you had no control over. And you will not be able to switch sides, change positions, or back out and remain neutral. Race and ethnic origins are not ideological stances that can be altered. And more times than not, it is a label put upon you by someone else. This removes your control over the situation entirely.

And when things escalate, you will have no choice but to side with your own, as it is ridiculous to expect mercy from the other side.

Life for an immigrant has never been easy. It is worse for refugees, who are also immigrants but who also carry the extra burden of being in a position of having fled from intolerable living conditions, often from a government with a gun to your back, meaning that the migration itself was not voluntary. Many escape the wars only to die in camps or live on in poverty in a foreign land whose rules and culture are incomprehensible.

Part of the problem may be this ideal of the melting pot itself. It is too close for most people to bear, both immigrant and non-immigrant alike. That is why immigrants form their own communities. But maybe Robert Frost said it best, "Good fences make good neighbors." Respect the boundary, but leave a door open. Engage in dialogue from where you feel safe. But remember to communicate. And when your neighbor knocks on your door, open it. One day, you may need someone to open a door for you too.

We have intercontinental ballistic missiles that can strike any location in the world. Almost anyone can kill anyone else. There's no hiding anymore. Either we learn to talk and accept each other, or this little freak show of Homo sapiens sapiens ends.

And if it does end, I'll take my last cigarette with a beer and watch from a lawn chair as the whole sorry mess burns to the ground.

Human social evolution trails behind technological evolution by centuries. No matter what they say about the interconnectedness of the digital age, the old tribalism still remains, and we on this planet, the ones most capable of understanding one another, will never meet.

/not cynical, just very tired, and I'm not even sure what I'm talking about anymore

 

[Z'zgashi]

lol ***

Spoiler

<3

 

[Xyless]

Whenever I think of immigration in any form, I think of Children of Men.

Which was a depressing movie about that.