The Official "Should/Will Metaknight be banned?" Thread (LISTEN TO THE SBR PODCAST!)

[Yuna]

but it's not just that mk is popular, it's that he is popular and completely decimating the tournament scene.

O RLY? Then why is he not taking the Top 5 at every tournament? Why are other characters still winning?

can you find me an instance of another fighting game where the top character was as effective as the next 6 characters combined and was as easily the most prevalent, yet was not banned?

Can you find me 10 credible Smashers who believe that Meta-Knight is as effective as "the next 6 characters combined"?

look, i agree with you that it's a stupid reason... but it's killing this game, and if we want to it going, we need to fix it. bottom line.

How many times must I say this: In my opinion (yes, my opinion), it is still not enough. You can agree to disagree with me here. You cannot "prove" me wrong on this.

 

[Lord Exor]

Meta Knight is written without a dash between words.

 

[Yuna]

And by jumping on it, you made one too. Deal with it.

Show of hands, how many people think I did wrong for replying to him before "he had the chance to retract his own statements"? How many people blame for not being psychic?

As I said, I was just having a conversation with a guy who posted, and gave him the benefit of the doubt. You jumped in with a personal attack against me because you failed to realize that. I don't believe I made the worse mistake here.

What part of the following is a personal attack on you:

Apparently it worked, since with that restriction there were only 2 MKs instead of the limit of 3 -- someone that could have played him chose to play a different character instead since they wouldn't have to wade through 8 MKs.

"Or maybe there only were two people who wanted to play as MK. Maybe the other MKs just chose not to show up. Or maybe they had just switched mains inbetween tournaments. Or maybe that was the first tournament that TO ever held and there were never more than two MK in that area to begin with!" - None of this even applies to you.

"Are you saying there were a multitude of MK players (or quite possibly 3) who knew how to play as him, showed up and randomly chose not to because of the limit, despite there being an extra spot? Wow, what idiots." - I called the tourney attendees possible idiots.

"Random BS assumptions based on nothing so you can "prove" yourself right is bad since they're easily seen through." - I called your assumptions bovine manure and I called "[making] random BS assumptions based on nothing so you can 'prove' yourself right" (which is an action) bad.

Summary: I called your assumptions possible BS (it was inferred) and your actions bad. Now if you take every single criticism of anything you ever say or do a personal attack, well then, my friend, you won't last very long out in the real world.

None of this constitutes a personal attack on you.

 

[brinboy789]

but it's not just that mk is popular, it's that he is popular and completely decimating the tournament scene. can you find me an instance of another fighting game where the top character was as effective as the next 6 characters combined and was as easily the most prevalent, yet was not banned?

look, i agree with you that it's a stupid reason... but it's killing this game, and if we want to keep it going, we need to fix it. bottom line.

MK isnt destroying the tourney scene...i went to a recent tourney, and there were around 4 MKs, and around 50 people. >_< and about the tourney results, sure MK is first. sure he has his own rank. so what? im pretty sure the top 6 characters combined WILL go wayover MK's tourney results. as i saw in the previous post, marth has NO bad matchups except for MK, who doesnt count. MK is NOT dominating the tourney scene. people arent fleeing torward him. rather, as seen at http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5489519#post5489519 , all the complaining and whining is actually starting to get MK players to change mains because all of the people who whine 48/7 about him.

 

[Lord Exor]

I take it the bold lettering is meant to denote important points so as not to confuse so-called nitwits when interpreting your walls of text. It also embodies a passionate emphasis, and thus can be misconstrued as an attempt at a personal attack.

 

[Shark Week]

@ brinboy and yuna

ankoku's list?

EDIT: and yuna, i'm not part of the sbr, but it's been said multiple times that they are thinking about banning mk, and a large number of them think it's the right course of action. draw your own conclusions.

