The new Roy Strategem discussion

[crush]

ight Crush. I got you

when???????

 

[Pitzer]

Apex most likely, I call Green Roy

 

[darkoblivion12]

If only I could moonwalk :'[.

I like the fact that Roy players all developed their own style of play. Unlike cookie cutter Foxes and Falcos. From what I've seen.

it's hard to be cookie cutter when there's no cutter.

 

[crush]

it's hard to be cookie cutter when there's no cookie

fixed.

roys sword can cut, but we just need a cookie

 

[darkoblivion12]

I don't think roy's sword can cut. part of it doesnt even hurt.

also metaphorical cookie.

 

[NewJerusalem]

We all know Roy's sword is made of foam.

 

[Pitzer]

Plastic and cardboard. You mean.

 

[KingClubber]

Unlike cookie cutter Foxes and Falcos. From what I've seen.

I agree, but i find myself different from other Falco players, since i discovered advance tech's very late, had already developed an style of fighting with Falco. Can't say that some of these new tech's didn't effect some of my play style though.

But with Roy, i'm an totally different player from most Roy's from what i've seen. Most Roy's seem try to copy Marth's swift style of fighting, I on the other hand use an very blunt style.

For example i would never use F-air, U-air, or B-air, since i have replaced all these with flare blade for better knock-back, spacing, and positioning.

 

[crush]

U air is essential at times

 

[KingClubber]

U air is essential at times

At times yes, but i feel Roy is one of the few characters that don't need to rack up damage for the kill. And it's only useful against those who fall faster the you do.

Roy = Lion

Slow but kill fast with very few swipes

Marth = Panther (Melanistic Leopards)

Fast but kills slow with many swipes

 

[crush]

No, u air is useful against pretty much every character. And those were terrible analogies

 

[KingClubber]

No, u air is useful against pretty much every character.

Against mid weights, and light weights like Mario, and JiggyPuff? I don't see it really, but i guess it's just me really since i find Roy's most of Roy's aerial useless.

And those were terrible analogies

And how so?

Lions can kill most animals with 1 or 2 strikes, does Roy not do the same?

 

[crush]

Roy sucks compared to marth, Roy takes a lot of attacks to kill, and you need to be more creative, every aerial has uses.

 

[KingClubber]

Completely different play styles my good sir, the reason why it seems that way is because of the style most Roy players play. They try to much to play like Marth who's aerial attacks are much more effective.

Roy will never be played as graceful as Marth

 

[crush]

No its because you only use like 4 moves when all the others are useful in some situations >_>

 

[KingClubber]

Only use 4 moves?

and as you said, SOME situations. I find them useless to me personally, i not telling others to do what i do, i'm just saying that i find Flare Blade to works best for me. I won't try to build up high damage by juggling someone in the air, i want them off the stage going left, right, or down.

The Knock-back on Roy's F,U, and D-airs is horrible. Like the simple combo i see most Roy's do F-air, to f-smash. F-air doesn't have enough hit-stun to catch the enemy every time since the ending lag of an L-cancel F-air + The starting lag of the F-smash, that's 21 frames between the two.

Flare Blade has better results in my eyes, being much faster, and have more knock-back even as it's weakest charge. Which knocks them into the air again, which can be followed depending on damage % with an N-air, or another Flare Blade.

 

[darkoblivion12]

Plastic and cardboard. You mean.

his sword may be cardboard but his armpit is a ****ing razorblade.

also, the aerials roy has are quite useful in different situations. i was working on my aerial game a lot at KTAR this weekend.

fair very often leads into a flareblade

uair is wonderful for picking people up on the ground. also jiggs weak falling uair->reverse blazer.

dair is a fast punish that pops people into a guaranteed fsmash.

nair does some cool shield pressures but i feel is his least useful aerial

bair is hot.

also all his aerials reset.

this **** does actually have a ton of uses.

 

[Pitzer]

Nair his least useful? I use Nair a lot leeme tell you this that thing racks up damage. Dtilt, FH Nair, vs the people who can't be Dtilt fair, f-smash at low percents

 

[KingClubber]

I agree N-air is Roy's most useful aerial because it has some good knock-back and hit stun on the second hit.

I can understand that U-air, and D-air has some good juggle, and popping options but when compare in usefulness against flare blade its no contest that flare blade is the best option.

But F-air, and B-air should be completely replace by Flare Blade, they have horrible knock back, and hit stun. The only usefulness i ever found out of them were ledge cancel options for two hits of F-air, or B-air.

 

[Sethlon]

Heres a question for you guys; you're playing a marth who knows he can DI up and in and then double jump to get out of down throw -> fsmash. What do you do instead after the down throw?

 

[KingClubber]

Escape - I would try to getting a way from marth because he might be looking for a easy tipper.

Prepare an counter - If Marth is close enough to attack i would take an risk, and try for a counter.

Begin charging Flare Blade - If Marth is high enough into the air but close enough to attack i would prepare an Flare to guard/attack before he could.

Edit

Or chase for another shield grab for another down throw LOL

 

[Pitzer]

Heres a question for you guys; you're playing a marth who knows he can DI up and in and then double jump to get out of down throw -> fsmash. What do you do instead after the down throw?

Back Throw instead. Im pretty good vs marth since that's all I really played when I was competitive in melee. The match up is obv in marth's favor but, we have some gimmicks to winning. Sometimes if you're near the ledge Down throw DED -> -> ^. Some marth don't expect it. Also when fighting marth its more of a waiting game usually i just dash dance around and wait for him to start approaching. I get dtilt's and run away cause we can't usually combo him. But at possibly 30% you can, Dtilt, Sour Spot Uair, Shield any attempt for him to counter attack, grab throw forward and run away.

