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-The no longer official Toon Link Video Critique Thread- *ignore this thread*

G

grandra

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
21
Looking for help against marth. My roomate at college mains marth, however he uses too many other characters for me to constantly get used to marth, which is by far his best character. the Matches go back and forth most of the time, however the match up is still more in his favor then it is mine. Heres the last three matches we had in a tournament we just had recently at college
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WS31UNvCEXc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XezisVS2KZQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pq9aGmdsfY&feature=related

Thanks for any help. Also one question: what should I do when he planks off the stage with upB? that is what I am trying to figure out, however he is the only person who plays marth near me and so I don't get much chances to practice against it.

Can someone please help we out with this matchup. This is the only character I have a lot of trouble beating, and so any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 
-Tempest-

-Tempest-

Smash Ace
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEy6gfSklUs&feature=channel_page

Here's a friendly between Mr. Doom and myself. This guy is a beast Ike, and a brilliant player. I make a lot of mistakes, and would appreciate critique.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW9ASVmtZpk&feature=channel_page

This one's a friendly between Fragbait and myself. I have trouble fighting his Falco, more than I used to, but I still manage to pull out the win. Critique is encouraged on this one as well.

And, before it comes up, I know I roll a lot... How do I stop that?

Copied from the vid thread.
 
Pho

Pho

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Messages
384
Trypt said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egpNKxmz4R4

The channel is youtube.com/SinOwns

More vids will be uploaded as I film more, one 2v2 will be uploaded later today (soon)
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One of the most obvious things I noticed was you switch styles from projectiles to swordplay. There's no unity on between the two. Landing your big hits is a lo easier if you hit them or distract them with projectiles. Also, I didn't see any zairs. Zairs are important to keep them away and setting up for combos. Last thing I'm going to mention is to use your projectiles while you're in the air. You have to keep moving especially with fast characters like Pikachu.
 
Power of Slash

Power of Slash

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Messages
538
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Antioch, TN
If anybody can I'd like to get this set critiqued. Any non-sensical grabs you see(such as shielding then grabbing the wrong way or far away from my opponent) were meant to be OOS SH Zairs. Other than that, I had wanted to see what would happen had I freestyled my Toon Link's play instead of doing this and that, just go with the flow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHQ2SxvOmTs&feature=channel_page vs. Peach 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTfqXcoAmT0&feature=channel_page vs. Peach 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAWXKoNdgro&feature=channel_page vs. Peach 3
 
demonictoonlink

demonictoonlink

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
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Colorado
K...So far only watched the first video. Is Meno MenoUnderWater, from Colorado?

Overall, you have an at least solid Toon Link. My biggest problem was that you had two different phases of fighting you would switch between: Spamming and Close Combat. This is how Falco plays, not Toon Link. TL is the master character for the combination of the two. The second you get breathing room, Short hop bomb pull bomb draw or something. Your spamming is great and you close combat is pretty good. (This all sounds a lot like what Pho has been saying) The biggest thing to focus is on is using projectiles in combination with fighting
 
Power of Slash

Power of Slash

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Messages
538
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Antioch, TN
It was MenoUnderwater though idk where he's from. Probably same person you're talking about.

I appreciate the criticism DTL, but... I'm also having a bit of trouble really understanding where you're coming from. It's like I see what your saying but I don't get it. If you're referencing the 2nd stock then I'd understand cause I was going in for the kill, but... are you saying use more QD's close range and throw stuff in close range? or... what. Elaborate for me.
 
Pho

Pho

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Joined
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Messages
384
Power of Slash said:
It was MenoUnderwater though idk where he's from. Probably same person you're talking about.

I appreciate the criticism DTL, but... I'm also having a bit of trouble really understanding where you're coming from. It's like I see what your saying but I don't get it. If you're referencing the 2nd stock then I'd understand cause I was going in for the kill, but... are you saying use more QD's close range and throw stuff in close range? or... what. Elaborate for me.
Click to expand...
I think what he means in terms of approaching is that you only use a zair to nair approach, which is a good approach, but the longer the match last, the faster your opponent will catch on. In my opinion, the peach player didn't have a lot of experience fighting Toon Links, because on every Fsmash he/she got hit by, no nair was attempted. Last time I checked, the nair comes out faster, and you have to wait on the second hit of the Fsmash, since Peach pops up higher than other characters. So avoid that for future reference. My only advice is finding some new approaches. Practice zoning, shutting down options that Peach has to approach you.

