The One Chop Technique?

[Darklink401]

Wait a second. I just noticed something. To me it looks like he only chopped it normally, but as soon as Sonic hit it with his spin dash, it started falling as if it was chopped twice! Anyone else see it that way? Usually when I do the One-Chop, the tree is cut all the way through instantly, but it doesn't look like it happened that way in this video.

From the shape of the chop, its clear it only took 1 chop to take it down. Sonic's spindash probably just got stuck in hitlag for a second, making it seem like it was hitting the tree and chopping it.

 

[Sonsa]

I hope this hasn't been patched out on the 3DS version? I can't really check right now, but... I doubt it, it doesn't even seem very well known about. And it's very inconsistent.

 

[Darklink401]

I hope this hasn't been patched out on the 3DS version? I can't really check right now, but... I doubt it, it doesn't even seem very well known about. And it's very inconsistent.

If it was intentional, I doubt it.

I can test it tho.

 

[Sonsa]

If it was intentional, I doubt it.

I can test it tho.

I still can't be sure if it was intentional. On one hand, there's a model of the tree where it's cleanly chopped. Not even an indent on whatever side you chopped from. But I dunno, maybe that model was added as a just-in-case sort of measure if the game couldn't figure out what happened. There's that hidden Palutena's Guidance as a just-in-case measure, so who knows?
Well yeah, some confirmation would be appreciated!

 

[Darklink401]

If it has a different model, then I'm actually pretty sure that that weak point was added on purpose. Has to be. They couldnt just make one part of the tree weaker for accidentally, could they? o.o

 

[Sonsa]

If it has a different model, then I'm actually pretty sure that that weak point was added on purpose. Has to be. They couldnt just make one part of the tree weaker for accidentally, could they? o.o

Well I'm not sure that's how it works! I still don't know if there's some sort of strange occurrence with hitboxes, why would it be intentional? It's sorta overpowered! Is it to be like G&W's 9? This isn't nearly as random, with enough practice someone could get this consistently. I really think we need someone with access to frame data and files or whatever to give us a clearer idea.

 

[Darklink401]

It's definitely overpowered, because the tree is like a strong smash attack xD

And its not random, moreso, right now we're getting kinda lucky, but we do know HOW to achieve it.

its hard tho ;-;

 

[Sonsa]

It's definitely overpowered, because the tree is like a strong smash attack xD

And its not random, moreso, right now we're getting kinda lucky, but we do know HOW to achieve it.

its hard tho ;-;

That's what I'm saying though, Sakurai only intentionally adds something sorta overpowered if it's random, like Luigi's Green Missle or G&W's 9. This isn't random, you could potentially train to get it consistently. And it's not like there's a huge punishment if you miss either, like Jiggz's rest or Mac's KO Punch.
It's a really... hard, but overpowered move. Just doesn't seem like Sakurai's style? I don't know! At this point, we've theorized plenty, I want answers. I don't wanna just go ahead and ask Sakurai himself, he may remove it if it is accidental, we really need someone to look at some files or somethin.

 

[Darklink401]

That's what I'm saying though, Sakurai only intentionally adds something sorta overpowered if it's random, like Luigi's Green Missle or G&W's 9. This isn't random, you could potentially train to get it consistently. And it's not like there's a huge punishment if you miss either, like Jiggz's rest or Mac's KO Punch.
It's a really... hard, but overpowered move. Just doesn't seem like Sakurai's style? I don't know! At this point, we've theorized plenty, I want answers. I don't wanna just go ahead and ask Sakurai himself, he may remove it if it is accidental, we really need someone to look at some files or somethin.

Well keep in mind, he DOES add things that have to do with precision, such as Falcon's knee and Zelda's fair and bair~ ;3

 

[Sonsa]

Well keep in mind, he DOES add things that have to do with precision, such as Falcon's knee and Zelda's fair and bair~ ;3

Well of course but that's not nearly as hidden as this might be! And at least the knee had significant endlag, whereas this...doesn't have much at all. And the tree could kill a lot earlier! Just doesn't seem... balanced. Sakurai really did a great job with giving everything a strength and a weakness this time. This is just sorta... all strength. Surprise (cause player will expect two chops), power, range, not a lot of start or endlag, this just doesn't seem intentional...seems like if it was there would be a tip in the game like "If you have perfect aim Villager's tree can actually go down in one chop! This'll make your opponents want to leaf for sure."