Getting the marth mad is what you want to do, make him mad so he makes more mistakes. Spacing also is an important role. Sucks when all I've ever faced in my life was 3 Marth's, 2 Falco's, 2 Sheik's, A Samus, A Young Link, A Link, 2 Ganon's, and a Peach all who pretty much solidly **** Roy.

 

[KingClubber]

Back Throw instead.

I think you miss the adjective in the question.....

What do you do instead after the down throw?

 

[Pitzer]

Well I read, what if he knows Im gonna F-smash after Down throw you can use B-throw Instead since they'll be di'ing out right?

Also After the Down Throw Dash in CC an aerials Grab again or DED once Prepare to CC- Fsmash or CC Dtilt.

 

[darkoblivion12]

Heres a question for you guys; you're playing a marth who knows he can DI up and in and then double jump to get out of down throw -> fsmash. What do you do instead after the down throw?

that means he's going to be above you right?
i would probably full jump fair.
first hit of DED might catch him before the double jump.
and the obvious option is watch where he goes and dtilt or regrab.
also chances are if he's DIing in from the dthrow you could regrab fthrow and get his DI all ****ed up and you could land something from that.

 

[KingClubber]

"Running to Dash Attack" vs "Running to DED"

Which is the better opinion to you guy?

Do your research before answering, to me i think "Running to DED" is the better choice having overall better frame work then dash attack by having sooner hit-boxes, and less end frames. But I think Dash attack has farther reach, and it has best hit-stun.

 

[crush]

Dash attack seems better for me most of thetime.

 

[darkoblivion12]

"Running to Dash Attack" vs "Running to DED"

Which is the better opinion to you guy?

Do your research before answering, to me i think "Running to DED" is the better choice having overall better frame work then dash attack by having sooner hit-boxes, and less end frames. But I think Dash attack has farther reach, and it has best hit-stun.

Running->DED

however more often than not, it's either running->dtilt or just walking around.

 

[KingClubber]

was going for that next

Dash Cancel to F-Smash vs Dash Cancel to D-Tilt?

To me this is a Tie, because i can find uses for both options, but if i had to choose i would say D-tilt.

 

[Sethlon]

I don't trust dash attack, personally...there doesn't seem to be any hitboxes for the non-sweetspot part. I've had times where the blade goes right through someone and nothing happens

 

[camerino1]

Personally, D-Tilt seems nicer to me. Less ending lag if they shield it and it sets up the F-Smash.

I was messing around with my aerials recently and I figured out against Fox and Falco that if they are near the edge and you D-Tilt near 100%, you can do this all in the air and they can't survive while you do: D-Tilt pops up > F-Air keeps them stunned > Jump to stay up > DED 1+2 forward > Blazer towards the edge and you should JUST grab the edge if you do it right. It pushes Falco to the point of no return and it edge hogs Fox very easily.

Edit: I noticed that too Sethlon, it is a weird attack. I was talking to someone last night and he brought you up actually . He told me you tested out the Brawl+ Roy on him and that his U-Air spiked him down, and that the entire thing was glitchy and broken.

Edit2: I was playing some of my friends and 2 of them are good Falcos. The only option I really had against them was DED > > V V. It killed their shield. Do you guys have better options for dealing with Falco?

 

[darkoblivion12]

I don't trust dash attack, personally...there doesn't seem to be any hitboxes for the non-sweetspot part. I've had times where the blade goes right through someone and nothing happens

it would be really nice if we had a completed hitbox thread cuz i could show you that.

the whole tip of the sword on the dash attack has no hitbox. the tippered dash attack is actually inside the sword and the sweetspot is his armpit (what's new?).

@camerino
fighting falco is a lot of guesswork on how they're going to approach you. i use nair and fair and >^> DED a lot in the matchup to counter the approaches. once you counter the approach, you're in control and you should get a pretty easy kill.

 

[Pitzer]

Running CCing to F-smash the best LOL

 

[camerino1]

Well on the complete hitbox thread, why not make one? ALSO!! I made a new moveset for Roy because I was bored, and I wanted to know if you guys wanted to see it...

About the Falco thing, what I do is I wait for him to come to me and shield his laser just before he comes into my zone and normally what I do then is start up my DED. He shields my second one, but then I use V V on him and shield poke. That is basically how it goes, I take a few bullets that way, but it usually ends up in me giving the first few good hits.

 

[KingClubber]

I would like to see, vs falco eh?

Falco off stage = Free stock

 

[Sethlon]

Powershielding lasers is a must.

Has anyone messed with priming DED out of shield vs falco? Seems like the matchup where the trick would be most useful, since the dumb bird puts you into shield so often.

EDIT: Haha, Camerino, you must be talking about GHNeko. The build they had was fun, too bad nothing came of it.

 

[darkoblivion12]

Powershielding lasers is a must.

Has anyone messed with priming DED out of shield vs falco? Seems like the matchup where the trick would be most useful, since the dumb bird puts you into shield so often.

EDIT: Haha, Camerino, you must be talking about GHNeko. The build they had was fun, too bad nothing came of it.

Next time i play i'll work on it. roy vs falco is really hard for me.

also, just a thought on the matchup:
rising uair out of shield will always hit if they're shield pressuring.

 

[crush]

its all about the spacing with roy

 

[camerino1]

Well here is the Roy I made up, if you guys have any add-ons you would like, just say and I'll edit them in.

http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=6495. It's the "We want Roy back" group, if you can't read it because the guy who made it put "members only", I'm sure you guys are all alright with joining .

 

[crush]

smash 4 is gonna be brawl 2 so i dont really care