The New Tier List

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Luigi has good shield pressure
A floaty character with a high short hop with good shield pressure? What?

The reason why Luigi has a hard time approaching is due to his terrible short hop and his floatiness.

You can explain more, why do you think Luigi sucks?

 

[Battlecow]

SH-dair-uair-upB. That's a shieldbreak, guaranteed if you hit the dair. And he has bad "shield pressure"? Look man, shield pressure doesn't really exist in 64 in the way it does in melee. Luigi doesn't have to "pressure" shields because he can ****ing break them. Falcon doesn't "pressure" shields either- he hits them once and grabs. (a go-to tactic for most characters). Very rarely does any character do "shield pressure" in the sense that fox/falco in melee do.

 

[Surri-Sama]

I actually find my self shield pressuring a lot, as most chars...hmm perhaps i should fix this.

 

[Battlecow]

?

Someone who knows what they're talking about come back me up on this.

 

[Glöwworm]

?

Someone who knows what they're talking about come back me up on this.

Yep .

 

[The Star King]

Battlecow is correct to an extent

It exists for a few characters

 

[WOTG]

What made Ness above Jigglypuff?

 

[felipe_9595]

The only characters that can do a real shield pressure re Ness. Yoshi and mario. Everyone else haves a better thing to do

 

[Battlecow]

Ness and yoshi just break shields. Mario too, most of the time. It's not the same thing.

 

[Glöwworm]

^

What. Then define "shield pressure" for me please

 

[The Star King]

I would say hitting their shield to cut down on their options so they're easier to read. Guaranteed shield breaks don't count because they're, well, guaranteed.

 

[Battlecow]

And weegee breaks shields better than most of the cast anyways, so no matter what definition you use, Koro's post is wrong in every respect.

 

[The Star King]

I wouldn't say Luigi does but w/e irrelevant

 

[Battlecow]

He does. Doug can't break like him, pika can't break like him, DK can't break like him, Jiggs can't break like him, Link can't break like him, Fox at current levels of play that I've seen on video can't break like him. 6/11 >50%. But EVEN IF HE DIDN'T, is that really what makes him inferior?

 

[The Star King]

No, he just can't approach

 

[asianaussie]

shield pressure in this game is just what star king said, limiting their options to a roll or jump derivatives (or dropping the shield, whatever)

this includes leading into grabs, breaking their shield, whatever

 

[ballin4life]

shield pressure isn't about what you do after hitting someone's shield with a fast move like an aerial. no one shields those moves because it's dumb and you can follow up with auto grab/whatever

it's about what you do when you do a laggy move and it gets shielded. you can't always follow up perfectly, so you have to predict the options out of shield that your opponent has

 

[Battlecow]

I like how everyone has all these different ideas about what shield pressure "is" in 64, even though literally no one has ever used that phrase on the 64 boards before in reference to 64.

*sigh*

 

[asianaussie]

you say that like you understand exactly what shield pressure is

shield pressure is what you feel when link holds Z and fox closes in

 

[Battlecow]

Talking to me or ballin?

 

[asianaussie]

to you

i feel ballin's point is valid, but im meh on his idea of that shield pressure is defined by the prediction you have to follow up with

 

[TANK64]

No, he just can't approach

^^this.
Freaking Approach! Approach! Approach!

Of course Luigi has great shield pressure- You just can't get in. Even if you're not set up for the break, say with dair (but you're not gonna get the uair out before you hit the ground), you can cancel into jab>grab. That's a char with a purdy gud shield pressure game, and breaks aren't synonymous with pressure but they're related. Depends if you mean chars that pressure you to throw your shield up, or chars with legitimate breaks/grabs that make you scared to shield. Char with breaks can usually do both... Luigi may be the only exception to the first part, so I see KoRoBeNiKi's point if that's what he's going by- as you could mostly likely not shield 9 out of 10 times, and just upsmash... pressure's gone. But that's why Luigi shouldn't just be spamming sh Dair!

shield pressure is what you feel when link holds Z and fox closes in

best definition EVER...

 

[Battlecow]

you say that like you understand exactly what shield pressure is

shield pressure is what you feel when link holds Z and fox closes in

This doesn't make any sense in the context of what I said. I pretty clearly stated that I didn't understand exactly what shield pressure was held to be in 64. I stand by that, because it's simply not a term we've ever used and it doesn't translate 1:1 from melee.

 

[The Star King]

I use it all the time noob

Samus probably shield pressures the most, because she can't aerial into a grab/break the shield like everyone else can

 

[ciaza]

Is that confirmation that s2j was wrong about samus strong aerial>grab being possible? iirc in his video he said strong nair > grab was possible, you're saying otherwise so now I'm not sure.

 

[The Star King]

I kind of doubt it but even it's true you're not going to be landing those nairs very often

 

[ciaza]

Ehhhhh I like facts.

Need a TASer in here stat.

 

[The Star King]

I agree. That's why that video is bleh - S2J is not a TASer AFAIK.

 

[cheeseball341]

Puff has every reason to shield pressure against characters he cant grab combo/are out of grab combo percent.

The only problem is instead of looking cool like falco's dair doubleshine fade away nair shield pressure, he pre much just ducks behind your shield in hope you roll.

 

[The Star King]

Or when he gets a utilt on shield

Puff shield pressure = spamming utilt and short hop dairing when you think they'll roll (see: Isai vids)

 

[Pachinkosam]

tier lists are helpful

 

[Sephirothxxx]

I'd place ness a little lower, and raise Samus a few spots, but aside from that this tier list is great.

 

[t3h Icy]

and raise Samus a few spots

No. ):<

 

[The Star King]

Why does this thread keep getting bumped

 

[asianaussie]

because people like tier lists

 

[Eclectic Echo]

Kirbs <3

 

[The Star King]

Why does this thread keep getting bumped

 

[Han Solo]

Fox is best. Kirby is worst. Yoshi is Yoshi.

 

[asianaussie]

all unlocked threads with the word 'tier' in them will live on forever

 

[Eclectic Echo]

Kirbys is the best!