 

[brinboy789]

I take it the bold lettering is meant to denote important points so as not to confuse so-called nitwits when interpreting your walls of text. It also embodies a passionate emphasis, and thus can be misconstrued as an attempt at a personal attack.

have you considered a career of an english teacher

 

[Frogsterking]

Uhh Yuna *holds up white flag from behind a tree* I would like to say something. Look at the pages before you came. Now look at all the pages after you came. The difference is that at first people were calmly and respectfully discussing a matter, it didn't need to become personal or deteriorate into insults. Good debaters don't have to insult people just to get their point across. You didn't have to jump all over me earlier, or anyone else.

 

[Lord Exor]

Have you considered a career as an English teacher?

Fixed. And possibly.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Uhh Yuna *holds up white flag from behind a tree* I would like to say something. Look at the pages before you came. Now look at all the pages after you came. The difference is that at first people were calmly and respectfully discussing a matter, it didn't need to become personal or deteriorate into insults. Good debaters don't have to insult people just to get their point across. You didn't have to jump all over me earlier, or anyone else for that matter.

Thank you. And you never know Yuna, maybe when your going around the world to see different countries, it might happen.

You say your intellectual, I'd like to pose this to you then. Why insult people? Is it the interenet knowing that no harm will come to you? You could insult a cracker and lose your entire computer and have to buy a new one. If your truly as smart as you say, be calm, cool, collective, and just be respectful, otherwise people ignore you more often, or fight against you and don't see your point of view.

As for that tourny, no, we don't have a MK [problem at that one, as many people are Japanese/ asain and have good honor, I've even seen a few kill themselves on a match where someone else, maybe a newbi, kills themselves by accident. Its pretty sweet really, glad I got on the circuit

My area isn't like the rest of the world, however, so my grounds don't hold against the world at large, MK is a problem to the Metagame and should be banned due to how its degrading to just MK vs MK (Thought, METAknight ruining the METAgame, I think its his destiny.)

 

[Lord Exor]

You say your intelectual, I'd like to pose this to you then. Why insult people?

Because ad hominem is the mark of a great debater!

 

[Gaussis]

Stupidity should be combated on all fronts. I'm not saying I'm suicidal, but I wouldn't see it as a total loss. I'm positive like that.

QFT forever.

To everyone: Yuna seems that he insults people. However, seeing it from the outside, I can't really say that. Why? Because when you argue, you have to not only argue logically, but argue with a purpose in mind. Otherwise, you will end up arguing illogically/hypocritically. This is what Yuna calls on.

 

[Frogsterking]

Because ad hominem is the mark of a great debater!

No.

QFT forever.

To everyone: Yuna seems that he insults people. However, seeing it from the outside, I can't really say that. Why? Because when you argue, you have to not only argue logically, but argue with a purpose in mind. Otherwise, you will end up arguing illogically/hypocritically. This is what Yuna calls on.

You can easily argue with a purpose in mind without personally insulting people for no reason. Its called being firm...but respectful.

Stupidity should be combated on all fronts. I'm not saying I'm suicidal, but I wouldn't see it as a total loss. I'm positive like that.

Thats not always true. Everyone has to start somewhere, just because they ask a stupid question or say something that doesn't make any sense, doesn't mean they are evil and it is your job to defeat them. Someday they might be veterans here...you can't be so judgemental.

 

[PieM4ster]

Lots of "THE END IS NIGH!" in here. I see lots of MK, but hes not the only one played (in my area). This discussion seems a bit... early, to me. I'll read through this again in a few months if its still here. Until MK becomes as good compared to the best of the cast as Cable was compared to the worst characters in Marvel vs. Capcom 2, I can't see him being banned.

 

[Yuna]

Meta Knight is written without a dash between words.

Your complaint was noted and an edit change has occured.

I take it the bold lettering is meant to denote important points so as not to confuse so-called nitwits when interpreting your walls of text. It also embodies a passionate emphasis, and thus can be misconstrued as an attempt at a personal attack.

When I use bold, it denotes both important points and/or emphasis for greater visibility (not necessarily just for important points). When I'm being very condescending and hostile, I use bold, italics and underline, all at the same time or in some kind of combination. I might even resize the text.