 

[Darklink401]

Well of course but that's not nearly as hidden as this might be! And at least the knee had significant endlag, whereas this...doesn't have much at all. And the tree could kill a lot earlier! Just doesn't seem... balanced. Sakurai really did a great job with giving everything a strength and a weakness this time. This is just sorta... all strength. Surprise (cause player will expect two chops), power, range, not a lot of start or endlag, this just doesn't seem intentional...seems like if it was there would be a tip in the game like "If you have perfect aim Villager's tree can actually go down in one chop! This'll make your opponents want to leaf for sure."

I think the balance here is that its ridiculously hard to pull off consistently, and that Villager's tree, regardless of if 1 or 2-chop, DOES take time to grow.

So while the strength is there, the preparation for it, and the fact you still need to get your enemy close, is still balancing it, imo.

You wouldn't agree? =o

 

[Sonsa]

I think the balance here is that its ridiculously hard to pull off consistently, and that Villager's tree, regardless of if 1 or 2-chop, DOES take time to grow.

So while the strength is there, the preparation for it, and the fact you still need to get your enemy close, is still balancing it, imo.

You wouldn't agree? =o

Sure... but then why have the 2 chop at all if all the preparation balances the one chop enough? Why even have the one chop if the two chop seems fair? And that's it too - it's hard, not random or anything. So with enough training someone could consistently get the one chop. I just don't get it. If you just have the one-chop then it's sorta kinda like rest being very strong but ya need good precision. And also if intentional, I dont understand why it wouldnt be mentioned at all. This was discovered by accident.
I dunno, I think any way we put it, anythings possible and theres really no use discussing it much more. We need more concrete facts. Hitbox data. Stuff like that. Hopefully someday I can pull it off in a Nintendo sponsered tourney and ask about it, but I fear it could be patched out. But maybe thats fair?

 

[Darklink401]

Sure... but then why have the 2 chop at all if all the preparation balances the one chop enough? Why even have the one chop if the two chop seems fair? And that's it too - it's hard, not random or anything. So with enough training someone could consistently get the one chop. I just don't get it. If you just have the one-chop then it's sorta kinda like rest being very strong but ya need good precision. And also if intentional, I dont understand why it wouldnt be mentioned at all. This was discovered by accident.
I dunno, I think any way we put it, anythings possible and theres really no use discussing it much more. We need more concrete facts. Hitbox data. Stuff like that. Hopefully someday I can pull it off in a Nintendo sponsered tourney and ask about it, but I fear it could be patched out. But maybe thats fair?

Nonono, don't mention it o3o lol

Lets just learn how to do it consistently and be happy killing things xD

 

[Tusca]

Wait a second. I just noticed something. To me it looks like he only chopped it normally, but as soon as Sonic hit it with his spin dash, it started falling as if it was chopped twice! Anyone else see it that way? Usually when I do the One-Chop, the tree is cut all the way through instantly, but it doesn't look like it happened that way in this video.

From what I've tried, when you follow the method shown in the video, it actually has some delay before it starts falling

 

[LyonDRC]

Wait a second. I just noticed something. To me it looks like he only chopped it normally, but as soon as Sonic hit it with his spin dash, it started falling as if it was chopped twice! Anyone else see it that way? Usually when I do the One-Chop, the tree is cut all the way through instantly, but it doesn't look like it happened that way in this video.

It has nothing to do with Sonic, everytime I've got the One-Chop Trick on ground the fall has been a bit delayed.

And also, this isn't as overpowered as Little Mac's 1-hit-KO, Mr. Game & Watch's Judgement Level 9 or Jigglypuff's Rest. Villager's tree won't kill unless your opponent is at high percentages, we also have to take in mind that this isn't easy to pull of and most likely people will be able to react in time and block before the tree hits them.

But don't misread my words. This technique will definitely be useful, just not as overpowered as you think. It'll be really useful on upgrading Villager's tricky playstyle levels ahead and hold a good space of the stage.

 

[LyonDRC]

We also need to remember the fact that you still need to plant the sappling and water it before you can start cutting it down. This is not an attack that comes fast and can be used whenever an opportunity appears, you have to prepare it beforehand and hope to trick the other person on getting into the attack's range.