This is what I noticed in the first video. I'll try to watch the rest when I get home later.
 
Power of Slash

Power of Slash

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Messages
538
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Antioch, TN
Ok, I understand better now.

I actually did only appraoch with Zair O_o, never noticed that. and... I'm... unfamiliar with the term Zoning, so I'll go research that to get a feel of what you're talking about.

Thanks DTL and Pho =o
 
Pho

Pho

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Joined
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Messages
384
Power of Slash said:
Ok, I understand better now.

I actually did only appraoch with Zair O_o, never noticed that. and... I'm... unfamiliar with the term Zoning, so I'll go research that to get a feel of what you're talking about.

Thanks DTL and Pho =o
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Basically the idea with zoning is using what you have to shut down certain approaches or opportunities to land a kill. With Toon Link, using projectiles is a common way to shut down approaches. What I find common with most Toon Link players is they throw their projectiles directly at the opponent. Fine in theory, but this isn't a traditional 2D fighter like Street Fighter. There's a lot of ways people can approach you. I'll leave it up to you to find out ways shut down what approaches.

PM me if you want more details. I'll be glad to help.
 
Sin___

Sin___

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Joined
May 19, 2009
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Arizona
Pho said:
One of the most obvious things I noticed was you switch styles from projectiles to swordplay. There's no unity on between the two. Landing your big hits is a lo easier if you hit them or distract them with projectiles. Also, I didn't see any zairs. Zairs are important to keep them away and setting up for combos. Last thing I'm going to mention is to use your projectiles while you're in the air. You have to keep moving especially with fast characters like Pikachu.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the advice. Trypt and I are both slowly getting better; we've just started playing online and it's REALLY gay. >_>
I've been doing better against Trypt now that he's safe at no distance. :p
 
Pho

Pho

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Messages
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Ashraf23 said:
Critique my TL. I know there are some stuff I can work on. Looking for some nice tips and advice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1QSyh7JPwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03BABpa_CoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1QSyh7JPwc


I appreciate the help!
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I just played you online, so it's only fair I critique you.

The first thing I noticed playing you is your zair. I have problems with it as well, but you always air dodge -> zair. It's ok to do every now and then, but eventually it signals your opponent that a zair is coming. At the beginning of Link's second stock, and the beginning of your match with Marth, the Link blocked it, and the Marth countered with a short hop fair. Although he missed the first time, he got you the second time. You had a hard time trying to keep your distance against Marth, and a good Marth will always keep the pressure on. Other than the zair, just try to mix up your game more.
 
Ashraf23

Ashraf23

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Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
127
Location
Fairfax, VA
Pho said:
I just played you online, so it's only fair I critique you.

The first thing I noticed playing you is your zair. I have problems with it as well, but you always air dodge -> zair. It's ok to do every now and then, but eventually it signals your opponent that a zair is coming. At the beginning of Link's second stock, and the beginning of your match with Marth, the Link blocked it, and the Marth countered with a short hop fair. Although he missed the first time, he got you the second time. You had a hard time trying to keep your distance against Marth, and a good Marth will always keep the pressure on. Other than the zair, just try to mix up your game more.
Click to expand...
Thanks, that sound pretty good. Should i switch it up by not air dodging?
 
Pho

Pho

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Messages
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Ashraf23 said:
Thanks, that sound pretty good. Should i switch it up by not air dodging?
Click to expand...
I think one of the things people forget is that everything doesn't have to hit in order for an attack to have an effect. Psychologically, if people see a zair that's somewhat close to them, they'll block anyways. If you don't air dodge in a short hop, that gives you more options.

Bomb to quick draw
miss-spacing zair
fast falling quick draw
etc etc.

As long as you mix up your options, it keeps your opponents guessing. It's bad enough for Toon Link players already that our only reliable kill move is the up smash. People who have experience against Toon Link expect it, so mixing up our game is more important that with other characters.
 
