The Official Thread For the Sal Romano/Gematsu Leak

[Noiblade]

Look, i'm not going to pretend I know what you people are arguing about, but stop.

You guys remember what happened with the last thread right?
Nothing can (as of know) Prove this leak is real, sure if some more of these characters in the leak are confirmed it highly raises the chance of it being legit, but we likely wont know(before release) if this is legit.
Nothing can dis-prove this leak(as of now, nothing official can kill this leak)
So look, stop the arguing.

TL;DR:The leak can't be proven or dis-proven, but can be killed by anything official at anytime.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Look, i'm not going to pretend I know what you people are arguing about, but stop.

You guys remember what happened with the last thread right?
Nothing can (as of know) Prove this leak is real, sure if some more of these characters in the leak are confirmed it highly raises the chance of it being legit, but we likely wont know(before release) if this is legit.
Nothing can dis-prove this leak(as of now, nothing official can kill this leak)
So look, stop the arguing.

TL;DR:The leak can't be proven or dis-proven, but can be killed by anything official at anytime.

But...but we're not even arguing...

 

[BluePikmin11]

Wasn't (sadly) the Rhythm Heaven producer diagnosed with cancer?.. maybe the Chorus Men are a way that Sakurai found to pay homage for him; I guess is a logic line of thought (a weak logic, but still)....
Well, but the lineup isn't bad, and there's Pac-Man, I'm fine =P.

I don't think it helps nor does it pay homage, as the cancer was a late thing that happened after Sakurai finally decided on the roster. But it is sad to hear.

 

[Noiblade]

But...but we're not even arguing...

I don't know maybe you aren't but
sonicbrawler came off a bit hateful, and I apologize if you aren't. But my point still stands.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

I don't think it helps nor does it pay homage, as the cancer was a late thing that happened after Sakurai finally decided on the roster. But it is sad to hear.

Well, the decision of put the Chorus Men(Man) in the game could be done after, considering how Sonic was put in Brawl,.. oh well, I feel bad trying to think about games reveals with a sad fate as cancer in a guy. .-.

 

[BKupa666]

I do remember what happened to the last thread...what happened to the last thread is exactly the opposite of what is happening in here, which is on-topic leak discussion.

For the uninitiated, Sal did come into that thread and explain his role in the leak. The detractors proceeded to spit more all-powerful totally applicable bias and theory jargon in his face, as well as to tell him he was running his website wrong by not posting every crap rumor under the sun like GoNintendo and/or running his website so as to get attention from "guessing Wii Fit Trainer." Surprise, surprise.

 

[Morbi]

Look, i'm not going to pretend I know what you people are arguing about, but stop.

You guys remember what happened with the last thread right?
Nothing can (as of know) Prove this leak is real, sure if some more of these characters in the leak are confirmed it highly raises the chance of it being legit, but we likely wont know(before release) if this is legit.
Nothing can dis-prove this leak(as of now, nothing official can kill this leak)
So look, stop the arguing.

TL;DR:The leak can't be proven or dis-proven, but can be killed by anything official at anytime.

You expect debate to cease in a thread meant to discuss a leak? A leak that many believe to be true, and a great deal of others believe to be false? That isn't feasible.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

I have to agree with Sonicbrawler because you must be on some goood stuff.

I'm not going to waste my time with this because you aren't willing to understand what confirmation bias actually is but try you darnedest to accuse me of it. For anyone who is actually interested, here is a brief summary on it. Confirmation bias is when you make the conclusion fit the hypothesis and ignore or rationalize information to do that. I weighed the evidence against each other and came up with a conclusion. As such, I can not be guilty of confirmation bias.

The end result of this conversation will be twisting everything around to where we really don't get any where and we both look like fools. The point of your post was to accuse me and nothing more. You bring up information from conversations many months ago and which are not relevant to the current conversation. You further twist instances and words to fit your narrative. It's clear: you want to discuss the rumor because you want it to be real. If you're willing to have a logical conversation, then I will give you one. Until then, smell ya later.