 

[Darklink401]

It has nothing to do with Sonic, everytime I've got the One-Chop Trick on ground the fall has been a bit delayed.

And also, this isn't as overpowered as Little Mac's 1-hit-KO, Mr. Game & Watch's Judgement Level 9 or Jigglypuff's Rest. Villager's tree won't kill unless your opponent is at high percentages, we also have to take in mind that this isn't easy to pull of and most likely people will be able to react in time and block before the tree hits them.

But don't misread my words. This technique will definitely be useful, just not as overpowered as you think. It'll be really useful on upgrading Villager's tricky playstyle levels ahead and hold a good space of the stage.

Villager's tree kills at mid-percents.

Also, it has worked for me well, there are some advanced players that will wait for the second chop to use a counter, like Vision, but then when they try to do that, they will get nailed.

 

[Sonsa]

Alright, alright, it isn't overpowered, it's just a really strong surprise mix-up... Still not sure if it's intentional though. Hopefully someday we can truly understand why this technique...exists and what makes it work. Understanding that can help us execute it more frequently.

 

[LyonDRC]

I stand corrected. It seems Timber kills between 65% - 85% depending on the character weight. But I still don't think it's really overpowered and here's why.

- Comparison with Little Mac's 1-hit-KO
Disadvantages: Unlike Timber, this moves will kill you as soon as 10% (estimate) even on heavyweights, it's unblockable, it comes really fast (which makes it hard to react to) and can be combo'd with d-tilt on low percentages.

Advantages: Little Mac's 1-hit-KO needs the bar to fill up per us, whether you hit the target or not. Though Timber has something similar going since the tree will die after a couple of seconds and you'll need to plant another one.

- Comparison with Mr. Game & Watch's Judgement
Disadvantages: Judgement Lv.9 is a 1-hit-KO guaranteed as far as I know (though heavyweights might survive it at 0% and with perfect DI). Judgement can be combo'd with down throw at mid-percentages and it comes really fast.

Advantages: Judgement is completely random so a Lv9 isn't guaranteed.

- Comparison with Jigglypuff's Rest
Disadvantages: Jigglypuff's Rest kills around the same percentages as Timber (if not earlier). Rest keeps damaging the opponent even if they don't kill it.

Advantages: Rest sends upwards and Jiggs stays asleep for a while which makes it easy to punish if missed or if the opponent survives/respawns fast.

The previous comparison are taken from the Timber perspective, meaning that it is "Disadvantages towards..." and "Advantages toward..." Also, I'm talking as if it were in a competitive stage.

- So, why do I think the One-Chop Trick isn't overpowered?
While Timber is a strong move, it still needs to be planted and watered before you can cut it down, which makes this move pretty situational. In other words, it's hard to force the enemy into the move's range.

The attack itself also isn't as fast as one would like and relies completely on the element of surprise. The attack is by no means slow, but it still gives enough time for people to react and block, evade, or whatever. You mentioned that people usually expect it to be a double chop attack, but that's because the trick isn't widely known. Once people learn more about it it'll become more known and people will start expecting the One-Chop Trick.

In theory it sounds like an overpowered ledge attack. It's like the Bowling Ball but with more range! But you still need to take in the fact that if you don't have it plant it or watered, you'll have to perform them before being able to cut the tree. The opponent will realize you're trying to edge guard him and recover fast or high.

I'm not saying the move is bad, just not overpowered. I also want to take this time to say that I don't consider the other moves I talked about overpowered either.

 

[Darklink401]

I stand corrected. It seems Timber kills between 65% - 85% depending on the character weight. But I still don't think it's really overpowered and here's why.
- Comparison with Little Mac's 1-hit-KO
Disadvantages: Unlike Timber, this moves will kill you as soon as 10% (estimate) even on heavyweights, it's unblockable, it comes really fast (which makes it hard to react to) and can be combo'd with d-tilt on low percentages.

Advantages: Little Mac's 1-hit-KO needs the bar to fill up per us, whether you hit the target or not. Though Timber has something similar going since the tree will die after a couple of seconds and you'll need to plant another one.