Ashraf23

Ashraf23

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Joined
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Pho said:
I think one of the things people forget is that everything doesn't have to hit in order for an attack to have an effect. Psychologically, if people see a zair that's somewhat close to them, they'll block anyways. If you don't air dodge in a short hop, that gives you more options.

Bomb to quick draw
miss-spacing zair
fast falling quick draw
etc etc.

As long as you mix up your options, it keeps your opponents guessing. It's bad enough for Toon Link players already that our only reliable kill move is the up smash. People who have experience against Toon Link expect it, so mixing up our game is more important that with other characters.
Click to expand...
OK, I see what you're saying. Thanks for the tips
 
Pho

Pho

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Messages
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Jash said:
Here is my Money match vs Boss

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy2Reu2S44c
Click to expand...
Your projectile play to land big hits is amazing... I've never seen so many combos from projectile set ups...

Santi said:
I'll have some grand final videos up soon for my final critique
:)



edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhbPofQ0QZE

PLeaseeeee helpsiesssss


theres more where this came from
:)
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You fight Snake the same way I do. But you have better spacing, so you don't get hit by tilts as much as I do...

I'm going to watch both these video numerous times in order to give a decent critique, but it feels wrong to critique people who have more experience than I do...
 
Pho

Pho

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Messages
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OniTheWolf said:
Meta Knight destroied me :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MAHAT0rqck&feature=related&fmt=18
Click to expand...
Oh MK...

It's common to have MKs do a down throw, then rush in for a follow up. I usually DI down and/or back and zair as fast as possible to prevent a follow up. I also didn't see a lot of projectile play, which I know is hard because MK is always in your face, giving you little to no room to work. You have to force your opponent to be more cautious, making him double thinking each approach, giving you more time to spam your projectiles. Try to save your up smash till 110%, because hitting a good MK with anything can be hard.
 
NeoCrono

NeoCrono

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Joined
Jul 21, 2008
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Charlotte, NC (where the bobcats play)
OniTheWolf said:
Meta Knight destroied me :(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MAHAT0rqck&feature=related&fmt=18
Click to expand...
Don't dodge so much; when you do an unneeded spot dodge. You leave yourself open. When your playing against a MK you have to minimize your mistakes. In a sense.... you kind of have to play perfectly. I know this was wifi, and the timing can be difficult. you should of SHDA more. Also you need to watch out when you D-smash cause he could of punished you for whiffing one. Also remember that MK can live to high %'s because his u-air comes out in two frames. Also SH zairing can help in this match-up
I'm kinda surprised I only saw one tornado in this match :confused:

Keep in mind that a lot of good MK will chase you off the stage with there D-air
 
Ashraf23

Ashraf23

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Joined
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SugarShiek33 said:
Don't dodge so much; when you do an unneeded spot dodge. You leave yourself open. When your playing against a MK you have to minimize your mistakes. In a sense.... you kind of have to play perfectly. I know this was wifi, and the timing can be difficult. you should of SHDA more. Also you need to watch out when you D-smash cause he could of punished you for whiffing one. Also remember that MK can live to high %'s because his u-air comes out in two frames. Also SH zairing can help in this match-up
I'm kinda surprised I only saw one tornado in this match :confused:

Keep in mind that a lot of good MK will chase you off the stage with there D-air
Click to expand...
That is true. But knowing how good Tls spot dodge is (best in the game) its hard to avoid for a lot of toons
 
Pho

Pho

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Joined
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Messages
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OniTheWolf said:
Some offline matches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpLEMoQLXqs&NR=1&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4d-xVDTSBU&fmt=18
Click to expand...
Your opponent wasn't very good with either character, but I have noticed some improvements from your last video I watched. Maybe it's personal preference, but I didn't see a lot of bombs. I did see a lot of short hops, and it's good that you mixed them up. The spike on Marth was a little unnecessary and it cost you a stock, but it was cool to watch though(And you could have made it back if you didn't go right randomly in the air). Against jigs, just remember in general when to rack on the damage and when to kill. 160% on jigs is way too much.
 
Sosuke

Sosuke

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I need to add some of these recent vids to the video thread. ._.
 
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