"Someone posted a big respectable post with being reasonable and a down to earth tone. What do I do? Tell everyone they're not having a logical conversation and not bother responding!"

I mean, seriously people? The same arguments again? I'm frankly thinking everyone is just biased into shooting it down just because a character of their choice is *not* present on the roster. Yes, there's reasons to shoot it down, but they're VERY minor reasons when you think about it. He said he got the info from E3 2013 months before, right? Plans change. Stop bringing up these strawmanning arguments because you all think Sal is wrong. Sal isn't even calling himself a "Prophet" unlike the ridiculous BS during the Brawl roster that happened.

Honestly, I'd rant about this more, but @Scoliosis Jones and @GoldenYuiitusin already covered not only everything I think (even if I have some slight disagreements about game design planning, but whatever, multiple times the lot of you prove you know nothing about game design to begin with) but the fact that people don't read. If you're going to write long posts and expect people to read them, you might as dang well do the same when someone else that isn't you tries.

Also is it really that hard to just mostly drop it and say "Wait till E3"? You guys must love setting yourselves up for disappointment. If you just go in with a smile on your face, you won't be disappointed no matter what happens. This negativity is the reason why it's so hard for me to post around here. What the heck happened with you guys when I was busy with University?

 

[Noiblade]

You expect debate to cease in a thread meant to discuss a leak? A leak that many believe to be true, and a great deal of others believe to be false? That isn't feasible.

Look Sonicbrawler seems like he was being a ****, maybe he wasn't I don't know.

 

[Muster]

Look Sonicbrawler seems like he was being a ****, maybe he wasn't I don't know.

His bias is definitely showing in his posts, and I do see what you mean by hateful. (not to mention that saying the other user is "smoking stuff" isn't anything but rude and uncalled for)


[collapse=off topic]Were you the one who updated POTD when Sakuraibot was down? good on you.
[/collapse]

Love how this detail is often ignored by detractors.
A known fighting game leaker verifies that Sal isn't making **** up and sees the source of Sal's info as credible.

But no, the whole thing is a series of lucky guesses and safe bets made up by Sal himself as a ploy for attention and CAW is in on the whole thing.

Honestly, this gives me the most credibility out of anything the leaker can get right. Isn't CAW the one to leak characters like Phoenix wright for Mvc3? That's pretty big for him to be giving the leaker credibility off of some info he himself received.

 

[Noiblade]

His bias is definitely showing in his posts, and I do see what you mean by hateful. (not to mention that saying the other user is "smoking stuff" isn't anything but rude and uncalled for)


[collapse=off topic]Were you the one who updated POTD when Sakuraibot was down? good on you.
[/collapse]

Honestly, this gives me the most credibility out of anything the leaker can get right. Isn't CAW the one to leak characters like Phoenix wright for Mvc3? That's pretty big for him to be giving the leaker credibility off of some info he himself received.

Spoiler

Yep

 

[Hippopotasauce]

Wasn't (sadly) the Rhythm Heaven producer diagnosed with cancer?.. maybe the Chorus Men are a way that Sakurai found to pay homage for him; I guess is a logic line of thought (a weak logic, but still)....
Well, but the lineup isn't bad, and there's Pac-Man, I'm fine =P.

Actually it was the main composer, and I believe he was diagnosed quite a while ago. I remember hearing about it before it became a well known fact anyways.
But either way I don't think that would be a reason that Sakurai would add a character for.

 

[CyberWolfBia]

Actually it was the main composer, and I believe he was diagnosed quite a while ago. I remember hearing about it before it became a well known fact anyways.
But either way I don't think that would be a reason that Sakurai would add a character for.

for a musical game, I think that the Main Composer having cancer is a big impact in the series,... although, fortunately, nothing worse happened with him; .. but, if it's already old news, could be even more likely Chorus Men in Smash a kind of homage for the series due those sad news? I dunno.