- Comparison with Mr. Game & Watch's Judgement
Disadvantages: Judgement Lv.9 is a 1-hit-KO guaranteed as far as I know (though heavyweights might survive it at 0% and with perfect DI). Judgement can be combo'd with down throw at mid-percentages and it comes really fast.

Advantages: Judgement is completely random so a Lv9 isn't guaranteed.

- Comparison with Jigglypuff's Rest
Disadvantages: Jigglypuff's Rest kills around the same percentages as Timber (if not earlier). Rest keeps damaging the opponent even if they don't kill it.

Advantages: Rest sends upwards and Jiggs stays asleep for a while which makes it easy to punish if missed or if the opponent survives/respawns fast.

The previous comparison are taken from the Timber perspective, meaning that it is "Disadvantages towards..." and "Advantages toward..." Also, I'm talking as if it were in a competitive stage.
- So, why do I think the One-Chop Trick isn't overpowered?
While Timber is a strong move, it still needs to be planted and watered before you can cut it down, which makes this move pretty situational. In other words, it's hard to force the enemy into the move's range.

The attack itself also isn't as fast as one would like and relies completely on the element of surprise. The attack is by no means slow, but it still gives enough time for people to react and block, evade, or whatever. You mentioned that people usually expect it to be a double chop attack, but that's because the trick isn't widely known. Once people learn more about it it'll become more known and people will start expecting the One-Chop Trick.

In theory it sounds like an overpowered ledge attack. It's like the Bowling Ball but with more range! But you still need to take in the fact that if you don't have it plant it or watered, you'll have to perform them before being able to cut the tree. The opponent will realize you're trying to edge guard him and recover fast or high.

I'm not saying the move is bad, just not overpowered. I also want to take this time to say that I don't consider the other moves I talked about overpowered either.

1. Timber doesn't kill as early as KO Punch, but KO punch needs to charge up, and is lost by being attacked. One could say that for the tree, but believe me, if Little Mac could recharge his KO meter every time he had a few seconds to himself, KO Punch would be a lot better. Also KO Punch doesnt act as a shield from projectiles, and Timber has a MASSIVE hitbox, and even deceptive to some degree.

2. Comparing timber to 9-hammer is like comparing Pikachu's down B and Bowser's fsmash. They're both used in completely different situations. And I'd rather bait my opponent into my attack, rather than do a combo that has a 1/9 chance of working. Also it's not a 0% kill, but its close to it. Still, timber can kill at a VERY early percent regardless.

3. Rest leaves Jiggly WIDE open. After a death by timber, your opponent can't punish you. After a rest respawn, unless you're lucky enough to get a star KO, your opponent WILL punish you. In fact, if Rest idoesnt kill, due to perfect DI + scraping living percentages, your opponent can also come down and punish you.


And I realize you touched on these points, but I feel you aren't giving timber enough credit where its due, despite knowing these points. It can't be compared to those three moves, because it stands out on its own, even alongside these moves.


Now about the whole planting thing:

1. You can sprinkle the sapling with water, without making the tree grow. This will make it so that next time you water it, tree will sprout IMMEDIATELY. Tree also stays out for 30 seconds, giving ample cutting time.

2. Let people know about the one-chop, who cares? That just means they will have to be more wary about which way they approach when we plant the tree.


Is this the best thing ever? No.

Does it stand along side the 9s, the KO Punches, and the Rests? I'd say, most definitely.

 

[LyonDRC]

I just want to point that out that I never said the other 3 moves were similar or better than Timber, I was only comparing them since they are all powerful moves that are known to be fear. None of these attacks are OP and Timber stans asides them, that was all I was going for.

 

[Darklink401]

I just want to point that out that I never said the other 3 moves were similar or better than Timber, I was only comparing them since they are all powerful moves that are known to be fear. None of these attacks are OP and Timber stans asides them, that was all I was going for.

But timber is better

Cuz it saves the environment

Even if for just 30 seconds.

 

[LyonDRC]

But timber is better

Cuz it saves the environment

Even if for just 30 seconds.

Okay, you win this. Why I didn't thought of that before!?

EVERYONE, USE VILLAGER AND SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT!

 

[Darklink401]

Okay, you win this. Why I didn't thought of that before!?

EVERYONE, USE VILLAGER AND SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT!

Fox's up B burns fossil fuels.

Villager uses environmentally-friendly air balloons.