EDIT: and yuna, i'm not part of the sbr, but it's been said multiple times that they are thinking about banning mk, and a large number of them think it's the right course of action. draw your own conclusions.

And I think that anyone who thinks that MK should be banned at this very moment with the things we know at this very moment as motivation is either stupid, ignorant, jumping to conclusions and/or misguided.

And yes, SBR:ers can be all of that... even combined. I have yet to, IMO, see enough reasoning for why he should be banned. I don't know, maybe the debaters for the ban in the SBR is actually using valid arguments and managing to prove their points using logic and facts. If so, feel free to show these to me, if you can.

The fact taht there are credible people who agree with you means nothing if we don't know their reasoning. The fact that there are people who agree with me also makes it a moot point. It's just a controversial issue.

Uhh Yuna *holds up white flag from behind a tree* I would like to say something. Look at the pages before you came. Now look at all the pages after you came. The difference is that at first people were calmly and respectfully discussing a matter, it didn't need to become personal or deteriorate into insults. Good debaters don't have to insult people just to get their point across. You didn't have to jump all over me earlier, or anyone else for that matter.

1) It wasn't very calm. People were still passionate.
2) It was meaningless chatter where very people cared to actually elaborate or discuss. It was just a lot of people stating their opinions either as facts or opinions and nothing happened. Like the SBR is going to see 29 people saying "I think MK should be banned!" and care. At least I got the debate going again.
3) Please find me at least 3 instances where I directly insult people in this thread. Or where I directly insult specific people, be they in this thread or not. Or where I get "personal" with at least 3 people.

Just because I use wit, sarcasm, irony, snark and thinly veiled bile in my posts doesn't mean I'm directly insulting anyone. I am highly skilled in the arts of non-insulting: I can make people feel insulted without actually insulting them, usually through showing to them how very wrong they are.

You say your intellectual, I'd like to pose this to you then.

Intellectual = Nice person who never, ever says anything remotely insulting

Why insult people? Is it the interenet knowing that no harm will come to you? You could insult a cracker and lose your entire computer and have to buy a new one.

Because I do not live a life governed by fear where I cannot do anything for fear of upsetting someone who might do something highly illegal to me in revenge.

If your truly as smart as you say, be calm, cool, collective, and just be respectful, otherwise people ignore you more often, or fight against you and don't see your point of view.

I am respectful... to those who deserve it. When people ignore parts of what I say, they're not being respectful. When they repeat the same refuted stuff over again, despite me having just refuted it without acknolwedging at least that I just replied to it, they're insulting me. When they miscontrue my word and then refuse to take my word for it when I elaborate, they are insulting me.

As for that tourny, no, we don't have a MK [problem at that one, as many people are Japanese/ asain and have good honor, I've even seen a few kill themselves on a match where someone else, maybe a newbi, kills themselves by accident. Its pretty sweet really, glad I got on the circuit

Wow. I reiterate: They are idiots. Honor is meaningless in competition. As long as it's legal, do it. Who cares if you have honor when you could have hundreds of dolllars in prize money instead?

Killing yourselves in Competitive play when someone else kills themselves is stupid. Honor, peh. Yes, I just directly insulted those people. It's an exception and I seldom do this, but I'll risk the wrath of crackers for this.

My area isn't like the rest of the world, however, so my grounds don't hold against the world at large, MK is a problem to the Metagame and should be banned due to how its degrading to just MK vs MK (Thought, METAknight ruining the METAgame, I think its his destiny.)

Which is why I said: We don't care about what you guys did or didn't do.

Since you guys are few, probably not really that good and experienced and there aren't even many MKs where you live.

 

[zamz]

No.

You can easily argue with a purpose in mind without personally insulting people for no reason. Its called being firm...but respectful.

That's only if you assume everyone deserves respect. If you believe that people only deserve respect when they prove they're worthy of respect, then Yuna is certainly in the right. You will meet people who aren't gum-drop nice. You will meet people who believe respect is a hard-earned trait that needs to be won.