 

[papagenos]

So I work at a retro gaming store and we recently got a copy of Clayfighter Sculpters Cut (rare N64 game) and I noticed one of the "cut" characters from Clayfighter 63 1/3 was a "3 in one" character:

got me thinking about the Sal leak and how Chorus men might work, basically just that a "3 in one character" is easily possible moving as a single unit.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So I work at a retro gaming store and we recently got a copy of Clayfighter Sculpters Cut (rare N64 game) and I noticed one of the "cut" characters from Clayfighter 63 1/3 was a "3 in one" character:

View attachment 13233

got me thinking about the Sal leak and how Chorus men might work, basically just that a "3 in one character" is easily possible moving as a single unit.

He's in the updated re-release, Sculptor's Cut. They're very similar to Ice Climbers, but they can't de-sync in any way. It's just basically a giant hitbox with range. They can be hit, and hit far.

I do not know if they could easily work that way, but think of it as working somewhat similar to Olimar & Pikmin, except they never detach and in that game, you can't KO one. Albeit, they're based upon a health meter due to it being a health bar-based fighter.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Here's how I see it: short of Chorus Men getting confirmed, the only way we'll know the Gematsu leak is correct is if Nintendo slaps 'em with a cease-and-desist. Since this hasn't happened yet, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Gematsu leak is fake.

 

[Noiblade]

Here's how I see it: short of Chorus Men getting confirmed, the only way we'll know the Gematsu leak is correct is if Nintendo slaps 'em with a cease-and-desist. Since this hasn't happened yet, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Gematsu leak is fake.

I don't really know that that'd be the case, if they responded to the rumor in anyway, the exact moment they do, we know it's real.

Ask yourself this, why would they bother messing with a fake rumor? They wouldn't. So they're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place at this point.
Sakurai is about, surprising, trolling and pleasing his fans, he wants everything to be a surprise. So you think that'd be enough to C&D right? I don't think that would be true, Sakurai knows the fanbase, Sakurai knows which leaks are real and which aren't, C&Ding a rumor would only draw attention to said rumor, and thus taking out the surprise. You may ask: Isn't the surprise already ruined? Nope. Here's why: Rumors are just that, rumors. No one has to believe them. If the leak was true it'd surprise me that we had an actual real leak, and if it's not true it'd also surprise me given the info we have at this point. Back to the rumor part, not everyone knows about it meaning not everyone has a choice of believing it or not.

tl;dr: C&D's aren't Sakurai's style.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I don't really know that that'd be the case, if they responded to the rumor in anyway, the exact moment they do, we know it's real.

Ask yourself this, why would they bother messing with a fake rumor? They wouldn't. So they're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place at this point.
Sakurai is about, surprising, trolling and pleasing his fans, he wants everything to be a surprise. So you think that'd be enough to C&D right? I don't think that would be true, Sakurai knows the fanbase, Sakurai knows which leaks are real and which aren't, C&Ding a rumor would only draw attention to said rumor, and thus taking out the surprise. You may ask: Isn't the surprise already ruined? Nope. Here's why: Rumors are just that, rumors. No one has to believe them. If the leak was true it'd surprise me that we had an actual real leak, and if it's not true it'd also surprise me given the info we have at this point. Back to the rumor part, not everyone knows about it meaning not everyone has a choice of believing it or not.

tl;dr: C&D's aren't Sakurai's style.

That's the point of my post. If there was any validity to Gematsu's leak, they would've already been shut up by Nintendo's lawyers. Two rumors go by - one with a surprisingly successful 'prediction' - and not a peep from the N's legal department. The thing that changes this little 'leak' is that the guy admitted he had an informant. That means that NDA's are being broken, and Salromano just admitted that they were being broken by someone. Not sure about you, but I'd be a little upset that the most important part of my brand new crossover fighter, not especially the major surprises I had lined up, were leaked by some loose-lipped knucklehead breaking NDA.

You argue that the surprise isn't ruined, but what if it turns out Chorus Men really ARE in the game? No-one's going to be surprised. The general consensus is going to be, 'Oh, Gematsu/Salromano were right. Cool.' and everyone's going to go about their lives like normal.