 

[Tusca]

Made the trick on For Glory.
You would like to notice that I actually missed him because I got him with the axe.
Anyhow, it's yet another video that could help understanding the tech

 

[Sonsa]

For what it's worth - I tested this technique on Villager's customs. It also works on his Timber Counter and but I've yet to pull it off on Super Timber. As you can imagine, the timings a little different. Super Timber's tree hurtbox is larger and axe is slower while Timber Counter's axe is just faster. It probably works on all of them, but the Super Timber's timing, Ive yet to get it.

 

[AnchorTea]

Has anybody mentioned how the sliced body looks like it was straight chop?

If this is an exploit, then there is no way that would appear.

Was this intentional?! Damn Sakurai. You scary.

 

[Cheers]

I am so envious of you guys. I haven't even been able to do this once yet lol

 

[Darklink401]

I am so envious of you guys. I haven't even been able to do this once yet lol

Do not fret.

It is difficult.

But oh so satisfying.

 

[LyonDRC]

Has anybody mentioned how the sliced body looks like it was straight chop?

If this is an exploit, then there is no way that would appear.

Was this intentional?! Damn Sakurai. You scary.

Yeah we discussed that before xD We called it the Perfect Cut or something like that I think.

I am so envious of you guys. I haven't even been able to do this once yet lol

Just keep practicing! Use the videos and images as guide, it helps a lot! :D

 

[LyonDRC]

For what it's worth - I tested this technique on Villager's customs. It also works on his Timber Counter and but I've yet to pull it off on Super Timber. As you can imagine, the timings a little different. Super Timber's tree hurtbox is larger and axe is slower while Timber Counter's axe is just faster. It probably works on all of them, but the Super Timber's timing, Ive yet to get it.

If it works on the giant Timber, that'd be scary!

 

[AnchorTea]

Oh my gosh I just did it.

 

[AnchorTea]

I just did it again by sprinting into it.

This the fourth time I was able to do it by sprinting in to it.

 

[Sonsa]

If it works on the giant Timber, that'd be scary!

I'll keep trying!

I just did it again by sprinting into it.

This the fourth time I was able to do it by sprinting in to it.

Congrats! Sprinting right in there, huh? Hm. This tech is weird.

 

[AnchorTea]

I'll keep trying!

Congrats! Sprinting right in there, huh? Hm. This tech is weird.

One weird thing is that it was succesful when I didn't stop sprinting, or atleast I think I stopped.. (When you hear the tire scraping noise. "Eeerr!")

 

[Sonsa]

One weird thing is that it was succesful when I didn't stop sprinting, or atleast I think I stopped.. (When you hear the tire scraping noise. "Eeerr!")

Well if you ran and then immediately axed, I think that makes sense, as that sound effect only happens when you turn or just stop I think.

 

[antonio1982gonzo]

es un dato muy interesante, espero poder aprender bien la técnica, es el momento de practicar :DDD!!

 

[MadCanard]

Finally happened to me. Completely on accident. Hope this gif helps the cause.

http://gfycat.com/NimbleSentimentalAsiansmallclawedotter

Like most others I ran into the tree, let the tree stop my momentum without going through it and chopped. There seems to a "bounce" effect that happens when you run into the tree. There's a moment where you can either keep pressing forward and break past the tree or you can let go of the control stick and the tree will push you back towards the side you started. It seems using the axe at that "bounce" spot might be key.

 

[Darklink401]

Finally happened to me. Completely on accident. Hope this gif helps the cause.

http://gfycat.com/NimbleSentimentalAsiansmallclawedotter

Like most others I ran into the tree, let the tree stop my momentum without going through it and chopped. There seems to a "bounce" effect that happens when you run into the tree. There's a moment where you can either keep pressing forward and break past the tree or you can let go of the control stick and the tree will push you back towards the side you started. It seems using the axe at that "bounce" spot might be key.

Holy crap, I didn't even see you chop.

Tree went down really fast, too o.o

 

[CreaminFreeman]

I was able to get this to happen a few times while playing during a break at work while playing against a CPU and a couple of times in training mode. Still haven't been able to get it done while playing against a person yet.
Unbelievable timing/spacing required for this. I really hope someone with ample amounts of time and skill has a chance to tackle this one.