If you've said something that isn't true and you preach it as being fact, then Yuna has every right to call you on it. Plain and simple. Being dishonest to win a debate is unacceptable. And Yuna most likely believes that anyone who makes false claims and broadcasts it as fact deserves insult.

 

[Yuna]

Because ad hominem is the mark of a great debater!

Quote me where I do this to the people I debate against.

QFT forever.

To everyone: Yuna seems that he insults people. However, seeing it from the outside, I can't really say that. Why? Because when you argue, you have to not only argue logically, but argue with a purpose in mind. Otherwise, you will end up arguing illogically/hypocritically. This is what Yuna calls on.

You get a gold star for reading comprehension and logic.

You can easily argue with a purpose in mind without personally insulting people for no reason. Its called being firm...but respectful.

I do that 'til people prove undeserving of my restraint. Then I go all out and insult them through showing them just how wrong they really are. Show me these many ad hominems of mine!

Thats not always true. Everyone has to start somewhere, just because they ask a stupid question or say something that doesn't make any sense, doesn't mean they are evil and it is your job to defeat them. Someday they might be veterans here...you can't be so judgemental.

What part of "I don't start out treating everyone like idiots. Ignorance is not a crime, it's stupidity that is a crime. It's not wrong to not knowing a lot about Smash as long as you realize your shortcomings and don't act like you know a lot, especially when proven wrong." (paraphrase) was too Norwegian for dig å skjonne? I don't start out insulting someone unless I feel the post I'm replying to proves rampant stupidity not easily cured. I almost always start out firm, but courteous. Then, I might even continue on that path if their reply doesn't prove to be cataclysmically stupid. It's around the 3rd reply I might strain a muscle holding myself back if they persist in being stupid.

See, I see all of these accusations of me being disrespectful, insulting and whatever. O RLY? Quote me. Find me these many instances. If you can, I shall renounce my wicked ways and become a better man.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Yeah Yuna, I know, not many MK's in my area, Best not to call them idiots though, they don't WANT to play a broken character, is all.

As for the killing themselves? It makes the newbi's feel better, which means they come back, and pay their money to join again, even if to lose. Its good business sense.

And Yuna, if they are idiots, accept it, and just speak calmly and not rant or yell, or insult them. It will make you look like a great person, and them look like idiots. But if you go insulting them, people see it the other way around, You will be the bad guy, them the innocent victim.

I WILL agree with Zams though, the corrupt must face judgment.

 

[Yuna]

That's only if you assume everyone deserves respect. If you believe that people only deserve respect when they prove they're worthy of respect, then Yuna is certainly in the right. You will meet people who aren't gum-drop nice. You will meet people who believe respect is a hard-earned trait that needs to be won.

If you've said something that isn't true and you preach it as being fact, then Yuna has every right to call you on it. Plain and simple. Being dishonest to win a debate is unacceptable. And Yuna most likely believes that anyone who makes false claims and broadcasts it as fact deserves insult.

You are right on one point:
I believe everyone is deserving of respect until they prove me wrong. It's just that my threshold for restraining myself from chewing people out is lower than that of many people. I tried being nice, the first months of Brawl's debate, I went 5 pages sometimes being perfectly courteous, respectful and calm. It didn't work any better than my current style does.

In fact, I'd say my current style works better. At least now they'll read my posts more intently and possibly even get riled up over them instead of assuming they're right, ignore all valid counter-arguments to their "arguments" and then we'll go 5 pages before I finally say "Oh, that's it, have at you!" and they end up with their tail behind their legs.

At least now I save myself, them and everyone else a lot of time and posts.

 

[Yuna]

Yeah Yuna, I know, not many MK's in my area, Best not to call them idiots though, they don't WANT to play a broken character, is all.

I'm sorry, my English must have gone into "Academic Mode" again (translation: Reading comprehension is important. Do not skim unless you, like me, have the ability to comprehend what is written through skimming. You might want to re-read what you thought you'd comprehended. You were wrong. I did not say what you think I said).

