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The point is, Meta Knight is decent in SSB4, but not balanced AT ALL, lets face, it imagine a Yoshi vs Meta Knight scenario right here. If he had a little bit more range, more then the tip of his sword, he would then be balanced, plus his lag from his moves already make him bad, so that's a weakness you can then hit if theres a Meta Knight with long range, not to mention he's from Sakurai's game he made.
Don't be hating. Sm4sh MK's super legit. Someone more experienced will probably post something better than I can come up with tomorrow, but whatever.
Hes fun to use, but im just saying, he got over nerfed imo.
Get better.
Do FG online with Meta Knight, come back with the results.
?
First of all, For Glory isn't an accurate depiction of a characters ability to perform in tournament play.
Im just saying this, he has no kill power, meaning opponents can come in and get a lot of DMG, its not really easy to land a up-B kill, especially when its too fast, the only kill move I see from him is down-b and forward smash. Im not doing a argument, neither are you, im not saying anything bad about you, im just saying most of his moves have more lag and are easy to punish.'
I'm sorry, but if you think MK was "ruined" in Sm4sh and wasn't already in Brawl... you just suck. Shuttle Loop is stupid easy to land. Fsmash isn't reliable. Dcape also isn't something to rely on for kills. You might want to check this out, it's really good. This thread doesn't need to be bumped, so if you want to argue, PM me.
You really had to start a flame.
In regards to the ledge game, Meta Knight lost out on of his previous strengths because of the changes, but this doesn't necessarily make the character bad. Meta Knight still has 6 jumps and relatively decent aerials. It's difficult to gimp compared to before, but that goes for everyone else as well. All this means is that you need to apply different tactics than before, such as footstooling, or rely more on edge guard reads then edge gimps.
His kill moves are not bad. Forward smash is good for reads, and Nair KO's really well. Up B can also still KO really easily, you just have to be conservative with it's use and weigh your options on whether or not to spam it as a combo ender for damage, or save it for the kill. Opting for other options like Tornado, Uair, or Usmash. Keeping the decay list in mind is important. Saying Meta Knight's kill moves are pretty bad is wrong in my opinion, especially when one of them links out of his dash attack.
His aerials are not top tier, but they are good. The mere fact that he has a disjointed hitbox on a Kirby size hurtbox makes them good. His aerials suffer from more lag than they did in Brawl, but the lag suffered is fine relative to the overall roster. Meta Knight's air speed is also better in this game. I have a few questions regarding aerial interactions with projectiles. In my opinion, Brawl Meta Knight's laser priorty aerials in part a weakness because they interacted poorly with projectiles, and it only helped him in specific instances (like versus other Meta Knight), so his aerials may or may not have improved if this was removed.
Jab is a circumstantial move from what I can see. I think forward tilt will be better in most cases. That being said, I'm sure it will have niche uses. Niche moves are fine. I mean as long as forward tilt acts as a jab for Meta Knight I honestly don't see the problem. This was the same in Brawl too.
You're crazy if you think Meta Knight's Utilt has little usage just because of the area it covers. If you're playing Meta Knight, you should be trying to play on platform stages, and Utilt is excellent here. It also beats out a large majority of moves from descending opponents. Forward tilt acts as a jab replacement. It doesn't need to have crazy range given how fast it is.
I've bothered to comment to create transparency on your criticisms. That isn't to say everything you've highlight is entirely wrong. But that isn't the point. Characters are allowed to have weaknesses. Where this perception comes from that Meta Knight is 'not good' is from relative value. Are his weaknesses more apparent than his strengths? Yes, he's bad against projectiles, but does that really matter much compared to everything else he has? He doesn't have the best jab in the game, but does he need it? These questions are pertinent and need to be analyzed. For now, I just see people complaining about the nerfs relative to his previous, overpowered self, akin to the way people complain about champions being nerfed in League of Legends when the patch notes hit, even though that champion is still blatantly overpowered anyway.
Gimping is however a pretty big deal for a character like Meta Knight, since it counts as a significant amount of his kills, which is why the character is overall designed with less kill moves. It's an unfair comparison to say that everyone else have difficulties gimping, when it really wasn't their speciality to begin with. He is arguably worse at both edge defenses, because of his lack of meteor and aforementioned weaknesses.
Every Fsmash is good for reads. That's a pretty weak argument for a smash with such a long wind up time and short range as Meta Knight's. Nair's KO potential is great outside the stage, but that's where it ends. The majority of moves kill people with high %'s outside of the stage. Up B is a great KO move, I wont deny that and i've said so earlier. You cannot expect people not to use Up B to avoid the dimishing effect when Up B stands for the majority of your combos though.
Not to nitpick, but you keep saying "good". If I am not completely mistaken, good implies that something is above average. Would you say Meta Knight's areals is overall better than the average character? What does it mean when you say the lag is fine relative to the rooster? I cannot speak for every character here, so correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't most(if not all?) characters have at least one areal with short landing lag, giving them some spacing option in the air -> ground?
In other words, Meta Knight's jab could have been simply deleted from the game, since it serves no purpose because ftilt covers everything it does. Just because it was the same in brawl doesn't make it valid.