Anyway, that's besides the point. We didn't get leaks for Brawl and Melee 'til reviewers got their copies and could safely break NDA under the veil of anonymity. I have no reason to suspect that Gematsu is the exception to that rule. My guess is that they had access to someone who had access to E3 information, they passed it along, Gematsu ran with it as click/view bait. It's clearly working. I'll be honest, even that's a bit of a stretch.

tl;dr: C&D's aren't Sakurai's style, but they're Nintendo's legal department's style.

 

[Shroob]

That's the point of my post. If there was any validity to Gematsu's leak, they would've already been shut up by Nintendo's lawyers. Two rumors go by - one with a surprisingly successful 'prediction' - and not a peep from the N's legal department. The thing that changes this little 'leak' is that the guy admitted he had an informant. That means that NDA's are being broken, and Salromano just admitted that they were being broken by someone. Not sure about you, but I'd be a little upset that the most important part of my brand new crossover fighter, not especially the major surprises I had lined up, were leaked by some loose-lipped knucklehead breaking NDA.

You argue that the surprise isn't ruined, but what if it turns out Chorus Men really ARE in the game? No-one's going to be surprised. The general consensus is going to be, 'Oh, Gematsu/Salromano were right. Cool.' and everyone's going to go about their lives like normal.

Anyway, that's besides the point. We didn't get leaks for Brawl and Melee 'til reviewers got their copies and could safely break NDA under the veil of anonymity. I have no reason to suspect that Gematsu is the exception to that rule. My guess is that they had access to someone who had access to E3 information, they passed it along, Gematsu ran with it as click/view bait. It's clearly working. I'll be honest, even that's a bit of a stretch.

tl;dr: C&D's aren't Sakurai's style, but they're Nintendo's legal department's style.

Um, I'm pretty sure we got leaks for Brawl and Melee MONTHS before the games came out.

 

[Noiblade]

That's the point of my post. If there was any validity to Gematsu's leak, they would've already been shut up by Nintendo's lawyers. Two rumors go by - one with a surprisingly successful 'prediction' - and not a peep from the N's legal department. The thing that changes this little 'leak' is that the guy admitted he had an informant. That means that NDA's are being broken, and Salromano just admitted that they were being broken by someone. Not sure about you, but I'd be a little upset that the most important part of my brand new crossover fighter, not especially the major surprises I had lined up, were leaked by some loose-lipped knucklehead breaking NDA.

You argue that the surprise isn't ruined, but what if it turns out Chorus Men really ARE in the game? No-one's going to be surprised. The general consensus is going to be, 'Oh, Gematsu/Salromano were right. Cool.' and everyone's going to go about their lives like normal.

Anyway, that's besides the point. We didn't get leaks for Brawl and Melee 'til reviewers got their copies and could safely break NDA under the veil of anonymity. I have no reason to suspect that Gematsu is the exception to that rule. My guess is that they had access to someone who had access to E3 information, they passed it along, Gematsu ran with it as click/view bait. It's clearly working. I'll be honest, even that's a bit of a stretch.

tl;dr: C&D's aren't Sakurai's style, but they're Nintendo's legal department's style.

But seriously, do you think that Nintendo is going to shut down a rumor? I've honestly never seen any company shut down any rumor.
Edit: I'm pretty sure we did have some legit Melee and Brawl leaks, how come those never got C&D?

 

[Shroob]

It's pretty much a fact of life that almost every high-profile game nowadays will get 'leaked' somehow, just look at the fiasco with Pokemon X and Y.

MvsC3 and the Ultimate version had their rosters leaked months before it came out, same with Injustice and Mortal Kombat 9. Leaks happen, not much you can do about it.

 

[papagenos]

But seriously, do you think that Nintendo is going to shut down a rumor? I've honestly never seen any company shut down any rumor.

since it wasn't like leaked pictures from being sold early (like pokemon x and y) and since it's simply stated as a "rumor", nintendo isn't going to come down on the guy... in fact if they did it would validate it and nintendo is not the type to do that, they basically never say anything about leaked info and just ignore it.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Well, I guess I should've done my research right. That's silly of me.