I never called the Meta Knights in your area stupid. I said the following people were stupid:
* People who main Meta Knight or who were at least planning on using Meta Knight for the tourney you mentioned but who then all decided to not play as him because of an arbitrary limit of the number of Meta Knights eligible for the tournament, despite there being an extra open slot
* People who kill themselves in Competitive play to make up for the mistakes of their opponents

As for the killing themselves? It makes the newbi's feel better, which means they come back, and pay their money to join again, even if to lose. Its good business sense.

Hey, someone just walked into my charged smash. That's a pretty dumb mistake and pretty much killing yourself. I guess I should suicide now...

It teaches them that competition isn't something to be taken seriously, that you can get through life even if you stumble because people will always be ready to help you, even when it counteracts what they and you are doing.

Hey, I'm arm wrestling Arnold Schwarzenegger. I guess he should let me win or lose by only a small margin because it'll inflate my self-esteem (even though if I were logical and smart, I'd know he sandbagged me). I mean, I've only entered a tournament. I should be able to go far on my little skill!

And people should make me feel better when I make a booboo! It's not insulting or condescending at all that my opponent thinks he can afford a suicide against me, that a suicide might not lose him the match if I come back and destroy him, a match he might otherwise not have lost!

It makes me feel so much better that my opponent thinks he can win even with a handicap!

Y And Yuna, if they are idiots, accept it, and just speak calmly and not rant or yell, or insult them. It will make you look like a great person, and them look like idiots. But if you go insulting them, people see it the other way around, You will be the bad guy, them the innocent victim.

It does not work. My current style actually works better than when I perfectly nice (see above post of mine). I am not the bad guy in the eyes of the people who have been to these boards for a long time. They will have realized that my style is effective and quite possibly even necessary since these boards have descended into a state of rampant stupidity where you're either stupid, perfectly nice (and ignored) or harsh and at least manage to get responses.

EDIT: 8 minutes and not a single post? It's a new record!

 

[brinboy789]

MK isnt destroying the tourney scene...i went to a recent tourney, and there were around 4 MKs, and around 50 people. >_< and about the tourney results, sure MK is first. sure he has his own rank. so what? im pretty sure the top 6 characters combined WILL go wayover MK's tourney results. as i saw in the previous post, marth has NO bad matchups except for MK, who doesnt count. MK is NOT dominating the tourney scene. people arent fleeing torward him. rather, as seen at http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5489519#post5489519 , all the complaining and whining is actually starting to get MK players to change mains because all of the people who whine 48/7 about him.

uhhh ok. back on topic. should MK be banned? NO HE SHOULD NOT

/thread

 

[Frogsterking]

[Yuna] I looked through the rest of your posts on this thread, and I will agree you are good at insulting people in such a manner they look dum if they complain. I still think its unnecessary to debate in such an aggressive manner but meh I'll stop preaching.


And what I said earlier still stands, why is it not an improvement to have everyone flocking to Marth and not Meta Knight? That doesn't balance everything of course but it goes a long way. It makes other characters more playable in tournaments that got destroyed by Meta Knight initially, in addition to Marth not being nearly as overpowered as Meta Knight.

 

[ArcPoint]

Not as of yet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see... though, until when? I sort of liked the idea of a time table of when the final decision of whether or not Metaknight is banned and to see how the Metagame goes from here until a certain date.... though, no one managed to agree on a date...

 

[Frogsterking]

Not as of yet. I guess we'll just have to wait and see... though, until when? I sort of liked the idea of a time table of when the final decision of whether or not Metaknight is banned and to see how the Metagame goes from here until a certain date.... though, no one managed to agree on a date...

Thats because we have not yet agreed on whether or not he should be banned, and probably never will.

 

[ArcPoint]

Thats because we have not yet agreed on whether or not he should be banned, and probably never will.

I think you misunderstood me, a lot of people are going with the wait and watch method to see whether or not MK should be banned, a few players in the earlier pages of this thread proposed a time table to see how the metagame is progressing from here to date X, for example, if it is devolving due to MK, then we'd ban MK, if it's stayed the same or improved, then he stays. But the point is we wait and see until Date X, and then the decision is made.