Never did I complain about characters having weaknesses, but I do believe it's apparent that Meta Knight's cons outweighs his pros. Why say best jab in the game? I am pointing out that his jab is so bad that it's turned into an actual downside. I was in no way happy with the old Meta Knight being unbelievably broken and I am happy he was nerfed, it was simply overdone. Again, that is yet to see, but unless more balance patches are planned, I fear that the majority of tournaments is going to consist of ninjas, girls in tights and apes.
Meta Knight has essentially no recovery on forward smash, making it a much safer option. You can't honestly believe every forward smash being good for reads is a solid argument can you? There's a risk/reward ratio to consider whenever you attempt a read, and Meta Knight has a much larger room for error, making that risk/reward ratio in his favor. Comparing his forward smash to someone like Ike's is silly.
His aerials as a stand alone are not better than the average character, but the way they work with his hitbox size and speed puts him above an average character. The lag on his aerials are long enough to the point where you can't spam them or make unsafe hits on shield, but good enough that if you space well or weave well in the air you won't get punished. Keep in mind that Meta Knight has 6 jumps and good ground game, so half the time you won't be in situations where you're incurring that landing lag. Meta Knight could SHFFL Fair and Bair in Brawl; you won't be doing that here.
I'm remaining open about his jab since it might have application I am not readily seeing. However, even assuming it serves no purpose, this doesn't augment your argument. It doesn't make him a worse character.
Well agree to disagree. I think you're being myopic.
Meta Knight has little room for error regarding his forward smash. Sure, you can blindly spam it into the air, but that is never going to grant you a hit because of the lackluster range. Most of the time, you are trying to read a roll, which in most cases are going to leave you open like the rest of the cast. In other words, you've sacrificed damage, range, speed and width on your smash, to be able to recover slightly faster. Wouldn't call it a good Fsmash by any means, it's pretty average. Don't pull out the worst possible examples like ike everytime to fit your agument. I might as well call his Fsmash completely worthless by comparing it to Marth's, which is not fair at all.
I'll admit they are very safe to use defensively. As in spacing backwards and spamming your fair for example, dealing a grand total of 2 damage if you manage to whiff them. That's more or less it. There is nothing amazing in that, you can keep them away from you, but they deal so little damage and are incapable of any follow up to each other. Neither can you apply pressure to an opponent, because of the previously mentioned landing lag on all of them. It baffles me how you can imply they are strong, even in conjunction with how meta knight works.
If the ftilt covers literally everything the jab does, in speed, damage, knockback and trumps it in safety. There is literally no reason to have the jab, since it only allows you to missclick and use an inferior jab. So in theory, it does weaken him, if ever so negligible it is. Nitpicking though, I just want the jab to have a purpose.
Naturally.
Try fighting fox. I just played around 40 matches in FG. Pretty interesting fighting a character with no lag on any moves, with your most important combo / kill move not working. (dthrow into upB)
May as well give Meta Knight Roy's center of blade is where the powerful hits come from since you basically have to do that anyway to do any damage whatsoever.
His moves are pretty punishable and are easy to attack first-headed, the lag and attack power makes sense, but lowering the range just doesn't fit right, he has low attack right now, why would sakurai lower his range if he already has poor attack power? a attack from sonic doing 4 attacks on Mario takes up around 30%, but for meta knight it takes 6 attacks to get to 30% by standard attacks.
THIS GUY KNOWS WHATS UP
Eh. At least you give reasons.
Judging from this quote, your other comments, and the time you joined smashboards, I feel you have little information to what you're talking about as far as MK in Brawl. Let me put it clear to you: MK was a super OP character. All of his aerial moves (except Backair and probably fair) were near lagless (seriously, 3 short hop uairs. wut LOL). ALL of his sword swipes/attacks were transendent/had huge priority, and was rarely ever beaten. I mean, why even use the drill when you have spammable tornados with huge priority, quick Dsmash kills that gots knockback (and spammable), and Up B + glide attack that can't punish you? MK was nuts (and Up Bing out of shield was safe). Too. Broken.
They have it in mind, but some (or at least Wonder) seems to have little idea on the buffs MK got, as well as how MK was in Brawl
There's no such thing as a god tier character right now. There isn't even a top/high tier character right now. Game's still fresh. People feel that Diddy kong is a problem. Come time, people will find ways to beat Diddy Kong and they will flock over to a different character. Shiek's been nerfed a bit this patch (but still gots good neutrals). Lucario and Sonic I'm unsure about, but like any chharacter, they can be figured out and dealt with once the person learns the matchup. A lot of characters in the game are balanced to a degree. some of them excels in one situation while others excel in another.
I assume by Dthrow you mean running grab. He has the best dash attack in the game. Safe on shield when spaced correctly, multiple followups at most percents, relatively fast, and it's even a kill setup. Speed and range wise, he also has the best running grab in the game. idk what you're talking about with the last three. Not really stuff you should be approaching with...
Yet you're here, polluting the threads with these negative talks and comments as opposed to just contributing ways on how people can improve the matchup. It makes little to no sense.