That pretty much was a genuine waste of my time there. I'm not going to bother continuing to argue about it. I just think people are underestimating how trigger happy Nintendo's legal team is. I'm still going to take some colossal grains of salt when it comes to the Gematsu leak, since I'm not convinced.

 

[Noiblade]

Well, I guess I should've done my research right. That's silly of me.

That pretty much was a genuine waste of my time there. I'm not going to bother continuing to argue about it. I just think people are underestimating how trigger happy Nintendo's legal team is. I'm still going to take some colossal grains of salt when it comes to the Gematsu leak, since I'm not convinced.

Honestly, I don't blame you, but I really think this is a legit leak.

 

[Johnknight1]

MvsC3 and the Ultimate version had their rosters leaked months before it came out

Sal leaked the Ultimate MvC3 roster for the record.

Um, I'm pretty sure we got leaks for Brawl and Melee MONTHS before the games came out.

Melee had 1 or 2 leaks, Brawl had at least 4 leaks. 4!!! Why wouldn't you expect as many or more than the previous 2 smash games=???

It's from the same guy though.

I'm just saying the first "leaks" are totally spot on, and the 2 "leaked newcomers" seem all but confirmed.

Also, we don't know if this source is a direct source who directly leaked stuff via actually being involved with the team, or if they have a source that is a direct leak, or if it's further source-ception. If Sal's source is a direct source, then yes, it's definitely true. If Sal's source is somebody who has a direct source, or has further source-ception, then the odds of if being true and/or involving the same people aren't quite as high.

You gotta always remember "who told who?". When my source pre-Brawl leaked to me that 75M from Donkey Kong was the only unknown stage by all the other leakers, I knew who my source was, and he told me who his source was (a direct source). That's how I knew it was correct.

I don't know how Sal's source(s) work, or who his sources are, but I do know he has had faulty sources before, but he's almost always got the right sources, and he's never made up crap. I just don't know how his source(s) work. If I knew how it worked, it would clear up a lot of things, especially in regards to the 2nd leak.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Here's how I see it: short of Chorus Men getting confirmed, the only way we'll know the Gematsu leak is correct is if Nintendo slaps 'em with a cease-and-desist. Since this hasn't happened yet, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the Gematsu leak is fake.

They didn't do that with Pokémon X & Y when that leaked. They went to kick the store which sold the copies' ass, but they didn't directly go to any leakers. It'd be a bad move too, since at this point this is only a text leak, nothing more.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

I just think people are underestimating how trigger happy Nintendo's legal team is. I'm still going to take some colossal grains of salt when it comes to the Gematsu leak, since I'm not convinced.

Well, in order to carry out a lawsuit, you first have to prove that harm has been done - which means Nintendo would have to admit the leak is true. That would damage their product, as well as their fans' trust in them. There is no 'win' for them in this situation.

Besides, given recent trends I have a feeling Nintendo's been slowing down on the copyright stuff. I think they realized fans are upset with them, and it could have impacted their sales last year. We see Nintendo's stance changing with granting EVO permission to include Melee, but they still denied Brawl... which I get. With a new game just around the corner, they want to keep people hyped up and forgetting about the one they already have. It's still a ways from being a totally IP-free company, but I think they're starting to get over themselves.

And finally, a leak doesn't ruin a game if you look at it as just a leak. I will still be surprised when I see Chorus Men, even though I think the leak is credible. That's because I don't take the leak as gospel. All it tells me is that these characters were intended to be in the game the day the informant looked over Sakurai's shoulder. After all, it's not hard to disable a character or cease production if it's not going well (see Mewtwo's exclusion from Brawl, even though some trace elements of his code are buried within)

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

Is anybody here actually convinced about this leak one way or the other? Seems making up your mind about it is kinda premature, given the total lack of conclusive evidence.

Most of you guys are way too quick to form an opinion. Just maintain a healthy degree of scepticism, and keep an eye on any updates.

And keep it calm. Too much vitriol in these boards from certain over-opinionated members.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, in order to carry out a lawsuit, you first have to prove that harm has been done - which means Nintendo would have to admit the leak is true. That would damage their product, as well as their fans' trust in them. There is no 'win' for them in this situation.