 

[Yuna]

And what I said earlier still stands, why is it not an improvement to have everyone flocking to Marth and not Meta Knight? That doesn't balance everything of course but it goes a long way. It makes other characters more playable in tournaments that got destroyed by Meta Knight initially, in addition to Marth not being nearly as overpowered as Meta Knight.

Because it's the same thing. It's just that it's easier for other characters to compete than before, but everything that made Meta-Knight such a good choice will still apply for Marth, except Marth won't be as good as Meta-Knight!

Statically and logically speaking, there's no reason to then not choose Marth! And everyone choosing Marth will result in the exact same thing:
* Little variation
* Whining
* More whining
* Whining becomes incessant
* People get enough and debate sparks
* SBR might care
* SBR might ban Marth for totally the wrong reasons
* I'll probably strangle a plushie. Or have sex with Emblem Lord. Either works.

Thats because we have not yet agreed on whether or not he should be banned, and probably never will.

Once he becomes obviously broken in such a way no one else stands a reasonable chance of winning, a lot of people, including I, will defect to the "Ban Meta-Knight now!" bandwagon (given at least reasonable time for this to prove to be true and not just a misconception, like, say, how people thought Snake was the best character in the game for a good, what, 4-5 months? Well, Meta-Knight showed them!).

I think you misunderstood me, a lot of people are going with the wait and watch method to see whether or not MK should be banned, a few players in the earlier pages of this thread proposed a time table to see how the metagame is progressing from here to date X, if it is devolving due to MK, then we'd ban MK, if it's stayed the same or improved, then he stays. But the point is we wait and see until Date X, and then the decision is made.

Just the mere fact that he devolves the metagame is not reason enough. There are plenty of possible reasons for why he's devolving the metagame that does not warrant banning.

It's why he devolves the metagame that matters.

 

[CR4SH]

Yuna, the marth argument is horse**** and you know it. Come off it.

 

[ArcPoint]

Just the mere fact that he devolves the metagame is not reason enough. There are plenty of possible reasons for why he's devolving the metagame that does not warrant banning.

It's why he devolves the metagame that matters.

I was just giving example criteria for a ban, my apologies for not specifying.

 

[brinboy789]

Yuna, the marth argument is horse**** and you know it. Come off it.

dont you love the people who accuse somebody of something and has no evidence whatsoever? fail

 

[Yuna]

Yuna, the marth argument is horse**** and you know it. Come off it.

I'm sorry, please come back once you can prove your point using words, facts and valid arguments.

 

[Frogsterking]

Because it's the same thing. It's just that it's easier for other characters to compete than before, but everything that made Meta-Knight such a good choice will still apply for Marth, except Marth won't be as good as Meta-Knight!

Exactly. Brawl will not be balanced, but it will be more balanced.

 

[Yuna]

Exactly. Brawl will not be balanced, but it will be more balanced.

But is it so much different that Marth won't have to be banned for the same reasons that Meta-Knight "needs to be banned"?

 

[Zankoku]

Marth has clear disadvantageous matchups. He has clear windows of punishability if he should whiff an attack. His recovery is not near limitless nor as unapproachable for edgeguard. His success in tournaments point to consistency of usage yet barely any top placements. Why would Marth be even glanced at for becoming banned?

 

[Yuna]

Marth has clear disadvantageous matchups.

Name them

He has clear windows of punishability if he should whiff an attack.

Or he could spam the ones which do not leave him such clear windows of punishability. Or he could at least stop leaving himself open so much.

His recovery is not near limitless nor as unapproachable for edgeguard.

He doesn't really die that easily, though. Hey, I thought we were playing the "diffferences" game!

His success in tournaments point to consistency of usage yet barely any top placements. Why would Marth be even glanced at for becoming banned?

Because he's pretty much Meta Knight light without having anything in common with him moves-wise and strategy wise? Meta-Knight is not banned, thus many elect to play as him instead of, say, Marth.

Why isn't Marth placing much higher? Because he has a disadvantageous matchup against Meta Knight! And the best of the best generally prefer to play as characters other than Marth, thus leaving very few among the best of the best to take Marth to the heights he deserves to be in.

If Marth is so bad, why does the Tier List and Theorycraft place him so high? Which are these "clear disadvantageous matchups" very few people recognize but you somehow do? I'd like you to actually flesh out your arguments instead of just saying "This is how it is" with very little supporting facts.

 

[Shark Week]

Marth has clear disadvantageous matchups. He has clear windows of punishability if he should whiff an attack. His recovery is not near limitless nor as unapproachable for edgeguard. His success in tournaments point to consistency of usage yet barely any top placements. Why would Marth be even glanced at for becoming banned?

this, seriously.... again.

once again, marth is nowhere close to being as dangerous as metaknight, for lots of reasons. get off it.

 

[Yuna]

this, seriously.... again.

once again, marth is nowhere close to being as dangerous as metaknight, for lots of reasons. get off it.

Did you, you know, read Ankoku's post? Because if you did, is English your 12th language?

 

[Frogsterking]

But is it so much different that Marth won't have to be banned for the same reasons that Meta-Knight "needs to be banned"?

Yes.


Marth is just not as frustrating to play as Meta Knight is. I know this is subjective, but your other point about Marth is that the whining will reach the same level as Meta Knight did. Marth doesn't have moves like Tornado that rack up free damage and many characters can't stopn (I know this is not why he is strong, its just what people see). And the only reason that the Meta Knight ban argument has reached such a level anyway is not because many people are tired of playing Meta Knight, but because there is logic to that argument and high-level players agree. This would not be the same with Marth and I don't think it would gather any momentum.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Where did this marth thing come all of a sudden? He isn't as bad as MK, he can't gimp as greatly, and his recovery isn't as good, he isn't a broken character like MK in those regards, and I've beaten pretty good Marths before, CG makes very short work of them. Dunno where that poped up all of a sudden, could someone quote the post that started it, or explain it for me?

The thing with MK is that, as I can see, he doesn't require any or very very few AT's to be at the same competition level as other characters that require many ATs. All MK needs is spacing and how to gimp, and hes set. Thats the problem that I see, but it doesn't warrent a ban when you look at it like that.

What warrants a ban, is that hes SOO popular that other character Metagames are based around defeating MK more then other characters, which leads away from diversity. Not to mention that Fing Shuttle loop out prioritizes my Gordos... WTF? And now people are realizing that being MK is much easier, takes much less work, and has more reward and wins then their main, they switch to MK, which leads to MK dominating the Metagame. This also leads people who want to fight MK on equal ground to play MK as thats his only neutral match, they see the ease of playing MK, and play as him from then on, destroying the Metagame.

Also with all of this, many people who were in Melee tournies have quit brawl due to MK's dominance, and if there are only a handful of brawlers at tournies instead of the many that were before, thats bad for business on the TO's part, the smash communities part, and Brawl's part. Thats why MK is considering being banned.

Some of that seems out of my ***, but most of it was said earlier in the thread, I'm just not sure how the multiquote function works >.>

 

[Yuna]

Yes.

Marth is just not as frustrating to play as Meta Knight is. I know this is subjective, but your other point about Marth is that the whining will reach the same level as Meta Knight did. Marth doesn't have moves like Tornado that rack up free damage and many characters can't stop. And the only reason that the Meta Knight ban argument has reached such a level anyway is not because many people are tired of playing Meta Knight, but because there is logic to that argument and high-level players agree. This would not be the same with Marth and I don't think it would gather any momentum.

You refuted yourself. Subjective opinion. Also, seriously, the Tornado? "It racks up free damage"? Not many people can stop it? How about you just shield it? And ooooh, he hit you with it! Oooh, you just took a little damage! It's not like he just whacked you over the head with a really fastish and all of a sudden you received 19% of damage (Tippered Fsmash from Marth).

 

[Frogsterking]

I'm just not sure how the multiquote function works >.>

You click on the Multi-Quote option underneath every post you want to quote.