Besides, given recent trends I have a feeling Nintendo's been slowing down on the copyright stuff. I think they realized fans are upset with them, and it could have impacted their sales last year. We see Nintendo's stance changing with granting EVO permission to include Melee, but they still denied Brawl... which I get. With a new game just around the corner, they want to keep people hyped up and forgetting about the one they already have. It's still a ways from being a totally IP-free company, but I think they're starting to get over themselves.

And finally, a leak doesn't ruin a game if you look at it as just a leak. I will still be surprised when I see Chorus Men, even though I think the leak is credible. That's because I don't take the leak as gospel. All it tells me is that these characters were intended to be in the game the day the informant looked over Sakurai's shoulder. After all, it's not hard to disable a character or cease production if it's not going well (see Mewtwo's exclusion from Brawl, even though some trace elements of his code are buried within)

I'm imagining that we're looking at planned characters here from very early in development, if not pre-production, not necessarily who's in the final game here. Remember that Salromano leaked Animal Crossing Guy instead of Villager and why we saw Pokémon X and Y instead of Gekkouga. It's why I can see Roy and Dixie Kong showing up in a hypothetical third leak and still not being in the final roster; because of being planned and then cut due to various reasons.

However, I do believe that should the leak be true, that everyone leaked so far is appearing on the final roster. Chorus Men is the type of characters that I'd imagine is either in the game or not planned at all; in other words, everyone leaked so far is a high priority character. That could change with a possible third leak, but for right now, I'd say it's safe to say that everyone leaked now will be on the final roster. It's not like Mewtwo where it was made low priority due to Lucario and Pokémon Trainer being higher priority and likely being cut due to time constraints and/or having a really bad move set that required a serious revamp that Sakurai simply didn't have time for.
---
Another thing, let's say that these characters are in a hypothetical third leak:

King K. Rool
Mach Rider
Isaac
Tingle

And not Mewtwo. How would that fair on Mewtwo? I mean with other characters like Ridley, K. Rool and Isaac, if they don't show up in a third leak, that's a good indication they aren't playable since they'd be newcomers if they get in. Yet what about Mewtwo? Mewtwo has been in Melee as playable, so we can't necessarily say that Mewtwo would be a newcomer, yet he was cut from Brawl.

I have a feeling that regardless of whenever or not Mewtwo is playable in this game, we are probably not going to see Mewtwo in a leaked planned document. Sakurai sees Mewtwo as a veteran and as such, will probably treat him differently from the rest. In other words, we'll likely be guessing on Mewtwo's fate until release even if we learn of all the newcomers before release.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Most of you guys are way too quick to form an opinion. Just maintain a healthy degree of scepticism, and keep an eye on any updates.

Neutral President, is that you? D:

 

[Noiblade]

Is anybody here actually convinced about this leak one way or the other? Seems making up your mind about it is kinda premature, given the total lack of conclusive evidence.

Most of you guys are way too quick to form an opinion. Just maintain a healthy degree of scepticism, and keep an eye on any updates.

And keep it calm. Too much vitriol in these boards from certain over-opinionated members.

I'm not 100% sure on what this is (right or wrong) but i'm leaning more towards right, because 5/11 characters have been confirmed. But you're right, nothing is set in stone.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Is anybody here actually convinced about this leak one way or the other? Seems making up your mind about it is kinda premature, given the total lack of conclusive evidence.

There's a lack of conclusive evidence? Did you read Scoliosis's posts? What else do you want?

I mean, I'm not 100% sold on the second batch still, but seriously? Saying there's no evidence is insane.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I mean, I'm not 100% sold on the second batch still, but seriously? Saying there's no evidence is insane.

I'll concede that Wii Fit Trainer was a stretch of a guess and the most compelling evidence in favor of the leak, but 'Pokemon from X/Y' feels purposely vague (psychics and horoscopes do this kind of thing, as well, so you'll draw parallels when it happens and think it's accurate) and Chorus Men is even MORE of a stretch than Wii Fit Trainer was.

So, yeah, there's evidence, but until Chorus Men get confirmed, I'd say that it's safest to just watch and see what happens.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Chorus Men is even MORE of a stretch than Wii Fit Trainer was.

Uh, no not really? I mean yeah, it's a slight left-field choice for a Rhythm Heaven character, but far more people had expectations for that (especially after Villager) than a bloody Wii Fit character. That can't even be argued. You guys are treating it like a stretch (Or rather average posters I see) because people look at more what they want, and not what the entire reality is..

Once again, Scol's post. I'm not saying it's 100% true or fact, but what I am saying is that we *definitely* have a good deal of info on this. The only question is what Sal's tipper was working in.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

I'm imagining that we're looking at planned characters here from very early in development, if not pre-production, not necessarily who's in the final game here. Remember that Salromano leaked Animal Crossing Guy instead of Villager and why we saw Pokémon X and Y instead of Gekkouga. It's why I can see Roy and Dixie Kong showing up in a hypothetical third leak and still not being in the final roster; because of being planned and then cut due to various reasons.

However, I do believe that should the leak be true, that everyone leaked so far is appearing on the final roster. Chorus Men is the type of characters that I'd imagine is either in the game or not planned at all; in other words, everyone leaked so far is a high priority character. That could change with a possible third leak, but for right now, I'd say it's safe to say that everyone leaked now will be on the final roster. It's not like Mewtwo where it was made low priority due to Lucario and Pokémon Trainer being higher priority and likely being cut due to time constraints and/or having a really bad move set that required a serious revamp that Sakurai simply didn't have time for.
---
Another thing, let's say that these characters are in a hypothetical third leak:

King K. Rool
Mach Rider
Isaac
Tingle

And not Mewtwo. How would that fair on Mewtwo? I mean with other characters like Ridley, K. Rool and Isaac, if they don't show up in a third leak, that's a good indication they aren't playable since they'd be newcomers if they get in. Yet what about Mewtwo? Mewtwo has been in Melee as playable, so we can't necessarily say that Mewtwo would be a newcomer, yet he was cut from Brawl.

I have a feeling that regardless of whenever or not Mewtwo is playable in this game, we are probably not going to see Mewtwo in a leaked planned document. Sakurai sees Mewtwo as a veteran and as such, will probably treat him differently from the rest. In other words, we'll likely be guessing on Mewtwo's fate until release even if we learn of all the newcomers before release.

With all due respect, I get the feeling you missed my point (and if I'm wrong, sorry!) What I was getting at is even though Mewtwo was planned for Brawl and even partially implemented, he was later scrapped for whatever reason. The same is possible for any of the characters leaked and so far unconfirmed.

I have no expectations about whether Mewtwo would appear on the leak. That was the first question I asked coming into this thread, and it's already been answered.

 

[Deleted member]

With all due respect, I get the feeling you missed my point (and if I'm wrong, sorry!) What I was getting at is even though Mewtwo was planned for Brawl and even partially implemented, he was later scrapped for whatever reason. The same is possible for any of the characters leaked and so far unconfirmed.

I have no expectations about whether Mewtwo would appear on the leak. That was the first question I asked coming into this thread, and it's already been answered.

I should have clarified that I was referring to your last paragraph. My bad.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

Uh, no not really? I mean yeah, it's a slight left-field choice for a Rhythm Heaven character, but far more people had expectations for that (especially after Villager) than a bloody Wii Fit character. That can't even be argued. You guys are treating it like a stretch (Or rather average posters I see) because people look at more what they want, and not what the entire reality is..

I'm looking at what the entire field of reality is, and I just feel that there's a lot of other fighters that need inclusion before Chorus Men. Wii Fit Trainer was a stretch, but not THAT much of a stress. Look at how well Wii Fit has sold in comparison to Rhythm Heaven. I think it's safe to say Sakurai looked at sales charts, stroked his chin and said, 'I think a fighter built primarily around fitness and yoga moves would be really unique and interesting.'.

I just have a hard time believing that Sakurai would say 'You know what this game needs? Ice Climbers Plus One.'. That just feels like more of a stretch to me than a fitness-related character.

I'm not completely discounting Chorus Men as a newcomer. I'd be 100% cool with that being the case, even if it's not a personal pick. Plus, Smash Brothers is an extremely effective vehicle for advertisement (a lot of people were introduced to Mother/Fire Emblem, and everyone who loves Fire Emblem now can thank Smash for that), so I could see them throwing Rhythm Heaven a bone by adding representation. I'm just hoping someone saw an Assist Trophy and thought it was a playable character. ;P

 

[Noiblade]

I'm looking at what the entire field of reality is, and I just feel that there's a lot of other fighters that need inclusion before Chorus Men. Wii Fit Trainer was a stretch, but not THAT much of a stress. Look at how well Wii Fit has sold in comparison to Rhythm Heaven. I think it's safe to say Sakurai looked at sales charts, stroked his chin and said, 'I think a fighter built primarily around fitness and yoga moves would be really unique and interesting.'.

I just have a hard time believing that Sakurai would say 'You know what this game needs? Ice Climbers Plus One.'. That just feels like more of a stretch to me than a fitness-related character.

I'm not completely discounting Chorus Men as a newcomer. I'd be 100% cool with that being the case, even if it's not a personal pick. Plus, Smash Brothers is an extremely effective vehicle for advertisement (a lot of people were introduced to Mother/Fire Emblem, and everyone who loves Fire Emblem now can thank Smash for that), so I could see them throwing Rhythm Heaven a bone by adding representation. I'm just hoping someone saw an Assist Trophy and thought it was a playable character. ;P

I'm not quite sure that's how Sakurai adds characters, I don't think he looks at sales and says
"That character was in a game that sold well/poorly i'll put him/her into the game because that game needs more marketing/that game did well"
I think that Sakurai looks at the character and thinks "What unique playstyle could that character bring?" In this case the Chorus Men, which might have a rhythm based moveset.

But Idk, I think there's a very good chance that he'll be in, but I don't know for sure.

 

[BADGRAPHICS]

There's a lack of conclusive evidence? Did you read Scoliosis's posts? What else do you want?

I mean, I'm not 100% sold on the second batch still, but seriously? Saying there's no evidence is insane.

No no no, you misunderstand me. There is evidence in favour of this leak, that's the only reason we're giving it the time of day. Plenty of evidence to support its legitimacy, in fact.

None of the evidence is conclusive, though. As in; not enough to make a conclusion. This leak is worth paying attention to, but we shouldn't be wasting our time arguing over whether we should support it or not.

I actually think it's more likely to be real than fake, but I'm not going to be surprised if it turns out to be total fantasy.

EDIT: As a side note, I don't think we'll see the Chorus Men before release. At E3 we'll almost certainly see Mii and Pac-Man. Those are the most high-profile inclusions. The rest are likely to be hidden, unlockable characters.

EDIT EDIT: Another point, if we see a newcomer that isn't part of Sal Romano's list, how would you all feel that affected the leak?

 

[EmbersToAshes]

No no no, you misunderstand me. There is evidence in favour of this leak, that's the only reason we're giving it the time of day. Plenty of evidence to support its legitimacy, in fact.

None of the evidence is conclusive, though. As in; not enough to make a conclusion. This leak is worth paying attention to, but we shouldn't be wasting our time arguing over whether we should support it or not.

I actually think it's more likely to be real than fake, but I'm not going to be surprised if it turns out to be total fantasy.

EDIT: As a side note, I don't think we'll see the Chorus Men before release. At E3 we'll almost certainly see Mii and Pac-Man. Those are the most high-profile inclusions. The rest are likely to be hidden, unlockable characters.

EDIT EDIT: Another point, if we see a newcomer that isn't part of Sal Romano's list, how would you all feel that affected the leak?

I don't really think it would affect the leak. The fact that Sal is receiving his leak in segments rather than as one drop heavily suggests that his informant sees bits and pieces, and not the full picture. I don't think a character not included in the leak being announced would affect the leak itself because of the nature of the leak and the perceived nature of the informants relationship to the team.